Is there a point in the DH class anymore?

  • #1
    Ever since Blizzard deemed DHs were too OP after launch cause they were doing stuff like farming Act 4 and ponies while still in blues the class has received nothing but nerf after nerf. Even before the build diversity patch DHs were coming out with cool builds that were different from the norm like gas grenades and trap tank specs that worked similar to WW/CM wiz and they stayed alive by stacking LoH. Then Blizz nerfed all DH proc coefficients making those tank specs worthless. I have the achivment for getting every class to 60 twice but my DH just has never made it past 40 because when I compare them to other classes I just dont see a single thing they are better at. I really want to play one but I feel I will have to spend far more gold gearing one out just to be abel to do what other classes can do with a lot less.


    Monks are now hands down the fastest low MP speed farmers using TR and da Bell to 1 shot elites. Doesnt take much gold to get started either. Also TR can be used very efficiently when combined with Bell even on higher MPs like 5/6 just because the Bell is silly damage. Id like to see a Strafe DH do MP 5 or 6, which I assumed was their speed farming build. Oh forgot to mention that 30% built damage reduction, an AoE blind, and a 4 second invuln bubble.

    Wiz are a far better ranged class and dont even need that much gear. I only spent 150 mil on my CM/WW wiz and I leveled straight through Inferno on MP7 and it was a joke. 2.54 APS, 50% crit chance, 600-700 resists, and 1400 LoH meant I couldnt die. Sure I died a few times if I get silly affixes like Arcane, Vortex, Molten and couldnt get away cause teleport was on CD. But that was the only rason I did, because teleport was on CD. I d like to see a DH spend only 150 mil and faceroll MP7 from AcI through Diablo while only dying a handful of times. Also Archon is probably as expensive to gear out as a very good DH but has a ton more survivablity because of the boost to all resists and armor via one of your armor buffs as well as Archon itself.

    Even WDs can speed farm faster than DHs. WDs can stack 3 movement increase abilities in Jaunt, Chicken, and Stalker. They also have a massive damage ability in Bears that makes great use of LS and Acid Cloud makes great use of LoH. Also their 4 piece set bonus combined with 20+ pick up radius and Gruesome feast means unlimited mana and makes Legacy Nats look like a pile of brimestones.

    Barbs...Dont even really have to go there. WW and HoTA blow away every single DH build and again cheaper to gear out but can still do high MPs. Also like monks 30% damage reduction. Oh yea that and their IK set has all kinds of further damage reduction. Oh and if they want they can ignore LS on weapons since they get 6% from IK belt and a passive so they can ignore overpriced LS weapons and get ones with much high damage. Or they can just stack up to 12% LS if super rich and never die.

    So what exactly do Demon Hunters have that other classes dont? Who can they outperform without having to spend a billion gold on gear? Like I said in my opening paragraph I have really enjoyed leveling my DH but I just see no point in getting on to 60 and spending a lot of gold gearing her out when every other class is better.
  • #2
    exactly my opinion
    sitting on 320k DH and its just boring to play it.. so many things to take care into account what i NEVER ever do on my barb or wiz..
    i made wiz like a week back, i spend even shitload less on him.. got archon gear with 300k + dps and i wank around with LS on elites in face while melting them so damn fast.. not to mention funny trash raping .. and CM.. god, even more retarded.. meteor spam while freezing .. got like 140k dps in that gear but it feels like 300 on that DH but as u said > u cant die!
    and barb.. hota + rend + insanity = rofl
    i feel the pain u described.. DH is and always will be my main char.. yet he is only lvl 38 while i had fun on barb and he's 72 now... and with such an ease.. wiz is 20 now in a week or some..
    i rarely go on DH tho he does reward in 1 thing: challenge ! thats something we miss on other classes... simple as that..
  • #3
    Quote from cyberhrc

    i made wiz like a week back, i spend even shitload less on him.. got archon gear with 300k + dps and i wank around with LS on elites in face while melting them so damn fast.. not to mention funny trash raping .. and CM.. god, even more retarded.. meteor spam while freezing .. got like 140k dps in that gear but it feels like 300 on that DH but as u said > u cant die!


    Yea with CM/WW I was farming MP10 crypt of the ancients the same day I hit 60 and got to paragon 10 the first night. It was just a joke and I only had 115k DPS. With teleport wormhole I just kited the elite around till all the trash was dead then lead him down the ramp to the bottom half, killed the trash down there, and ported back to the top and gated out. Never came close to dying with 1400 LoH. Was clearing that place in around 1:30 with only 150 mil in gear. I looked at some of the DHs doing that place in a post on the official forums and they have like 1400 DPS dual socket Manticores that with the gems probably cost as much as 7-8 pieces of my gear.

    But that crap hurt my fingers and wrist so making a TR/Bell monk now.
  • #4
    My main is also demon hunter, I use a strafe build for farming but out of all the classes they farm the slowest.
    DHs also take the most skill of all the classes to use in comparison, not because they are more specialized but because they are so damn gimp at the moment. Also i'm part of the very few who can farm MP10 without Gloom. I hate that skill because every DH uses it almost without exception but its not their fault that it is the only skill that can give them survivability on the same level as other classes.
  • #5
    Quote from cyberhrc

    exactly my opinion
    sitting on 320k DH and its just boring to play it.. so many things to take care into account what i NEVER ever do on my barb or wiz..


    So.... DH is boring because you actually have to use your brain a bit?

    I am playing a hardcore DH atm, and so far it takes the most "skill" to survive out of the classes i have played in hardcore, you have to be focused (which i enjoy).
  • #6
    Quote from lilia27

    Quote from cyberhrc

    i made wiz like a week back, i spend even shitload less on him.. got archon gear with 300k + dps and i wank around with LS on elites in face while melting them so damn fast.. not to mention funny trash raping .. and CM.. god, even more retarded.. meteor spam while freezing .. got like 140k dps in that gear but it feels like 300 on that DH but as u said > u cant die!


    Yea with CM/WW I was farming MP10 crypt of the ancients the same day I hit 60 and got to paragon 10 the first night. It was just a joke and I only had 115k DPS. With teleport wormhole I just kited the elite around till all the trash was dead then lead him down the ramp to the bottom half, killed the trash down there, and ported back to the top and gated out. Never came close to dying with 1400 LoH. Was clearing that place in around 1:30 with only 150 mil in gear. I looked at some of the DHs doing that place in a post on the official forums and they have like 1400 DPS dual socket Manticores that with the gems probably cost as much as 7-8 pieces of my gear.

    But that crap hurt my fingers and wrist so making a TR/Bell monk now.

    if u have some decent mouse u can make macro sequence [ like press 123123213 ] .. i know roccat, logitech and rat mouse have nice drivers [ had em all ] so that will make ur life easier and :)
  • #7
    Quote from lilia27

    Monks are now hands down the fastest low MP speed farmers using TR and da Bell to 1 shot elites. Doesnt take much gold to get started either. Also TR can be used very efficiently when combined with Bell even on higher MPs like 5/6 just because the Bell is silly damage. Id like to see a Strafe DH do MP 5 or 6, which I assumed was their speed farming build. Oh forgot to mention that 30% built damage reduction, an AoE blind, and a 4 second invuln bubble.



    DH is still the fastest LOW MP farming class. It was before, and still is, simply because of superior mobility.

    The issue with DH is that the abilities scale poorly, which means by the time you get to around MP2 even in good gear, your efficiency basically falls behind AND gets further behind as MP goes higher.
    Too casual to upload anything new these days.
  • #8
    Quote from TianZi

    DH is still the fastest LOW MP farming class. It was before, and still is, simply because of superior mobility.

    How? The highest mobility you gain is vault + reduced cost rune and tactical advantage, right? I do runs with a friend regularly, and my Monk with TR and FF still outruns him with TA active (both 24% item ms, of course), the vaulting itself makes him keep up, but he still has to stop to kill trash, i just run by.
  • #9
    DH low mp farming works fine. Strafe+vault+tactical advantage+vengeance(or nightstalker) ensures you blow through MP0-2.

    MP3 is where it gets tricky though. I'm sitting on 195k tooltip dps on my strafe build, wich ignores the extra 15% strafe crit, the 28% elite dmg from my soj and the 15% dmg from cull the weak(using cold soj) and yet any attempt at doing MP3 results in taking WAY too long to kill mobs -> experience and loot loss.

    But it gets worse. Let's say I want to farm high MPs for keys. I've got 250kish tooltip dps(ignoring similar factors to before) in full dps specc and yet I don't even bother going over mp8 because it just takes so damn much beyond that point. Sure, if I kite properly I never die. but the same can be said about the mobs. If I party up, it gets even worse, with mobs having so much HP there's nothing else I can do other than kitting away trying to get that 1 mob that won't die off me while I kill it, during wich time my friend probably killed 10 of those same mobs.

    And the worse part is ubers. The only try I did at soloing ubers was early when they were released was at soloing MP5. Back then I was partying up for easy MP7 ubers but MP5 was such a draining and time consuming experience(lol @ rakanoth+ghom vs DH.) I never EVER tried it again. Just today I did MP10 ubers and while I was busy nuking adds wich kept popping up before I managed to kill the previous, my friend took care of both ghom and rakanoth.

    No, I don't suck. No my gear doesn't suck. I've got over 1k played hours on my DH main. I'm a lv 76 paragon simply because farming mp 2 again and again just makes me want to shoot myself.

    Funny thing is, I take my DH's gear, pass it over to my monk wich is wielding a crap int skorn and easily farm high MPs for keys. OR farm MP5 at the same speed I farm MP3 on my DH. Yeah.

    I hate to be that guy, but DHs need serious buffing. Damage wise. Survivability is fine if you gear for it(wich is silly expensive as a DH but works). If we had a skill like HotA, bells or zombie bears - a massive aoe nuke, we'd be fine as well. The way we are now I just find myself wishing I had the old nether tentacles back.
  • #10
    Quote from K√ľken

    Quote from TianZi

    DH is still the fastest LOW MP farming class. It was before, and still is, simply because of superior mobility.

    How? The highest mobility you gain is vault + reduced cost rune and tactical advantage, right? I do runs with a friend regularly, and my Monk with TR and FF still outruns him with TA active (both 24% item ms, of course), the vaulting itself makes him keep up, but he still has to stop to kill trash, i just run by.


    Well, if he uses strafe, he doesn't need to stop to kill mobs. Like here, I was doing Alkaizer run in just a bit over 5 minutes, and gear isn;t exactly cutting edge stuff at that time:


    I'm wearing a legacy set, which lets me use ToC. Without legacy dps would be significantly higher, and I wouldn't even need ToC, which more or less balances out on MP0 exp/hour. The thing with non-legacy DH is that they lose speed in most groups, because the need to crit the mobs to regain disc (nightstalker passive). So if someone else kills too many of the mobs, they could end up running out of disc to constantly vault.

    Even then i find it incredibly difficult to see a monk actually outrunning a DH on MP0. Monks shouldn't be out-running DH until like MP2-3+
    Too casual to upload anything new these days.
  • #11
    They should really boost the DH somehow. But still it's a very good class in PvP
  • #12
    Id love to see some changes to strafe, rapid fire etc.. Just so i can avoid running the same trap spec all the time...
  • #13
    As a monk i dont want to hear anything about silly expensive Demon hunter gear, cause Monk gear is twice as expensive.
  • #14
    Quote from StoneTheRock

    I hate to be that guy, but DHs need serious buffing. Damage wise. Survivability is fine if you gear for it(wich is silly expensive as a DH but works). If we had a skill like HotA, bells or zombie bears - a massive aoe nuke, we'd be fine as well. The way we are now I just find myself wishing I had the old nether tentacles back.

    DH's have a skill like hota/bells or zombie bears, it's called Cluster arrow. Just costs so damn much to cast :) Anyway, before 1.0.7 i played the traditional hungering arrow, elemental arrow spec. After 1.0.7 hit, i decided it was time for something new. So i tried out the strafe build, modified it a bit to my liking, and now im having a blast, enjoy playing with other people more, playing on mp 3-5, and doing ubers +mp7, since i can survive virtually anything due to the LS from Shadowpower snapshotting when strafing. So to me, its just a rescource management build wich makes my life as DH easier. Although strafe build doesn't do as much dps as the hungering/lightning ball/sentry, i still like to play it more cause it's very rare i die strafing compared to standing still and tanking.
    Basically i like my DH, and dont really think it needs much buffing.

    This is just my 2cents from what i've experienced, and doesn't have to be the same as yours ;)

    Also, i wouldn't mind getting buffed, it's hard to argue against it ;) , i mean who wouldn't like their main class to get better without getting new gear :)
    Regards DreamWalker

    Donnie: Why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit?
    Frank: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
  • #15
    Quote from Nuvian

    Quote from cyberhrc

    exactly my opinion
    sitting on 320k DH and its just boring to play it.. so many things to take care into account what i NEVER ever do on my barb or wiz..


    So.... DH is boring because you actually have to use your brain a bit?

    I am playing a hardcore DH atm, and so far it takes the most "skill" to survive out of the classes i have played in hardcore, you have to be focused (which i enjoy).


    there's a difference between boring and playing it when im damn tired :D
    in any game i always pick a class that need managment [warlock in wow for instance, was demo lock for last 7 years while ppl hated it and i was damn good at it ^^ ]
    my point is that sometimes i wanna relax and click mouse and melt stuff... with my barb and wiz i can do that with much worse gear than i use on my DH and thats what i miss a bit.. and i talk about same MP not lowering it to do that...

    dont get me wrong, i love DH, its my main chick on screen but we might need a buff.. maybe not in dmg but in resource changes... as someone mentioned in this post already, cluster is our 'bears' and 'hota' but it just cost 2 much... lowering it on 30 or 25 hatred might fix a lot for dh gameplay... it would feel like good DPS class to have in party .. as i said, having 350~k dps on my DH in my eyes is like 150k CM wiz ... kinda strange feeling, maybe subjective but thats the point anyway

    beside that i would like a bit more dodge from dexterity.. ;)
  • #16
    Quote from DreamWalker

    Quote from StoneTheRock

    I hate to be that guy, but DHs need serious buffing. Damage wise. Survivability is fine if you gear for it(wich is silly expensive as a DH but works). If we had a skill like HotA, bells or zombie bears - a massive aoe nuke, we'd be fine as well. The way we are now I just find myself wishing I had the old nether tentacles back.

    DH's have a skill like hota/bells or zombie bears, it's called Cluster arrow. Just costs so damn much to cast :)


    I should have said a spammable aoe nuke. I can spam HotA on my barb, bells on my monk and bears on my WD. I can cast Cluster arrow 3x in a row on my DH, if geared for reduction. How is that comparable?

    And ye, DH tooltip dps vs other tooltip dps is just totally meaningless. Not to mention is just costs as much to get as the comprable dps on the other classes.

    Resource could def be another way to tweak DHs. I also thought about removing/lowering the cd from rain of venegance and making it spend hatred.

    But we def need something to be compatible in this new game where you need to select MP or we'll remain awesome at MP2/3 wich was the original game difficulty and suck on higher MPs.
  • #17
    I'd just like to say that in a game on mp10 unlike other classes my dh doesn't die 90% of the time their other classes with 200 more AR than i do. With DH being effective or not is all about positioning and movement.
    And i seem to switch around 5 or so builds all serving a role, all fun to play

    ^ Wotb + br up: live conditions.
  • #18
    Quitted a plvl 47 barb because is totally boring... I fall asleep during whirlwind, nothing to think, just stand there and move your wrist. On the other hand, my DH is slower at farming that my barb but it takes more focus to survive and I love that, you certainly need some skill to play it at max. Dodging fireballs like a pro is hard!
  • #19
    It seems to me that those defending DH play at higher MPs are either relatively new to DHs or playing them as alts. Yes, it's undeniable that DHs are incredibly fun and take a bit of challenge to play effectively(not that much though) and this is quite rewarding by itself. However, D3 is about farming the most(xp, items, w/e) in the less time possible. This is where DH fails. Sure, if you know/bother to kite efficiently, you don't die, even on MP10. Sadly, kiting back 3-4 screens while shooting at mobs for tiny ammounts of their HP is just TIME CONSUMING wich results is incredibly low farming outcome. Other classes eventually get to a gear point where they just make everything on screen vanish - DHs don't. They keep kiting infinitely. And the only thing to blame is the % wep dmg on their skills - compare that huge 400% nuke that's loaded for bear, that you can shoot 3x in a row max to a monk's 850%+100%ish bells that they can spam and that's where you start glimpsing at the real problem. DAMAGE SCALING.(sorry for wall of text, can't paragraph for some reason)
  • #20
    Quote from Kamisei2400

    I'd just like to say that in a game on mp10 unlike other classes my dh doesn't die 90% of the time their other classes with 200 more AR than i do. With DH being effective or not is all about positioning and movement.
    That simply isn't true at all. Once you hit a high enough damage point, all you need is 300ish all res and lifesteal and nothing kills you. As any class.
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