So, the topic is: will Roland's set be viable at last on higher GRs (30+) after new changes Blizzard implement in 2.2.0.
Seems to me that with Piro Marella and Golden Flense it gives a good opportunity to kill mobs fast enough (Sweep for packs and SB for Elites/Bosses) while allowing to keep 80%+ uptime on cornerstone abilities like AC/IS etc.
The only thing i'm not sure about is what falls under "Laws and Defensive Skills". AC might not be one of the skills that fall under that category. IS is most likely one of the skills that do... Along with Shield glare, Consecration and judgement.
I personally see a lot of potential with reducing the cooldown on shield glare. It might mean that you can keep everything perma-blinded but it sounds like something Blizzard might nerf... Even though, technically a monk right now can have perma-serenity and still deal tons of damage so i dono.
Anyway Rolands will defenitely enable you to clear GR40+ after 2.2 imo. The question is whether or not it will enable us to push higher than Condemn / Stampede... I have a feeling that it will, mainly because of the cooldown reduction mechanic.
Played it on the PTR for about an hour and I gotta say, it's a lot of fun. Messed around with several runes but the pound rune made me laugh. Over 2 billion damage hits to Elites with my crappy furnace and the new shield bash bracers. Definitely swapping to Crusader from Barb come next season.
I'll definately check this out on PTR. I was super-excited when I've read about the changes AND the upcoming Shield Bracers. This might transform the crusader into a single target dps monster.
Still Akkarat is going to be stronger, at least until a moment when those two sets can be combined.190% of armor + cc immunity in one button is unbeatable since Rolands isn't solving main issue which is surviveability,and i am shure that Akkarat setup can use those "defence skills" with same effectivnes as Rolands with new set bonus, because of high CDR involved.
If you can get perma Laws of Hope: Stop Time then rolands will be the go to but I think if we can attain that Blizzard will break it like when DH's right after launch could perma smoke screen and avoid all damage.
If you can get perma Laws of Hope: Stop Time then rolands will be the go to but I think if we can attain that Blizzard will break it like when DH's right after launch could perma smoke screen and avoid all damage.
Just having permanent Iron Skin offers defensive parity with Akkhan's. It's not like you can't run Indestructible with the set.
That's pretty much *exactly* what I'm running right now (same sets, different pieces - using Blackthorn's Amulet so I can have freeze immunity on boots).. Only have 3 pieces of Roland's, would happily trade Aughild's for the 6 piece bonus. And as others have pointed out, the coming Shield Bash bracers are worth leaving a slot open for.
And I heartily recommend tacking on Piro Mirela on for half-cost Shield Bash. As a crafted item you can keep trying for Ancient or high block (or both).
Still Akkarat is going to be stronger, at least until a moment when those two sets can be combined.190% of armor + cc immunity in one button is unbeatable since Rolands isn't solving main issue which is surviveability,and i am shure that Akkarat setup can use those "defence skills" with same effectivnes as Rolands with new set bonus, because of high CDR involved.
Iron Skin outright thrashes AC in terms of raw DR since the scaling on AC is essentially linear while Iron Skin is multiplicative. Permanent Bravery is partywide CC immunity. If you can achieve permanent time stop...
Akkhan's even with significant CDR won't achieve permanent Iron Skin without hosing damage since it requires a minimum 77% CDR. It can get permanent offensive laws. Permanent Bravery would require ~75% CDR, so you're not getting that (last I checked bravery was at 8 second duration after Long Arm because lying game is lying). Permanent Time Stop flat out can't happen.
So no. AC cannot use those defensive skills to anywhere near the effectiveness of Roland's. And Roland's using Sweep/Bash is going to crush the DPS of AC against single targets and small groups. AC will keep its better skill flexibility and extra cheat death.
Basically Akkhan's for support builds / AoE builds, Roland's for bosskillers.
They don't have to nerf it, you only see those whopping crits when you gain the affix of the bracer, so the set would clear the rg faster but take longer on trash, where the AC builds go through trash well but flounder on the gr.
When hitting into a large pack the bracer buff doesn't activate it just assists in clearing out those last few mobs, usually at mid high gr those large adds have 9b hp around 45 that becomes 17b or so, so you won't be one shotting anything.
Perhaps the only serous feedback should come from the people that are able to run 40+ gr from the set. Torment testing would be 100% irrelevant as there are so many ways to cheese damage now. I copied a set over that should be able to run to 40 no problem, no ancients which was the case when I ran my first 40 in non season before the gr buffs, with a stampede setup. When I can get past the q I'll post screen shots and findings from content that actually matters.
Survival may be an issue. With the extreme lag rotating defense skills is a massive issue. Build is very very weak to ranged mobs of any type lag or not I feel quite confidant in that. I have to play with the different laws, however at gr 37+ through unity, Iron skin(steel skin rune) Decaying strength I was seeing instant proc's of Indestructible from groups of mobs 10+. If there were ranged mobs shooting me off screen there was a death, unavoidable due to lag. Now this is just first brush, I was only running for 40 or so minutes for that gr 42. That was the second rift I attempted at that level, first one failed due to massive lag. When I say massive I mean hitting a defensive and waiting 5-7 seconds for it to actually go off. Massive.
AC prophet is at the moment necessary. Steel skin/Decaying strength by themselves are no where near enough protection for the damage you can see. Even then due to the in your face nature of the build you still take a thrashing, certain affix/mob combinations are an instant proc of prophet/Indy. In live I've not seen that happen with either of my AC builds, so again taken with a grain of salt this could be lag.
These runs were done with no ancient items, I lucked out and found an Obsidian Ring, and it may be mandatory after a certain point to use this and unity. There is a way to game the legendary affix to give a great deal more uptime on AC:Prophet via the ring, It takes practice I'm not anywhere near max uptime on the skill due to a lack thereof.
From a defensive standpoint this set is still behind any AC build in my opinion and by a fairly wide margin. Its playstyle is however far more complex and using the shield bash skill in a defensive manner to create an out for yourself is do able. Perhaps with far less lag I'd have an idea if you could use sb in this way reliably till then no idea.
Damage wise the build clears trash on par with an AC build with some clear advantages. You can snipe large adds/elite packs with the bracers to game the timer. Where AC builds rely on or create their own density, this build thrives in lower pop rifts. The damage of sheild bash is not overpowered in the slightest at gr 40+, not op at 35+ either. It is what is necessary for the build to function. Was not able to test sweep, however looking at the BASE damge difference between a 2h flail, 2h polarm, 2h mace I'd say that a Golden Flense setup NOW would lose to either a furnace or heart slaughter. Handily.
Wrath management: The other side of AC being necessary for myself at the moment. I'll have to see how different focuses on my sets play out, in an ideal would I would be able to test a CDR,RCR,LOH, Glass cannon setup for the set.
Btag is jay#1401, I believe I'm in the top 50 for the ptr but can't remember what number exactly. These things are subject to sudden change so that may be already out of date. It should also be noted that the build I used was thrown together in a few moments, as well as the gems I use (Taegok, BoTT, Pain enhancer) would love to be rid of the PH but it takes forever to do anything on ptr, so tests with other gems will have to wait.
As far as trials go, I suspect that condemn would still crush the rolands set as far as maximum level of key, based on mechanics of play.
Lastly, and probably one of if not the most important thing: The set is a very fun very engaging play. As there are adjustments made I hope this isn't lost. Part of the fun is seeing the crits for billions, the other part is the intensive positional skill needed for the build. All in all it is a huge and wonderful upgrade from what the set was, even if it does need more tuning.
Haven't had a good one drop, I have had some other drops witch allowed me to go to 34 mill toughness before any cd's, need to craft an ancient prio though.
I may be wrong here but doesn't piro have a chance to roll higher block % (I'm thinking more damage from this) than FW? 70 shields crafted yesterday and only 3 ancients so hoping for better luck today. I'll keep my eye out for a FW in the meantime, thanks for the heads up mang : )
Just from the change without playing you can tell its finally viable. But with all the cheese on ptr.... : But seems perfectly viable even without the ring that they should have just given the leg affix "you are immune to damage" XD
High Gr isnt rlay 30++... One would say 40, but honestly even hc wws do 40+ on live... xD But ye, for a non unity its like 37+ for everything else its 42-44+
What cheese?
High gr would be 50 + and Spongebob hit it yesterday with a 51 in rolands. XD Check out the official forums bro he's got vids of his clears, pretty good stuff. You can see the lag in some cases and its pretty atrocious.
is everyone here using the corrupted ashbringer? i believe the damage proc is bugged hence why you are able to 1 shot everything so the damage that is done isnt that reliable to my knowledge
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Hello, everyone!
So, the topic is: will Roland's set be viable at last on higher GRs (30+) after new changes Blizzard implement in 2.2.0.
Seems to me that with Piro Marella and Golden Flense it gives a good opportunity to kill mobs fast enough (Sweep for packs and SB for Elites/Bosses) while allowing to keep 80%+ uptime on cornerstone abilities like AC/IS etc.
Any thoughts on this?
Yes.
The only thing i'm not sure about is what falls under "Laws and Defensive Skills". AC might not be one of the skills that fall under that category. IS is most likely one of the skills that do... Along with Shield glare, Consecration and judgement.
I personally see a lot of potential with reducing the cooldown on shield glare. It might mean that you can keep everything perma-blinded but it sounds like something Blizzard might nerf... Even though, technically a monk right now can have perma-serenity and still deal tons of damage so i dono.
Anyway Rolands will defenitely enable you to clear GR40+ after 2.2 imo. The question is whether or not it will enable us to push higher than Condemn / Stampede... I have a feeling that it will, mainly because of the cooldown reduction mechanic.
It has always been viable. it's ceiling is just not that high compared to akkhan's which has always been better overall (survivability/ deeps)
Defensive skills are : Shield Glare, Iron Skin, Consecration, Judgement.
AC is under the Convictions list
it's written above the skills list.
already viable for 30s. 40s? well see
6 pc bonus is still intact @bellin
Played it on the PTR for about an hour and I gotta say, it's a lot of fun. Messed around with several runes but the pound rune made me laugh. Over 2 billion damage hits to Elites with my crappy furnace and the new shield bash bracers. Definitely swapping to Crusader from Barb come next season.
perma law+iron skin is awesome. jumping between packs using shield bash while using sweeping attack with golden flense is great.
I'll definately check this out on PTR. I was super-excited when I've read about the changes AND the upcoming Shield Bracers. This might transform the crusader into a single target dps monster.
Still Akkarat is going to be stronger, at least until a moment when those two sets can be combined.190% of armor + cc immunity in one button is unbeatable since Rolands isn't solving main issue which is surviveability,and i am shure that Akkarat setup can use those "defence skills" with same effectivnes as Rolands with new set bonus, because of high CDR involved.
The damage output was already massively higher than Akkan's for a sweep build.
If you can get perma Laws of Hope: Stop Time then rolands will be the go to but I think if we can attain that Blizzard will break it like when DH's right after launch could perma smoke screen and avoid all damage.
Just having permanent Iron Skin offers defensive parity with Akkhan's. It's not like you can't run Indestructible with the set.
That's pretty much *exactly* what I'm running right now (same sets, different pieces - using Blackthorn's Amulet so I can have freeze immunity on boots).. Only have 3 pieces of Roland's, would happily trade Aughild's for the 6 piece bonus. And as others have pointed out, the coming Shield Bash bracers are worth leaving a slot open for.
And I heartily recommend tacking on Piro Mirela on for half-cost Shield Bash. As a crafted item you can keep trying for Ancient or high block (or both).
Iron Skin outright thrashes AC in terms of raw DR since the scaling on AC is essentially linear while Iron Skin is multiplicative. Permanent Bravery is partywide CC immunity. If you can achieve permanent time stop...
Akkhan's even with significant CDR won't achieve permanent Iron Skin without hosing damage since it requires a minimum 77% CDR. It can get permanent offensive laws. Permanent Bravery would require ~75% CDR, so you're not getting that (last I checked bravery was at 8 second duration after Long Arm because lying game is lying). Permanent Time Stop flat out can't happen.
So no. AC cannot use those defensive skills to anywhere near the effectiveness of Roland's. And Roland's using Sweep/Bash is going to crush the DPS of AC against single targets and small groups. AC will keep its better skill flexibility and extra cheat death.
Basically Akkhan's for support builds / AoE builds, Roland's for bosskillers.
They don't have to nerf it, you only see those whopping crits when you gain the affix of the bracer, so the set would clear the rg faster but take longer on trash, where the AC builds go through trash well but flounder on the gr.
When hitting into a large pack the bracer buff doesn't activate it just assists in clearing out those last few mobs, usually at mid high gr those large adds have 9b hp around 45 that becomes 17b or so, so you won't be one shotting anything.
Perhaps the only serous feedback should come from the people that are able to run 40+ gr from the set. Torment testing would be 100% irrelevant as there are so many ways to cheese damage now. I copied a set over that should be able to run to 40 no problem, no ancients which was the case when I ran my first 40 in non season before the gr buffs, with a stampede setup. When I can get past the q I'll post screen shots and findings from content that actually matters.
Here come the pics, no vids as my card doesn't support recording. Neither would my internet with the extreme lag that I'm getting on the ptr atm.
http://imgur.com/zKBrfPd,hpDD9YD,P45ROSV
GR42 run. Some thoughts:
Survival may be an issue. With the extreme lag rotating defense skills is a massive issue. Build is very very weak to ranged mobs of any type lag or not I feel quite confidant in that. I have to play with the different laws, however at gr 37+ through unity, Iron skin(steel skin rune) Decaying strength I was seeing instant proc's of Indestructible from groups of mobs 10+. If there were ranged mobs shooting me off screen there was a death, unavoidable due to lag. Now this is just first brush, I was only running for 40 or so minutes for that gr 42. That was the second rift I attempted at that level, first one failed due to massive lag. When I say massive I mean hitting a defensive and waiting 5-7 seconds for it to actually go off. Massive.
AC prophet is at the moment necessary. Steel skin/Decaying strength by themselves are no where near enough protection for the damage you can see. Even then due to the in your face nature of the build you still take a thrashing, certain affix/mob combinations are an instant proc of prophet/Indy. In live I've not seen that happen with either of my AC builds, so again taken with a grain of salt this could be lag.
These runs were done with no ancient items, I lucked out and found an Obsidian Ring, and it may be mandatory after a certain point to use this and unity. There is a way to game the legendary affix to give a great deal more uptime on AC:Prophet via the ring, It takes practice I'm not anywhere near max uptime on the skill due to a lack thereof.
From a defensive standpoint this set is still behind any AC build in my opinion and by a fairly wide margin. Its playstyle is however far more complex and using the shield bash skill in a defensive manner to create an out for yourself is do able. Perhaps with far less lag I'd have an idea if you could use sb in this way reliably till then no idea.
Damage wise the build clears trash on par with an AC build with some clear advantages. You can snipe large adds/elite packs with the bracers to game the timer. Where AC builds rely on or create their own density, this build thrives in lower pop rifts. The damage of sheild bash is not overpowered in the slightest at gr 40+, not op at 35+ either. It is what is necessary for the build to function. Was not able to test sweep, however looking at the BASE damge difference between a 2h flail, 2h polarm, 2h mace I'd say that a Golden Flense setup NOW would lose to either a furnace or heart slaughter. Handily.
Wrath management: The other side of AC being necessary for myself at the moment. I'll have to see how different focuses on my sets play out, in an ideal would I would be able to test a CDR,RCR,LOH, Glass cannon setup for the set.
Btag is jay#1401, I believe I'm in the top 50 for the ptr but can't remember what number exactly. These things are subject to sudden change so that may be already out of date. It should also be noted that the build I used was thrown together in a few moments, as well as the gems I use (Taegok, BoTT, Pain enhancer) would love to be rid of the PH but it takes forever to do anything on ptr, so tests with other gems will have to wait.
As far as trials go, I suspect that condemn would still crush the rolands set as far as maximum level of key, based on mechanics of play.
Lastly, and probably one of if not the most important thing: The set is a very fun very engaging play. As there are adjustments made I hope this isn't lost. Part of the fun is seeing the crits for billions, the other part is the intensive positional skill needed for the build. All in all it is a huge and wonderful upgrade from what the set was, even if it does need more tuning.
Haven't had a good one drop, I have had some other drops witch allowed me to go to 34 mill toughness before any cd's, need to craft an ancient prio though.
I may be wrong here but doesn't piro have a chance to roll higher block % (I'm thinking more damage from this) than FW? 70 shields crafted yesterday and only 3 ancients so hoping for better luck today. I'll keep my eye out for a FW in the meantime, thanks for the heads up mang : )
What cheese?
High gr would be 50 + and Spongebob hit it yesterday with a 51 in rolands. XD Check out the official forums bro he's got vids of his clears, pretty good stuff. You can see the lag in some cases and its pretty atrocious.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16491108969
The thread on bnet.
is everyone here using the corrupted ashbringer? i believe the damage proc is bugged hence why you are able to 1 shot everything so the damage that is done isnt that reliable to my knowledge