In need of advice

  • #1
    Hello!

    I've tried to read and research as much as I can on the Barbarian builds (using HotA, WW doesn't feel right for me) and I've also been trying on different skills that would make things easier and also be as efficient as possible.

    Thing is that no matter how much I try, I can't figure out any upgrades that would be in decent prices for my Barbie (I'm not using RMAH, so I'll have to grind all my money) and always when I'm looking at the AH for upgrades, the ones in my price range would give me 1-10 STR more and pretty much nothing else, or I'd have to lose other stats more to improve more on STR/CHC/CHD or anything I'm trying to buff. Usually when I look for item to upgrade I have at least 3 to 5M gold gathered and still can't find anything that wouldn't require at least 200M. So where do I go wrong?

    Which items I should look with lower STR and higher something else and which to concentrate on STR/CHC? I'd like to keep my MF as high as possible, but it isn't mandatory if I can get to higher MP's. I'm currently running MP4 (sometimes MP3) and I can do MP5, though it's really hard and I tend to die a lot from time to time there... I also would like to be able to get my hands on Hellfire ring hence the high MF that I have tried to maintain. I have now 1 Destruction, 1 Hate and 6 Terrors, the plans are yet to be looted. I know that 3 of each Key is mandatory and I'm working my way up there. As 1.0.8 comes it'll be nicer to grind for the first two Keys.

    Is there some skills or skillrunes that I should consider changing, and if yes, what? These are just some skills I've found most working for me ATM while reading guides and trying and failing.

    Also, I like to use Skorn, currently looking to upgrade it to LS version, and what else should I look for in it?

    I know that there are too much already of these posts, but I can relate to creating one since I couldn't figure out on my own anymore what to do. Also, here are links to Pistonhead:

    http://eu.battle.net...502/hero/507406

    http://d3up.com/b/574946

    Thank you already in advance to anyone who takes time to explain the reasons to changes I should be making!
  • #2
    From checking out your gear I believe your focus on stacking magic find is holding you back. Ditch the magic find gear and concentrate on gearing up to run higher mp levels and grind out those paragon levels. Focus on stacking strength, crit chance + crit dmg.

    Firstly, swap out that IK chest, those purple gems are not helping you much. Buy the cheapest one you can find with around 120 str, 180 vit+ and fill the sockets with the biggest rubies you can.

    Drop the compass rose and get a rare ring with crit chance + crit dmg + str + vit and even av dmg if you can. Any att spd you can get on rings will help with the Skorn.

    You can buy an IK belt with around 250 str for pretty cheap since you don't need the vit.

    Regard the ls skorn, you've got the lifesteal from the belt and are using the passive also, so more ls is not really needed. Oh and I see you're using Rend Blood lust also.

    Hope this is of some use.
  • #3
    Ok could we focus back on MY barb ? ^^
  • #4
    Packing magic find is smart and I respect that you're trying to flip abilities around to make a build you feel better playing. I disagree that you should surrender and worship high monster powers because MP3-5 are the best levels to gain essences and further progress your character with minimal money.

    Before I ramble on about gear I would like to discuss a spec and the idea behind it. Cleave and Rend work great with Marauder's rage but including a high cost ability like HotA just doesn't fit if you're going for fluidity. Revenge with the Provocation rune works very well as a 'main nuke' that isn't bound to a fury cost or clunky for two-handers like HotA is. Warcry is just unnecessary after you roll a few proper items from essences so to further enhance your build you should look into Ground stomp with the Wrenching smash rune which is a great ability to bunch up rend+revenge large trash packs and lock down elites if you're having problems keeping up.

    The stats that most benefit the abilities you're using is strength, crit and crit dmg. The more damage you stack the more effective and easy if will be to keep yourself alive with Rend and Revenge so paying tons for something like a life steal Skorn when you coul get 300 strength and 200 vitality more instead is silly.

    Keep making shoulders and bracers until you get similar rolls with ~60 resistance on both items. Gaining it from anywhere else is really expensive and unnecessary. The compass rose is a nice idea but a horrible item so I suggest replacing it with any cold dmg Stone of Jordan with a 30 elite bonus. After you've corrected your resistance problem you should invest in a IK helmet for more crit.

    Like I mentioned earlier, magic find is great. The only problematic aspect of it is that the items that are at their cheapest (legendary items) come with fixated properties and one or two random properties. Sacrificing something that big for magic find might completely change the quality of the item. Nevertheless you can't expect to stay in the 5mil league forever, save up and upgrade.
  • #5
    I more-or-less agree with Strafir. However, if the OP were to pick up an SoJ, why not one with -5 HotA cost? He might have to spend longer shopping, but that's a 25% reduction in cost which would help make runs a lot smoother. It would come with extra max fury too, which is +2-3% extra crit chance on HotA assuming you keep Fury somewhere near the cap. I've been considering a similar build to this one with reduced HotA cost from Skorn and SoJ for after the eventual ToC nerf. I'd probably run Sprint: Marathon over Warcry and Rend: Ravage over Blood Lust though. It's a shame you can't get HotA cost reduction on belts.

    As an aside, I personally feel like a sloth without 24% movement speed from gear (especially without WotB active), but since you don't have Thrive on Chaos, it's not quite as necessary. I'd still try to pick up the other 12% at some point if you can though.
    ...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
  • #6
    Thanks for all the replies! I've started to make upgrades and changes to my gear and build. ATM I'm trying to get CHC and CHD up and maybe some AS also included. One of the main things has been also on concentrating to get EHP up with VIT and AR and maybe the next update I'll be making is crafting new shoulders and bracers. I've started to drop the MF off and so far it hasn't seemed to affect much at all to my drops.

    I had Ignore Pain which I changed to Warcry and it seems to be working since my resistances are way too low... As soon as I can get enough AR I'll be able to replace that skills (once again). For movement speed I've thought about getting Lacunis, but I guess ones with STR and AR are going to be expensive, thus delaying that for later.

    And for MP's I'm aware that 3-5 are maybe the most effective, but I do want to be able to grind MP10, at least for the personal joy that I can say that I have "mastered" Diablo 3 in all it's difficulties :D Of course it will be easier also to get my hands on Hellfire Ring when being able to do that in MP10.

    The fact that SoJ comes HotA reducing abilities was new to me. Haven't actually read much about SoJ ever. I guess it's pretty high priced at this moment, but maybe it'll be on the shopping list as soon as I can get some better grinding done.

    Once more, thanks for the insightful comments and replies! And Twoflowers, I'm sorry again, didn't mean to steal focus from your thread :(
  • #7
    Quote from creazur

    I had Ignore Pain which I changed to Warcry and it seems to be working since my resistances are way too low... As soon as I can get enough AR I'll be able to replace that skills (once again). For movement speed I've thought about getting Lacunis, but I guess ones with STR and AR are going to be expensive, thus delaying that for later.


    For boots, most barbs go with either Natalya's (with the ring as well for the set bonus) or Zunimassa's.

    As far as Warcry, remember that armor affects everything all resists affects, so if your armor is much higher than 10x your resists before Warcry, you'll do better with Hardened Wrath than Impunity.
    ...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
  • #8
    Quote from creazur

    I had Ignore Pain which I changed to Warcry and it seems to be working since my resistances are way too low... As soon as I can get enough AR I'll be able to replace that skills (once again). For movement speed I've thought about getting Lacunis, but I guess ones with STR and AR are going to be expensive, thus delaying that for later.

    And for MP's I'm aware that 3-5 are maybe the most effective, but I do want to be able to grind MP10, at least for the personal joy that I can say that I have "mastered" Diablo 3 in all it's difficulties :D Of course it will be easier also to get my hands on Hellfire Ring when being able to do that in MP10.

    The fact that SoJ comes HotA reducing abilities was new to me. Haven't actually read much about SoJ ever. I guess it's pretty high priced at this moment, but maybe it'll be on the shopping list as soon as I can get some better grinding done.


    Playing on higher monster powers isn't a problem, it infact is alot easier if you do the fundamentals right. I agree that you should embrace your strong sides even when it comes to defense but you should be cautious doing so. Both armor and resist are multiplicative stats which means they lose value the more you have of it:



    You need to get your passive resistance up for warcry to be even relevant and at that point it isn't worth sacrificing an ability slot for. Remember that strength also gives armor so you're already getting much more diminished returns than other classes. Keep the suppression from both sources as close to each other as possible.

    From personal experience of farming any monster powers I have never used more than 450 resistance and 7000 armor because the diminishing returns are too harsh and there are much better alternatives. I really meant it when I said that DPS is much more valuable than EHP because the healing from Rend with a 200-300k Skorn barb is ridiculous and adding Revenge/HotA to the mix with even a little life steal makes it even stronger. Getting more resist/armor is more expensive than getting more deeps and yields inferior overall results.

    I got the feeling that you aren't one of these players that want to play with sprint and worry about doing runs at max speed. The build I suggested is used by many hardcore players that look for stability while maintaining high dps. It's very much suggested that you aim for movement speed from boots too and you can basically choose from the alternatives tanis suggested but do remember that natalya's boots require a natalya's ring too to get the super setbonus.
  • #9
    That chart explained a lot actually. Looking at it makes me think that something like 6-7K armor and 500-600 AR should be more than enough. Natalya's boots and ring seem to be a worthy choice as it seems that both give solid boost to Barb also and the 7% CHC is massive bonus!

    You're right Strafir on the fact that I don't try to make as fast and efficient farming that most people seem to want. I prefer nice solid farming whilst killing a lot trash (I know it's not so worthy, but the SFX and graphical response that I get from good Cleave hit that explodes half the screen away is my highlight always :D ) and killing the elites fast also (trying to get them down under 15 seconds). My "farming" route in 1.0.7 has been Skycrown, Stonefort (getting NV5 and possible key), Keepdepths 1 and 2, Rakkis (reverse), Arreat 1 and Tower of Damned 1 (the circle from stairs to WP), Arreat 2 and finally The Core of Arreat. Now with 1.0.8 out I'm trying to think what I want to grind in Acts 1,2 and 4 also :)

    BTW, I have 5,8 LS ATM if I remember right. Is it enough? I have also some LoH, but I don't remember how much. As soon as I can get my Armor, Life and AR to sufficient levels (6-7K, 40-50K and 500-600) and DPS preferably to around 200K unbuffed I'd guess that I'd be able to do MP10. Or how much I have to have as the values in order to do MP10?
  • #10
    Quote from creazur

    BTW, I have 5,8 LS ATM if I remember right. Is it enough? I have also some LoH, but I don't remember how much. As soon as I can get my Armor, Life and AR to sufficient levels (6-7K, 40-50K and 500-600) and DPS preferably to around 200K unbuffed I'd guess that I'd be able to do MP10. Or how much I have to have as the values in order to do MP10?


    Life on hit doesn't serve a purpose for two-handed users because of the slow swing timers and hard hitting abilities, but the amount of life steal you have is more than enough. To further boost your damage I suggest replacing the bloodthirst passive with brawler. The blood lust rune already gives rend a passive 9 life steal and since revenge heals 5% of your total health per monster it hits you should be covered. Visually it isn't as fancy but Rend can actually crit and it does ALOT of damage, so much so that I would argue that with high enough damage gained from crit dmg, avg dmg, strength and elemental damage you are basically invincible as long as you keep a few crit Rends up.

    The patch highly encourages party play which makes MP10 alot less stressful and I don't see anything stopping you from playing there but it's alot less progressive for everything else than gaining good XP. So yes you CAN, but I don't advise doing it full time.
  • #11
    Quote from Strafir

    The patch highly encourages party play which makes MP10 alot less stressful and I don't see anything stopping you from playing there but it's alot less progressive for everything else than gaining good XP. So yes you CAN, but I don't advise doing it full time.


    I've been looking also the patch notes and I've been really happy for the changes. But my point is to make my Barb able to do it alone (with Templar by my side of course) and that is why I'm in need of advise :P I won't be playing there full time, but it's just for the sake of being able to do it when I want (and it will help a lot in getting the Hellfire Ring)

    Those changes to skills that you suggested seem to have a lot of potential on them, so I'm trying them out at some point soon. There seems to be a lot to test and change in both gear and skills still :) One thought has also been to try BT sets chest and boots to get decent EHP boost, what do you think of that?
  • #12
    Do whatever you feels best, messing up is the only way to understand better. I'll stick to my guns and keep saying that this version of the game is played with damage, not EHP. A few parts of the IK set is a good middle ground.
  • #13
    I do feel that you're right on that one. I just don't want to always follow everyone else (though my build and gear is looking like that more and more ATM) and I'm always trying to look for doable alternatives. Only problem is that the alternatives are almost non-existent in Diablo 3. I tried to build my barb at first without CHC and CHD which didn't work out. Only reason for that was to be different than others. Now I'll just try to think some other gear to use than the usual which is found on 90% barbs at least. Unfortunately it seems that it isn't worth it... :/
  • #14
    Quote from Twoflower

    Ok could we focus back on MY barb ? ^^


    Whatever admin was so kind as to separate the two threds, you could also delete that post I quoted ( and this one rigth here... ). They arent use much now that the two threads have been separated.
  • #15
    Quote from creazur

    I do feel that you're right on that one. I just don't want to always follow everyone else (though my build and gear is looking like that more and more ATM) and I'm always trying to look for doable alternatives. Only problem is that the alternatives are almost non-existent in Diablo 3. I tried to build my barb at first without CHC and CHD which didn't work out. Only reason for that was to be different than others. Now I'll just try to think some other gear to use than the usual which is found on 90% barbs at least. Unfortunately it seems that it isn't worth it... :/


    Mistakes may sting but you always learn something valuable in the process. To become this unstoppable killing machine you need to pick the abilities that scale best and then gear in a way that boosts those abilities the most and technically there are no limits to what items you use but some just make a ton more financial sense.

    Luckily most abilities scale very well from the crit/crit dmg combo so you'll have a larger sortiment to choose from.
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