What I'm looking at is the 2-piece bonus. Every time you cast a generator, generate 2 discipline as well. Now you might be thinking that "of course this is broken, just stack attack speed and you have infinite discipline". Now I'm here to tell you why you're only half right.
First off, lets assume we have infinite discipline. What is the best spell to cast? Well, if we can stack 52% cooldown reduction, we can cast smoke screen indefinitely. Time for math. The formula for cooldown reduction is as follows. Skill*(1-CDR%)*(1-CRD%)... So lets assume 15% from Gogok, 10% from Paragon, 12.5% from Diamond in helm, 10% on weapon, 8% on shoulders, 8% on gloves and 8% on a ring, that looks like 3*(.85)*(.9)*(.875)*(.9)*(.92)*(.92)*(.92)=1.407 seconds. Or 53.09% cooldown reduction. Assuming infinite discipline of course.
Now we don't have infinite discipline. Not even close. But lets do some math on smoke screen cost. It costs 14 discipline to cast smoke screen for 1.5 seconds. Now the same formula from above can be applied to smoke screen cost reduction. We have 8% on shoulders, 10% on offhand, 10% from paragon and 30% from a Pride's Fall. 14*(.92)*(.9)*(.9)*(.70)=7.302 discipline spent per cast. But we want to know how much discipline we need per second. Now since 7.302 is the cost for 1.5 seconds, 66% of that is the cost for 1 second. The result is 4.8 discipline per second.
By default, we gain 1 discipline per second. Preparation+Focused mind gives 45 discipline over 15 seconds, or 3 discipline per second. With our 53% percent cooldown reduction, we have 6.11 seconds when we do not have 3 additional discipline per second. That means that over 21.11 seconds (time of Preparation cooldown), we have a total of 45 gained discipline from Preparation and 21 from default regen equaling 66 total discipline. However, the cost of maintaining 100% uptime on Smoke Screen is 4.8 discipline per second*21.11 seconds for a period. This cost is 101.328 total discipline. As we can see, we are at a net loss of 35.328 discipline over that 21.11 seconds.
So how much discipline does one have to generate from this set to be at a net gain you might ask? How many attacks per second? Since we need 35.328 discipline from X attacks over 21.11 seconds, our mathematical formula would look like this. X=35.328/21.11 and viola, we'd have our required attacks per second. But because this set generates 2 discipline per attack, we have to divide our answer by 2 in order to get the actual number of required attacks per second. So in order to maintain infinite smoke screen, we have to attack .83 times per second. There is no weapon in the game that wouldn't give you infinite smoke screen with this build. Not only that, but because you have so much discipline, the 6-set bonus gives you 10% additional damage for every point of dex. If you use a nats 3-piece, plus 10 possible max discipline on the bow, those two items would give you a 300% damage increase.
Now. What would be optimized for this build? Obviously we don't need to reduce the cost so drastically. Let's imagine a realistic set of gear. 7% attack speed on your Witching Hour, 20% on your quiver, 7% on your Ring of Royal Grandeur (required stat on the ring) and 10% on paragon, plus a base of a 1-handed crossbow for the nats 3-piece for the added discipline. That's a 44% increase in attack speed on a base of 1.6 APS. Total APS is 2.304. Now we know we get 2 discipline per attack, so let's begin to work backwards. That's a rate of 4.608 discipline per second or 97.244 discipline per 21.11 seconds. Plus our known 66 discipline over that time frame from our preparation and base regen is a total of 163.274 discipline over 21.11 seconds. This new number is 7.73 discipline per second. The base cost of Smoke Screen is 14 for 1.5 seconds, or 9.24 for 1 second. This means we need a total resource cost reduction of about 17%. Conveniently enough, 10% on paragon and 8% on shoulders is exactly enough to give us 17.2%. Now obviously we don't need to use Pride's Fall for the RCR any further. This gives us the option to use Leoric's Crown and remove cooldown from our gear to get to the same amount.
With these new stats, 10% on weapon/offhand, 8% on shoulders, 15% from gogok, 10% from paragon, 25% on helm and 8% on shoulders gives us the CDR needed to sustain infinite smoke screen once again.
I can imagine two builds coming from this set. One being a multishot build, the other being a generator build. Seeing as I think multishot will be more common, here is the supposed gearing for such a character.
In summary, with this new set, your gear would look like this: Shoulders: New shoulders with 8% CDR and RCR, Dex, Vit. Helm: Leorics Crown with 90%, Crit Chance, Multishot Damage Amulet: Preferably Hellfire/Flavor of Time. Crit Damage, Crit Chance, Socket, %Elemental/Dex (If you have a Flavor of Time, you have included CDR, which can change other stat priorities) Gloves: Set Gloves, 8% CDR, Crit Chance, Crit Damage, Dex Chest: Sockets, Dex, Vit, All-resistance (if the new chest is a cloak, get max Discipline as well) Bracers: Reapers Wraps. 20% Elemental Damage, Crit Chance, Dex, Vit. Ring 1: Natalya's Ring with 8% CDR, Socket, Crit Damage, Dex. Ring 2: RoRG, 7% AS, Socket, Dex, Crit Damage. Belt: Witching Hour with 7% attack speed, Crit Damage, Dex, Vit. Pants: Set Pants, Sockets, Dex, Vit, All-resistance Boots: Dex, Multishot Damage, Vit, All-resistance. Weapon: Natalya's Weapon. %Damage, Dex, 10% CDR, Socket. Offhand: Holy Point Shoot. 20% Attack Speed, Crit Chance, 20% Elemental, Multishot Damage, Dex, Max Discipline.
Obviously our multishot's will do an absolutely insane amount of damage at this point. And as an upside, we cannot take damage. Let alone die. Ever. So let me know what you guys think, and if there is any flaws in my math, let me know.
Imagining that this build is as powerful as conceived, they will nerf anything like this. Personally, what I want is a build that functions off of having a high quantity of discipline. Then having it boost the damage of generator skills. We can use Hungering Arrow with The Ninth Cirri Satchell to increase the chance of piercing, then a Buriza-Do Kyanon to increase piercing to three times, combined with Devouring Arrow to have it deal 70% more damage each pierce. We could also use Simplicity's Strength and Depth Diggers to have some crazy bonus damage. Just a thought of something that'd be kinda fun to play with. Let me know what you all think of the new set, whether or not blizzard will nerf it, and what you want to see it be capable of doing.
For the most part, I was intending this to fuel a discussion on the new set. Since its gonna be changed, what do you guys want to see become viable with the new set? I briefly spoke about my interests in a Hungering Arrow build. What do you all think would be fun to play with?
SS assumptions are not correct since you will want to keep each and every point of discipline to buff your damage output, and in fact "this" is what this set sounds to be broken about with its preliminary state. Finally a new and strong mechanics for disc regen, but in the end you would still be shy from using any disciplinary skill just to keep your damage buff from 6pc high.
Pretty sure it worked based on current disc in the Blizzcon build However, i do see them changing that because it totally discourages the use of disc skills and could lead into "unwanted" style of gameplay from the dev's point of view.
Good job on the calculations and all but i think it's a tad bit too early for this level of in depth analysis because as others have pointed out, all of the specifics are subject to change and imo the probability that this set will be significantly different than what it was when it was first shown at Blizzcon is very high.
The set is still underwhelming as is. it's like a glorified bouldertoss build of some sort while using an already regularly used skill in multishot.
rapidfire, strafe, traps are still forgotten.
My thoughts: Nice post, it mostly corresponds to my math so far, but it's unnecessary at this point nevertheless. Natalya is going to change, very likely the discipline bonus will be gone. Also, this set is very likely going to change as well, the discipline bonus was conceived before they changed Night Stalker, I strongly doubt they will add this on live. Also, if they did, I do not think it would encourage bad gameplay by not letting you spend any discipline - having to strike a balance between offense and defense is exactly what would add a lot of depth to DH gameplay, as right now it is only offense.
A new set can't be inferior to what we have in hand by its nature. We have to let go of the MR6 focussed mind set and be open to new changes, it will eventually be outdated. Devs will make sure that Marauder set will be less powerful in some way..
Lol, no. It works just like Barbarian's HoTa (1% Critical chance for 5 fury you have). It's based on fury you actually have not the max value.
It is written just exactly the same in New DH set so it probably works the same. 10% for each discipline you actually have,.
Well then, let me quote Nevalistis:
"Preparation (Punishment) was creating less than ideal gameplay by encouraging the conversion of Discipline to direct DPS. The byproduct of this was Demon Hunters frequently finding themselves without their defensive or utility skills, often resulting in more frequent character death."
This new set encourages just that. While i agree with wudijo that striking a balance between offense and defense would add alot of depth, unless the entire meta of the game changes, the set as it is is inferior to M6 and will most likely not be used for anything serious.
Blizzard's problem wasn't with Discipline interacting with DPS, but with the conversion of Discipline to DPS. It required spending a defensive resource to gain offensive ability. This set doesn't encourage or require that. While you do gain DPS from simply having Discipline, it doesn't affect the availability of the resource for defensive abilities.
Whether this set is overpowered compared to Marauder or not, I will definitely play it at least for a while - simply because I'm damn tired of m6. Likewise, I will play Opus on wizard because I'm tired of firebird.
Back on topic, as far as I know, the set works off the discipline you currently have. Which might create an interesting situation where you lose damage where you need it the most (a very bad pack - you spend discipline to stay alive and lose damage needed to put it down quickly).
Either way, if my calculations aren't all that wrong, you can get +66 discipline from items and another +15 from preparation. that will net you a total 1110% extra damage that you always carry with you. While this loses to Bombardier Rucksack M6, it will be on about the same level with other setups. With added bonus of granting increased survivability...
Lol, no. It works just like Barbarian's HoTa (1% Critical chance for 5 fury you have). It's based on fury you actually have not the max value.
It is written just exactly the same in New DH set so it probably works the same. 10% for each discipline you actually have,.
Well then, let me quote Nevalistis:
"Preparation (Punishment) was creating less than ideal gameplay by encouraging the conversion of Discipline to direct DPS. The byproduct of this was Demon Hunters frequently finding themselves without their defensive or utility skills, often resulting in more frequent character death."
This new set encourages just that. While i agree with wudijo that striking a balance between offense and defense would add alot of depth, unless the entire meta of the game changes, the set as it is is inferior to M6 and will most likely not be used for anything serious.
Blizzard's problem wasn't with Discipline interacting with DPS, but with the conversion of Discipline to DPS. It required spending a defensive resource to gain offensive ability. This set doesn't encourage or require that. While you do gain DPS from simply having Discipline, it doesn't affect the availability of the resource for defensive abilities.
Less disc = less deeps = not using disc abilities for max deeps. It's the exact same concept, just spun in a different way.
I appreciate your point but disagree. If you take a snapshot of a moment they look the same: I need to be defensive -> I use discipline to be defensive -> I lose DPS due to a lack of discipline. The difference comes in the moments before and after that snapshot. The baseline environment with the new set is max discipline. Max discipline also provides max defensive readiness. That moment, where you go defensive, is always available to you because discipline is always available to you. The old way's baseline environment was reduced readiness as it consistently reduced your available pool of discipline. You had reduced discipline and reduced defensive readiness.
You could say they're the same thing, and I can absolutely understand that perspective. To do max DPS you had to not use defensive abilities. To do max DPS with the new set, you have to not use defensive abilities. That's a narrow look at a much bigger picture, I think. You didn't use defensive abilities with the old set because you couldn't, or your ability to was severely limited. If you needed to be defensive, you had to plan for it in advance, doing reduced DPS during that entire time. With the new set you choose not to use defensive abilities, but the ability to do so remains. You retain max DPS while also retaining max defensive capabilities.
I guess the difference comes down to a reactive vs proactive defensive environment.
Play with F/R, Krider, and MBolts. Phil just got gr 51 down with fairly suboptimal gear.
That said, the build is stupid fast in t6 as MS:A with Cindercoat, but really struggles in 40+. Maybe if I get lucky and nab a Ancient Calamity, I can push higher, but I'm pretty stuck at the moment. Phys M6 is just soooo much easier to play.
I don't see them buffing this set much beyond where it is now. If you do it right you get 1130% damage to your Multishot. My multishot crits for up to 300 million with full disc set up, additionally it hits twice when the target is below 60% hp if you have DML (600 million dmg crits). Looking at the dps side by side I'm really not seeing M6 so far ahead like people are saying. Do the math, 5 turrets out gives you 500% increased damage to your own personal spender, then each one of those turrets is worth 1 of you in essence so another 500% dmg per turret. Napkin math of 1000% dmg. So in a side by side comparison Unhallowed actually pulls ahead when using multishot and there is zero ramp up time or management to worry about, you gain 40% damage reduction, and unlimited Discipline.
Multishot has some damn nice DPRS, which yes its burst is lower but is sustained damage is higher than cluster arrow in any iteration, which doesn't mean shit at GR 40, but if your playing in a group pushing 50+ sustained becomes important. With enough RCR a generator is almost not necessary, and because of the nature of the build and having unlimited disc, you can use caltrops with jagged spikes....this is essentially free damage(even more so if the caltrops belt drops whichever rune your using) you just vault around dropping caltrops everywhere then draw the mobs back to you through your mine field. Or if your brave just vault through the enemy dropping clatrops everywhere then get into a solid position and start unloading multishots.
Its still to early an iteration to tell yet with this set but mathematically speaking in a side by side comparison they should be damn close.
Considering the design of the set, I am worried about something : Pre-2.1 SoJ with +Discipline on it will likely be best in slot... But it's not droppable anymore so some people will have better overall DPS considering more discipline than others... Maybe just bring back the +Resource on SoJ ? It was not especially a mandatory and OP secondary affix but with this new set, it may become a real problem.
Well, the pre 2.1 soj will be "just" another 100%, which from 900% -> to 1000% dmg. increase must in the end be counted as a 100% additive dmg., which isn't game changing at that stage, but rather absolute min - maxing.
That's the problem, the endgame is all about this 100% free additive dmg. It is not normal if some gear that is not obtainable anymore is the absolute BiS, just like legacy gear for Zdog actually. That was a concern developped by developers in live chat about Zdog gear, now the problem will be the same with pre-2.1 SoJ with Discipline for DH it seems.
for everyone telling him to calm the fuck downbc its only ptr: blizzard is looking for this kind of detailed feedback. guys like this who theorycraft heavily find the broken shit we dont want in the live servers.
OnT: i see how perma-smokescreen would be kinda bad designwise, but im not sure how the damage would compare to M6. seems pretty leacking on first impression to me.
I for sure love this set way more over M6 which is boring gameplay.
What aspect of it did you like really? I also had been able to try it all night and the end result was one button mashing (MS) to me. You do not even need to manage anything at all which is way beyond boring. Although I'm not a big fan of Marauder set, sentries at least added a little variety.
Edit: After several attempts in greater rifts I can state that this set brings serious survivability issues along with juicy MS. 4 set bonus needs serious re-work..
Here are some variations I thought might work to make this set better.
2p Generators gen 1 Discipline, also Gain 1 discipline for each enemy hit by MS.
(Possible 4p bonuses 1-3)
4p 1.Reduce MS Cost,
2. While at full Discipline gain dmg reduction based on half your max discipline, would work well with 2p,
3. Increase max discipline by 30 or 60 points. would give more to spend and more dmg while at max. you could still use Natas 2p with rorg or not giving more options in the build.
Could also combine 2 and 3 make discipline increase by 30 or 60 and give dmg reduction based on half of total discipline while at max discipline.
6p Can stay as is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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If you don't know, here is a link to the set. I don't know how to turn it into an image, so I apologize.
http://diablo.incgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/set-unhallowed-essence.png
What I'm looking at is the 2-piece bonus. Every time you cast a generator, generate 2 discipline as well. Now you might be thinking that "of course this is broken, just stack attack speed and you have infinite discipline". Now I'm here to tell you why you're only half right.
First off, lets assume we have infinite discipline. What is the best spell to cast? Well, if we can stack 52% cooldown reduction, we can cast smoke screen indefinitely. Time for math. The formula for cooldown reduction is as follows. Skill*(1-CDR%)*(1-CRD%)... So lets assume 15% from Gogok, 10% from Paragon, 12.5% from Diamond in helm, 10% on weapon, 8% on shoulders, 8% on gloves and 8% on a ring, that looks like 3*(.85)*(.9)*(.875)*(.9)*(.92)*(.92)*(.92)=1.407 seconds. Or 53.09% cooldown reduction. Assuming infinite discipline of course.
Now we don't have infinite discipline. Not even close. But lets do some math on smoke screen cost. It costs 14 discipline to cast smoke screen for 1.5 seconds. Now the same formula from above can be applied to smoke screen cost reduction. We have 8% on shoulders, 10% on offhand, 10% from paragon and 30% from a Pride's Fall. 14*(.92)*(.9)*(.9)*(.70)=7.302 discipline spent per cast. But we want to know how much discipline we need per second. Now since 7.302 is the cost for 1.5 seconds, 66% of that is the cost for 1 second. The result is 4.8 discipline per second.
By default, we gain 1 discipline per second. Preparation+Focused mind gives 45 discipline over 15 seconds, or 3 discipline per second. With our 53% percent cooldown reduction, we have 6.11 seconds when we do not have 3 additional discipline per second. That means that over 21.11 seconds (time of Preparation cooldown), we have a total of 45 gained discipline from Preparation and 21 from default regen equaling 66 total discipline. However, the cost of maintaining 100% uptime on Smoke Screen is 4.8 discipline per second*21.11 seconds for a period. This cost is 101.328 total discipline. As we can see, we are at a net loss of 35.328 discipline over that 21.11 seconds.
So how much discipline does one have to generate from this set to be at a net gain you might ask? How many attacks per second? Since we need 35.328 discipline from X attacks over 21.11 seconds, our mathematical formula would look like this. X=35.328/21.11 and viola, we'd have our required attacks per second. But because this set generates 2 discipline per attack, we have to divide our answer by 2 in order to get the actual number of required attacks per second. So in order to maintain infinite smoke screen, we have to attack .83 times per second. There is no weapon in the game that wouldn't give you infinite smoke screen with this build. Not only that, but because you have so much discipline, the 6-set bonus gives you 10% additional damage for every point of dex. If you use a nats 3-piece, plus 10 possible max discipline on the bow, those two items would give you a 300% damage increase.
Now. What would be optimized for this build? Obviously we don't need to reduce the cost so drastically. Let's imagine a realistic set of gear. 7% attack speed on your Witching Hour, 20% on your quiver, 7% on your Ring of Royal Grandeur (required stat on the ring) and 10% on paragon, plus a base of a 1-handed crossbow for the nats 3-piece for the added discipline. That's a 44% increase in attack speed on a base of 1.6 APS. Total APS is 2.304. Now we know we get 2 discipline per attack, so let's begin to work backwards. That's a rate of 4.608 discipline per second or 97.244 discipline per 21.11 seconds. Plus our known 66 discipline over that time frame from our preparation and base regen is a total of 163.274 discipline over 21.11 seconds. This new number is 7.73 discipline per second. The base cost of Smoke Screen is 14 for 1.5 seconds, or 9.24 for 1 second. This means we need a total resource cost reduction of about 17%. Conveniently enough, 10% on paragon and 8% on shoulders is exactly enough to give us 17.2%. Now obviously we don't need to use Pride's Fall for the RCR any further. This gives us the option to use Leoric's Crown and remove cooldown from our gear to get to the same amount.
With these new stats, 10% on weapon/offhand, 8% on shoulders, 15% from gogok, 10% from paragon, 25% on helm and 8% on shoulders gives us the CDR needed to sustain infinite smoke screen once again.
I can imagine two builds coming from this set. One being a multishot build, the other being a generator build. Seeing as I think multishot will be more common, here is the supposed gearing for such a character.
In summary, with this new set, your gear would look like this:
Shoulders: New shoulders with 8% CDR and RCR, Dex, Vit.
Helm: Leorics Crown with 90%, Crit Chance, Multishot Damage
Amulet: Preferably Hellfire/Flavor of Time. Crit Damage, Crit Chance, Socket, %Elemental/Dex (If you have a Flavor of Time, you have included CDR, which can change other stat priorities)
Gloves: Set Gloves, 8% CDR, Crit Chance, Crit Damage, Dex
Chest: Sockets, Dex, Vit, All-resistance (if the new chest is a cloak, get max Discipline as well)
Bracers: Reapers Wraps. 20% Elemental Damage, Crit Chance, Dex, Vit.
Ring 1: Natalya's Ring with 8% CDR, Socket, Crit Damage, Dex.
Ring 2: RoRG, 7% AS, Socket, Dex, Crit Damage.
Belt: Witching Hour with 7% attack speed, Crit Damage, Dex, Vit.
Pants: Set Pants, Sockets, Dex, Vit, All-resistance
Boots: Dex, Multishot Damage, Vit, All-resistance.
Weapon: Natalya's Weapon. %Damage, Dex, 10% CDR, Socket.
Offhand: Holy Point Shoot. 20% Attack Speed, Crit Chance, 20% Elemental, Multishot Damage, Dex, Max Discipline.
Obviously our multishot's will do an absolutely insane amount of damage at this point. And as an upside, we cannot take damage. Let alone die. Ever. So let me know what you guys think, and if there is any flaws in my math, let me know.
Imagining that this build is as powerful as conceived, they will nerf anything like this. Personally, what I want is a build that functions off of having a high quantity of discipline. Then having it boost the damage of generator skills. We can use Hungering Arrow with The Ninth Cirri Satchell to increase the chance of piercing, then a Buriza-Do Kyanon to increase piercing to three times, combined with Devouring Arrow to have it deal 70% more damage each pierce. We could also use Simplicity's Strength and Depth Diggers to have some crazy bonus damage. Just a thought of something that'd be kinda fun to play with.
Let me know what you all think of the new set, whether or not blizzard will nerf it, and what you want to see it be capable of doing.
For the most part, I was intending this to fuel a discussion on the new set. Since its gonna be changed, what do you guys want to see become viable with the new set? I briefly spoke about my interests in a Hungering Arrow build. What do you all think would be fun to play with?
SS assumptions are not correct since you will want to keep each and every point of discipline to buff your damage output, and in fact "this" is what this set sounds to be broken about with its preliminary state. Finally a new and strong mechanics for disc regen, but in the end you would still be shy from using any disciplinary skill just to keep your damage buff from 6pc high.
Pretty sure it worked based on current disc in the Blizzcon build However, i do see them changing that because it totally discourages the use of disc skills and could lead into "unwanted" style of gameplay from the dev's point of view.
Good job on the calculations and all but i think it's a tad bit too early for this level of in depth analysis because as others have pointed out, all of the specifics are subject to change and imo the probability that this set will be significantly different than what it was when it was first shown at Blizzcon is very high.
too much work for something very prone to change.
The set is still underwhelming as is. it's like a glorified bouldertoss build of some sort while using an already regularly used skill in multishot.
rapidfire, strafe, traps are still forgotten.
My thoughts: Nice post, it mostly corresponds to my math so far, but it's unnecessary at this point nevertheless. Natalya is going to change, very likely the discipline bonus will be gone. Also, this set is very likely going to change as well, the discipline bonus was conceived before they changed Night Stalker, I strongly doubt they will add this on live. Also, if they did, I do not think it would encourage bad gameplay by not letting you spend any discipline - having to strike a balance between offense and defense is exactly what would add a lot of depth to DH gameplay, as right now it is only offense.
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Those sets havent been confirmed anywhere and i can almost guarantee that they are changed
A new set can't be inferior to what we have in hand by its nature. We have to let go of the MR6 focussed mind set and be open to new changes, it will eventually be outdated. Devs will make sure that Marauder set will be less powerful in some way..
Blizzard's problem wasn't with Discipline interacting with DPS, but with the conversion of Discipline to DPS. It required spending a defensive resource to gain offensive ability. This set doesn't encourage or require that. While you do gain DPS from simply having Discipline, it doesn't affect the availability of the resource for defensive abilities.
Whether this set is overpowered compared to Marauder or not, I will definitely play it at least for a while - simply because I'm damn tired of m6. Likewise, I will play Opus on wizard because I'm tired of firebird.
Back on topic, as far as I know, the set works off the discipline you currently have. Which might create an interesting situation where you lose damage where you need it the most (a very bad pack - you spend discipline to stay alive and lose damage needed to put it down quickly).
Either way, if my calculations aren't all that wrong, you can get +66 discipline from items and another +15 from preparation. that will net you a total 1110% extra damage that you always carry with you. While this loses to Bombardier Rucksack M6, it will be on about the same level with other setups. With added bonus of granting increased survivability...
I'd love to see that. I want dual wielding to be useful and powerful.
I appreciate your point but disagree. If you take a snapshot of a moment they look the same: I need to be defensive -> I use discipline to be defensive -> I lose DPS due to a lack of discipline. The difference comes in the moments before and after that snapshot. The baseline environment with the new set is max discipline. Max discipline also provides max defensive readiness. That moment, where you go defensive, is always available to you because discipline is always available to you. The old way's baseline environment was reduced readiness as it consistently reduced your available pool of discipline. You had reduced discipline and reduced defensive readiness.
You could say they're the same thing, and I can absolutely understand that perspective. To do max DPS you had to not use defensive abilities. To do max DPS with the new set, you have to not use defensive abilities. That's a narrow look at a much bigger picture, I think. You didn't use defensive abilities with the old set because you couldn't, or your ability to was severely limited. If you needed to be defensive, you had to plan for it in advance, doing reduced DPS during that entire time. With the new set you choose not to use defensive abilities, but the ability to do so remains. You retain max DPS while also retaining max defensive capabilities.
I guess the difference comes down to a reactive vs proactive defensive environment.
Play with F/R, Krider, and MBolts. Phil just got gr 51 down with fairly suboptimal gear.
That said, the build is stupid fast in t6 as MS:A with Cindercoat, but really struggles in 40+. Maybe if I get lucky and nab a Ancient Calamity, I can push higher, but I'm pretty stuck at the moment. Phys M6 is just soooo much easier to play.
I don't see them buffing this set much beyond where it is now. If you do it right you get 1130% damage to your Multishot. My multishot crits for up to 300 million with full disc set up, additionally it hits twice when the target is below 60% hp if you have DML (600 million dmg crits). Looking at the dps side by side I'm really not seeing M6 so far ahead like people are saying. Do the math, 5 turrets out gives you 500% increased damage to your own personal spender, then each one of those turrets is worth 1 of you in essence so another 500% dmg per turret. Napkin math of 1000% dmg. So in a side by side comparison Unhallowed actually pulls ahead when using multishot and there is zero ramp up time or management to worry about, you gain 40% damage reduction, and unlimited Discipline.
Multishot has some damn nice DPRS, which yes its burst is lower but is sustained damage is higher than cluster arrow in any iteration, which doesn't mean shit at GR 40, but if your playing in a group pushing 50+ sustained becomes important. With enough RCR a generator is almost not necessary, and because of the nature of the build and having unlimited disc, you can use caltrops with jagged spikes....this is essentially free damage(even more so if the caltrops belt drops whichever rune your using) you just vault around dropping caltrops everywhere then draw the mobs back to you through your mine field. Or if your brave just vault through the enemy dropping clatrops everywhere then get into a solid position and start unloading multishots.
Its still to early an iteration to tell yet with this set but mathematically speaking in a side by side comparison they should be damn close.
Considering the design of the set, I am worried about something : Pre-2.1 SoJ with +Discipline on it will likely be best in slot... But it's not droppable anymore so some people will have better overall DPS considering more discipline than others... Maybe just bring back the +Resource on SoJ ? It was not especially a mandatory and OP secondary affix but with this new set, it may become a real problem.
That's the problem, the endgame is all about this 100% free additive dmg. It is not normal if some gear that is not obtainable anymore is the absolute BiS, just like legacy gear for Zdog actually. That was a concern developped by developers in live chat about Zdog gear, now the problem will be the same with pre-2.1 SoJ with Discipline for DH it seems.
for everyone telling him to calm the fuck downbc its only ptr: blizzard is looking for this kind of detailed feedback. guys like this who theorycraft heavily find the broken shit we dont want in the live servers.
OnT: i see how perma-smokescreen would be kinda bad designwise, but im not sure how the damage would compare to M6. seems pretty leacking on first impression to me.
nothing against you op, but thats very cute.
on the other hand.....
math. Ruining video games since
around the year 2000 when people started caring about it.... in games. the internet came out.What aspect of it did you like really? I also had been able to try it all night and the end result was one button mashing (MS) to me. You do not even need to manage anything at all which is way beyond boring. Although I'm not a big fan of Marauder set, sentries at least added a little variety.
Edit: After several attempts in greater rifts I can state that this set brings serious survivability issues along with juicy MS. 4 set bonus needs serious re-work..
Here are some variations I thought might work to make this set better.
2p Generators gen 1 Discipline, also Gain 1 discipline for each enemy hit by MS.
(Possible 4p bonuses 1-3)
4p 1.Reduce MS Cost,2. While at full Discipline gain dmg reduction based on half your max discipline, would work well with 2p,
3. Increase max discipline by 30 or 60 points. would give more to spend and more dmg while at max. you could still use Natas 2p with rorg or not giving more options in the build.
Could also combine 2 and 3 make discipline increase by 30 or 60 and give dmg reduction based on half of total discipline while at max discipline.
6p Can stay as is.