I've seen reports in the US forums. Self-buffed between 1 and 5 billion crits, 15B with some active party buffs.
I've been getting 1B+ easily with shield cross with the bracers self buffed. In group things just get ridiculous especially with the 6pc roland set since it basically allows you to bash twice as fast you end up doing a good 10-20B dps and rift guardians just melt. Unless something changes they'll replace DHs for group grifts dps slots.
It is definitely a lot squishier though, although you can sacrifice some damage solo and use a zodiac and have good uptime on prophet to help out. Also seen some people mixing in bowman with perma crit which allows you to sustain great damage even wrath starved and allows you to back out and heal and reshield with gizzard.
To be honest there is always something better than punish for gr's, the only thing that could change that is a re work of the Akarat's Awakening shield. If that were to be bumped to 50% from 25%, with the proc guarenteeed then it may actually be workable with a Bloodbrother.
As far as weps go, at the moment I'd say Ancient HS or Furnace for a phys build , Fire could be ancient maximus or ancient golden flense. Love needed for flense though. The increased cdr that you get via Obsidian ring syncs very well with any sweep rune, but its not enough in and of itself.
Would love to see the Flense have updates to it, I don't believe that its blizzards intent that there be a stand alone sweep build. The itemization just isn't there yet. However it should be able to be played as an acceptable stand in for a furnace/hs. Some ways to go about this may be to raise the base damage on 2h flails. The only thing that should do more damage in base catagory is a 2h mace. Secondly the affix of the flail. As far as wrath gen goes, it works as advertised. Simply put with the mechanics of the current sweep runes the wrath gen isn't enough by itself to make flense worth taking in light of the lower base damage and lack of damage increasing legendary power or elemental affix.
How to increase the legendary power though? Effect of every rune is an option and would open us up to having synergy with the Blizzcon Elemental ring, something we don't currently have. This set has stack managing mechanics for days, so I'm not sure that more stacks to manage is the answer.
A legendary power that worked in the reverse of the bash bracers could be introduced as well.
The "jay" in blue would be me, to avoid any confusion.
Haven't run since last night, dropped 2 spots since then. Swapped the Zodiac ring for Broken promises, in lieu of gear the damage bonus is nice. Once we have gear Zodiac may over take, for the moment though as I'm building toughness all the damage I can get matters. Every rift that I placed on to date has been a combo of a1 mobs. With the lag we get anything other than that can lock connection, for me anyway.
Just from the change without playing you can tell its finally viable. But with all the cheese on ptr.... : But seems perfectly viable even without the ring that they should have just given the leg affix "you are immune to damage" XD
High Gr isnt rlay 30++... One would say 40, but honestly even hc wws do 40+ on live... xD But ye, for a non unity its like 37+ for everything else its 42-44+
What cheese?
High gr would be 50 + and Spongebob hit it yesterday with a 51 in rolands. XD Check out the official forums bro he's got vids of his clears, pretty good stuff. You can see the lag in some cases and its pretty atrocious.
You are actually with me on this, i told the same, its perfectly viable.
Cheese means a lot of stuff will be changed/nerfed, thats making insane builds possible now. And there are quite some bugs these builds use as well. Its a huge cheesecake with cheese topiing all over it, and some cheese sauce sparkled on it. Almost any class can do 50 and + on ptr now eyes closed Well aside form the lagg.... But i highly doubt blizzard gonna leave all thes einfinite resource, perma imunity 0 cooldown 100% chc builds all up. Well im 99% sure they wont,
But dont get me wrong roland gonna be pretty damn strong.
for your comment tho:
50-52 is the highest achieved(some barb exceptions) for most classes, so thats ultimate end game for now, we spoke about higher/high GR-s. So calling the baseline 50 is funny, please only do that if you cleared it with 2 classes or so.
Saying High gr is 50 /= gr 50 baseline.Lean to read for comprehension. Please do not put words in my mouth. Also feel free to post your progress here with a Rolands set up, this thread is for everyone after all.
Sorry dude you have no argument, gr 50 is high. Not being able to discern the difference between something being a high mark and a standard is pretty stupid when you think about it, clearly from your posts you can't do that. Which is fine, I could really care less. In the meantime, either post experiences/thoughts on the set and play mechanics or spend your time arguing semantics for no good reason.
All the time in the world for trolls who want to shit post dude. L2 english.
You can solve w/e is going on between you two with whispers, fighting in here isnt going to solve anything.
On topic, the playstyle stays the same though the dmg is really nice now since it is multiplicative and not additive.
Considering that the devs decided to nerf perma immunity abilities it seems that the 2 "new" rings (zodiac and broken promises) will stay the way they are which means that it will help a lot with the spec ( broken promises will allow to focus on more toughness,zodiac for higher uptime on defensive abilities etc. )
The dmg is there and I believe that on that part it's fine. Possibly the 6set could become a bit more interesting, adding a bit more defense and there have been a lot of nice suggestions mentioned here like the added dmg reduction on top of the AS stacks from the 6p bonus.
Already on PTR a few have cleared 50+ so the set seems perfectly viable atm and able to compete with both Akkhan builds ( condemn-stampede ).
To be honest I'm not sure how/why posts that aren't on topic aren't deleted. Mods please.
On topic:
It would solve a lot of problems if the legendary affix of zodiac ring affected every cool down as long as it is on cool down, regardless of the order and amount of cd's used.
Let me explain that, I shouldn't be able to sit on a cool down and have the ring "bank" cdr so as to be able to chain pop AC or a law or IS, but there are situations where it is necessary to use all cd's together and the ring in its current state can make that quite difficult. I'd love to see the reliance on cdr lessened, after experiencing play with a build that uses a lot of before cooldown toughness and a build that has its toughness invested in cd's I prefer the former. Not being forced into mandatory cdr rolls feels amazing, the two set and the ring give you those options.
That's just me though, perhaps I'm just sick of the Akkhan set and how unrewarding that style of stat stacking actually is in terms of time spent for what you get out of it.
Hard to say with holy, I have the gear so I can test but as I remember the proc rate for mir with sb wasn't great. Will get back to you.
You could go a pure SB build stacking physical with SB:Cross/IS:Flash/SG:Zealous/AC:Prophet/LoV:UF and Consecrate. Con has some interesting options, you can use Bathed in Light for healing, Frozen ground for kiting or Fearful for large add/elite sniping. Passives are: Heavenly Strength, Indy,Towering,Finery. I have to play around with the passives but with the lag on ptr Indy is a real life saver, and a very nice dps boost when you intentionally proc it and pop AC.
Furnace or Heart slaughter as weapon choices, Unity/Broken promises as rings. Gems I use are Goguk,Taeguk,Bane of the Trapped.
You can also swap physical for fire and use the above talent selection (Shield Bash Crumble) with Maximus. Same rings and gems.
Something different is a build I'm working on that uses Golden Flense/Piro Marella in conjunction with the Zodiac ring and an Ess of Johan on follower for faster cdr resets. This build uses sweep to hit 8+ targets and is centered around resetting cool downs as fast as possible using sweep, which has a far greater synergy with the Zodiac ring due to faster attacks. You use SB to zip around, collect some adds, pop AC:P, and Flense into the mob when your follower's Ess procs. Using crumble to max effect try and aim for the lowest hp adds on the outside of the pack, to proc the explosion from death into the largest possible number of adds from the Ess grouping.
This build drops Consecrate for Sweep Attack,everything else including the passives remains the same. At the moment I'm using Blazing Sweep/Crumble, I've tried the build as physical with a Pain Enhancer and just don't care for it, however that build resets cool downs very very quickly due to the IAS effect of PE. I'm convinced that you get less overall damage output from SB:Cross if not using a Furnace or Heart Slaughter, but I could be wrong. Fire with this setup just seems to fit much better than physical.
Not getting the results I want with the sweep build in its current state, testing pure shield bash with crumble now.
I haven't tried a Cinder coat for anything other than T6 farming, wrath isn't an issue and either Broken promises/Zodiac make up for the 20% fire damage affix with their affixes. Ancient Maximus would be a source for the elemental damage and wouldn't cost you the damage/utility from a ring slot.
RRoG doesn't bring enough to compete with other options for one slot, as we're probably going to be sticking with unity. Personally I hate RRoG on the crusader class,none of the off pieces you could equip are stronger than the set bonuses with either Focus and Restraint, Broken Promise or Zodiac, with the adjustments made to Roland's resource management is much smoother than before.
You can uphold Taeguk, the sweep/shield bash build I was playing around with stacked the gem very quickly and just shield bash will also do this. It isn't a big deal to drop the stack at any point unless its the last pull before the rg either, but it does make for a longer fight.
Kinda wish they'd add a really strong 1h flail... Maybe even bake the current shield bash damage passive into a Mace instead of the current bracers...
I'm just getting bored of Heavenly Strength being all but mandatory for all builds.
The problem with one handers is that they've dated themselves, and in nearly every case were garbage to begin with if you look at our specific 1h flails. The old 1h's need a ground up redesign, and the penalty from Heavenly Strength needs to go.
That is also a dated mechanic from when we were able to circumvent the 20% debuff with Hellskull/Holy Cause.
Would like to see a redesign on flails and HS, and if HS gets re tuned Fervor would then need another look.
Nice that Roland get's buffed, but Blade of Prophecy should be changed to Condemn triggers twice always, not if 2 or more enemies affected by Condemn.
It would solve most things for single target, especially looking into the fact that most classes will get 250-400% damage items for spenders (Meteor boots, WW ring, Shield Bash bracers and so on)...
But, let's see if and what they gonna change on Akkhan set (I suppose there will be a change, since 2pc bonus is 500 STR, they are going away from that 500 mainstat bonus anyway)
Most exciting part is that Rolands is def Hardcore viable
Sweet, thanks for sharing that. I missed that stream ^^
Would be nice if we could see the build you were running and possibly a few comments about your gear - That's the fire rune on sb? are you using cindercoat? Does that mean you can give up on the Piro shield? Would you go for final witness if so?
On a second note, in a group setup with a wd, you will probably be able to go for full dps. Would you go for the pound rune then? I think it's safe to say that in the current 2.2 iteration, you can get to 20b dps quite easily with pound, is that wrong?
They need to try and balance 1h and 2h (with the respective talents) to make them roughly equal. Not sure how that would work though...
Not sure myself and to be honest I don't think its a realistic goal to normalize 1h/2h damage. The problem with that is the base damage on 2h weps especially maces being so much higher. It would probably require special casing in addition to re building the 1h flails, and considering what Blizzard did to Darklight I don't see them making 1h viable for grs anytime soon. Having the option to z-dps really seems to fuck classes over in the long run, just another 'balance' brought to you by blizzard.
Same thing on my non season dh, I've got a calamity/ancient kshot/ancient arc barb. The barb shits on the other 2 because of the higher base damage, and since cluster arrow is the go to at the moment on live the 'barb rules.
Its funny when I go to the Official forums and see the odd thread asking for HS pentalty to be removed all the op get's is replies from people who farm T6 on alt crusaders who mock the idea. That seems to be a huge problem with this class, no established community, worse yet we get these alt 'saders trolling more often than not and shutting down legit threads, with a few idiot catch phrases. I'm banned from official forum after the release of the Rolands set, also for how they've handled the Wich Doctor so I can't call idiots like that out but when all blues see is threads like that just flopping then why would they ever think to redesign that passive?
Nice try on the 55 MC caught that on Twitch yesterday. You think 58 do able with the right adds/RG?
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Just got in, ss of the setup as of now http://imgur.com/kGaNmTH
The heart slaughter and the rolands shoulder slot are ancient, nothing else is.
http://imgur.com/e4wP6gc
Made a mistake and went into a gr with no unity/conc. Worked out well rift was full of a1 melee mobs, no pylons.
I've been getting 1B+ easily with shield cross with the bracers self buffed. In group things just get ridiculous especially with the 6pc roland set since it basically allows you to bash twice as fast you end up doing a good 10-20B dps and rift guardians just melt. Unless something changes they'll replace DHs for group grifts dps slots.
It is definitely a lot squishier though, although you can sacrifice some damage solo and use a zodiac and have good uptime on prophet to help out. Also seen some people mixing in bowman with perma crit which allows you to sustain great damage even wrath starved and allows you to back out and heal and reshield with gizzard.
Hmmm... So what weapon will everyone be using with this build?
And do you think Punish will be worth using, for the boosted damage on Shield Slam?
To be honest there is always something better than punish for gr's, the only thing that could change that is a re work of the Akarat's Awakening shield. If that were to be bumped to 50% from 25%, with the proc guarenteeed then it may actually be workable with a Bloodbrother.
As far as weps go, at the moment I'd say Ancient HS or Furnace for a phys build , Fire could be ancient maximus or ancient golden flense. Love needed for flense though. The increased cdr that you get via Obsidian ring syncs very well with any sweep rune, but its not enough in and of itself.
Would love to see the Flense have updates to it, I don't believe that its blizzards intent that there be a stand alone sweep build. The itemization just isn't there yet. However it should be able to be played as an acceptable stand in for a furnace/hs. Some ways to go about this may be to raise the base damage on 2h flails. The only thing that should do more damage in base catagory is a 2h mace. Secondly the affix of the flail. As far as wrath gen goes, it works as advertised. Simply put with the mechanics of the current sweep runes the wrath gen isn't enough by itself to make flense worth taking in light of the lower base damage and lack of damage increasing legendary power or elemental affix.
How to increase the legendary power though? Effect of every rune is an option and would open us up to having synergy with the Blizzcon Elemental ring, something we don't currently have. This set has stack managing mechanics for days, so I'm not sure that more stacks to manage is the answer.
A legendary power that worked in the reverse of the bash bracers could be introduced as well.
http://imgur.com/I8POzvM
The "jay" in blue would be me, to avoid any confusion.
Haven't run since last night, dropped 2 spots since then. Swapped the Zodiac ring for Broken promises, in lieu of gear the damage bonus is nice. Once we have gear Zodiac may over take, for the moment though as I'm building toughness all the damage I can get matters. Every rift that I placed on to date has been a combo of a1 mobs. With the lag we get anything other than that can lock connection, for me anyway.
Saying High gr is 50 /= gr 50 baseline.Lean to read for comprehension. Please do not put words in my mouth. Also feel free to post your progress here with a Rolands set up, this thread is for everyone after all.
Sorry dude you have no argument, gr 50 is high. Not being able to discern the difference between something being a high mark and a standard is pretty stupid when you think about it, clearly from your posts you can't do that. Which is fine, I could really care less. In the meantime, either post experiences/thoughts on the set and play mechanics or spend your time arguing semantics for no good reason.
All the time in the world for trolls who want to shit post dude. L2 english.
You can solve w/e is going on between you two with whispers, fighting in here isnt going to solve anything.
On topic, the playstyle stays the same though the dmg is really nice now since it is multiplicative and not additive.
Considering that the devs decided to nerf perma immunity abilities it seems that the 2 "new" rings (zodiac and broken promises) will stay the way they are which means that it will help a lot with the spec ( broken promises will allow to focus on more toughness,zodiac for higher uptime on defensive abilities etc. )
The dmg is there and I believe that on that part it's fine. Possibly the 6set could become a bit more interesting, adding a bit more defense and there have been a lot of nice suggestions mentioned here like the added dmg reduction on top of the AS stacks from the 6p bonus.
Already on PTR a few have cleared 50+ so the set seems perfectly viable atm and able to compete with both Akkhan builds ( condemn-stampede ).
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Fordragon-2878/hero/9763301
To be honest I'm not sure how/why posts that aren't on topic aren't deleted. Mods please.
On topic:
It would solve a lot of problems if the legendary affix of zodiac ring affected every cool down as long as it is on cool down, regardless of the order and amount of cd's used.
Let me explain that, I shouldn't be able to sit on a cool down and have the ring "bank" cdr so as to be able to chain pop AC or a law or IS, but there are situations where it is necessary to use all cd's together and the ring in its current state can make that quite difficult. I'd love to see the reliance on cdr lessened, after experiencing play with a build that uses a lot of before cooldown toughness and a build that has its toughness invested in cd's I prefer the former. Not being forced into mandatory cdr rolls feels amazing, the two set and the ring give you those options.
That's just me though, perhaps I'm just sick of the Akkhan set and how unrewarding that style of stat stacking actually is in terms of time spent for what you get out of it.
What build is everyone thinking about running once the patch goes live?
I mean obviously Shield Bash with Cross/Pound, but what other skills?
Also, reckon a holy damage stacking build with Shatter Shield, Mirinae and Ashbringer would work
Hard to say with holy, I have the gear so I can test but as I remember the proc rate for mir with sb wasn't great. Will get back to you.
You could go a pure SB build stacking physical with SB:Cross/IS:Flash/SG:Zealous/AC:Prophet/LoV:UF and Consecrate. Con has some interesting options, you can use Bathed in Light for healing, Frozen ground for kiting or Fearful for large add/elite sniping. Passives are: Heavenly Strength, Indy,Towering,Finery. I have to play around with the passives but with the lag on ptr Indy is a real life saver, and a very nice dps boost when you intentionally proc it and pop AC.
Furnace or Heart slaughter as weapon choices, Unity/Broken promises as rings. Gems I use are Goguk,Taeguk,Bane of the Trapped.
You can also swap physical for fire and use the above talent selection (Shield Bash Crumble) with Maximus. Same rings and gems.
Something different is a build I'm working on that uses Golden Flense/Piro Marella in conjunction with the Zodiac ring and an Ess of Johan on follower for faster cdr resets. This build uses sweep to hit 8+ targets and is centered around resetting cool downs as fast as possible using sweep, which has a far greater synergy with the Zodiac ring due to faster attacks. You use SB to zip around, collect some adds, pop AC:P, and Flense into the mob when your follower's Ess procs. Using crumble to max effect try and aim for the lowest hp adds on the outside of the pack, to proc the explosion from death into the largest possible number of adds from the Ess grouping.
This build drops Consecrate for Sweep Attack,everything else including the passives remains the same. At the moment I'm using Blazing Sweep/Crumble, I've tried the build as physical with a Pain Enhancer and just don't care for it, however that build resets cool downs very very quickly due to the IAS effect of PE. I'm convinced that you get less overall damage output from SB:Cross if not using a Furnace or Heart Slaughter, but I could be wrong. Fire with this setup just seems to fit much better than physical.
Kinda wish they'd add a really strong 1h flail... Maybe even bake the current shield bash damage passive into a Mace instead of the current bracers...
I'm just getting bored of Heavenly Strength being all but mandatory for all builds.
Not getting the results I want with the sweep build in its current state, testing pure shield bash with crumble now.
I haven't tried a Cinder coat for anything other than T6 farming, wrath isn't an issue and either Broken promises/Zodiac make up for the 20% fire damage affix with their affixes. Ancient Maximus would be a source for the elemental damage and wouldn't cost you the damage/utility from a ring slot.
RRoG doesn't bring enough to compete with other options for one slot, as we're probably going to be sticking with unity. Personally I hate RRoG on the crusader class,none of the off pieces you could equip are stronger than the set bonuses with either Focus and Restraint, Broken Promise or Zodiac, with the adjustments made to Roland's resource management is much smoother than before.
You can uphold Taeguk, the sweep/shield bash build I was playing around with stacked the gem very quickly and just shield bash will also do this. It isn't a big deal to drop the stack at any point unless its the last pull before the rg either, but it does make for a longer fight.
The problem with one handers is that they've dated themselves, and in nearly every case were garbage to begin with if you look at our specific 1h flails. The old 1h's need a ground up redesign, and the penalty from Heavenly Strength needs to go.
That is also a dated mechanic from when we were able to circumvent the 20% debuff with Hellskull/Holy Cause.
Would like to see a redesign on flails and HS, and if HS gets re tuned Fervor would then need another look.
I would be very much okay with that Raz.
They need to try and balance 1h and 2h (with the respective talents) to make them roughly equal. Not sure how that would work though...
Hi Guys,
From my testing of PTR Rolands set outperforms everything (possibly may be best overall all classes)
I currently have the fastest clear for both barb and crus on PTR and I feel that Rolands will outperform my Barb atm
Here's a video of my 2nd attempt at 53.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6KFoA5sNpM
Most exciting part is that Rolands is def Hardcore viable
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
They don't need to buff Condemn/Pony builds. They're both still good just not AS good as Rolands.
People will ALWAYS math out which is the most effcient build, then certain people will play that and only that because it's the best...
The VAST majority of players will carry on playing whatever they want.
Nice that Roland get's buffed, but Blade of Prophecy should be changed to Condemn triggers twice always, not if 2 or more enemies affected by Condemn.
It would solve most things for single target, especially looking into the fact that most classes will get 250-400% damage items for spenders (Meteor boots, WW ring, Shield Bash bracers and so on)...
But, let's see if and what they gonna change on Akkhan set (I suppose there will be a change, since 2pc bonus is 500 STR, they are going away from that 500 mainstat bonus anyway)
My D3 armory
My Youtube Channel
Sweet, thanks for sharing that. I missed that stream ^^
Would be nice if we could see the build you were running and possibly a few comments about your gear - That's the fire rune on sb? are you using cindercoat? Does that mean you can give up on the Piro shield? Would you go for final witness if so?
On a second note, in a group setup with a wd, you will probably be able to go for full dps. Would you go for the pound rune then? I think it's safe to say that in the current 2.2 iteration, you can get to 20b dps quite easily with pound, is that wrong?
Not sure myself and to be honest I don't think its a realistic goal to normalize 1h/2h damage. The problem with that is the base damage on 2h weps especially maces being so much higher. It would probably require special casing in addition to re building the 1h flails, and considering what Blizzard did to Darklight I don't see them making 1h viable for grs anytime soon. Having the option to z-dps really seems to fuck classes over in the long run, just another 'balance' brought to you by blizzard.
Same thing on my non season dh, I've got a calamity/ancient kshot/ancient arc barb. The barb shits on the other 2 because of the higher base damage, and since cluster arrow is the go to at the moment on live the 'barb rules.
Its funny when I go to the Official forums and see the odd thread asking for HS pentalty to be removed all the op get's is replies from people who farm T6 on alt crusaders who mock the idea. That seems to be a huge problem with this class, no established community, worse yet we get these alt 'saders trolling more often than not and shutting down legit threads, with a few idiot catch phrases. I'm banned from official forum after the release of the Rolands set, also for how they've handled the Wich Doctor so I can't call idiots like that out but when all blues see is threads like that just flopping then why would they ever think to redesign that passive?
Nice try on the 55 MC caught that on Twitch yesterday. You think 58 do able with the right adds/RG?