[GUIDE] How to become a sucessful and exceptional barbarian on inferno difficulty

  • #101
    Another 2 cents on the Frenzy Rune discussion:

    A lot of people say that sidearm has higher single target dps and also does some aoe but the aoe is only in one direction. Usually I charge in the middle of enemy packs, press shift and lmb for Frenzy and hit Revenge as soon as I can. The Maniac Rune is a flat 20% dmg increase for ALL of your skills as long as you keep your stacks up. Meaning Revenge will also hit 20% harder and my Furious Charge as well.

    On single target fights against bosses, Sidearm might be a bit better but if you calculate Revenge (even against only 1 target) with 20% more damage I guess that should even out both runes. The only scenario where I would say that Sidearm is better, is on elite packs with missile dampaning where the razor will spin multiple times and the bosses pretty much own themselves ^^
  • #102
    Now that this is on the front page, I'd really fix the arrangement in general. It still looks like your suggesting Seismic Slam and WotB over Leap and Furious Charge. You've edited them in with those red exclamation marks, actually stating that they're better for Inferno, but I don't think everyone will read everything, rather scroll through the images. Same thing with the Enchantress. Don't put her after the Templar but in front of him. It's named an Inferno guide but it really looks alot like "I used this, that and that through Hell and wrote this and then I learned in Inferno that I had to replace this and that with that and that" ;)
    And don't tell anyone that HotA is our best damage skill, please, seriously.
  • #103
    Quote from Solmyr77

    Now that this is on the front page, I'd really fix the arrangement in general. It still looks like your suggesting Seismic Slam and WotB over Leap and Furious Charge. You've edited them in with those red exclamation marks, actually stating that they're better for Inferno, but I don't think everyone will read everything, rather scroll through the images. Same thing with the Enchantress. Don't put her after the Templar but in front of him. It's named an Inferno guide but it really looks alot like "I used this, that and that through Hell and wrote this and then I learned in Inferno that I had to replace this and that with that and that" ;)
    And don't tell anyone that HotA is our best damage skill, please, seriously.


    Yeah you are right, i'll edit and fix this asap.


    Quote from Saenic

    Here are my 2 cents:

    - Blue text on red background, seriously? (thats even scientifically proven that eyes hurt with that combination because blue is on one end of the visible spectrum and red on the other end)

    - Enchantress: I personally find the "charm" spell does not really do what the tooltip says. The mob has an icon above the head and still attacks me, dunno I don't like it. I use the aoe knockback and it does aoe damage with a short cooldown, thats amazing. (My Enchantress has 3.6k damage... but thats not "weapon" damage... she has a 800 dps staff and ~2k int which results in 100% weapon damage beeing 16k)

    - I favor Battle Rage over Wrath of the Berserker. Surely with Wrath you can graveyard camp elites but for longer fights 30% damage increase all the time is better than 100%+ for 15sec.

    - You did not mention the most important passive for damage: Ruthless. It adds 5% crit chance and 50% critdamage. I myself now do have (with Battle Rage extra 3%) 30% critchance and 260% critdamage which is simply amazing. I crit for 30k with Frenzy and 50-60k with Revenge with a "shitty" 500 dps weapon.

    Gear

    Forget BiS lists, you can get good stuff relatively cheap. Sear the AH for items with Strength, Vit and All Resists. Items with STR and VIT



    Also there are no gameplay hints which I find important:

    Gameplay

    1. Use the "Shift" key. With shift + left mousebutton pressed you can just stand there and hit and you will hit anything that comes close to you. And if enemies run away, you will still hit them. The range is pretty high and without shift your character will run after the enemies as soons as they get one step away. The most important thing about it is, you can control when your character moves and when not. No more accidently running into plaquged or desecrated because your character chases the mob.

    2. Bind the "move" key. This might not be so important but can save your ass a few times. By defaut the "move" key is not bound... a lot of people bind "move" to space bar, I did bind it to my mouse thumb button. This key makes your character run to where you point. You might say that the left mousebutton does this as well but sometimes your screen is filled with mobs or the enemy is just too big and your character will attack instead of running. With the "move" key your character will move in the direction you are pointing and nothing else. Helped me save my ass a lot of times.


    Great guide, I always wanted to write up something as rich as this but I couldn't do it in the end. I must be slack off.

    I had read through the entire thread and felt these missing and could be very useful when choosing particular gear / skill over the other:

    Base Armor:

    Armor shown on all gear + Strength + Vitality (Nerves of Steel)

    *Shield adds on avg 1000 on your Base Armor without even counting block (will discuss below), it is a tough choice for barb to drop the shield due to the current situation of how the “Bonus Armor” work in game (see below)

    *Nerves of Steel adds your base armor which values more than some of the "Bonus Armor" skills (see below)


    Bonus Armor:

    Tough as Nails + Warcry + Enchantress/Powered Armor + Leap / Iron Impact

    *These works slightly different than “Base Armor”

    Example: A barb has 6 000 base armor, without any of the skills, after he / she equip / cast the following:

    “Tough as Nails” (25%)
    6 000 + 6 000 x 0.25 = 7 500 (1 500 gain, 25%)

    “Warcry” (20%)
    7 500 + 6 000 x 0.20 = 8 700 (1 200 gain, 16%) ***NOT 9 000, this is where a lot of people get confused, you can not use 7500 x 1.2 here, the bonus armor doesn't work towards other bonus armor.

    Enchantress/”Powered Armor” (15%)
    8 700 + 6 000 x 0.15 = 9 600 (900 gain, 10%)

    “Leap”(300%)
    9 600 + 6 000 x 3 = 27 600 (18 000 gain, 188%)


    Damage Reduction :

    For monsters at lv63 (Inferno act III/IV), the damage reduction works as below:

    DR% Armor = Armor / (Armor + mlvl*50) = Armor / (Armor + 3150) x 100%

    DR% Resistance = Resistance / (Resistance + mlvl*5) = Resistance / (Resistance + 315) x 100%

    *Armor works against all damage source including all elemental damage.

    Other % DR include “Reduce melee damage by %”, “Reduce range damage by %” or “Reduce damage done by elite %” etc etc

    Total Damage dealt:

    Damage x (100% - Armor DR%) x (100% - Resistance DR%) x (100% - Other %) x (100% - 30 native DR%)

    For a barb with 10 000 Armor, 1000 All resist, 20% reduction from melee attack from "String of Ears", a lvl 63 mob hits him / her for 500 000 damage, he / she takes:

    500 000 x (100% - 76%) x (100% - 76%) x (100% - 20%) x (100% - 30%) = 16128

    (by the way, there could be a typo of the barb passive damage reduction, I remember it was 30%, not 25%.)

    Some interesting discovery:

    The “String of Ears”
    For the above example, without taking the 20% into account.

    500 000 x (100% - 76%) x (100% - 76%) x (100% - 20%) x (100% - 30%) = 20160

    Compared to the result above

    20160 – 16128 = 4032 HP. (118 Vitality)

    If the mob hit for 2 x the damage, then it reduces even more to 8064 HP (236 Vitality)

    The interesting fact is that since all belt can offer “+ life %” as well as “+life leach %”. The common “String of Ears” is only great against heavy hitting monsters, and after patch 1.03, it could be less efficient. The best "String of Ears" could have great stats with best rolls are still currently the best belt to have.

    Life on Hit:

    A note for “Frenzy”, the trigger abilities such as “Life on Hit” or “Bleed” etc, are scaled down with 0.75 modifiers. This doesn’t mean “Life on Hit” in retrospect is less effective, however this does mean that barb gets less from “Frenzy” with "Life on Hit" compared with other skills. Still “Frenzy” is arguably the best skill right now for barb.

    My 2cents.

    Edited, correction for typos.


    And thanks for that, will add it in as soon as I have some spare time.

    Keep your comments and criticism coming guys! ;)
    HARDCORE T4 rift farm with a crusader, top 1 STR in the world, 6 Akkhan pieces! :o
  • #104
    I would also include gameplay hints, if you want you can copy & paste the ones I posted ;)
  • #105
    Great guide, now go make a monk one! :(
  • #106
    FYI, Furious charge can be used to break a Jail.

    Didn't see that mentioned in the main post. So, in addition to the great mobility and a heal, its a CC breaker too. I was skeptical about using this skill at first, but its utility is amazing.

    Edit: Also, just curious, why do you keep refering to it as 'FS'?
  • #107
    Anyone know of any good skill combinations?

    The ones I usually use are (depending on the build I am using at the moment):

    - Ignore Pain (Ignorance is Bliss) + WotB (Insanity or Thrive on Chaos) - Amazing combo. Probably my most used combo when dealing with champs and elites. Amazing when dealing with Invuln Minions affix. With Thrive on Chaos, you want to time it when Leap and War Cry are off cool down. I haven't tested it with Battle Rage (Into the Fray).
    - Ground Stomp (Wrenching Smash) + Furious Charge (Dreadnought) - Good survival combo. Ground Stomp makes it a lot easier to hit multiple enemies and provides a nice getaway.
    - Leap (Iron Impact) + Revenge (Provocation or Vengeance is Mine) - Usually use it on a group of trash mobs. With provocation I usually get 2 Revenge procs before Iron Impact resolves.

    Any others you guys use?

    Btw I am still working on Act 1 Inferno, need to do a bit of farming/gearing as I can't seem to make it to the Butcher just yet (killed skel king though).
  • #108
    Quote from devlolz666



    The further you progress through acts, the better gear you get. So inferno act IV drops the best gear in the whole game. You won’t be able to obtain 1k+ dps weapon by farming butcher endlessly on inferno act I. If you want to find out more about how to farm inferno gear, check out my other guide that you can find HERE.


    The link is missing there. Can you relink it?

    But anyway awesome guide which gave me back some hope to finish inferno mode (currently sitting on 550 resi all) in Act2 (start) and can't do a single champion (Wesps duck my sick!!).
  • #109
    all well and good, but how do you get the gear with the absolutely insane prices on AH and the near impossibility of upgrades from act 1 inferno?
  • #110
    Quote from Saenic
    2. Bind the "move" key. This might not be so important but can save your ass a few times. By defaut the "move" key is not bound... a lot of people bind "move" to space bar, I did bind it to my mouse thumb button. This key makes your character run to where you point. You might say that the left mousebutton does this as well but sometimes your screen is filled with mobs or the enemy is just too big and your character will attack instead of running. With the "move" key your character will move in the direction you are pointing and nothing else. Helped me save my ass a lot of times.


    No offense meant towards the OP and his fantastic Barbarian guide, but that was the single most game-changing thing in this entire 6 pages of conversation - for me, anyway. No more standing in plagued molten puddles because I'm fighting a champion pack that takes up most of my screen. And no more eating Belial fists because his hitbox is so big. I'd buy you a drink if you were local sir.
  • #111
    It's a really great generic barbarian guide to barbs for inferno, with some good item advice. To all of those disagreeing with the OP's guide, you have to realize it's a very general guide and that he doesn't necessarily disagree with the points you are making (ex. him suggesting seismic slam for belial and him not dissing on warstomp.) As for the OP's resist recommendations, he's suggesting bare minimums. Why exactly would you hate on a guy and call his guide silly when the guide says "You need 1k+ all resists for act 4"? It's not like he said "1k all resists is plenty." The + means something. You are more than welcome to write your own guides and I'm sure people will read them.

    The bottom line is that once you reach Act 2 Inferno as a Barb, the game is no longer a game. It's just boring work with zero fun involved. You can either farm gold and hit up the AH to get the gear for your gear dependent class, muscle through it or do something smart like make an alt. The smartest choice is to just play another game that's just more fun or go kill some time on D2.

    You're welcome to flame that last paragraph if you like, but just remember three things...

    1. A class that revolves around getting to a point where you can sustain yourself and just mash one button (Revenge) to faceroll mobs, is not a fun class. INCOMING OPINION THAT YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO HEAR! The introduction of health globes to this game have caused this to happen and have already caused irreparable damage to the game's design. Once they nerf revenge, you're either going to see several runes become lackluster health generators or you're just going to faceplam by your computer right after glancing at your barbarian sitting there at the character select screen.

    2. Fury is a garbage resource and is very poorly designed. The best Barbarian skills are either completely necessary, generate fury or cost zero fury with low cooldowns. The fury spending skills are hands down the worst skills in the game. Sure, say what you want about seismic slam, but it doesn't matter if it's a good skill if you have no room for it on your bar with a particular build. Being forced with a tough decision about even getting JUST ONE fury spender on your hotbar is a failure in design.

    3. There are absolutely no barbarians that are farming Inferno or have killed Diablo that are genuinely having fun, not even the ones doing Butcher runs. If they say they are having fun, they are lying to you. They will tell their friends in secret that they think it's boring or that they hate it. Kudos to the guys that muscled through it and did it first, but to all of the others, you have automatically lost by consciously deciding to continue playing a class with a broken resource system. The other classes can be and are more fun and there are DEFINITELY more fun games out there to play, and some are F2P. The joke's on you.
    Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
  • #112
    Just wanted to point out a few things about Leap with Iron Impact rune.

    You said...
    Quote from devlolz666

    It increases your armor by 300%, effectively tripling your armor!

    You kinda contradicted yourself, since it would actually be quadrupling it. Minor mistake, I'm sure it was just overlooked. :)

    Also, it seems that this does not take the passive "Tough as Nails" in to consideration but it does include "Nerves of Steel".

    Base Armor (a) = 5000
    Vitality (v) = 1000
    Nerves of Steel Bonus (s) = v = 1000
    Tough as Nails Bonus (n) = (a + s) * 0.25 = 1500
    Total Armor with Iron Impact = ((a + v) * 4) + n = 25500
  • #113
    WANT TO SURVIVE INFERNO?:

    Sword and board.
    War Cry (Impunity)
    Wrath of the Berserker (Insanity)
    Frenzy (Sidearm/Maniac)
    Ignore Pain (Iron Hide)
    Revenge (Provocation)
    Leap (Iron Impact)

    So the customization in inferno is all about whether if you take sidearm or maniac. Woah, billions of builds just turned into 2!
  • #114
    Quote from flyingkumquat

    Just wanted to point out a few things about Leap with Iron Impact rune.

    You said...
    Quote from devlolz666

    It increases your armor by 300%, effectively tripling your armor!

    You kinda contradicted yourself, since it would actually be quadrupling it. Minor mistake, I'm sure it was just overlooked. :)

    Also, it seems that this does not take the passive "Tough as Nails" in to consideration but it does include "Nerves of Steel".

    Base Armor (a) = 5000
    Vitality (v) = 1000
    Nerves of Steel Bonus (s) = v = 1000
    Tough as Nails Bonus (n) = (a + s) * 0.25 = 1500
    Total Armor with Iron Impact = ((a + v) * 4) + n = 25500


    This was pointed out before by someone. I tested it and how is it quadrupling itself? It is not, lets say that I have 9k armor. After using Leap with Iron Impact, it increases up to 27k armor.

    And if what you mean is that "increases your armor by 300%" actually means quadrupling, I just quoted blizzard tooltip.
    HARDCORE T4 rift farm with a crusader, top 1 STR in the world, 6 Akkhan pieces! :o
  • #115
    Quote from devlolz666

    Quote from flyingkumquat

    Just wanted to point out a few things about Leap with Iron Impact rune.

    You said...
    Quote from devlolz666

    It increases your armor by 300%, effectively tripling your armor!

    You kinda contradicted yourself, since it would actually be quadrupling it. Minor mistake, I'm sure it was just overlooked. :)

    Also, it seems that this does not take the passive "Tough as Nails" in to consideration but it does include "Nerves of Steel".

    Base Armor (a) = 5000
    Vitality (v) = 1000
    Nerves of Steel Bonus (s) = v = 1000
    Tough as Nails Bonus (n) = (a + s) * 0.25 = 1500
    Total Armor with Iron Impact = ((a + v) * 4) + n = 25500


    This was pointed out before by someone. I tested it and how is it quadrupling itself? It is not, lets say that I have 9k armor. After using Leap with Iron Impact, it increases up to 27k armor.

    And if what you mean is that "increases your armor by 300%" actually means quadrupling, I just quoted blizzard tooltip.


    If you increase 1 by 100%, how much do you end up with?

    Also, maybe you are not including War Cry which I forgot to add

    Base Armor (a) = 5000
    Vitality (v) = 1000
    Nerves of Steel Bonus (s) = v = 1000
    Tough as Nails Bonus (n) = (a + s) * 0.25 = 1500
    War Cry Bonus (w) = (a + s) * 0.20 = 1200
    Total Armor without Iron Impact = a + v + n + w = 8700
    Total Armor with Iron Impact = ((a + v) * 4) + n + w = 26700

    This would make it seem as though it only triples your armor, when really "War Cry" and "Tough as Nails" do not benefit "Iron Impact".
  • #116
    why people have so much problems with sand wasps? fast affix on them can be annoying but i managed sand wasps with fast/mortar/molten and arcane enchanted quite easily

    the thing about them is that you can kill them with little to no gear, as in their main dmg comes from their bug projectiles so just be patient, move around a lot to avoid them and eventually you will kill them, if they enrage find a dungeon, enter it and get back out, enrage goes away without them resetting their hp

    leap+charge helps quite a lot also
  • #117
    Thanks a lot for making this guide. Your guide and other players input gives some really solid info in playing a Barbarian at Inferno difficulty. I wish there were other guides like this for other classes.. especially WD ;).

    The real question here is How do you farm for this gear? I see in your post you have mentioned that you have written a gear farming guide but the link is missing as someone else has already pointed out. I've done a quick search for some of the items and the prices are near ridiculous for me right now where I have just 1m gold. The cheapest stormshield I could find is selling for close to 4m. How do you farm all this gold in Hell (no pun intended :P) to buy gear that will help you carry yourself through inferno?

    I've been doing previous acts starting at certain quest points where there are a lot of monsters to kill and gold to collect. I find A3 on the whole as a good area for this but this seems like an extremely tedious process. However I think it is more reliable than farming for the gear itself and hoping for something to drop as between playing my 2 chars (barbarian and WD) I have yet to find a useful drop. 90% of my gear has been bought from the AH : /

    Any insight would be helpful. Thanks :)
  • #118
    Will do some tweaking to the guide later this day.

    Also, I will be live streaming for the first time today (test stream to sort out quality and my fps), starting with some hardcore leveling and later possible doing some inferno act 2-4 farm. Stream starts in approximately 2-3 hours.
    HARDCORE T4 rift farm with a crusader, top 1 STR in the world, 6 Akkhan pieces! :o
  • #119
    Warning: This guide is awful. Very awful.

    Yes, it's great that people are trying to be helpful and writing guides. The formatting is good and it is well-written, but the contents of the guide is littered with garbage and wrong information. A lot of opinions and preferences are posted, but very rarely is any of it backed by math or logic.

    I'm wondering if you have cleared Act 4 Inferno at all, let alone at the time that you wrote this guide.

    -Seismic Slam is far from being an optimal Inferno skill. You only have six skills slots to fill, and Seismic Slam is a poor choice. I'm not saying that you can't clear Inferno with this skill on your bar. I just have no idea how anyone can advocate for this ability to be used in Inferno. Seismic Slam, like all fury dumps, uses your attack speed, but does not benefit from Frenzy. The time committed to using this ability takes away 1.75 Frenzy attacks. Even if it does more damage, you are investing one of six skill slots for a marginal damage increase and a possible stun. Why? Anyway, this ability (along with all Fury Spenders) needs to be seriously buffed by Blizzard.

    -Relentless is bad. First of all, fury dumps are piss poor in this game. This is pretty much common knowledge among top-level Barbarians. The rage reduction for abilities is insignificant. 50% damage reduction when your life is below 20% is seems like it's equivalent to a 10% health increase but it's actually not. A Barbarian's survival is based on achieving critical mass by healing faster than you are taking damage. Your main healing ability is based off of a percentage of your maximum health. Relentless does not help you in this respect.

    -Bash, HotA, and Rend are not viable. Bash is rendered outclassed by Frenzy. It does more There is really no reason to use Bash over Frenzy. HotA is not the "best ability in the game if you are going for pure damage". That is a load of horseshit. You might get a really big number from it, but that doesn't mean that it gives you the most overall DPS. You used Rend for a long time...in Normal? Nightmare? I thought this was an Inferno guide.

    -You are missing two of the best passives for Barbs: Ruthless and Weapon Mastery. Weapon Mastery is insane with Swords and Daggers. Ruthless is insane with crit builds, which is the highest DPS-output gear build in Inferno.

    -You do not need a minimum of X resist to do Act Y. This is one of the biggest misconceptions with Barbarian and now I know wh everyone seems to believe that. Resist is one of four stats that contribute to increasing your effective health. There is no reason to believe that it is any more or less important than the three others (Vit, Life%, Armor). Yes, it is important. But the way you have worded it is making Barbarians compromise other important stats to reach your imaginary targets. There is no logic behind those minimums.

    -Stat priority lists are compete nonsense. The nature of stats in ths game is that, the value of each stat is completely dependent of how many other stats you need. Also, it depends how much of each stat we're talking about here. If All Resist > Vitality, does that mean you would 10 All Resist over 200 Vitality? Really? If not, at what amount of Vitality would you take over 10 All Resist? It depends, doesn't it? That is why stat priority lists are complete nonsense and should never be posted. It causes confusion and ignorance among people who depend on your guide.

    -Best in Slot are not all Legendaries. That's preposterous. There is only a handful of Legendaries that are even considered decent at best. The items that you suggest complete contradict the stats that you recommend. There is no way you can get to 1000 All Resist by wearing the gear that you've suggested. Those items are Best in Slot, but you need 1000+ All Resist to beat Act 4. Do you see how this makes no sense?

    I bring this up because one of my pet peeves are people who try to teach something when they really don't have a clue themselves. People depend on others for information, and when people clutter up the internet with bad advice and bad information, it becomes a detriment to everyone else. Finding actually good advice becomes finding a needle in a stack of needles.

    People who are praising this guide don't realize that it's really bad. They are happy that they are given a direction to follow, not knowing that it is the wrong path. If someone was asking where California was, and you told him to travel East, he would be very happy, thank you, and then tell his wife about how helpful you were.

    I literally registered on these forums just to say this. I am not trolling. I am not trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to protect the best interest of Barbarians with Inferno aspirations. I am a Barbarian who cleared Act 4 Inferno (weeks ago), and I know a thing or two about this class. Anyone who knows anything about clearing Inferno on a Barbarian will tell you that this guide sucks shit.

    I'm sorry because it seems like you spent a lot of time and effort on it, and I know that your intentions are good, but this guide has done more harm than it has helped.
  • #120
    Quote from asfastasican

    3. There are absolutely no barbarians that are farming Inferno or have killed Diablo that are genuinely having fun, not even the ones doing Butcher runs. If they say they are having fun, they are lying to you. They will tell their friends in secret that they think it's boring or that they hate it. Kudos to the guys that muscled through it and did it first, but to all of the others, you have automatically lost by consciously deciding to continue playing a class with a broken resource system. The other classes can be and are more fun and there are DEFINITELY more fun games out there to play, and some are F2P. The joke's on you.


    Really? I had tons of fun during my journey to killing Diablo, and the time after that helping others accomplish the same. Yeah, the class has a broken resource system, but even being pidgeonholed into a single-viable spec for a sloppily-designed class in a sloppily-designed game, I had a ton of fun. I might have had more fun playing other games (You're right, D3 really isn't that great), but that is not to say that I didn't have a lot of fun.
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