Hey guys, I did a 70 with Hungering Arrow as the primary source of damage. The way the build works is it uses the skill Hungering Arrow: Devouring Arrow to deal increasing amounts of damage with every hit. I use the Buriza Do-Kyannon and the Ninth Cirri Satchel to increase my pieces, thus increasing my damage. After extensive testing, I found that this was the strongest version of the build.
I hope this proves that you can play however you want and still be successful if you come up with a good idea on how to play a build. Many people said it couldn't be done but I proved them wrong.
Small questions (as i wanted to try a similar build and i shared my d3planner in other posts):
- no Vengeance? Swapping Etrayu to Dawn and using venegance instead of MfD brough my damage and toughness up but quite a bunch.
- i'd try EW set too - this way i can equip CoE and use RoRG in cube, letting me equip either DD or Aquila for the same damage and additional free toughness.
I don't know how you cleared level 70. I tried this build, and it took almost 14 minutes to clear level 55. The build I'm using did it in 7 minutes. And you're giving up a lot of damage by not using dead mans legacy. I also don't know why you're using etrayu instead of Yangs.recurve. I question the use of some of your passives too. I'm also wondering how you survived without unity. Just my opinion.
I don't know how you cleared level 70. I tried this build, and it took almost 14 minutes to clear level 55. The build I'm using did it in 7 minutes. And you're giving up a lot of damage by not using dead mans legacy. I also don't know why you're using etrayu instead of Yangs.recurve. I question the use of some of your passives too. I'm also wondering how you survived without unity. Just my opinion.
The build is about maxing DA damage - so both Yang and DML are useless because they increase MS damage.
Also another thing: with UE damage x Disc bonus being doubled next patch, are SoJ/Manald becoming viable options? Worth trying them, but afaik they're additive while F/R and EW are multiplicative.
I don't know how you cleared level 70. I tried this build, and it took almost 14 minutes to clear level 55. The build I'm using did it in 7 minutes. And you're giving up a lot of damage by not using dead mans legacy. I also don't know why you're using etrayu instead of Yangs.recurve. I question the use of some of your passives too. I'm also wondering how you survived without unity. Just my opinion.
The build is about maxing DA damage - so both Yang and DML are useless because they increase MS damage.
Also another thing: with UE damage x Disc bonus being doubled next patch, are SoJ/Manald becoming viable options? Worth trying them, but afaik they're additive while F/R and EW are multiplicative.
I took your advice and did some pretty extensive testing. My first test was to exchange EW and a CoE into place of the Bastions of Will and Hellfire. I also switched my Etrayu into a Dawn. My first choice to swap was gloves into Frostburns, for the additional cold damage.
My first results were very promising. I cleared a 70 with ease, leaving over 2 minutes remaining. Next I swapped the gloves and turned them back to regular gloves, and I tried using a SoJ. I also had the idea to test it out and I was curious how it would perform. It did similarly, and I realized after this run I should probably stop using the Multishot.
I swapped it around so I was using Marked for Death, and swapped passives so I was using Ambush instead of Numbing Traps. I was concerned I might have survival issues, but I didn't have any and the level 70 rift I ran seemed to be the strongest. I thought it would be a good idea to try to see how this build would perform at a higher rift. I took it and in one try I completed a 73 in exactly 12 minutes, putting me at spot 843 on the PTR leaderboards. I then ran a 73 with the same build, except with BoW and Hellfire instead of EW and SoJ, and it disappointed me. I had only 1 minute remaining instead of three by the time I killed the boss.
I think that for this build, a cold SoJ is actually very, very strong. I did a couple more runs messing around with skills and every single one of them was quite easy to clear (all on 70), I usually had over 4 minutes remaining, and my record was actually 9 minutes and 20 seconds for a solo 70. Very promising results for such an odd build. The exact items and skills I used I put into a D3Planner build right here:
Unfortunately, I have a low roll on my cooldown on my dawn, so I don't have 100% uptime on vengeance. Furthermore, I unfortunately lose a lot of area damage seeking out more CDR for the build.
The other thing worth noting is that elite packs and the rift guardian just drop against this build. If I could fight only elite packs, this build could probably clear an 80. It's absolutely nuts how quickly elites and the rift boss die.
It is worth noting that between my runs yesterday and today, I have augmented my gear giving me about 1.5k additional dexterity, which probably helped me get these results.
All in all, your suggestions made a pretty significant difference. I honestly believe this version is the strongest that has been developed. I'm curious if a M6 build could be stronger if using the EW set and CoE ring, then using RoRG and something else. I'd have to test that out. However as it currently stands, I'm very proud of completing a 73 with the build.
I forgot to record some of the 73 I completed, but I'm uploading the remaining 8 minutes I did get after I remembered to hit record. I'll post that here when it's finished uploading.
I also think it's interesting to note that I have VERY good copies of the EW set. They're in my non-season stash and I've had them for as long as I can remember. Very old items.
The gameplay seems to have similarities with SM6. I believe it's worth trying impale as a spender to utilize F&R and equip Chain of Shadows to cope with the inferior AoE and skip trash with free vaults (which will also indirectly contribute to your dps via disc management) Not to mention impale has 100% proc coef. and works with Buriza as well. Nemesis Bracers would also be quite handy to spawn more elites. The extra attack speed from the Hunter's Wrath or a Lacuni Prowlers would complicate the Buriza internal cooldown issue anyway.
The gameplay seems to have similarities with SM6. I believe it's worth trying impale as a spender to utilize F&R and equip Chain of Shadows to cope with the inferior AoE and skip trash with free vaults (which will also indirectly contribute to your dps via disc management) Not to mention impale has 100% proc coef. and works with Buriza as well. Nemesis Bracers would also be quite handy to spawn more elites. The extra attack speed from the Hunter's Wrath or a Lacuni Prowlers would complicate the Buriza internal cooldown issue anyway.
I did some testing and yes, it does have an internal cooldown. This makes me think that if we could cube the Dawn and use the Buriza mainhand would make a big difference. This could lend an edge to an M6 version of the build as we can keep the attack speed low and below that ICD.
The main problem about Buriza with UE builds is; you can't roll max disc on it.
If you believe HA has enough damage boost to carry on to higher levels then the native secondary "7.5–10.0% Chance to Freeze on Hit" is also great addition along with higher base damage compared to Dawn.
The main problem about Buriza with UE builds is; you can't roll max disc on it.
If you believe HA has enough damage boost to carry on to higher levels then the native secondary "7.5–10.0% Chance to Freeze on Hit" is also great addition along with higher base damage compared to Dawn.
Yes I am aware. That's why I was talking about using it with M6 seeing as discipline isn't a factor with M6.
My first results were very promising. I cleared a 70 with ease, leaving over 2 minutes remaining. Next I swapped the gloves and turned them back to regular gloves, and I tried using a SoJ. I also had the idea to test it out and I was curious how it would perform. It did similarly, and I realized after this run I should probably stop using the Multishot.
Ok, very nice to hear.
Is toughness a problem? Since this build is all about DA, we could use a RoRG + Aquila combo that boosts it quite a bunch. I managaed to reach 93.5% dmg reduction, which is the same i can get with my S5 Crusader.
Point is that the latest nerfs in GR damage over 70 may be good for more offensive setups. Too bad we have not enough slots to make use of everything.
Also: i need to make some math around the 9th Cirri. The increased chance to pierce is nice, but keep in mind that i'ts after 2 pierces already from Buriza so the relative power is lowered by that. Maybe dual-wielding a Calamity for more damage (and maybe MS for CC and increased CHC) or even a nice Fortress Ballista (the shield is REALLY strong) can get us even higher.
Since you've a PTR char: can you try a RoRG+Frostburn cubed and BF in offhand? 15% as from dualwielding should be proccing more HA pierces, plus you can roll the +max Disc o the second xbow too that makes on par with SoJ.
I think it will be my build of choice. Planner here for reference - i choose grim reaper to help with AoE. http://ptr.d3planner.com/334729902
I would love to give it a shot but I don't actually have an Ancient Fortress Ballista. Still searching for one on my regular character. As for the ninth cirri and proc rates, I'm gonna do some testing with break points, buriza and the satchel to figure out the most optimal way to maximize pieces. Since each piece increases damage, I want to output the most arrows that piece the most times. That's what really does the insane damage. Not how hard they hit but how many times they pierce. I'll do some testing and see if I can figure out what setup causes the most pierces. However, it is worth noting something about the interaction between the Buriza and Hungering Arrow. Hungering Arrow pierces turn back on themselves to hit the same mob twice. Buriza pierces do not double back. Buriza is stronger for AoE, as they will only double back when HA itself procs. I am not 100% certain on this, but when I do my testing I'll figure out how it works and what is the most optimal setup. Again it sounds like with the catch on attack speed, it might be stronger to look at another set.
I would love to give it a shot but I don't actually have an Ancient Fortress Ballista. Still searching for one on my regular character. As for the ninth cirri and proc rates, I'm gonna do some testing with break points, buriza and the satchel to figure out the most optimal way to maximize pieces. Since each piece increases damage, I want to output the most arrows that piece the most times. That's what really does the insane damage. Not how hard they hit but how many times they pierce. I'll do some testing and see if I can figure out what setup causes the most pierces. However, it is worth noting something about the interaction between the Buriza and Hungering Arrow. Hungering Arrow pierces turn back on themselves to hit the same mob twice. Buriza pierces do not double back. Buriza is stronger for AoE, as they will only double back when HA itself procs. I am not 100% certain on this, but when I do my testing I'll figure out how it works and what is the most optimal setup. Again it sounds like with the catch on attack speed, it might be stronger to look at another set.
Nice to know. The ICD of Buriza is really what keeps this build back a lot.
Imho other runes worth thrying are the lightining one (splits in 3 for a really good aoe) and the last physical one (deals aoe on pierce) - but i don't think they would be really on par.
Assuming we use a Hunters Wrath (60% damage is too good to pass up), and a quiver with exactly 20% attack speed (worse case scenario), these are my results.
1.6 APS (1handed x-bow). I miss a pierce every other shot.
1.4 APS (2handed bow). I miss a pierce every third shot.
1.1 APS (2handed x-bow). I never miss a pierce.
1.17 APS (2handed x-bow with 6% attack speed). I get a weird pattern of pierces. I get a few, then miss a few, then get a bunch in a row. Inconsistent.
1.18 APS (2handed x-bow with 7% attack speed). Similar to 1.17, but with a few more misses.
It's probably possible to find an arrangement with the attack speed on the bow and a little bit less on the quiver to get the exact perfect rate. However, I think it's just fine to use a 1.1 APS x-bow, any quiver you want, and get every single buriza pierce. This lead me to the conclusion that with a high attack speed, Ninth Cirri Satchel>Buriza. However with a low attack speed, Buriza>Ninth Cirri Satchel.
I decided to put my theory to the test by running a few rifts with a setup of M6. On both builds, I had Buriza and Rucksack equipped, leaving the Dawn or Ninth Cirri Satchel to the cube. Then between tests, the only thing I changed was that cube slot. I also switched the skills I had from Marked for Death to Vengeance in correspondence.
I ran Ninth Cirri Satchel first, and it performed relatively well. However immediately after switching to Vengeance, I saw a significant increase in power. It is mandatory for this build. In an ideal world, I can run the Satchel, Dawn and Buriza, but one has to be given up, and it CANNOT be the dawn. This means that with M6, where we can equip a slow attack speed buriza, the best combination is Dawn, Rucksack and Buriza. With UE, the best combination is Dawn and Satchel. I don't know if there is going to be a better option than Buriza, but there might be. Especially since we're giving up the Buriza, we can stack an insanely high attack speed.
I ran the same build with different sets. Same F&R, Hellfire, etc. The only changes I made was Preparation/Sentry and Archery/Custom Engineering.
With the M6 Dawn build, I completed a 60 in about 5 minutes. With UE Dawn (no buriza, just dawn equipped and in cube). I took 10 minutes. It is definitely possible to run without a Buriza. I would want to try a few other versions of UE without dawn before giving it up though. It was disappointing running it without the Buriza in the cube. Because of how many options there are for this build, it seems pretty hard to figure out which one is the strongest.
Edit: It's worth noting that I felt a lot more tanky with the M6 set than with the UE set.
Would like to know whuch build/gear setup you ran with M6 - a d3planner link would be awesome. Nice find about the Satchel, i just assumed that 2 guaranteed pierces per shot were definitely best (as they actually are on paper) but the OCD makes them definitely worse.
I'm juggling with a UE dual wield build - i can switch the cube from Buriza to Satchel and see if it improves. Fortress ballista shields are freakin awesome.
No patch still on live, with current setup (low level gems, not even DD used as i don't have them) i can easily do 52 with consistent times (range from 7 to 10 mintues, because GR desntity is still a clusterfuck).
Want to try replacing F/R with EW (while keeping MS for aoe and slow/crit buff) and eithe cube or equip RoRG to use DD and Aquila, which helps with the low toughness. Likely to equip RoRG as to keep CoE in cube for max legendary effect.
Anyway, a UE Buriza/Satchel + cubed Dawn looks promising. Satchel increased chance to pierce is applied after the Buriza pierces, so the combo will work with no issues.
Right after I read post #13, I checked what I have in stash, and came up with an apparently working cold LON variation. Although I had all the necessary ancient pieces per slot, they were far from decent in terms of stats/rolls nor did they have any augments or proper enchants. I also had to substitute Simplicity's strength to BotP since I didn't have a levelled one.. Anyway, against all the odds, the build turned out insanely tough with decent damage output. The toughness level was so ridicilous that I barely needed to move in the middle of chaos only when too many stuff overlapped, so instead of using vault or SS, I only equipped an Illusory Boots, which worked like a charm. I also was able to stack around 75-80 AD on gear and this also worked great in crowds. The hardest thing was to keep the AS below 2.00. I was able to maintain around 1.6 AS with unridable AS on 1-2 slots.
Under these conditions I had struggled to complete a gr65 but I believe with everything optimized, it definitely has potential to clear tier 70, maybe even a few more..
I might add a video capture just to show the gameplay but don't expect much since I won't bother optimization on PTR ^^
Least of all I formed up a sketch build. Here it is for those who might want to play around. A few things might be shifted for more dps..
Ok, i tried cubing the Cirri instead of the Buriza for my dual wield setup and it's definitely much better. I've seen higher numbers overall and generally the damage is much more consistent than using Buriza.
I have also to try the said above Buriza/Cirri + cubed dawn setup and see if it performs better, though given the fast playstyle of UE dual wielding is more appealing for me.
My personal opinion after last experiments and some more thread research on previous attempts to asses and/or utilize HA/DA to gain supreme single target damage advantage (there are so many attempts and threads going way back to vanilla);
-Although Buriza may help the cause (even in its crippled current state), it is in fact a different variable, and it won't add up to HA/DA pierces but will rather have its separate internal CD bound rythm and both override eachother. The pierce from Buriza is directly related to the skill proc coefficiency (0.65 for DA). This is why it probably messes up things at certain AS tresholds.
-While Buriza pierces are likely to hitch the higher above the observed AS cap (~1.16), HA/DA seems to be affected in a positive way by the increase.
-Dropping off Buriza from the equation and going crazy on AS witin an UE setup might drastically improve HA/DA performance..
1.16 APS for the x-bow, plus 20% from the quiver and 30% from the belt. The actual attack speed "cap" for the Buriza piercing is higher, but for the sake of ease I was only replying with the APS of the weapon. In reality, 1.16*1.2*1.3= ~1.81 APS. Just for the sake of having all the variables. It's technically possible to have a 1 handed x-bow and be below whatever the cap is, simply by not equipping an offhand or the Hunter's Wrath. Now without Hunter's Wrath I fail to see the point, the 60% damage seems very good, so good it seems illogical to try it without it. However, this is going fantastic. I'm loving the feedback and testing everyone is doing to try to optimize this stuff. definitely fun to mess around with. Once the patch goes live, I'll likely test whatever we discover as the best versions of UE, M6 and LoN to attempt to find the best build. If we're looking to use RoRG and such, it might be interesting to equip depth diggers, dual wield Dawn and Fortress Ballista. Then we also get Aquila Curiass, a Hellfire, Frostburn or something. Maybe even cube Hunter's Wrath and equip an ancient Witching Hour. That would put our CD at ~580, possibly even to 600. 130%+130%+45%+45%+45%+45%+50%+90%=580%. Combine that with Single Out and you're looking at some pretty insane single target. Those crits are gonna hit hard and stack. Plus 40% cold, plus super high attack speed, etc. not to mention the added toughness we can equip. For helm we could even use a Mempo or Andarials for additional Attack Speed. I could see a version using LoN being pretty strong as well.
Hey guys, I did a 70 with Hungering Arrow as the primary source of damage. The way the build works is it uses the skill Hungering Arrow: Devouring Arrow to deal increasing amounts of damage with every hit. I use the Buriza Do-Kyannon and the Ninth Cirri Satchel to increase my pieces, thus increasing my damage. After extensive testing, I found that this was the strongest version of the build.
I put together a build guide here:
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/78352-hungering-arrow-2-4-1
A video of the rift here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsSXzGPXWwA
The exact build I used here:
http://ptr.d3planner.com/308491243
I hope this proves that you can play however you want and still be successful if you come up with a good idea on how to play a build. Many people said it couldn't be done but I proved them wrong.
Small questions (as i wanted to try a similar build and i shared my d3planner in other posts):
- no Vengeance? Swapping Etrayu to Dawn and using venegance instead of MfD brough my damage and toughness up but quite a bunch.
- i'd try EW set too - this way i can equip CoE and use RoRG in cube, letting me equip either DD or Aquila for the same damage and additional free toughness.
Anyway you tested it way more than me for sure
I don't know how you cleared level 70. I tried this build, and it took almost 14 minutes to clear level 55. The build I'm using did it in 7 minutes. And you're giving up a lot of damage by not using dead mans legacy. I also don't know why you're using etrayu instead of Yangs.recurve. I question the use of some of your passives too. I'm also wondering how you survived without unity. Just my opinion.
Also another thing: with UE damage x Disc bonus being doubled next patch, are SoJ/Manald becoming viable options? Worth trying them, but afaik they're additive while F/R and EW are multiplicative.
I took your advice and did some pretty extensive testing. My first test was to exchange EW and a CoE into place of the Bastions of Will and Hellfire. I also switched my Etrayu into a Dawn. My first choice to swap was gloves into Frostburns, for the additional cold damage.
My first results were very promising. I cleared a 70 with ease, leaving over 2 minutes remaining. Next I swapped the gloves and turned them back to regular gloves, and I tried using a SoJ. I also had the idea to test it out and I was curious how it would perform. It did similarly, and I realized after this run I should probably stop using the Multishot.
I swapped it around so I was using Marked for Death, and swapped passives so I was using Ambush instead of Numbing Traps. I was concerned I might have survival issues, but I didn't have any and the level 70 rift I ran seemed to be the strongest. I thought it would be a good idea to try to see how this build would perform at a higher rift. I took it and in one try I completed a 73 in exactly 12 minutes, putting me at spot 843 on the PTR leaderboards. I then ran a 73 with the same build, except with BoW and Hellfire instead of EW and SoJ, and it disappointed me. I had only 1 minute remaining instead of three by the time I killed the boss.
I think that for this build, a cold SoJ is actually very, very strong. I did a couple more runs messing around with skills and every single one of them was quite easy to clear (all on 70), I usually had over 4 minutes remaining, and my record was actually 9 minutes and 20 seconds for a solo 70. Very promising results for such an odd build. The exact items and skills I used I put into a D3Planner build right here:
http://ptr.d3planner.com/996357266
Unfortunately, I have a low roll on my cooldown on my dawn, so I don't have 100% uptime on vengeance. Furthermore, I unfortunately lose a lot of area damage seeking out more CDR for the build.
The other thing worth noting is that elite packs and the rift guardian just drop against this build. If I could fight only elite packs, this build could probably clear an 80. It's absolutely nuts how quickly elites and the rift boss die.
It is worth noting that between my runs yesterday and today, I have augmented my gear giving me about 1.5k additional dexterity, which probably helped me get these results.
All in all, your suggestions made a pretty significant difference. I honestly believe this version is the strongest that has been developed. I'm curious if a M6 build could be stronger if using the EW set and CoE ring, then using RoRG and something else. I'd have to test that out. However as it currently stands, I'm very proud of completing a 73 with the build.
I forgot to record some of the 73 I completed, but I'm uploading the remaining 8 minutes I did get after I remembered to hit record. I'll post that here when it's finished uploading.
I also think it's interesting to note that I have VERY good copies of the EW set. They're in my non-season stash and I've had them for as long as I can remember. Very old items.
Edit: Video finished upload. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuitT7_lniU&feature=youtu.be
The gameplay seems to have similarities with SM6. I believe it's worth trying impale as a spender to utilize F&R and equip Chain of Shadows to cope with the inferior AoE and skip trash with free vaults (which will also indirectly contribute to your dps via disc management) Not to mention impale has 100% proc coef. and works with Buriza as well. Nemesis Bracers would also be quite handy to spawn more elites. The extra attack speed from the Hunter's Wrath or a Lacuni Prowlers would complicate the Buriza internal cooldown issue anyway.
The main problem about Buriza with UE builds is; you can't roll max disc on it.
If you believe HA has enough damage boost to carry on to higher levels then the native secondary "7.5–10.0% Chance to Freeze on Hit" is also great addition along with higher base damage compared to Dawn.
Is toughness a problem? Since this build is all about DA, we could use a RoRG + Aquila combo that boosts it quite a bunch. I managaed to reach 93.5% dmg reduction, which is the same i can get with my S5 Crusader.
Point is that the latest nerfs in GR damage over 70 may be good for more offensive setups. Too bad we have not enough slots to make use of everything.
Also: i need to make some math around the 9th Cirri. The increased chance to pierce is nice, but keep in mind that i'ts after 2 pierces already from Buriza so the relative power is lowered by that. Maybe dual-wielding a Calamity for more damage (and maybe MS for CC and increased CHC) or even a nice Fortress Ballista (the shield is REALLY strong) can get us even higher.
Since you've a PTR char: can you try a RoRG+Frostburn cubed and BF in offhand? 15% as from dualwielding should be proccing more HA pierces, plus you can roll the +max Disc o the second xbow too that makes on par with SoJ.
I think it will be my build of choice. Planner here for reference - i choose grim reaper to help with AoE.
http://ptr.d3planner.com/334729902
I would love to give it a shot but I don't actually have an Ancient Fortress Ballista. Still searching for one on my regular character. As for the ninth cirri and proc rates, I'm gonna do some testing with break points, buriza and the satchel to figure out the most optimal way to maximize pieces. Since each piece increases damage, I want to output the most arrows that piece the most times. That's what really does the insane damage. Not how hard they hit but how many times they pierce. I'll do some testing and see if I can figure out what setup causes the most pierces. However, it is worth noting something about the interaction between the Buriza and Hungering Arrow. Hungering Arrow pierces turn back on themselves to hit the same mob twice. Buriza pierces do not double back. Buriza is stronger for AoE, as they will only double back when HA itself procs. I am not 100% certain on this, but when I do my testing I'll figure out how it works and what is the most optimal setup. Again it sounds like with the catch on attack speed, it might be stronger to look at another set.
Imho other runes worth thrying are the lightining one (splits in 3 for a really good aoe) and the last physical one (deals aoe on pierce) - but i don't think they would be really on par.
The results of my test:
Assuming we use a Hunters Wrath (60% damage is too good to pass up), and a quiver with exactly 20% attack speed (worse case scenario), these are my results.
1.6 APS (1handed x-bow). I miss a pierce every other shot.
1.4 APS (2handed bow). I miss a pierce every third shot.
1.1 APS (2handed x-bow). I never miss a pierce.
1.17 APS (2handed x-bow with 6% attack speed). I get a weird pattern of pierces. I get a few, then miss a few, then get a bunch in a row. Inconsistent.
1.18 APS (2handed x-bow with 7% attack speed). Similar to 1.17, but with a few more misses.
It's probably possible to find an arrangement with the attack speed on the bow and a little bit less on the quiver to get the exact perfect rate. However, I think it's just fine to use a 1.1 APS x-bow, any quiver you want, and get every single buriza pierce. This lead me to the conclusion that with a high attack speed, Ninth Cirri Satchel>Buriza. However with a low attack speed, Buriza>Ninth Cirri Satchel.
I decided to put my theory to the test by running a few rifts with a setup of M6. On both builds, I had Buriza and Rucksack equipped, leaving the Dawn or Ninth Cirri Satchel to the cube. Then between tests, the only thing I changed was that cube slot. I also switched the skills I had from Marked for Death to Vengeance in correspondence.
I ran Ninth Cirri Satchel first, and it performed relatively well. However immediately after switching to Vengeance, I saw a significant increase in power. It is mandatory for this build. In an ideal world, I can run the Satchel, Dawn and Buriza, but one has to be given up, and it CANNOT be the dawn. This means that with M6, where we can equip a slow attack speed buriza, the best combination is Dawn, Rucksack and Buriza. With UE, the best combination is Dawn and Satchel. I don't know if there is going to be a better option than Buriza, but there might be. Especially since we're giving up the Buriza, we can stack an insanely high attack speed.
I ran the same build with different sets. Same F&R, Hellfire, etc. The only changes I made was Preparation/Sentry and Archery/Custom Engineering.
With the M6 Dawn build, I completed a 60 in about 5 minutes. With UE Dawn (no buriza, just dawn equipped and in cube). I took 10 minutes. It is definitely possible to run without a Buriza. I would want to try a few other versions of UE without dawn before giving it up though. It was disappointing running it without the Buriza in the cube. Because of how many options there are for this build, it seems pretty hard to figure out which one is the strongest.
Edit: It's worth noting that I felt a lot more tanky with the M6 set than with the UE set.
Great post and definitely worth the read.
Would like to know whuch build/gear setup you ran with M6 - a d3planner link would be awesome. Nice find about the Satchel, i just assumed that 2 guaranteed pierces per shot were definitely best (as they actually are on paper) but the OCD makes them definitely worse.
I'm juggling with a UE dual wield build - i can switch the cube from Buriza to Satchel and see if it improves. Fortress ballista shields are freakin awesome.
No patch still on live, with current setup (low level gems, not even DD used as i don't have them) i can easily do 52 with consistent times (range from 7 to 10 mintues, because GR desntity is still a clusterfuck).
Want to try replacing F/R with EW (while keeping MS for aoe and slow/crit buff) and eithe cube or equip RoRG to use DD and Aquila, which helps with the low toughness. Likely to equip RoRG as to keep CoE in cube for max legendary effect.
Anyway, a UE Buriza/Satchel + cubed Dawn looks promising. Satchel increased chance to pierce is applied after the Buriza pierces, so the combo will work with no issues.
I had some time to kill on PTR today.
Right after I read post #13, I checked what I have in stash, and came up with an apparently working cold LON variation. Although I had all the necessary ancient pieces per slot, they were far from decent in terms of stats/rolls nor did they have any augments or proper enchants. I also had to substitute Simplicity's strength to BotP since I didn't have a levelled one.. Anyway, against all the odds, the build turned out insanely tough with decent damage output. The toughness level was so ridicilous that I barely needed to move in the middle of chaos only when too many stuff overlapped, so instead of using vault or SS, I only equipped an Illusory Boots, which worked like a charm. I also was able to stack around 75-80 AD on gear and this also worked great in crowds. The hardest thing was to keep the AS below 2.00. I was able to maintain around 1.6 AS with unridable AS on 1-2 slots.
Under these conditions I had struggled to complete a gr65 but I believe with everything optimized, it definitely has potential to clear tier 70, maybe even a few more..
I might add a video capture just to show the gameplay but don't expect much since I won't bother optimization on PTR ^^
Least of all I formed up a sketch build. Here it is for those who might want to play around. A few things might be shifted for more dps..
Buriza-Do Kya"LON" a solo GR test build
Ok, i tried cubing the Cirri instead of the Buriza for my dual wield setup and it's definitely much better. I've seen higher numbers overall and generally the damage is much more consistent than using Buriza.
I have also to try the said above Buriza/Cirri + cubed dawn setup and see if it performs better, though given the fast playstyle of UE dual wielding is more appealing for me.
It would probably be good to note my most recent runs were done on live. I realize I forgot to mention that.
My personal opinion after last experiments and some more thread research on previous attempts to asses and/or utilize HA/DA to gain supreme single target damage advantage (there are so many attempts and threads going way back to vanilla);
-Although Buriza may help the cause (even in its crippled current state), it is in fact a different variable, and it won't add up to HA/DA pierces but will rather have its separate internal CD bound rythm and both override eachother. The pierce from Buriza is directly related to the skill proc coefficiency (0.65 for DA). This is why it probably messes up things at certain AS tresholds.
-While Buriza pierces are likely to hitch the higher above the observed AS cap (~1.16), HA/DA seems to be affected in a positive way by the increase.
-Dropping off Buriza from the equation and going crazy on AS witin an UE setup might drastically improve HA/DA performance..
1.16 APS for the x-bow, plus 20% from the quiver and 30% from the belt. The actual attack speed "cap" for the Buriza piercing is higher, but for the sake of ease I was only replying with the APS of the weapon. In reality, 1.16*1.2*1.3= ~1.81 APS. Just for the sake of having all the variables. It's technically possible to have a 1 handed x-bow and be below whatever the cap is, simply by not equipping an offhand or the Hunter's Wrath. Now without Hunter's Wrath I fail to see the point, the 60% damage seems very good, so good it seems illogical to try it without it. However, this is going fantastic. I'm loving the feedback and testing everyone is doing to try to optimize this stuff. definitely fun to mess around with. Once the patch goes live, I'll likely test whatever we discover as the best versions of UE, M6 and LoN to attempt to find the best build. If we're looking to use RoRG and such, it might be interesting to equip depth diggers, dual wield Dawn and Fortress Ballista. Then we also get Aquila Curiass, a Hellfire, Frostburn or something. Maybe even cube Hunter's Wrath and equip an ancient Witching Hour. That would put our CD at ~580, possibly even to 600. 130%+130%+45%+45%+45%+45%+50%+90%=580%. Combine that with Single Out and you're looking at some pretty insane single target. Those crits are gonna hit hard and stack. Plus 40% cold, plus super high attack speed, etc. not to mention the added toughness we can equip. For helm we could even use a Mempo or Andarials for additional Attack Speed. I could see a version using LoN being pretty strong as well.
Thoughs?
Here's the d3planner link of the LON setup I ran on PTR;
http://ptr.d3planner.com/746878835