This is something i've found odd for a little while now, I see a lot of people using the battle rage rune "Marauder's Rage" which gives an additional 5% damage but almost nobody using Into the Fray which gives 1% more CC per target around you.
Now for me personally I only need 4 targets around me for Into the Fray to surpass Marauder's Rage in how much I gain and I can't think of a fight where there isn't atleast 4 targets around me so why is this rune just never used am I missing something?
Because paper damage isn't your real damage. It's not the real damage that gets multiplied by the skill's value. It doesn't take into account elemental damage, damage against elites and it includes atack speed and crit chance. It's not used because you can get around 45%-50% crit chance easy which is mostly sufficient to almost always crit thus making the rune less desirable then bloodshed or marauder's rage.
So your saying even though 5% cc on sheet gives me more damage, in reality 5% more damage would do more?
Because paper damage isn't your real damage. It's not the real damage that gets multiplied by the skill's value. It doesn't take into account elemental damage, damage against elites and it includes atack speed and crit chance. It's not used because you can get around 45%-50% crit chance easy which is mostly sufficient to almost always crit thus making the rune less desirable then bloodshed or marauder's rage.
That's totally wrong. All of those things will multiply to be the same percentage difference before and after counting the buff from either rune.
MR will give more steady dps and higher single target while ItF will give better burst and higher aoe. However, for aoe Bloodshed is by far the best rune.
Because paper damage isn't your real damage. It's not the real damage that gets multiplied by the skill's value. It doesn't take into account elemental damage, damage against elites and it includes atack speed and crit chance. It's not used because you can get around 45%-50% crit chance easy which is mostly sufficient to almost always crit thus making the rune less desirable then bloodshed or marauder's rage.
That's totally wrong. All of those things will multiply to be the same percentage difference before and after counting the buff from either rune.
MR will give more steady dps and higher single target while ItF will give better burst and higher aoe. However, for aoe Bloodshed is by far the best rune.
Nope your wrong on the first line but you are right about the Bloodshed rune. And Marauder's does increase the damage to single target. You should get your facts straight. Look at this video test for yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dk8xiG1ic0 . Character damage is not the damage you multiply. Search the forums.
I said that. o.0
I think maybe you're referring to ItF so let me clarify my wording:
MR will give more steady dps and higher single target [than ItF] while ItF will give better burst and higher aoe [than MR]. However, for aoe Bloodshed is by far the best rune.
I have no idea why you're linking to a wizard video but I presume it's for the math. The % dmg increase and % cc from both runes shows up on your sheet dps, all the hidden elemental dmg and elite dmg and everything else is going to multiply against both equally. If you have 1 million sheet dps with MR and 1.1 million with ItF (supposing you always have a certain # of mobs around you for ItF) then multiply each by 100% fire dmg then it will be 2 mill vs 2.2 mill which is still a 1:1.1 ratio ie. a 10% difference.
Now if you are using an ability that increases cc or chd like HotA does then the math will be affected and you will need to use a calculator, but there's not much need for doing the math since Bloodshed is so far ahead on aoe and MR is so far ahead for single target that you shouldn't bother with ItF at all unless you're trying to get cc up for some proc affect.
Ok, the guy who doesn't understand math aside, I don't think people use Into the Fray because in general Bloodshed is better for AoE and Marauder's Rage is better for bosses or single target.
phuzi0n is spot-on. The only time to use Into the Fray is if you really really want to crit more, at the expense of a little bit of damage loss or you want some sort of hybrid rune that does slightly more damage than Bloodshed on single targets and slightly more damage than Marauder's Rage on groups, but significantly less in the other situations.
what weapon u are using? if u are using dual wield like odyn son soh or soh tf, better use into the fray and ground stomp, because its easily swap white mobs. and bloodshed doesnt effect from proc weapon so into the fray with ww much much better, if u use hota go bloodshed
That's an interesting point, but even though bloodshed doesn't proc from weapon procs, it still adds a lot more damage to your actual skills than Into the Fray. I guess you'd need to compare (lower) bonus proc and skill damage versus (higher) bonus skill damage.
If you have 40% crit and 400% crit damage, Into the Fray adds (1 + 0.41 * 4) / (1 + 0.4 * 4) ~= 1.015, or about 1.5% bonus damage per target (this devalues slightly for each additional target), including the first target / single target
With the same stats, Bloodshed adds 20% * 40% = 8% bonus damage per target after the first
So, from your skills, Bloodshed will deal 1.5% less damage vs 1 target, but deal 5% more damage on two targets, 11.5% more on 3, and so on
Say you're fighting 10 targets. Bloodshed will deal about 57% additional skill damage compared to Into the Fray.
If you're fighting 10 targets, Into the Fray will deal about 15% additional proc damage compared to Bloodshed.
So, if your proc DPS is 4x greater than your skill DPS, Into the Fray would be better. If your odyn son/TF/SOH contributes less than 4x the DPS of your Whirlwind/Frenzy/HotA/etc, Bloodshed is still better for AoE.
Into the Fray will always be slightly superior for single target, but even with proc weapons, it looks like Bloodshed will be better for AoE.
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Now for me personally I only need 4 targets around me for Into the Fray to surpass Marauder's Rage in how much I gain and I can't think of a fight where there isn't atleast 4 targets around me so why is this rune just never used am I missing something?
MR will give more steady dps and higher single target while ItF will give better burst and higher aoe. However, for aoe Bloodshed is by far the best rune.
I think maybe you're referring to ItF so let me clarify my wording:
MR will give more steady dps and higher single target [than ItF] while ItF will give better burst and higher aoe [than MR]. However, for aoe Bloodshed is by far the best rune.
I have no idea why you're linking to a wizard video but I presume it's for the math. The % dmg increase and % cc from both runes shows up on your sheet dps, all the hidden elemental dmg and elite dmg and everything else is going to multiply against both equally. If you have 1 million sheet dps with MR and 1.1 million with ItF (supposing you always have a certain # of mobs around you for ItF) then multiply each by 100% fire dmg then it will be 2 mill vs 2.2 mill which is still a 1:1.1 ratio ie. a 10% difference.
Now if you are using an ability that increases cc or chd like HotA does then the math will be affected and you will need to use a calculator, but there's not much need for doing the math since Bloodshed is so far ahead on aoe and MR is so far ahead for single target that you shouldn't bother with ItF at all unless you're trying to get cc up for some proc affect.
phuzi0n is spot-on. The only time to use Into the Fray is if you really really want to crit more, at the expense of a little bit of damage loss or you want some sort of hybrid rune that does slightly more damage than Bloodshed on single targets and slightly more damage than Marauder's Rage on groups, but significantly less in the other situations.
If you have 40% crit and 400% crit damage, Into the Fray adds (1 + 0.41 * 4) / (1 + 0.4 * 4) ~= 1.015, or about 1.5% bonus damage per target (this devalues slightly for each additional target), including the first target / single target
With the same stats, Bloodshed adds 20% * 40% = 8% bonus damage per target after the first
So, from your skills, Bloodshed will deal 1.5% less damage vs 1 target, but deal 5% more damage on two targets, 11.5% more on 3, and so on
Say you're fighting 10 targets. Bloodshed will deal about 57% additional skill damage compared to Into the Fray.
If you're fighting 10 targets, Into the Fray will deal about 15% additional proc damage compared to Bloodshed.
So, if your proc DPS is 4x greater than your skill DPS, Into the Fray would be better. If your odyn son/TF/SOH contributes less than 4x the DPS of your Whirlwind/Frenzy/HotA/etc, Bloodshed is still better for AoE.
Into the Fray will always be slightly superior for single target, but even with proc weapons, it looks like Bloodshed will be better for AoE.