Demon Hunter E-DPS -- Blizzard Take Action --

  • #42
    Quote from Misdeed

    I'm not very familiar with DHs but wouldn't a skill build around prep punishment, night stalker, and cluster arrow allow for very high e-dps if thats all you'd be looking for.


    Thats like 3 extra cluster arrow, but you lose 25 dicipline, you know the ressource they use to even stay alive. Thats the problem you are asking them to die, in order to do same damage as everyone else? I dont think it would actually even do the same damage as everyone else, its 3 cluster arrow per use the prep punishment for 25 dicipline. Youd never regen 25 dicipline back quickly enough even with 100% crit to keep using cluster arrow. Let alone keep gloom up to not die?

    Using punishement every 3 second 25 dicipline (being very conservative here, you can most likelly fire much faster)
    Using Shadow power every 6 sec. 14 dicipline

    Youd need to be able to regen a little over 10 dicipline per second, not happening anytime soon. Only way it could possibly work is if night stalker did not have a "chance" to proc on crit and just proc on crit period. Right now its 15% chance to work on your 50-60% chance of crit. It most likelly work on ceoficient like everything else so its actually much lower then 15% for most spells, especially anything that cleaves or aoe.
  • #43
    Quote from Starburst

    Quote from Misdeed

    I'm not very familiar with DHs but wouldn't a skill build around prep punishment, night stalker, and cluster arrow allow for very high e-dps if thats all you'd be looking for.


    Thats like 3 extra cluster arrow, but you lose 25 dicipline, you know the ressource they use to even stay alive. Thats the problem you are asking them to die, in order to do same damage as everyone else? I dont think it would actually even do the same damage as everyone else, its 3 cluster arrow per use the prep punishment for 25 dicipline. Youd never regen 25 dicipline back quickly enough even with 100% crit to keep using cluster arrow. Let alone keep gloom up to not die?

    Using punishement every 3 second 25 dicipline (being very conservative here, you can most likelly fire much faster)
    Using Shadow power every 6 sec. 14 dicipline

    Youd need to be able to regen a little over 10 dicipline per second, not happening anytime soon. Only way it could possibly work is if night stalker did not have a "chance" to proc on crit and just proc on crit period. Right now its 15% chance to work on your 50-60% chance of crit. It most likelly work on ceoficient like everything else so its actually much lower then 15% for most spells, especially anything that cleaves or aoe.


    True
  • #44
    we need a skill rune on one of our hatred generators which would give us extra hatred on crit (like monks do have +15 spirit on crit)
  • #45
    "we need a skill rune on one of our hatred generators which would give us extra hatred on crit "
    Grenades creates a lot of hate and disci, it has a rune to create more and theres a passive for it to create even more.
    The Problem is that the hatred spenders dont do enough dmg.

    Anybody who was, like me, on the ptr and experienced a changed tooltip for rapid fire but still 10hatred while channeling?
  • #46
    are u serious ?
    you can spend your hatred in like 1.5 ses (3 Cl. arrrows) - then with like 10hatred / s regen (which is a lot and requires good gear + stupid bat) + 6 hatred from grenades (2+ from passive) with 2Attacks/s, how long does it take to get to the 150hatred?????

    let's see 10h from passive + 16hfrom attacking (with a lousy primary which takes forever to explode) = 26h/s (5.76 , but hey lets round it to 5 ) conclusion when you burst out your CA, you need to stand and shoot for 5 seconds just to get your hatred back , yea GOOD regen :)

    I agree, it needs a dmg buff, but it also needs hatred reduction cost (or more hatred regen as i said before)
  • #47
    Im still thinking in a way to use steady aim on the high mp's.
  • #48
    I dunno, i think tactical advantage, night stalker and archery make a nice combination for mp up to 5 and for higher mp facetanking is a lot more reliable.
    While facetanking cull the weak works nicely too, he is using it: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Impreza-2701/hero/18930023
    Caltrops and cull the weak is one of the few nice synergies a dh has:)

    I like the build but i dont want to live without vault^^
  • #49
    Blizzard has no idea what they are doing

    http://www.diablofans.com/

    these changes are a Joke and they have no idea how badly they just buffed barbs for PvP with that inspiring presence change...

    With that change and how OP barbs currently are in PvP just gives light to how CLUELESS blizzard is about their game and community.

    Also, the class that can stack WAY more hp gets a higher % buff to their regen from a passive than the class with a lower HP pool?

    Really blizzard? really?

    -- This patch might just make me quit and I've been playing consistently since Launch --

    Also did blizzard sit down and brainstorm "how can we buff mercs" and came up with that waste of text buff on Templar Life Regen??? LOL blizz just LOL
  • #50
    This is worrying, because DH already had the most difficult time killing Barbs in PvP. With barb passive life regen doubled, eDPS (especially ranged abilities) needs to go up an incredible amount to compensate.

    So now there's major eDPS issues in both PvE AND PvP.
    Too casual to upload anything new these days.
  • #51
    That was my first thought when I saw the patch notes. Barbs are already nearly unkillable with their crazy regen, now they will be immortal.

    Devs prob felt barbs being vulnerable during those few ignore pain cd seconds and forced to sprint away like a little girl didn't have a barb feel to it. Barb PvP is now balanced with PvE, they will just roflstomp everything in range in both PvP and PvE. Working as intended.
  • #52
    That change is pretty funny for pvp. I was already pretty much invincible in my 200k HP set and the 2%. Though its pretty much impossible to kill anything but DH and wizard with it because my damage is only 140k. Now im just gona be able to drop all my life regen and survive only on the 4% passive, 8000 life per second, yes plz.

    You guys got to remember though Brawling is pretty much pointless and crap at this point. We already know what will be pvp, if it is ever released. Its going to be some form of DOTA. In such a game balance is alot less obivious. Mabye you cant solo kill a 200hp barb, but mabye you can push and farm a lane quicker then he will. You can solo some mobs quicker, gain more rewards, etc, depends on how it will all work. Its pretty clear that it wont be kill the enemy hero with no objectives, they scrapped it because of exactly what you see in brawling.

    Was it a necessary change, no. Got to remember its a team buff that stacks with your own 2% passive though. 6% life per sec for you if you get barb on your team. Does it matter not really at this point in time.

    Id say at this point they only care about pve. DH with sentry and passive also gets the 4%. Team up with a barb and you have 8%! Thats starting to be alot of regen.
  • #53
    Quote from Starburst

    That change is pretty funny for pvp. I was already pretty much invincible in my 200k HP set and the 2%. Though its pretty much impossible to kill anything but DH and wizard with it because my damage is only 140k. Now im just gona be able to drop all my life regen and survive only on the 4% passive, 8000 life per second, yes plz.

    You guys got to remember though Brawling is pretty much pointless and crap at this point. We already know what will be pvp, if it is ever released. Its going to be some form of DOTA. In such a game balance is alot less obivious. Mabye you cant solo kill a 200hp barb, but mabye you can push and farm a lane quicker then he will. You can solo some mobs quicker, gain more rewards, etc, depends on how it will all work. Its pretty clear that it wont be kill the enemy hero with no objectives, they scrapped it because of exactly what you see in brawling.

    Was it a necessary change, no. Got to remember its a team buff that stacks with your own 2% passive though. 6% life per sec for you if you get barb on your team. Does it matter not really at this point in time.

    Id say at this point they only care about pve. DH with sentry and passive also gets the 4%. Team up with a barb and you have 8%! Thats starting to be alot of regen.


    What do you think will happen when a 200k unkillable barb with 140k dps suddenly becomes a 120k unkillable barb with 200k+ dps? All it takes is enough crit to ensure rend crits and nothing will survive.

    As for the regen buffs overall... Regen only really benefits PvP and HC defensive builds. The damage you take in game is much too spiky for even 10k hp/s to be meaningful.

    In current game context this was a flat out PvP barbarian buff. And I honestly don't see why barbs even needed it. Maybe a barb got killed by another barb and cried buff - and we all know the devs have a a red light and siren that turns on the second a barb calls for a buff. Just like how DHs have a warning sound like a toilet flush everytime they try to show devs why they urgently need buffs to be efficient at the single thing this game is efficient... Farming.
  • #54
    Hello,

    I don't understand you guys. I have main DH and I have no problem with MP10, it is fun and need concentration. MP8 is just walk in the park as I can facerolling everything. You just need to choose right build and get 500AR, 60kHP and 200k dmg. I can get aways more HP back than the dmg received. I can faceroll Azmudan@MP10 and I can faceroll Seigebreacker@MP10 and the only one I can't kill is Butcher@MP10 only because he enrage before I can kill him. I am cheap DH I have never used Real Money AH and basically this is what I can afford with play.
  • #55
    Quote from NeonodeII

    Hello,

    I don't understand you guys. I have main DH and I have no problem with MP10, it is fun and need concentration. MP8 is just walk in the park as I can facerolling everything. You just need to choose right build and get 500AR, 60kHP and 200k dmg. I can get aways more HP back than the dmg received. I can faceroll Azmudan@MP10 and I can faceroll Seigebreacker@MP10 and the only one I can't kill is Butcher@MP10 only because he enrage before I can kill him. I am cheap DH I have never used Real Money AH and basically this is what I can afford with play.


    What's your experience playing other classes? Have you ever taken your gear and just swapped it over to a monk and farm? Have you ever played a barb or a CM wiz? Can you really tell me that DH farming at mid to high MPs has anything on a barb or monk in terms of exp and loot per hour?

    While it is true that the rapid fire buff last patch did help greatly at higher MPs, every other skill except traps still hits like a wet noodle.
  • #56
    My feeling is that, aside from having so few hard-hitting skills, the real problem of the DH is that we regenerate Hatred *only* via spamming hatred generating abilities. This seems unfair when you consider the way Barbs constantly generate Fury with their tornadoes. The barbarian has this perfect feedback loop thanks to Battle Rage (Into the Fray):

    Use Sprint(Run Like Wind) > Tornado crits generate lots of Fury > Fury is used for more Sprints and WWs

    Similarly, a well-geared Wizard lowers his cooldowns and regains Arcane Power when he crits (Critical Mass passive + gear), allowing him to chain-CC (Blizzard tried to nerf it, still works fine), spam Energy Twisters, and frequently enter a mode in which he no longer needs *any resource whatsoever* to fuel his DPS.

    What do we get when we crit? A chance to regenerate some Discipline.

    That's nice and all, and I really like how Nightstalker allows us to keep up SP/Gloom 90% of the time even without 4piece Nat, but it's still totally lame from a pure DPS perspective.

    Short version:

    - Barbs and Wizards do damage, it gives them resources to do more damage.
    - Demonhunters do damage, it gives them a resources to fuel their defensive abilities, but nothing to help them do more damage.

    The only counter-argument to this is the fact that Preparation/Punishment allows us to convert Disc into Hatred. As others have noted, this would be a viable argument only if we didn't more or less *require* perma-gloom to stay alive on high MPs.

    My suggestion for possible solutions:

    1) Lower the Disc cost of Shadow Power or increase our natural Disc regen, allowing us to actually use Preparation/Punishment.
    2) Give the Nightstalker passive a chance to regen Hatred as well.
    3) Anything else that would increase Hatred regen based on the damage or crits we do would work just as well.

    EDIT: Oh, I see now that someone else has noted this, as well, and this has been retorted with the fact that grenades (and Bolas as well, I think) already generate lots of Hatred. Although I agree, I still think it's silly we should be locked into spamming a specific primary (regardless of how awesome it is) just because we want to generate Hatred, while Barbs and Wizards get to pretty much *spam* their secondaries / other high DPS skills. The situation Bokkkie described with Cluster Arrow is exactly what I am talking about: you use one or two big Hatred spenders, you have to spam primaries for 5 seconds until you can do it again. It's just how it used to be in the early days for Wizards and Barbs, too. This should either be the case for every class, or it should not be the case for any class.
  • #57
    Quote from Nevi

    My feeling is that, aside from having so few hard-hitting skills, the real problem of the DH is that we regenerate Hatred *only* via spamming hatred generating abilities. This seems unfair when you consider the way Barbs constantly generate Fury with their tornadoes. The barbarian has this perfect feedback loop thanks to Battle Rage (Into the Fray):

    Use Sprint(Run Like Wind) > Tornado crits generate lots of Fury > Fury is used for more Sprints and WWs

    Similarly, a well-geared Wizard lowers his cooldowns and regains Arcane Power when he crits (Critical Mass passive + gear), allowing him to chain-CC (Blizzard tried to nerf it, still works fine), spam Energy Twisters, and frequently enter a mode in which he no longer needs *any resource whatsoever* to fuel his DPS.

    What do we get when we crit? A chance to regenerate some Discipline.

    That's nice and all, and I really like how Nightstalker allows us to keep up SP/Gloom 90% of the time even without 4piece Nat, but it's still totally lame from a pure DPS perspective.

    Short version:

    - Barbs and Wizards do damage, it gives them resources to do more damage.
    - Demonhunters do damage, it gives them a resources to fuel their defensive abilities, but nothing to help them do more damage.

    The only counter-argument to this is the fact that Preparation/Punishment allows us to convert Disc into Hatred. As others have noted, this would be a viable argument only if we didn't more or less *require* perma-gloom to stay alive on high MPs.

    My suggestion for possible solutions:

    1) Lower the Disc cost of Shadow Power or increase our natural Disc regen, allowing us to actually use Preparation/Punishment.
    2) Give the Nightstalker passive a chance to regen Hatred as well.
    3) Anything else that would increase Hatred regen based on the damage or crits we do would work just as well.

    EDIT: Oh, I see now that someone else has noted this, as well, and this has been retorted with the fact that grenades (and Bolas as well, I think) already generate lots of Hatred. Although I agree, I still think it's silly we should be locked into spamming a specific primary (regardless of how awesome it is) just because we want to generate Hatred, while Barbs and Wizards get to pretty much *spam* their secondaries / other high DPS skills. The situation Bokkkie described with Cluster Arrow is exactly what I am talking about: you use one or two big Hatred spenders, you have to spam primaries for 5 seconds until you can do it again. It's just how it used to be in the early days for Wizards and Barbs, too. This should either be the case for every class, or it should not be the case for any class.

    Exactly, 100% agreed.
  • #58
    Quote from Nevi

    My feeling is that, aside from having so few hard-hitting skills, the real problem of the DH is that we regenerate Hatred *only* via spamming hatred generating abilities. .....

    ....... I still think it's silly we should be locked into spamming a specific primary (regardless of how awesome it is) just because we want to generate Hatred, while Barbs and Wizards get to pretty much *spam* their secondaries / other high DPS skills. The situation Bokkkie described with Cluster Arrow is exactly what I am talking about: you use one or two big Hatred spenders, you have to spam primaries for 5 seconds until you can do it again. It's just how it used to be in the early days for Wizards and Barbs, too. This should either be the case for every class, or it should not be the case for any class.


    Very well put , and consider this, DH is the only class who need to manage 2 resource, there is a gross mismatch of resource regen rate there. All the other class use the same resource for defensive, escape and offensive and we had to keep jugging the 2 and worse not only is one regen slow and misery, the other would not regen the rate as others. In short the DH class badly need total rehash of the skill and its associated effect. Also its ridiculous to lock the DH class into several skill. The whole principle is that one should be able to tailor combo of the skills and anyone should deliver that possibility. Not just a few.

    In fact, taken to this, DH do not have any defensive skill, DH had only escape skill or somewhat ( survive ) skill but those are no replacement to real defensive skill. And right now DH class also are badly undergunned for their damage done ... this need badly a quick fix
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes