So, if the title wasn't clear enough, this build is for two Demon Hunters in Inferno.
The Motivation
I've been thinking about this because my brother and I are both really excited about playing DH first. Instead of fighting over him/her, I've been thinking about how viable it might be for both of us to play DH.
The Theory
As far as I understand, DH is basically a glass cannon who survives by evading damage (traps, defensive skills etc.). An Inferno build needs strong CC and defensive abilities along with a high damage output. My theory is that if one skilled player is able to successfully avoid fatal damage in Inferno, then two skilled players should be able to do it too. This will basically mitigate the jump in difficulty caused by having two players in a game, as our DPS will be much higher, while our incoming damage is mostly avoided (hopefully...).
The Builds
My idea is to have player 1 focus on heavy CC, while still having decent AoE and single target damage and personal defences, while player 2 focuses on stronger damage, while still having decent CC and strong defences.
Entangling Shot / Chain Gang: I love the look of this skill, a generator that snares up to 4 targets.
Multishot / Suppression Fire: strong AoE damage that replenishes discipline. (Keep in mind that Patch 16 made this cost 40 hatred.)
Rapid Fire / Withering Fire: the single target spell, runed to make it more useable in conjunction with Multishot.
Vault / Rattling Roll: already explained.
Marked for Death / Contagion: this looks amazing, it can spread throughout an entire group; also very useful against bosses.
Shadow Power / Gloom: already explained.
Passives:
Archery: stronger damage. Could be replaced with Steady Aim if that ends up working well in Inferno.
Cull the Weak: already explained.
Vengeance: already explained.
Gameplay
I think this is fairly self explanatory: the idea is to always maintain distance between you and the enemies. This is achieved through constant CC and Vault. The 2 players each have strong AoE and single target abilities, and their damage will always be increased by passives and Marked for Death. They each have 2 discipline regen methods, Vengeance combined with Bitter Pill or Suppression Fire.
Closing Remarks
I would love any criticisms and thoughts. Please try not to completely change the builds, this is the gameplay style that I'm going for, so by all means make changes but try to keep them within the existing build frameworks.
It may be for your ideal game play, but it doesn't mean it's your brother's ideal game play as well. Good luck if he sticks to what you plan.
In my case, I'll be playing the Demon Hunter while my 2 brothers plays the Barbarian and the Witch Doctor... and our sister's brother in law would either take the monk or the wizard for our party of 4.
It may be for your ideal game play, but it doesn't mean it's your brother's ideal game play as well. Good luck if he sticks to what you plan.
In my case, I'll be playing the Demon Hunter while my 2 brothers plays the Barbarian and the Witch Doctor... and our sister's brother in law would either take the monk or the wizard for our party of 4.
.
Sounds like a good team. I think my brother isn't that interested in thinking of builds at the moment, so I'll have to wait and see if he wants to play this style. I'm mostly looking for comments as to whether this looks theoretically viable, or whether I could make any improvements.
Demon Hunters indeed is about keeping your distance and dodging out of harms way. Kiting is the way to go and I see no problem with dual Demon Hunters. But it's very hard to say anything about what the Inferno is like, and the builds might fly out of the window after the first pack. The way I see this is that the CCing DH doesn't get much shots off and generally goes in and out of the melee range fairly frequently, while the other actually kills everything, so the damage spread might be 10/90 or so.
First up the CC build: Caltrops with Tortorous Ground could be even better option, the 2 sec immobilize might give overall more distance/time before the mobs reach you. Also the Vault with Tumble rune might give more benefit, as you could vault in, drop caltrop or two and vault away before anything hits you.
For the DMG build: It's all about standing back and turreting the mobs while your partner tries to keep them in order. So you might swap the Cull of the Weak for Steady Aim. And the Multishot with Suppression fire seems a bit pointless, because you shouldn't be spending that much Discipline anyways. That said you should look at the overall AoE potential of the two of you. Bola Shot and Entangling Shot both are generators and are balanced as such. Also Fan of Knives is with 10 second cooldown. The Multishot is not very spammable ability with its cost and it needs a big group to be worth the cost.
And for both builds you should also consider swapping the Shadow Power for Smoke Screen. It pretty much does the same thing, and you get some extra kiting power, if the one with aggro vanishes the mobs should go after the second DH.
Thanks a lot for the comments! These are some good points. You're definitely right that we can't judge a build's viability in Inferno without actually experiencing the game, but I'm just wanting to get my thoughts out there and critiqued.
That's a good point about using Vault with Tumble. I'm thinking about using Fan of Knives / Retaliate in conjunction with it. So cast Fan of Knives with Retaliate, Vault in, get hit once and deal huge damage, drop Caltrops then Vault out. This would be really cool. Then again, Hail of Knives has a huge AoE, so maybe I should keep that. And yes, Torturous Ground does seem like a good choice. I'm not sure if Immobilize means that enemies can still attack from where they're standing, though?
Just another thought for the CC build: maybe I should replace Rapid Fire with an AoE, like Elemental Arrow? I would lose the Web Shot, but add more AoE damage to the team. Elemental Arrow could also work better with the DMG build, I could replace Multishot, as the former is a more spammable AoE. Overall, with 2 Elemental Arrows, the team's AoE potential might be better.
I would also consider swapping Shadow Power for Smoke Screen, I like the healing but you make a good point that it would be good for kiting. And if we both took Elemental Arrow / Nether Tentacles, we would have some good continual healing from that skill.
Edit: the reason why I'm thinking of having 1 CCer and 1 DMGer is that a build that is focused on one task is more efficient. I.e. the CC has both Caltrops and Fan of Knives so he takes Numbing Traps. If the team doesn't work out because of this, then at least I tried
I will be playing the DH first also. And obviously as before stated we won't know until we actually get to play, but I play to have Multi-shot as my main AOE. Runed with Fire at Will which halves the hate cost. On top of vengeance and popping an entangling shot here and there I think you should be able to spam it decently well.
As far as passives go I think Cull of the Weak and Steady Aim will be nice. It seems fairly likely that you could practically keep the requirements to receive the damage bonuses from both of these at all times. Especially if you have have someone CC'in for you
I will be playing the DH first also. And obviously as before stated we won't know until we actually get to play, but I play to have Multi-shot as my main AOE. Runed with Fire at Will which halves the hate cost. On top of vengeance and popping an entangling shot here and there I think you should be able to spam it decently well.
As far as passives go I think Cull of the Weak and Steady Aim will be nice. It seems fairly likely that you could practically keep the requirements to receive the damage bonuses from both of these at all times. Especially if you have have someone CC'in for you
That's a good point, I think either Multishot / Fire at Will or Elemental Arrow / (Frost Arrow / Nether Tentacles) would work well. I think Multishot has a really nice animation so it will definitely be a fun skill to use. I can't wait to see what Nether Tentacles looks like
Why not switch out build 1 for a melee trap build? I think that would be a lot more efficient in form of loot and identity. It will be about the same as the current one, but imo a lot stronger.
Here's my trap build for melee weapon (spike trap can have either lightning rod, long fuse or scatter):
That's a really interesting concept, I'm kind of a noob when it comes to DH builds so I haven't come accross a melee trapper DH yet.
Few questions: What's the benefit in taking a melee weapon over a 1 hand crossbow + shield, is it for increased damage? Or does it not matter seeing as all your skills are melee, so even with a 1 hand crossbow you will be melee?
Edit: I think I've worked this one out for myself. The "melee" part of this build is not to do with your weapon but your skills, they are all usable without a ranged weapon. So while you can still use a 1h crossbow + shield, you will be better off with a higher damage melee weapon + shield if you have one.
What I still don't know: can enemies target the boar companion? If not would it be better to take an escape skill like Smoke Screen or defensive skill like Shadow Power?
When you're overwhelmed, use Shadow Power for the 65% DR and 20% heal, then drop Spike Trap / Scatter. After the 1.2 second delay you deal 825% damage around you, and get a burst of healing. Additionally, if you use Fan of Knives or spam grenades during Shadow Power's duration you will get even more health back. Could be really useful.
But if the boar companion can take aggro and absorb a lot of damage, that will probably be better.
In general I really like this idea, I think I will try this out for sure.
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The Motivation
I've been thinking about this because my brother and I are both really excited about playing DH first. Instead of fighting over him/her, I've been thinking about how viable it might be for both of us to play DH.
The Theory
As far as I understand, DH is basically a glass cannon who survives by evading damage (traps, defensive skills etc.). An Inferno build needs strong CC and defensive abilities along with a high damage output. My theory is that if one skilled player is able to successfully avoid fatal damage in Inferno, then two skilled players should be able to do it too. This will basically mitigate the jump in difficulty caused by having two players in a game, as our DPS will be much higher, while our incoming damage is mostly avoided (hopefully...).
The Builds
My idea is to have player 1 focus on heavy CC, while still having decent AoE and single target damage and personal defences, while player 2 focuses on stronger damage, while still having decent CC and strong defences.
(1) http://us.battle.net...dhYg!Vbc!YZZbaY
This is the heavy CC build.
Actives
- Shadow Power / Gloom: an excellent defensive ability, especially with the 65% DR.
Passives- Cull the Weak: enemies will always be slowed, so the 15% should always be active. If using a bow, taking Archery would clearly be better.
(2) http://us.battle.net...cdjg!ecb!abbZaYThis build is focused on heavier damage.
Actives
- Shadow Power / Gloom: already explained.
Passives:- Vengeance: already explained.
GameplayI think this is fairly self explanatory: the idea is to always maintain distance between you and the enemies. This is achieved through constant CC and Vault. The 2 players each have strong AoE and single target abilities, and their damage will always be increased by passives and Marked for Death. They each have 2 discipline regen methods, Vengeance combined with Bitter Pill or Suppression Fire.
Closing Remarks
I would love any criticisms and thoughts. Please try not to completely change the builds, this is the gameplay style that I'm going for, so by all means make changes but try to keep them within the existing build frameworks.
Good luck if he sticks to what you plan.
In my case, I'll be playing the Demon Hunter while my 2 brothers plays the Barbarian and the Witch Doctor...
and our sister's brother in law would either take the monk or the wizard for our party of 4.
.
My PvP build would be different from these 13.
Check out the leaked Demon Hunter skill list here from Blizzard China: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tiny.cc/10p16
Diablo III is $50; MSI GT683DXR-423US Gaming Laptop is $1,599; Playing Diablo III w/ my wife & 2 brothers is PRICELESS
Sounds like a good team. I think my brother isn't that interested in thinking of builds at the moment, so I'll have to wait and see if he wants to play this style. I'm mostly looking for comments as to whether this looks theoretically viable, or whether I could make any improvements.
Thanks a lot for the comments! These are some good points. You're definitely right that we can't judge a build's viability in Inferno without actually experiencing the game, but I'm just wanting to get my thoughts out there and critiqued.
That's a good point about using Vault with Tumble. I'm thinking about using Fan of Knives / Retaliate in conjunction with it. So cast Fan of Knives with Retaliate, Vault in, get hit once and deal huge damage, drop Caltrops then Vault out. This would be really cool. Then again, Hail of Knives has a huge AoE, so maybe I should keep that. And yes, Torturous Ground does seem like a good choice. I'm not sure if Immobilize means that enemies can still attack from where they're standing, though?
Just another thought for the CC build: maybe I should replace Rapid Fire with an AoE, like Elemental Arrow? I would lose the Web Shot, but add more AoE damage to the team. Elemental Arrow could also work better with the DMG build, I could replace Multishot, as the former is a more spammable AoE. Overall, with 2 Elemental Arrows, the team's AoE potential might be better.
I would also consider swapping Shadow Power for Smoke Screen, I like the healing but you make a good point that it would be good for kiting. And if we both took Elemental Arrow / Nether Tentacles, we would have some good continual healing from that skill.
Edit: the reason why I'm thinking of having 1 CCer and 1 DMGer is that a build that is focused on one task is more efficient. I.e. the CC has both Caltrops and Fan of Knives so he takes Numbing Traps. If the team doesn't work out because of this, then at least I tried
I will be playing the DH first also. And obviously as before stated we won't know until we actually get to play, but I play to have Multi-shot as my main AOE. Runed with Fire at Will which halves the hate cost. On top of vengeance and popping an entangling shot here and there I think you should be able to spam it decently well.
As far as passives go I think Cull of the Weak and Steady Aim will be nice. It seems fairly likely that you could practically keep the requirements to receive the damage bonuses from both of these at all times. Especially if you have have someone CC'in for you
That's a good point, I think either Multishot / Fire at Will or Elemental Arrow / (Frost Arrow / Nether Tentacles) would work well. I think Multishot has a really nice animation so it will definitely be a fun skill to use. I can't wait to see what Nether Tentacles looks like
That's a really interesting concept, I'm kind of a noob when it comes to DH builds so I haven't come accross a melee trapper DH yet.
Few questions: What's the benefit in taking a melee weapon over a 1 hand crossbow + shield, is it for increased damage? Or does it not matter seeing as all your skills are melee, so even with a 1 hand crossbow you will be melee?
Edit: I think I've worked this one out for myself. The "melee" part of this build is not to do with your weapon but your skills, they are all usable without a ranged weapon. So while you can still use a 1h crossbow + shield, you will be better off with a higher damage melee weapon + shield if you have one.
What I still don't know: can enemies target the boar companion? If not would it be better to take an escape skill like Smoke Screen or defensive skill like Shadow Power?
Here's my variation: http://eu.battle.net...Yghk!Vcb!ZcYYbc
When you're overwhelmed, use Shadow Power for the 65% DR and 20% heal, then drop Spike Trap / Scatter. After the 1.2 second delay you deal 825% damage around you, and get a burst of healing. Additionally, if you use Fan of Knives or spam grenades during Shadow Power's duration you will get even more health back. Could be really useful.
But if the boar companion can take aggro and absorb a lot of damage, that will probably be better.
In general I really like this idea, I think I will try this out for sure.