Staff, everyone is talking of Kridershot ... But do not forget a weapon that came back with a good potential? It would be the Windforce (up to 52% of repelling) + Spines of Seething Hatred.
I'm testing with Frostburn (up to 45% chance to Freeze) and also not forgetting the Strongarms clamp (which may increase the damage by 30%) and of course ... also Chakram
Let's take a look at why Krider is better. I only 10 min on my lunch break left so this will be quick napkin map and not exhaustive.
Two scenarios:
1. Normal bow using Cluster Arrow:Malestrom and Evasive Fire:Focus
2. Kridershot using Arrow:Malestrom and Elemental Arrow:Frost Arrow
Assumptions:
1. No passive hatred regen. or skills that increase hatred gain (aka Nightstalker/Preparation).
2. Playstyle is a "dump and reload" style. Dumping all focus and rebuilding back to full before another dump.
3. You have no sentries open. All damage is directly from the DH.
4. You have no skills, gems, or gear that buffs your damage.
5. Weapon dps and attack speeds are identical.
6. Attacks per second is 1.5.
7. Character stats are the same and RCR is 0%.
Scenario 1: Normal bow using Cluster Arrow:Malestrom and Evasive Fire:Focus
Group Damage
Total Dam (%) = 17250
Time Elapsed = 13.33 sec
Single Target
Total Dam (%) = 5050
Time Elapsed = 13.33 sec
Scenario 2: Kridershot using Arrow:Malestrom and Elemental Arrow:Frost Arrow
Group
Total Dam (%) = 16950
Time Elapsed = 22 Seconds
Single Target
Total Dam (%) = 11550
Time Elapsed = 22 Seconds
Now, we find that a hatred generator and normal bow has a faster cycle time in cold build and does higher group damage, but significantly lacks in single target dps. So it looks like you might clear trash a little faster, but the RG will take longer to kill.
Now lets bring back in the assumptions: 1. No passive hatred regen. or skills that increase hatred gain (aka Nightstalker/Preparation). In reality, these skills will be there and mess with the cycle and dump time. Let's assume that you would have these regardless of the build and they cancel each other out in analysis as we bring them in. 2. Playstyle is a "dump and reload" style. Dumping all focus and rebuilding back to full before another dump. We are assuming you will play the build the same way regardless of the weapon used, so this cancels out too. 3. You have no sentries open. All damage is directly from the DH. If we bring sentry damage and damage bonuses into the mix, then this would greatly increase the amount of damage you do with both builds, but more so with the Kridershot build, since the sentries will shoot the EE, but not the EF. 4. You have no skills, gems, or gear that buffs your damage. +sentry and +CA damage will cancel out, as would +EE and +EF. However, EF does not trigger BotT or CotW, but EE does. This would result in more damage from those affects. Using a windforce, your attacks could trigger the proc, but you can't proc of sentries, unlike the chill effect. 5. Weapon dps and attack speeds are identical. These would cancel each other out in analysis. 6. Attacks per second is 1.5. These is just a constant used to define cycle time in this exercise. 7. Character stats are the same and RCR is 0%. Adding in RCR will only reduce cycle time on both builds. This may or may not cancel out depending on how the changes to cycle time will impact the hatred dump speed.
TL;DR, you can do a lot of damage with both builds in group, but Kridershot will outshine on boss fights. Also, the amount of benefit you get from the synergy with chilling mobs, gem/skill +dam increases, and EE uptime (and + damage dealt) due to the Maurader's bonus makes Krider outperform items with identical traits.
Edit: Had to cut out the raw data because the table format made this post as long as War and Peace.
Very good explanation, thanks for helps me to see some things. But I hope that I have managed to spark some interest for those who does not have a Kridershot, just a Windforce.
Very good explanation, thanks for helps me to see some things. But I hope that I have managed to spark some interest for those who does not have a Kridershot, just a Windforce.
Thanks
Me too. I'm actually disappointed that Blizzard is looking at empowering us through sets rather than item affixes. Sets gives them more control on balancing the game because you have to consume a certain number of slots to get an ability; however, I would like to have the potential for crazy builds based upon how each item empowers you and enables you to make build decisions. It's not the ideal state to balance, but it may be time for the developers to lean more towards allowing players to be creative.
EE won't trigger NS. So with NS+EF/F you are regaining 11 hatred per shot, while with Kridershot EE you can only regain 3 or 4.
yes, it works like this - Nighstalker specifically works only with primary skills. Running Krider/Spines make you regen less hatred than using a generator, fair tradeoff from the fact EA/Chakram hit for a lot more.
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I'm testing with Frostburn (up to 45% chance to Freeze) and also not forgetting the Strongarms clamp (which may increase the damage by 30%) and of course ... also Chakram
Link of build
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/17441-wssf-knockback-force
What do you think?
Two scenarios:
1. Normal bow using Cluster Arrow:Malestrom and Evasive Fire:Focus
2. Kridershot using Arrow:Malestrom and Elemental Arrow:Frost Arrow
Assumptions:
1. No passive hatred regen. or skills that increase hatred gain (aka Nightstalker/Preparation).
2. Playstyle is a "dump and reload" style. Dumping all focus and rebuilding back to full before another dump.
3. You have no sentries open. All damage is directly from the DH.
4. You have no skills, gems, or gear that buffs your damage.
5. Weapon dps and attack speeds are identical.
6. Attacks per second is 1.5.
7. Character stats are the same and RCR is 0%.
Scenario 1: Normal bow using Cluster Arrow:Malestrom and Evasive Fire:Focus
Group Damage
Total Dam (%) = 17250
Time Elapsed = 13.33 sec
Single Target
Total Dam (%) = 5050
Time Elapsed = 13.33 sec
Scenario 2: Kridershot using Arrow:Malestrom and Elemental Arrow:Frost Arrow
Group
Total Dam (%) = 16950
Time Elapsed = 22 Seconds
Single Target
Total Dam (%) = 11550
Time Elapsed = 22 Seconds
Now, we find that a hatred generator and normal bow has a faster cycle time in cold build and does higher group damage, but significantly lacks in single target dps. So it looks like you might clear trash a little faster, but the RG will take longer to kill.
Now lets bring back in the assumptions:
1. No passive hatred regen. or skills that increase hatred gain (aka Nightstalker/Preparation). In reality, these skills will be there and mess with the cycle and dump time. Let's assume that you would have these regardless of the build and they cancel each other out in analysis as we bring them in.
2. Playstyle is a "dump and reload" style. Dumping all focus and rebuilding back to full before another dump. We are assuming you will play the build the same way regardless of the weapon used, so this cancels out too.
3. You have no sentries open. All damage is directly from the DH. If we bring sentry damage and damage bonuses into the mix, then this would greatly increase the amount of damage you do with both builds, but more so with the Kridershot build, since the sentries will shoot the EE, but not the EF.
4. You have no skills, gems, or gear that buffs your damage. +sentry and +CA damage will cancel out, as would +EE and +EF. However, EF does not trigger BotT or CotW, but EE does. This would result in more damage from those affects. Using a windforce, your attacks could trigger the proc, but you can't proc of sentries, unlike the chill effect.
5. Weapon dps and attack speeds are identical. These would cancel each other out in analysis.
6. Attacks per second is 1.5. These is just a constant used to define cycle time in this exercise.
7. Character stats are the same and RCR is 0%. Adding in RCR will only reduce cycle time on both builds. This may or may not cancel out depending on how the changes to cycle time will impact the hatred dump speed.
TL;DR, you can do a lot of damage with both builds in group, but Kridershot will outshine on boss fights. Also, the amount of benefit you get from the synergy with chilling mobs, gem/skill +dam increases, and EE uptime (and + damage dealt) due to the Maurader's bonus makes Krider outperform items with identical traits.
Edit: Had to cut out the raw data because the table format made this post as long as War and Peace.
Thanks
EE won't trigger NS. So with NS+EF/F you are regaining 11 hatred per shot, while with Kridershot EE you can only regain 3 or 4.
yes, it works like this - Nighstalker specifically works only with primary skills. Running Krider/Spines make you regen less hatred than using a generator, fair tradeoff from the fact EA/Chakram hit for a lot more.