I believe they said they were looking into allowing Quivers to be equipped with melee weapons, so we'd be able to go with a melee/quiver combo, which would be odd, but better than SnB.
My main problem is I think this is the only set that so fundamentally changes the playstyle of a class, that you basically cannot use the playstyle before you have at least 2 (maybe 4) pieces of the set...
I mean... Look at Generator monks. You need Shenlong/2pc/SS to do viable damage, but it's possible to just run about hitting people with generators before then, you don't do amazing damage but you do ENOUGH. Or Shield Bash crusaders, you need Roland's if you're max level pushing Grifts, but you can level just fine without it.
For a melee DH, if you don't have that +1000% melee damage you're basically incapable of doing anything above normal :p.
I believe they said they were looking into allowing Quivers to be equipped with melee weapons, so we'd be able to go with a melee/quiver combo, which would be odd, but better than SnB.
My main problem is I think this is the only set that so fundamentally changes the playstyle of a class, that you basically cannot use the playstyle before you have at least 2 (maybe 4) pieces of the set...
I mean... Look at Generator monks. You need Shenlong/2pc/SS to do viable damage, but it's possible to just run about hitting people with generators before then, you don't do amazing damage but you do ENOUGH. Or Shield Bash crusaders, you need Roland's if you're max level pushing Grifts, but you can level just fine without it.
For a melee DH, if you don't have that +1000% melee damage you're basically incapable of doing anything above normal :p.
Isn't it like that for all skills though? The cliche Nat's spec would not work at all without the natalya's bonuses/crashing rain, and a typical multishot spec can hardly clear anything without UE's 6piece bonus. Doing a sentry and companion spec without marauders would be unbelievably weak.
The set doesn't change our playstyle at all really either. We don't have any true melee skills, our most melee skill is fan of knives and it has a 20 yard radius attached to it, everything else can be used at full range. Also, i really like the fact that you don't even need to use the 4 pc or 6pc, I think this is one of the best parts about the set. Just use a sword and S2 and then what ever other legendaries or sets you want. None of our other sets offer this.
S2 gives a damage boost big enough to make melee weapons viable.
The actual "issue" about using it in conjunction with other skills is that we have a very limited selection of skills that don't require a bow/xbow (i'm excluding discipline skills as they are a different thing) :
- bolas/grenade as generator
- impale/chakram as main spenders
- FoK/spike traps/sentries/Vengeance (the "devices" category)
Yes, we get a baseline 1000% damage increase. It's all about what we can put together and if we can get actually useful bonuses to work together. I have an idea already tbh, checking right now on d3planner if it can work.
EDIT: no, it's not possible to do what i'0ve pklanned because Marauder and Shadow sets share the same slots. Being the Marauder big multiplier a 6piece bonus, we cannot get it if we equip also Shadow set. Well played Blizz.
Just in case anything changes and they decide to add more pieces, here's the build i was thinking about.
S2 gives a damage boost big enough to make melee weapons viable.
The actual "issue" about using it in conjunction with other skills is that we have a very limited selection of skills that don't require a bow/xbow (i'm excluding discipline skills as they are a different thing) : - bolas/grenade as generator - impale/chakram as main spenders - FoK/spike traps/sentries/Vengeance (the "devices" category)
Yes, we get a baseline 1000% damage increase. It's all about what we can put together and if we can get actually useful bonuses to work together. I have an idea already tbh, checking right now on d3planner if it can work.
15/24 skills and 18/19 passives can be used with a melee weapon. 6 out of 12 spenders are available to us, we only miss out on the archery tree. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/19021722744#14
the only thing we lack is generator options really: 2/5 available
Shadow 6, Chain of Shadows, Karlai's Point and Holy Point Shot quiver
Cube:
Demon's Demise
Cindercoat
CoE
Gems:
Bane of the trapped
Zei's
Bane of the Stricken
I'll let DD deal constant AoE from sticky trap and I'll focus on Impale/Grim Reaper to add in more AoE/massive single target damage. BoTS, Kalei's, Grim Reaper and the 6pc bonus will also work well together, pure focus on one target.
Chakram sword, Chakram quiver and one of the daggers depending on which one turns out to be better. I'm curious about the gem setup - BotT is likely a must as it will be Stricken i suppose. Due to the focus on physical dmg Pain Enhancer coud be working, or Iceblink for additional crit chance (due to impale rune) and self-reliance on the slow.
EDIT: Single Out is actually an incredible skill for this Impale build. 25% more crit is a godsend on Guardians.
Chakram sword, Chakram quiver and one of the daggers depending on which one turns out to be better. I'm curious about the gem setup - BotT is likely a must as it will be Stricken i suppose. Due to the focus on physical dmg Pain Enhancer coud be working, or Iceblink for additional crit chance (due to impale rune) and self-reliance on the slow.
EDIT: Single Out is actually an incredible skill for this Impale build. 25% more crit is a godsend on Guardians.
Chak quiver, Chak sword and cubed Impale dagger could be really good, I actually forgot about even cubing the new weapons.
I was messing around with d3planner and saw the same thing from Single Out. Out of curiosity, how are you simulating the 1000% damage from S2?
Thrill of the Hunt - Enemies hit by your Hatred spenders are slowed by 80% for 2 seconds. (reworked from immobilizing enemies hit every 6 seconds).
You'll be giving up a passive skill slot, but that would make any hatred spending skill able to benefit from Cull the Weak and Bane of the Trapped. Pretty fucking cool!
Yes, this one is a really good change. I can see a lot of people getting this.
I'm also intrigued by the addition of CHilled status in Numbing Traps - coupled with Iceblink or other chilling abilities like Frost Arrow you get ont of the best defensive setups for DH.
Yeah, it will depend on where the most damage is coming out as Enforecr and T&T didn't contribute much anymore to the total damage.
HOWEVER.
10 pets with 400% increased damage is not bad at all, especially with 3 Wolves. Plus the damage bonus from Sentries and Vengeance (it now gives a 40% baseline).
Current rework shifted the damage from the Spender of choice to the fact we have the Sentries out that will deal also a decent amount of damage. Will be curious to try it.
EDIT: don't we forget this
P4_ItemPassive_Unique_Ring_038: You take {c_magic}[{VALUE1}*100|1|]% less damage for every Companion you have active.
This makes Garwulf both a damage and defence increase.
P4_ItemPassive_Unique_Ring_038: You take {c_magic}[{VALUE1}*100|1|]% less damage for every Companion you have active.
hmmm this might be most likely a new belt, less likely a bracer..
I wish they have added an extra useful affix like +AS, +rcr, etc. on all those defansive new items, because at some point we start to crave for evey little bit of dps increase we can gain without losing too much of the hard earned survivability features and stats..
First off is the 1000% damage boost for just having the 1 hander. Currently, this makes the bonus the strongest of the 2 piece bonuses, instantly boosting your damage into T6 range. Extremely easy to get, and bam - Instant T6 farming capabilities.
The 4 piece is decent, but imo it should swap spots with the 2 piece instead. It also allows Shadow to spend disp on Vault/Caltrops, ect.
Now, the 6 piece - Currently, its retardedly OP for single target damage. Impale is an extremely high single-target damage ability among Demon Hunters, not a single other hatred spender can come close to it. Combine this with the Grevious Wounds glyph, and you have a STUPID amount of single-target damage.
Impale - 750% baseline damage.
2 piece - 1000% increased damage. We are now at 75000% weapon damage for one Impale.
6 piece - 40000% increased damage on Impale. Thats a whopping 3 TRILLION % weapon damage for a single ability!
Grevious Wound - Crits are increased by 330%. Ok, so lets say you have... 300% extra crit damage (On the lower side imo). That 3 trillion % weapon damage becomes 9 trillion % on a crit (DHs have high crit!). Now thats increased 330% - 29.7% trillion damage multiplier, single crit.
Lets say you have 1 million baseline damage (Low side). One single hit will deal... 29700000000000000000000000 damage. Yes, Shadow will currently be capable of one-shotting high-ranked RGs in a single blow. To counter that, their AoE will be on the poorer side for DHs. Still, their AoE can be increased with both the Chakram stuff, and that one leg that increased FoK damage by 300%/second (Combined with the Lightning rune, thats a lot of AoE damage)
First off is the 1000% damage boost for just having the 1 hander. Currently, this makes the bonus the strongest of the 2 piece bonuses, instantly boosting your damage into T6 range. Extremely easy to get, and bam - Instant T6 farming capabilities.
The 4 piece is decent, but imo it should swap spots with the 2 piece instead. It also allows Shadow to spend disp on Vault/Caltrops, ect.
Now, the 6 piece - Currently, its retardedly OP for single target damage. Impale is an extremely high single-target damage ability among Demon Hunters, not a single other hatred spender can come close to it. Combine this with the Grevious Wounds glyph, and you have a STUPID amount of single-target damage.
Impale - 750% baseline damage.
2 piece - 1000% increased damage. We are now at 75000% weapon damage for one Impale.
6 piece - 40000% increased damage on Impale. Thats a whopping 3 TRILLION % weapon damage for a single ability!
Grevious Wound - Crits are increased by 330%. Ok, so lets say you have... 300% extra crit damage (On the lower side imo). That 3 trillion % weapon damage becomes 9 trillion % on a crit (DHs have high crit!). Now thats increased 330% - 29.7% trillion damage multiplier, single crit.
Lets say you have 1 million baseline damage (Low side). One single hit will deal... 29700000000000000000000000 damage. Yes, Shadow will currently be capable of one-shotting high-ranked RGs in a single blow. To counter that, their AoE will be on the poorer side for DHs. Still, their AoE can be increased with both the Chakram stuff, and that one leg that increased FoK damage by 300%/second (Combined with the Lightning rune, thats a lot of AoE damage)
Did I do my math right?
Grievous wounds isn't a multiplier it is quite literally crit hit damage. if you had 300% chd and then crit with grievous wounds it would be 630% chd in the damage calculation.
Impale will be really strong and should definitely be paired up with MfD-Grim Reaper and a lot of Area Damage.
it'd have to be tested in the PTR but I read the set as: Impales base skill damage will be 40,000% to the first monster hit and the 2 pc bonus would increase it by "x11" to be 440000% base skill damage. All monster hit by pierces or ricochets after the first hit would deal the usual 750% * 11 for 8250% base skill damage
I hope the new Legendary Cluster Arrow weapon going to have RCR.
This seems unlikely since M2 gives you bat companion to boost hatred. You are going to have to equip yangs for that. But maybe you can cube the new weapon affix.
Hrmm, so my calcs were off, but 440000% base skill damage is still top by a long shot. Shadow will have the absolute highest single-target damage of any build.
Ah, well. I'm looking forward to my tasty M6 build. BTW, Garwulf will provide only a 3% overall damage increase, even WITH the buff to companions. Did the math a while back to figure out whether I should cube Garwulf for my M6 build, its not a very large damage increase at all, both single target and AoE. (Most of your AoE will come from sentries+spender. The companion boost is a very large single target boost though, and makes T&T+Enforcer absolutely worth it. Now, if only you could have multi-element companions.) Main problem going into next patch with M6 is that there are now TOO many good items. With the weapon slot, there are now 3 legendary weapon slots you will absolutely need - Bombadier's (For the extra 2 sentries), Krider or Spins (Krider, imo, is best, but either will do), and the new hand-bow for the 60% reduced CD on Vengeance (Absolutely mandatory imo.). So pretty much you can't use neither Recurve nor the new Cluster Arrow x-bow. Anyone know where to go to post things? That vengeance hand-bow really should be bracers or something instead.
Reduces the Hatred cost of Cluster Arrow by {c_magic}[{VALUE1} * 100]%{c_magic}.
So it was "only" RCR, but still pretty good.
Also: Thrill of the Hunt - Enemies hit by your Hatred spenders are slowed by 80% for 2 seconds. (reworked from immobilizing enemies hit every 6 seconds).
You'll be giving up a passive skill slot, but that would make any hatred spending skill able to benefit from Cull the Weak and Bane of the Trapped. Pretty fucking cool!
Ugh can't they just remove some passives and work them into specific skillsets instead, so many passives that are a must which allows no choice or alternatives, at this point they may ass well remove all passives if they are just gonna force them anyway.
PTR live some guy linked dead man legacy with 91% multishot damage.
Season 4 i got gr60 13:14 which was pure luck gr60 as UE6 is a pain
Hmmm... My Melee DH (lets just call it what it is... Ninja :p) is shaping up pretty nicely.
In the cube:
Lord Greenstone's Fan, Dagger: Every second, gain 300% increased damage for your next Fan of Knives. Stacks up to 30 times.
Chain of Shadows, Belt: After using Impale, Vault costs no resource for 2 seconds.
Elusive Ring, Ring: After casting Shadow Power, Smoke Screen, or Vault, take 60% reduced damage for 8 seconds.
Then equiped:
The set obviously
Sword of Ill Will, Sword: Chakram deals 0.01 - 0.014*100% increased damage for every point of Hatred you have.
Chakram Quiver.
String of Ears, Belt: Reduces damage from melee attacks by 30%.
And then possibly
Vambraces of Sescheron, Bracers: Your primary skills heal you for X of your missing Life.
Combined with maybe 1 defensive Leg Gem (probably Esoteric Alteration) and perma power from the set bonus' and you should be reasonably sturdy, especially with vault spam.
Also... Has anyone else noticed that for a "Melee" build, you don't actually USE any melee skills... Chakram as your generator, Impale as your spender then SP, Vault, FoK and MfD. all ranged
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how do I delete posts? >.<
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
We can already hold 1hand melee + shield. Here's my retired Grim Sever DH:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/hero/3096708
I'm using Sever and Lidless Wall
So we can definitely do both ^.^
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
I believe they said they were looking into allowing Quivers to be equipped with melee weapons, so we'd be able to go with a melee/quiver combo, which would be odd, but better than SnB.
My main problem is I think this is the only set that so fundamentally changes the playstyle of a class, that you basically cannot use the playstyle before you have at least 2 (maybe 4) pieces of the set...
I mean... Look at Generator monks. You need Shenlong/2pc/SS to do viable damage, but it's possible to just run about hitting people with generators before then, you don't do amazing damage but you do ENOUGH. Or Shield Bash crusaders, you need Roland's if you're max level pushing Grifts, but you can level just fine without it.
For a melee DH, if you don't have that +1000% melee damage you're basically incapable of doing anything above normal :p.
Isn't it like that for all skills though? The cliche Nat's spec would not work at all without the natalya's bonuses/crashing rain, and a typical multishot spec can hardly clear anything without UE's 6piece bonus. Doing a sentry and companion spec without marauders would be unbelievably weak.
The set doesn't change our playstyle at all really either. We don't have any true melee skills, our most melee skill is fan of knives and it has a 20 yard radius attached to it, everything else can be used at full range. Also, i really like the fact that you don't even need to use the 4 pc or 6pc, I think this is one of the best parts about the set. Just use a sword and S2 and then what ever other legendaries or sets you want. None of our other sets offer this.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
I have an idea already tbh, checking right now on d3planner if it can work.http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/19021722744#14
the only thing we lack is generator options really: 2/5 available
I'm going to be messing around with:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WZSjhd!YciX!YZcbZa
Shadow 6, Chain of Shadows, Karlai's Point and Holy Point Shot quiver
Cube:
Demon's Demise
Cindercoat
CoE
Gems:
Bane of the trapped
Zei's
Bane of the Stricken
I'll let DD deal constant AoE from sticky trap and I'll focus on Impale/Grim Reaper to add in more AoE/massive single target damage. BoTS, Kalei's, Grim Reaper and the 6pc bonus will also work well together, pure focus on one target.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
I was thinking about this one http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#eZSjfd!YcZR!Zccbca
Chakram sword, Chakram quiver and one of the daggers depending on which one turns out to be better. I'm curious about the gem setup - BotT is likely a must as it will be Stricken i suppose. Due to the focus on physical dmg Pain Enhancer coud be working, or Iceblink for additional crit chance (due to impale rune) and self-reliance on the slow.
EDIT: Single Out is actually an incredible skill for this Impale build. 25% more crit is a godsend on Guardians.
I was messing around with d3planner and saw the same thing from Single Out. Out of curiosity, how are you simulating the 1000% damage from S2?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
Datamined 2.4 on fron page.
OH MY.
A lot of stuff i have to put my hands on now.
EDIT: i mean, Rapid Fire has no more a channeling cost. WHAT.
I'm also intrigued by the addition of CHilled status in Numbing Traps - coupled with Iceblink or other chilling abilities like Frost Arrow you get ont of the best defensive setups for DH.
The new mr6 increasing damage of each companion active by 400% means;
time to dust the enforcer gem, T&T, even Garwulf's cloak!
Yeah, it will depend on where the most damage is coming out as Enforecr and T&T didn't contribute much anymore to the total damage.
HOWEVER.
10 pets with 400% increased damage is not bad at all, especially with 3 Wolves. Plus the damage bonus from Sentries and Vengeance (it now gives a 40% baseline).
Current rework shifted the damage from the Spender of choice to the fact we have the Sentries out that will deal also a decent amount of damage. Will be curious to try it.
EDIT: don't we forget this
This makes Garwulf both a damage and defence increase.
I wish they have added an extra useful affix like +AS, +rcr, etc. on all those defansive new items, because at some point we start to crave for evey little bit of dps increase we can gain without losing too much of the hard earned survivability features and stats..
So Shadow Mantle is looking incredibly strong.
First off is the 1000% damage boost for just having the 1 hander. Currently, this makes the bonus the strongest of the 2 piece bonuses, instantly boosting your damage into T6 range. Extremely easy to get, and bam - Instant T6 farming capabilities.
The 4 piece is decent, but imo it should swap spots with the 2 piece instead. It also allows Shadow to spend disp on Vault/Caltrops, ect.
Now, the 6 piece - Currently, its retardedly OP for single target damage. Impale is an extremely high single-target damage ability among Demon Hunters, not a single other hatred spender can come close to it. Combine this with the Grevious Wounds glyph, and you have a STUPID amount of single-target damage.
Impale - 750% baseline damage.
2 piece - 1000% increased damage. We are now at 75000% weapon damage for one Impale.
6 piece - 40000% increased damage on Impale. Thats a whopping 3 TRILLION % weapon damage for a single ability!
Grevious Wound - Crits are increased by 330%. Ok, so lets say you have... 300% extra crit damage (On the lower side imo). That 3 trillion % weapon damage becomes 9 trillion % on a crit (DHs have high crit!). Now thats increased 330% - 29.7% trillion damage multiplier, single crit.
Lets say you have 1 million baseline damage (Low side). One single hit will deal... 29700000000000000000000000 damage. Yes, Shadow will currently be capable of one-shotting high-ranked RGs in a single blow. To counter that, their AoE will be on the poorer side for DHs. Still, their AoE can be increased with both the Chakram stuff, and that one leg that increased FoK damage by 300%/second (Combined with the Lightning rune, thats a lot of AoE damage)
Did I do my math right?
Grievous wounds isn't a multiplier it is quite literally crit hit damage. if you had 300% chd and then crit with grievous wounds it would be 630% chd in the damage calculation.
Impale will be really strong and should definitely be paired up with MfD-Grim Reaper and a lot of Area Damage.
it'd have to be tested in the PTR but I read the set as: Impales base skill damage will be 40,000% to the first monster hit and the 2 pc bonus would increase it by "x11" to be 440000% base skill damage. All monster hit by pierces or ricochets after the first hit would deal the usual 750% * 11 for 8250% base skill damage
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
Hrmm, so my calcs were off, but 440000% base skill damage is still top by a long shot. Shadow will have the absolute highest single-target damage of any build.
Ah, well. I'm looking forward to my tasty M6 build. BTW, Garwulf will provide only a 3% overall damage increase, even WITH the buff to companions. Did the math a while back to figure out whether I should cube Garwulf for my M6 build, its not a very large damage increase at all, both single target and AoE. (Most of your AoE will come from sentries+spender. The companion boost is a very large single target boost though, and makes T&T+Enforcer absolutely worth it. Now, if only you could have multi-element companions.) Main problem going into next patch with M6 is that there are now TOO many good items. With the weapon slot, there are now 3 legendary weapon slots you will absolutely need - Bombadier's (For the extra 2 sentries), Krider or Spins (Krider, imo, is best, but either will do), and the new hand-bow for the 60% reduced CD on Vengeance (Absolutely mandatory imo.). So pretty much you can't use neither Recurve nor the new Cluster Arrow x-bow. Anyone know where to go to post things? That vengeance hand-bow really should be bracers or something instead.
Ugh can't they just remove some passives and work them into specific skillsets instead, so many passives that are a must which allows no choice or alternatives, at this point they may ass well remove all passives if they are just gonna force them anyway.
PTR live some guy linked dead man legacy with 91% multishot damage.
Season 4 i got gr60 13:14 which was pure luck gr60 as UE6 is a pain
on ptr i did gr64 now 13:42
Hmmm... My Melee DH (lets just call it what it is... Ninja :p) is shaping up pretty nicely.
In the cube:
Lord Greenstone's Fan, Dagger: Every second, gain 300% increased damage for your next Fan of Knives. Stacks up to 30 times.
Chain of Shadows, Belt: After using Impale, Vault costs no resource for 2 seconds.
Elusive Ring, Ring: After casting Shadow Power, Smoke Screen, or Vault, take 60% reduced damage for 8 seconds.
Then equiped:
The set obviously
Sword of Ill Will, Sword: Chakram deals 0.01 - 0.014*100% increased damage for every point of Hatred you have.
Chakram Quiver.
String of Ears, Belt: Reduces damage from melee attacks by 30%.
And then possibly
Vambraces of Sescheron, Bracers: Your primary skills heal you for X of your missing Life.
Combined with maybe 1 defensive Leg Gem (probably Esoteric Alteration) and perma power from the set bonus' and you should be reasonably sturdy, especially with vault spam.
Also... Has anyone else noticed that for a "Melee" build, you don't actually USE any melee skills... Chakram as your generator, Impale as your spender then SP, Vault, FoK and MfD. all ranged