So, now that Nether Tentacle is nerfed/fixed to oblivion, making those balls of death inefficient, what would be best way to deal with reflect mobs that cannot be bursted down, like the 'new' Siegebreaker?
Honestly, I have no idea how reflect damage on mobs in calculated, as only time I bothered to check, it was doing 5% of the damage I dealt. Would specific type of resist decrease the damage intake, or does only vitality can help taking it up?
Right now, I'm trying to kill them slowly, by switching to (worse) backup Bow with highish LoH, with mixed results. There seem to be really weak self healing choice for DH. Sentry have way too small range, Preparation have too long cooldown, Brooding require downtime in shooting and high base vit, and Shadow Power (Gloom) kinda overlaps with Smoke Screen Discipline usage. So I'm stuck with trying to balance Ball Lightning nuking under SS, and regaining (slowly) health by using Entangling Show with healing rune.
I'm wondering if there is better way, or better skills to use with LoH. I managed to find Barb, Monk, and Wiz coefficients for Life on Hit, but I can't find it for Demon Hunter, does anyone have those numbers?
build: http://eu.battle.net...XVYT!Yae!YcabcZ
+ pots
+ templar whit 110k hp (if singleplayer)
(helps to have more then 42 discipline also so that you can use smoke screen 3x times in a row before preparation.
i also kite very well whit the smokescreen+tactical advatange gicing me +95% run speed for 1 sec, and +60% second after.
most of the time i can kite them, fire some rounds, run back, fire some more... i rarely take that mutch damage that it will be close to kill me. as i you i use my preparation as a healing also
also have like 300 life on hit, it dont really help me that mutch tho i will switch to lifesteal% on weapon once i found one i like (it is better then what you might think)
edit....
i have like 45k dps. the guy below me go for allot more survivability then me
Get a couple of pieces of gear that add up to 5-6% damage converted to life and you negate all reflect DMG ( as it reflects 5% DMG )
please note that % damage to life is reduced by ALOT in inferno. I don't know where the percentages are but as has been mentioned on this forum and many others and by blues there is a reduction in nightmare, further reduction in hell and a massive reduction in inferno. Life on hit almost always scales better at this point in time.
Nivius, you are using NT, which goes null tomorrow for Europe. When I used it, I haven't got problems either, but since I'm trying to move towards Ball Lightning now, 6 SS don't cut it for some packs. Now, Templar might be good idea, although loosing that 16% mf from Enchantress and her pushback/haste aura, it will hurt.
Prode, are you reliably farming (most) of Act III with that dps? Whole way from Ghom to Siegebreaker while surviving stray hits? I don't see point of dropping massive dps 'just' for reflect damage.
And Life Leech, to cover 5% reflect (if that's what it hits for always), would need to be at 25% in Inferno, no way to get there. Everything is reduced to 20% of original, my Entangling Shot heals for 1.2%.
And lastly, does any of you actually killed Siegebreaker with Reflect mod? I'll be able to try tomorrow, but I'm afraid it will be a bit painful.
As stated, life leech can help vs. reflect damage, but it's inferior on a per-affix basis to life on hit in Inferno until you're talking about 150k damage per attack or so (3% life leech = 900 life on hit at 150k damage per hit). That's a little misleading because supposedly life leech scales better with multiple hits in AoE skills, but I assume you aren't using AoE skills on reflect damage mobs. Excluding skill changes, here are some things you can do, roughly in order from most to least helpful:
- Increase your life on hit
- Get a faster weapon (assuming equal DPS, it'll do less damage per attack and proc life on hit more often)
- Increase max health
- Get some life leech (this can move up the list as your damage per attack increases, and to the top around 150k)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
Get a couple of pieces of gear that add up to 5-6% damage converted to life and you negate all reflect DMG ( as it reflects 5% DMG )
please note that % damage to life is reduced by ALOT in inferno. I don't know where the percentages are but as has been mentioned on this forum and many others and by blues there is a reduction in nightmare, further reduction in hell and a massive reduction in inferno. Life on hit almost always scales better at this point in time.
80% Reduction on Inferno. So to get your 5% you would need 25% on paper.
also skills (like barb passive 3%) are NOT reduced by difficult. (same goes for tentacles 3%)
That is false, and it's reason why they are so crappy. I don't have Barb to test, but I do kept notice of healing numbers on Entangling Shot rune. When I didn't crit, I hit for 17000 damage and was healed for
200. 200/17000 ~= 0.012
But rune states it heals for 6% of damage done
0.012 / 0.06 = 0.2
Oh look, 20% of power, just like it was weakened by 80% by Inferno Difficulty.
As for BL, try it, it hits twice pretty much every time I tried, and will hit 3 on big mobs, making it superior to NT on them.
This, a million times this. I couldn't believe it hadn't been mentioned sooner. This is such a great and versatile ability. When you use Smoke Screen against reflects damage you have to time it for when your projectiles will hit the target, and if they are in a long line you can still end up hurting/killing yourself. With SP-Gloom you pop it and fire until it fades. Since it lasts twice as long as Smoke Screen for the same discipline cost you are doubling your dps time on the elites. Gloom also reduces the damage you take by 65% for 3 seconds which came in handy during the spider phase on Cydaea (was getting 1 shot w/o gloom up and SS was too short for the phase). Also, I'm getting 1 shot a lot less now which means it comes in handy for healing back up. You can also use it to facetank things in acts 1 and 2 (and some in act 3). Great ability you should all try out for at least one playthrough.
So, now that Nether Tentacle is nerfed/fixed to oblivion, making those balls of death inefficient, what would be best way to deal with reflect mobs that cannot be bursted down, like the 'new' Siegebreaker?
NT is not ineffective at all. NT / Ball Lightning are both decent and both do 155% damage ... and when dealing with Reflect mobs, I think NT is better then BL.
Yes, NT is still probably the best for reflect mobs due to the single hit factor. What the *fix* to NT really did was force us to be 3 button ... generator + aoe + nuke. In my case I took Impale.
On reflect mobs last night I would do 3 BL's (trying BL but probably switching back to NT), SS, then 2 Impales.
Elementals (BL or NT) are slow which works nicely coupled with fast abilities like Impale+wounds. Of course the Impale only hit the front target, but hey crits on impale drop mobs fast (and suck up hatred as well).
Just cause they are *fixed* NT doesn't mean it's terrible and should be dropped ... matter of fact, any DH that has that knee jerk reaction is probably a pretty bad DH ... sorry.
nt is slow and inaccurate but one ball did so much damage. when you got an opening to stand still and spam it it was fuckin crazy. it was great to kite with and our best execute finisher.
nt is slow and inaccurate but one ball did so much damage. when you got an opening to stand still and spam it it was fuckin crazy. it was great to kite with and our best execute finisher.
now it's terrible
devouring arrow is better damage
Yes, it was crazy as in it was overpowered and broken and "so much damage" means "too much damage compared to every other skill in the game".
It's not terrible. As stated before, you are terrible if you think that. You were probably one of those quitting the game because of the IAS fix too?
First off, this is how my DH look like, note that she has +10 dis and +18% movement speed.:
Runes for Elemental Arrow: Frost Arrow,
Preparation: Back up plan
Shadow power: Gloom
other skills doesn't matter.
Passive are Archery, Steady aim and Tactical Advantage
When engaging mob with reflect damage, shoot a few frost arrow, drink a potion. ( potions recharge in 30 sec.)
shoot a few arrow -> shadow power to leech back. With + 10 discipline , you can do 3 shadow power in a row, and with preparation , you can do 6, 6x 3 sec = 18 sec. If you are lucky, backup plan kicks in, you have another 9 second of safe time.
During the down time of both potion and shadow power ,focus in dodging. When either is up again, repeat the process. It is very simple, just do not attack when both shadow power and potions are recharging.
Shadow power is very useful in other situation(e.g. blocked by wall from 3 sides and a group of mobs is approaching you from the opening. SS never give you enuf time to stay long enuf to wait for the wall to vanish)
Con is, using frost arrow require you to be very good at aiming, as it does not have range that is like NT or ball lighting. When kiting small and fast mob, it is quite a challenge.
Honestly, I have no idea how reflect damage on mobs in calculated, as only time I bothered to check, it was doing 5% of the damage I dealt. Would specific type of resist decrease the damage intake, or does only vitality can help taking it up?
Right now, I'm trying to kill them slowly, by switching to (worse) backup Bow with highish LoH, with mixed results. There seem to be really weak self healing choice for DH. Sentry have way too small range, Preparation have too long cooldown, Brooding require downtime in shooting and high base vit, and Shadow Power (Gloom) kinda overlaps with Smoke Screen Discipline usage. So I'm stuck with trying to balance Ball Lightning nuking under SS, and regaining (slowly) health by using Entangling Show with healing rune.
I'm wondering if there is better way, or better skills to use with LoH. I managed to find Barb, Monk, and Wiz coefficients for Life on Hit, but I can't find it for Demon Hunter, does anyone have those numbers?
25k hp
300+ all resist
build:
http://eu.battle.net...XVYT!Yae!YcabcZ
+ pots
+ templar whit 110k hp (if singleplayer)
(helps to have more then 42 discipline also so that you can use smoke screen 3x times in a row before preparation.
i also kite very well whit the smokescreen+tactical advatange gicing me +95% run speed for 1 sec, and +60% second after.
most of the time i can kite them, fire some rounds, run back, fire some more... i rarely take that mutch damage that it will be close to kill me. as i you i use my preparation as a healing also
also have like 300 life on hit, it dont really help me that mutch tho i will switch to lifesteal% on weapon once i found one i like (it is better then what you might think)
edit....
i have like 45k dps. the guy below me go for allot more survivability then me
I got 35k hp, ~700+ all res, ~4k armor, ~35k dps with 1 tick SS and I barely notice reflect damage.
please note that % damage to life is reduced by ALOT in inferno. I don't know where the percentages are but as has been mentioned on this forum and many others and by blues there is a reduction in nightmare, further reduction in hell and a massive reduction in inferno. Life on hit almost always scales better at this point in time.
Prode, are you reliably farming (most) of Act III with that dps? Whole way from Ghom to Siegebreaker while surviving stray hits? I don't see point of dropping massive dps 'just' for reflect damage.
And Life Leech, to cover 5% reflect (if that's what it hits for always), would need to be at 25% in Inferno, no way to get there. Everything is reduced to 20% of original, my Entangling Shot heals for 1.2%.
And lastly, does any of you actually killed Siegebreaker with Reflect mod? I'll be able to try tomorrow, but I'm afraid it will be a bit painful.
ball of lightning hits 1 target maximum 2 times for 77% damage... compare the the damage you do...
also skills (like barb passive 3%) are NOT reduced by difficult. (same goes for tentacles 3%)
- Increase your life on hit
- Get a faster weapon (assuming equal DPS, it'll do less damage per attack and proc life on hit more often)
- Increase max health
- Get some life leech (this can move up the list as your damage per attack increases, and to the top around 150k)
80% Reduction on Inferno. So to get your 5% you would need 25% on paper.
200. 200/17000 ~= 0.012
But rune states it heals for 6% of damage done
0.012 / 0.06 = 0.2
Oh look, 20% of power, just like it was weakened by 80% by Inferno Difficulty.
As for BL, try it, it hits twice pretty much every time I tried, and will hit 3 on big mobs, making it superior to NT on them.
NT is not ineffective at all. NT / Ball Lightning are both decent and both do 155% damage ... and when dealing with Reflect mobs, I think NT is better then BL.
Yes, NT is still probably the best for reflect mobs due to the single hit factor. What the *fix* to NT really did was force us to be 3 button ... generator + aoe + nuke. In my case I took Impale.
On reflect mobs last night I would do 3 BL's (trying BL but probably switching back to NT), SS, then 2 Impales.
Elementals (BL or NT) are slow which works nicely coupled with fast abilities like Impale+wounds. Of course the Impale only hit the front target, but hey crits on impale drop mobs fast (and suck up hatred as well).
Just cause they are *fixed* NT doesn't mean it's terrible and should be dropped ... matter of fact, any DH that has that knee jerk reaction is probably a pretty bad DH ... sorry.
now it's terrible
devouring arrow is better damage
Yes, it was crazy as in it was overpowered and broken and "so much damage" means "too much damage compared to every other skill in the game".
It's not terrible. As stated before, you are terrible if you think that. You were probably one of those quitting the game because of the IAS fix too?
Runes for Elemental Arrow: Frost Arrow,
Preparation: Back up plan
Shadow power: Gloom
other skills doesn't matter.
Passive are Archery, Steady aim and Tactical Advantage
When engaging mob with reflect damage, shoot a few frost arrow, drink a potion. ( potions recharge in 30 sec.)
shoot a few arrow -> shadow power to leech back. With + 10 discipline , you can do 3 shadow power in a row, and with preparation , you can do 6, 6x 3 sec = 18 sec. If you are lucky, backup plan kicks in, you have another 9 second of safe time.
During the down time of both potion and shadow power ,focus in dodging. When either is up again, repeat the process. It is very simple, just do not attack when both shadow power and potions are recharging.
Shadow power is very useful in other situation(e.g. blocked by wall from 3 sides and a group of mobs is approaching you from the opening. SS never give you enuf time to stay long enuf to wait for the wall to vanish)
Con is, using frost arrow require you to be very good at aiming, as it does not have range that is like NT or ball lighting. When kiting small and fast mob, it is quite a challenge.
Noobie#1931