DH "Perma" INVISIBLE cheesy build

  • #1
    I searched a bit and didn't find any topic about this, so check this out:

    People are saying you will have to farm hell to stand a chance on inferno, BUT you can actually farm inferno with this trick. Barrels and Chests can drop the same loot monsters do, but with lower chance. Soooo....just run around with this build and collect everything you can.
    Also, you can run to some easy boss like SK, and beat him(his mechanics are the same, even in inferno, so I guess someone could kill him even in crap gear). Just figure a way through those "must do" events, like the 4 pillars right before him.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#dfXVQT!aWf!YYZcbY

    Explanation

    Run like the wind(you will have MS cap)! If some monsters wanna pick on you, roll with Evasive Fire for only 2 Disc or Vault costing 0 Disc (15 sec CD). If you get a chance to safely Multishot to recover Disc, do it. If they REALLY want you dead and thing are getting ugly, you can simple Walk Into Mordor for 18 second!(Smoke Screen 3x - Preparation - Smoke screen 3x). The companion is just for lazy gold pick up :P

    Anyway, what you guys think?
  • #2
    According to interviews you cannot skip enemies on Inferno and they're way faster (faster than the player). Additionally there'll be enrage timers on bosses.

    I don't think I'll have to tell more.
  • #3
    If you go invis, how could they follow you? Would they seriously just stand around, and then run after you once you turn visible, despite being clearly off the screen?
    Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
    "Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
  • #4
    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    If you go invis, how could they follow you? Would they seriously just stand around, and then run after you once you turn visible, despite being clearly off the screen?


    i'd be interested to hear if they'd follow someone who goes invis and then out of line of sight. anyone know of a post on this topic?
  • #5
    well just to be a dick;

    Barrels' drop rate is so low it's not worth ONLY farming them, but farming them WITH elite groups

    Bosses CAN'T drop the best loot without the NV buff from killing elite groups, so they aren't worth it w/o killing elites.

    I do think however that once you go invis and off the screen, they won't follow you. I'd also like to see if you can cast TP while invisd' =D
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #6
    With enough +discipline gear, attack speed and hatreg regen (not extreme amounts, something attainable in Hell), and 3+ targets, a perma-invis build is theoretically possible though.. let's say 50 discipline, +1,5 hatred regen, 3 APS and 3 targets for multishot
    Something like this:
    (with the extra hatred regen from templar as well)

    Spam grenades and muiltishot, keep SS up, preparation when needed.

    Not a lot of DPS, and we know now that mobs have enrage timers.. but then again, they can't kill you if you're invisible, even if enraged

    Either the datamined item stats we're seeing are very wrong, or smoke screen will get the nerfbat pretty soon
  • #7
    Quote from kazimbr

    With enough +discipline gear, attack speed and hatreg regen (not extreme amounts, something attainable in Hell), and 3+ targets, a perma-invis build is theoretically possible though.. let's say 50 discipline, +1,5 hatred regen, 3 APS and 3 targets for multishot
    Something like this:
    (with the extra hatred regen from templar as well)

    Spam grenades and muiltishot, keep SS up, preparation when needed.

    Not a lot of DPS, and we know now that mobs have enrage timers.. but then again, they can't kill you if you're invisible, even if enraged

    Either the datamined item stats we're seeing are very wrong, or smoke screen will get the nerfbat pretty soon


    3 APS
    3 second window = 9 skill uses
    Subtract 1 for skill use for smoke screen, leaving 8 skill uses.

    Smoke Screen cost 12 disc with perfectionist.
    3 seconds = 3 disc & 30 hatred regened (4+3+1.5+1.5)
    2 multi-shots = -80 hatred & +6 disc

    6 free skill uses for Grenades.
    6 * 8 = 48 hatred

    Hatred disc would be about neutral, and you need perfectionist to yield that extra 3-4 disc and that would be neutral as well.


    So yah, I guess it could be done, but that level of attack speed is pretty high.
    Even with DW xbows you would need 63% increased attack speed.
    Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
    "Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
  • #8
    Why is everybody assuming that mobs de-aggro and/or cannot kill you when you're invisible? There's a reason it's called invisibility and not invulnerability.

    The only data we have about inferno mobs is that you cannot skip any rare/champion packs (was in one of the recent interviews) and they're very likely to have strong AoE attacks (was also in one of the interviews where Jay outlined how they distributed abilities over the game).

    Nobody knows how they made those enemies un-skippable but for all we know they could just have enemies who see through invisibility or kill you with AoEs even if you're invisible. Or enemies could just aggro you no matter if you're invisible and re-engage you once you're out of invisibility - and I doubt you'd be able to kill more than one set of barrels before a horde of Inferno mobs who run faster than you were able to kill you. In the end you'd probably lose more gold to repairs than you'd get on average.

    And as for bosses:
    Even without the Nephalem Valor buff, as far as we know, they have the same loot tables as rare packs. However I doubt you'd be able to kill even SK with crappy gear, let alone before the enrage timer. After all the mechanics are the same (for this boss), but attributes are not. Inferno enemies are not only tougher but at the very least also much faster. E.g. the SK fight gets way harder if skeletons run faster than you and don't die in a few shots. You'd very quickly get overwhelmed and have no more space to kite even if kiting was possible.
  • #9
    Quote from sequelator

    ...
    Anyway, what you guys think?


    Wall + perma "large" aoe + ultra speed + extra attack and it will be kthxbye

    Some skill combination will be horrendous even if you manage to be invisible most of the time, just one error and you are dead, nothing can tell us that there won't be monsters that "see" through all.

    And you say that SK will be easy in inferno ?

    Even if mechanics don't change that won't mean he is easy in inferno. Maybe the version we have seen on normal is just for "pussies" (low damage, hp, speed, wrong CDs) and starting from hell he starts to be a lot more annoying.
  • #10
    Quote from GT4

    Why is everybody assuming that mobs de-aggro and/or cannot kill you when you're invisible? There's a reason it's called invisibility and not invulnerability.

    The only data we have about inferno mobs is that you cannot skip any rare/champion packs (was in one of the recent interviews) and they're very likely to have strong AoE attacks (was also in one of the interviews where Jay outlined how they distributed abilities over the game).

    Nobody knows how they made those enemies un-skippable but for all we know they could just have enemies who see through invisibility or kill you with AoEs even if you're invisible. Or enemies could just aggro you no matter if you're invisible and re-engage you once you're out of invisibility - and I doubt you'd be able to kill more than one set of barrels before a horde of Inferno mobs who run faster than you were able to kill you. In the end you'd probably lose more gold to repairs than you'd get on average.


    Mobs that see through invisibility..... RIGHT!
    Maybe they also throw Bolas onto the barbarians legs so they can't leap?
    And they might have a wormhole disruptor, whatever the hell that is, to prevent Wizards from using teleport as well!?
    That is reaching at best...come on.

    I have played DH a lot on the beta, and Smoke Screen practically makes you invincible. I am sure you could still get hit by stray arrows, or if you stand in AoE, but the mobs won't attack you no matter how close you are to them.
    Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
    "Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
  • #11
    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    Quote from GT4

    Why is everybody assuming that mobs de-aggro and/or cannot kill you when you're invisible? There's a reason it's called invisibility and not invulnerability.

    The only data we have about inferno mobs is that you cannot skip any rare/champion packs (was in one of the recent interviews) and they're very likely to have strong AoE attacks (was also in one of the interviews where Jay outlined how they distributed abilities over the game).

    Nobody knows how they made those enemies un-skippable but for all we know they could just have enemies who see through invisibility or kill you with AoEs even if you're invisible. Or enemies could just aggro you no matter if you're invisible and re-engage you once you're out of invisibility - and I doubt you'd be able to kill more than one set of barrels before a horde of Inferno mobs who run faster than you were able to kill you. In the end you'd probably lose more gold to repairs than you'd get on average.


    Mobs that see through invisibility..... RIGHT!
    Maybe they also throw Bolas onto the barbarians legs so they can't leap?
    And they might have a wormhole disruptor, whatever the hell that is, to prevent Wizards from using teleport as well!?
    That is reaching at best...come on.

    I have played DH a lot on the beta, and Smoke Screen practically makes you invincible. I am sure you could still get hit by stray arrows, or if you stand in AoE, but the mobs won't attack you no matter how close you are to them.


    You played the supposed to be tutorial in Normal (aka Easy) mode. Do you really think all those one button wonders that worked in the beta will also work in Inferno?

    And why would there not be mobs who see through invisibility? Have you ever played other Blizzard games? All of the latest Blizzard titles (WC3/TFT, WoW, SC2 in that order) had some sort of invisibility mechanic but also an anti-invisibility mechanic (for every game this also included enemies who could permanently see through invisibility, sometimes at a lower than usual range though), partially for balance purposes, partially to prevent exploits such as this one.

    If Jay Wilson, the game director who according to himself has >1000 hours played in D3, tells us that you (at least) cannot skip rare/champion packs, how is that mistakable? Do you really think they'd just overlooked all abilities that usually allow you to skip enemies?
  • #12
    Quote from GT4

    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    Quote from GT4

    Why is everybody assuming that mobs de-aggro and/or cannot kill you when you're invisible? There's a reason it's called invisibility and not invulnerability.

    The only data we have about inferno mobs is that you cannot skip any rare/champion packs (was in one of the recent interviews) and they're very likely to have strong AoE attacks (was also in one of the interviews where Jay outlined how they distributed abilities over the game).

    Nobody knows how they made those enemies un-skippable but for all we know they could just have enemies who see through invisibility or kill you with AoEs even if you're invisible. Or enemies could just aggro you no matter if you're invisible and re-engage you once you're out of invisibility - and I doubt you'd be able to kill more than one set of barrels before a horde of Inferno mobs who run faster than you were able to kill you. In the end you'd probably lose more gold to repairs than you'd get on average.


    Mobs that see through invisibility..... RIGHT!
    Maybe they also throw Bolas onto the barbarians legs so they can't leap?
    And they might have a wormhole disruptor, whatever the hell that is, to prevent Wizards from using teleport as well!?
    That is reaching at best...come on.

    I have played DH a lot on the beta, and Smoke Screen practically makes you invincible. I am sure you could still get hit by stray arrows, or if you stand in AoE, but the mobs won't attack you no matter how close you are to them.


    You played the supposed to be tutorial in Normal (aka Easy) mode. Do you really think all those one button wonders that worked in the beta will also work in Inferno?

    And why would there not be mobs who see through invisibility? Have you ever played other Blizzard games? All of the latest Blizzard titles (WC3/TFT, WoW, SC2 in that order) had some sort of invisibility mechanic but also an anti-invisibility mechanic (for every game this also included enemies who could permanently see through invisibility, sometimes at a lower than usual range though), partially for balance purposes, partially to prevent exploits such as this one.

    If Jay Wilson, the game director who according to himself has >1000 hours played in D3, tells us that you (at least) cannot skip rare/champion packs, how is that mistakable? Do you really think they'd just overlooked all abilities that usually allow you to skip enemies?


    I don't give a shit if I spent the last few months playing Pac-man, it doesn't rule out common sense.
    This isn't other blizzard games, and its a COMPLETELY different situation.

    The demons will have heat vision goggles at the exact same time that the wormhole disruptor is up and running.

    Occam's razor - It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

    2 options
    Jay's comment could be false. This might be an unexpected exploit of that system.
    Jay's comment is right. In which case there are a lot more plausible options than Demon heat vision googles.


    I am going with the 1st statement, as its the most simple. Jay is mistaken, and this could possibly work. If that's proven to be false, then the next likely candidate is that the mobs won't stop chasing you in inferno.
    Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
    "Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
  • #13
    Quote from Bleu42

    well just to be a dick;

    Barrels' drop rate is so low it's not worth ONLY farming them, but farming them WITH elite groups

    Bosses CAN'T drop the best loot without the NV buff from killing elite groups, so they aren't worth it w/o killing elites.

    I do think however that once you go invis and off the screen, they won't follow you. I'd also like to see if you can cast TP while invisd' =D


    1- Barrel's drops are low, but there are some chests or corpses that ALWAYS drop at least 1-2 blues, I remember a few(blacksmith apprentice corpse and a golden chest on a tomb)
    2-I know about the NV buff, but maybe it's worth farming in Inferno with a gimmick strategy than Hell...
    3- TP has a 5 seconds cast if im not mistaken...
  • #14
    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    I don't give a shit if I spent the last few months playing Pac-man, it doesn't rule out common sense.
    This isn't other blizzard games, and its a COMPLETELY different situation.

    The demons will have heat vision goggles at the exact same time that the wormhole disruptor is up and running.


    Maybe you should put down your heart shaped glasses and use common sense yourself.

    According to Blizzard, you cannot skip (rare/champion) packs on Inferno.
    If abilities like this one worked just as in Normal and allowed you to skip all enemies, you could skip (rare/champion) packs on Inferno.
    Thus the logical consequence is that the ability cannot work exactly as on Normal (most likely by having enemies not react to it just like on Normal - but that'd be speculation). You call this a proof by contradiction.

    According to Blizzard, Inferno is freaking hard and not beaten by anybody at Blizzard office so far.
    If permanent invisibility builds were possible and you were invulnerable during invisibility, you could avoid all damage no matter how high it is.
    If you can avoid all damage no matter how high it is, content can actually not be hard (ignoring Enrage timers but those would rather cause gear checks than higher difficulty).
    Thus a permanent invisibility build cannot be possible.

    You can go with the same logic for e.g. stunlock builds or 'flawless' kiting rotation builds, etc.

    The only way such a build may work is by an oversight of Blizzard, and unless such a build is really complex Blizzard will not have overlooked such a possibility.

    Occam's razor - It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

    2 options
    Jay's comment could be false. This might be an unexpected exploit of that system.
    Jay's comment is right. In which case there are a lot more plausible options than Demon heat vision googles.


    I am going with the 1st statement, as its the most simple. Jay is mistaken, and this could possibly work. If that's proven to be false, then the next likely candidate is that the mobs won't stop chasing you in inferno.


    First off, that principle doesn't really apply here but I won't start a philosophical discussion now in a language that's not my mother tongue.
    However there's more than just a few arguments speaking against the first option. If you believe Blizzard in how extensive they internally test everything and if you go by their experience in other games (and most of their developers actually worked on at least one of their former games), the likeliness of such a simple exploit going through all the testing unnoticed is close to zero. In other games they learned invisibility can be exploited. In other games they learned how to prevent that. Now they do the same mistake again? Highly unlikely.

    Secondly, show me where I said enemies will definitely see through invisibility. It's one of the options among many possible ones and the most simple one. Considering its consequences it's not the most likely one because of gameplay results but that isn't the point here.
  • #15
    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    I don't give a shit if I spent the last few months playing Pac-man, it doesn't rule out common sense.
    This isn't other blizzard games, and its a COMPLETELY different situation.

    The demons will have heat vision goggles at the exact same time that the wormhole disruptor is up and running.

    Occam's razor - It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

    2 options
    Jay's comment could be false. This might be an unexpected exploit of that system.
    Jay's comment is right. In which case there are a lot more plausible options than Demon heat vision googles.


    I am going with the 1st statement, as its the most simple. Jay is mistaken, and this could possibly work. If that's proven to be false, then the next likely candidate is that the mobs won't stop chasing you in inferno.


    About "Demon heat vision googles" maybe it's just an "immune" system on des-aggro ? we have already see some immune in beta (stun immune for example). So why not a system like that ? Sure it won't be fair but i'm guessing you will also have "freeze immmune", "slow immune" and other fun factor in inferno.
  • #16
    Quote from Licania

    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    I don't give a shit if I spent the last few months playing Pac-man, it doesn't rule out common sense.
    This isn't other blizzard games, and its a COMPLETELY different situation.

    The demons will have heat vision goggles at the exact same time that the wormhole disruptor is up and running.

    Occam's razor - It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

    2 options
    Jay's comment could be false. This might be an unexpected exploit of that system.
    Jay's comment is right. In which case there are a lot more plausible options than Demon heat vision googles.


    I am going with the 1st statement, as its the most simple. Jay is mistaken, and this could possibly work. If that's proven to be false, then the next likely candidate is that the mobs won't stop chasing you in inferno.


    About "Demon heat vision googles" maybe it's just an "immune" system on des-aggro ? we have already see some immune in beta (stun immune for example). So why not a system like that ? Sure it won't be fair but i'm guessing you will also have "freeze immmune", "slow immune" and other fun factor in inferno.


    Seriously, why would they not have similar abilities as in other games they've made? Tons of abilities work the same way in all Blizzard games and if they find an ability fitting to e.g. an Undead Shade, I don't see how they wouldn't see it fitting to some D3 mobs as well.

    In case you don't know what I'm talking about, Shades were an undead unit that was permanently invisible that had a True Sight ability allowing it to permanently see other invisible units.

    People here are talking about Occam's razor and the most simple option usually being the most likely and then they discard the most simple option for Blizzard to prevent this exploit from the getgo. That certainly doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
  • #17
    Quote from GT4

    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    I don't give a shit if I spent the last few months playing Pac-man, it doesn't rule out common sense.
    This isn't other blizzard games, and its a COMPLETELY different situation.

    The demons will have heat vision goggles at the exact same time that the wormhole disruptor is up and running.


    Maybe you should put down your heart shaped glasses and use common sense yourself.

    According to Blizzard, you cannot skip (rare/champion) packs on Inferno.
    If abilities like this one worked just as in Normal and allowed you to skip all enemies, you could skip (rare/champion) packs on Inferno.
    Thus the logical consequence is that the ability cannot work exactly as on Normal (most likely by having enemies not react to it just like on Normal - but that'd be speculation). You call this a proof by contradiction.

    According to Blizzard, Inferno is freaking hard and not beaten by anybody at Blizzard office so far.
    If permanent invisibility builds were possible and you were invulnerable during invisibility, you could avoid all damage no matter how high it is.
    If you can avoid all damage no matter how high it is, content can actually not be hard (ignoring Enrage timers but those would rather cause gear checks than higher difficulty).
    Thus a permanent invisibility build cannot be possible.

    You can go with the same logic for e.g. stunlock builds or 'flawless' kiting rotation builds, etc.

    The only way such a build may work is by an oversight of Blizzard, and unless such a build is really complex Blizzard will not have overlooked such a possibility.


    I am NOT saying this is an exploit, or this could beat Inferno because it CANT. This is just a build to farm only on chests and get to some bosses without killing stuff. If you can kill those bosses, I don't know(and of course you have have to respec right before trying...)
    And smoke screen is not unbalaced imo, cuz the Disc cost is high and you are vulnerable for a moment between smoke screens
  • #18
    ITT: People arguing over even more things that they know nothing about.


    I imagine that Jay was referencing the movement speed of the monsters - not their ability to detect invisiblity. If you argue that they're able to detect invisibility - you're arguing that those skills are 100% useless.

    Think about that for a minute. They've said they want every ability to be viable. I highly doubt they'd put in a mechanic that completely stone-walls some abilities.

    Having said that - I imagine their movement speed is increased - and even if it isn't, I imagine that they're more "clingy" than in normal mode. I imagine instead of say, a screen away, they'll chase you until you're a screen and a half to two screens away.

    Like I said - I highly doubt they'd just put in mechanics that completely break skills when their mantra has been that every skill is viable.

    Also: If you don't remember, they said monster response times are better in Inferno. This means that monsters wouldn't just stand there while you run by them like in normal. Their hit-delay is also lowered. This means that they will hit more intelligently and more frequently. I'm pretty sure them being a THREAT is enough for people to want to kill them rather than risk running right by them.

    My point:

    Monk

    Dashing strike teleports you to the monsters. What now?

    Barbarian

    Leap gets you to them - Sprint makes you run right by them...What now?

    Wizard

    Teleport can land you right in the middle of them. What now?

    Witch Doctor

    Spirit Walking doesn't last long enough to get you anywhere. What now?

    Demon hunter

    Vault and other skills about movement speed will bring you right beside the enemy. What now? They have invisibility, ah....

    If I recall correctly...a few of the boys in blue said they'd choose the DH if they were specifically farming.


    I wonder why. -scratch furry chin-
  • #19
    Quote from sequelator

    I am NOT saying this is an exploit, or this could beat Inferno because it CANT. This is just a build to farm only on chests and get to some bosses without killing stuff. If you can kill those bosses, I don't know(and of course you have have to respec right before trying...)
    And smoke screen is not unbalaced imo, cuz the Disc cost is high and you are vulnerable for a moment between smoke screens


    I've mentioned this multiple times now but according to Blizzard, you simply cannot skip (rare/champion) packs. So unless we assume Blizzard is wrong from the getgo, this will not work to effectively farm anything - and if we were to believe that Blizzard is wrong, where would we make the cut? Maybe they also lied about barrels being able to drop the best items? Maybe they also lied about there being an Inferno mode whatsoever? You probably see where this is going.

    Quote from Red_Panda

    ITT: People arguing over even more things that they know nothing about.


    I imagine that Jay was referencing the movement speed of the monsters - not their ability to detect invisiblity. If you argue that they're able to detect invisibility - you're arguing that those skills are 100% useless.

    Think about that for a minute. They've said they want every ability to be viable. I highly doubt they'd put in a mechanic that completely stone-walls some abilities.

    Having said that - I imagine their movement speed is increased - and even if it isn't, I imagine that they're more "clingy" than in normal mode. I imagine instead of say, a screen away, they'll chase you until you're a screen and a half to two screens away.

    Like I said - I highly doubt they'd just put in mechanics that completely break skills when their mantra has been that every skill is viable.


    That's the reason why I said it's unlikely for Inferno mobs in general to have permanent invisibility detection. But it could easily be an affix for rare/champion packs, or an indirect invisibility detection once you go to far without killing enemies - this may sound weird but in their other games they often had triggers for enemies to aggro you once you passed a certain point - and that would be independant on whether you were invisible or not. Or it could just be enemies re-aggroing you once you were visible again as mentioned earlier.

    After all we don't know a lot, but if we speculate, it should be based on what we actually know and what makes sense. We know that, according to Jay, you cannot skip champion/rare packs and it makes sense not to be able to through any means or Inferno would suddenly get way easier. And especially when such a gameplay is semi-limited to select classes, then it's something Blizzard will not allow.
  • #20
    Just so people understand. They have stated some abilities the regular champion mobs have... IE WALL OF FUCKING DEATH+FREEZE+SPEED+TELEPORT, this consists of trapping you into a certain position to be killed. The mobs in later difficulties especially inferno do not take things laying down. Basically no matter what you will HAVE to fight!!!

    So to be blunt champion mobs in inferno will have atleast 4 super skills if not more. So running around is not an option.
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