Armored Barb

  • #1
    Hey Guys, new to the barb forums here so don't hate for my lack of knowledge.

    First I'd like to preface this post with I'm not the best I'm not looking to be the best nor do i have any intention to sit and farm for millions of hours to get gear, or pay 50 dollars for a single BiS piece of gear. I'm trying to see if it's currently viable to be an armored barb, as In getting as much armor as you can possibly throw on your character, which in some cases means a little less strength and even using a shield. The point of this build is to support, to go into a 4 person game and sit and tank the shit out of everything on Mp7+. A barb that can stand there and take minimal damage while still providing a decent amount of damage and make sure the other members can safely kill the enemy.

    Currently I'm LVL 47 trying to get to 60 and inferno to test out my gear that i've been buying on the cheap. Here's the current gear I have please feel free to suggest alts and better gear for my build, I'd be happy to try and buy some different gear and try out different skills with this build to maximize the efficiency of this build:

    Gear:

    MainHand:
    Blade of the Warlord - 1072.6DPS
    265-594 Holy Damage
    47% Damage
    199 STR
    11% IAS
    876 LoH
    20 Life/Fury spent

    (originally I was going for a big LoH build with shit tons of LoH but then decided to switch so i have another blade with prettyt much the same stats a lil less str and dps but very minimal)

    OffHand:
    Stormshield - 1157 Armor
    23% Chance to block
    3706-4706 Block Amount
    295 STR
    99 Int
    75 AR
    9% Chance to Block
    6% Melee damage reduction
    7% Elite damage reduction


    Helm:
    IK Triumph - 623 Armor
    175 STR
    10% Life
    204 Armor
    5% Crit Hit Chance
    6% Melee Damage reduction
    Socket


    Chest:
    IK Eternal Reign - 825 Armor
    178 STR
    80 VIt
    26 PSN Res
    73 AR
    373 Armor
    3 Sockets
    ( Should I put Amy or ruby in these?)

    Boots:
    IK Stride - 331 Armor
    151 STR
    43 DEX
    93 VIT
    75 AR
    12% Move
    13% CC reduction


    Gloves:
    N/A

    Bracers:
    N/A

    Amulet:
    N/A

    Ring 1:
    N/A

    Ring 2:
    N/A

    Belt:
    N/A

    Currently Have no good Gloves, Amulet, Rings, Belt, Shoulders, Bracers. I've got a ways to go but I can get there no problem. Just gotta do some gold farming and find some good items to buy off the AH for cheap. Remember I'm not looking to use bils of gold I'm seeing if this is a viable play style for an average player who farms a bit but not a whole hell of a lot.

    Skills:

    LMB: Frenzy - Triumph
    RMB: WW - Wind Shear
    1: War Cry - Invigorate ( Thinking about putting this to the one that boosts the armor bonus to 40%)
    2: OverPower - Crushing Advance
    3: Revenge - Vengance Is Mine
    4: Rend - Blood Lust

    Remember I'm still just LVL 47 so I cant use all skills yet Ideally on Overpower I'd use the rune which gives me back life, and on WW I was thinking of using the Volcanic one for some more damage, considering I can't use the one that heals me cause I don't have lots of crit gear.


    Currently Have no good Gloves, Amulet, Rings, Belt, Shoulders, Bracers. I've got a ways to go but I can get there no problem. Just gotta do some gold farming and find some good items to buy off the AH for cheap. Remember I'm not looking to use bils of gold I'm seeing if this is a viable play style for an average player who farms a bit but not a whole hell of a lot. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have for me
    Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!


  • #2
    With the upcoming group play buffs its great to see someone take the initiative to become the pillar that every solid group needs. What you described is more like a tank in world of warcraft but because the quantity of monsters is so much larger in diablo and you cannot control them by threat or a 'taunt' function as frequently you need to modify a few things. Don't get me wrong, a barb is most of all designed to fill such a 'tank' slot and has a very versatile ability and passive tree to get everything your party wants.

    With this class, especially with the task you want to fulfil, gear isn't as important as the abilities and passives you choose. Stacking armor and resistance extensively would of course suppress your damage intake alot, but doing so would also decrease the amount of abilities you would have fury to spend on. To put it in other words, YOU would gain something while your group would lose more.

    There really is no conventional way of playing a tank for a group because pretty much every ability slot you have will be linked to aid the greater good instead of just you, here are a few very interesting suggestions I would look more into:
    • Threatening Shout - Demoralize (TS)
    • Ground Stomp - Wrenching Smash (GS)
    • Sprint - Forced March (Sprint)
    • Hammer of the Ancients - Thunderstrike (Hota)
    • War Cry - Impunity (WC)
    • Ignore Pain - Ignorance is Bliss (IP)
    • Revenge - Provocation (R)
    There are far better choices for abilities and runes if you wanted to serve yourself, but what we're trying to achieve is a build that lets others glasscannon up because you're the one taking the damage.

    ~~~~~~~

    Consider yourself lucky because Strength gear for the mediocre player is very cheap, weapons are the reason budgets get destroyed. Like stated before there is no need to go overboard with armor and resistance, you want offensive stats too to be able to fuel your frequent usage of fury. There are more offensive limits for your group to overcome than defensive ones.

    Most barb healing abilities (revenge for example) return health based on a percentage of your max HP pool. While the tooltips might seem almost weak, I assure you that after you get a good 60k HP with a shield and the defensive bonuses your build grants you won't see yourself dying without having half an instance on you at once.

    You're already gimping your performance as a damage dealer with the build your using, but there is no need to gimp yourself even further by using all defensive items too. Stick to the norms and get alot of offensive stats like crit, crit dmg and average damage because it doesn't just increase your damage but helps you get more fury that you desperately need.

    Shields don't get the same attention the rest of items do, so if you search enough you will find an extremely good one for barely any money at all. Stick to sacred shields with crit and a block chance of atleast 18, preferably above 25.
  • #3
    I am doubtful because of two things :

    1 : this is a action rpg. Every class can beat the game by themself. Nobody needs a tank. At least not if everybody in the group is geared enugh for the level you try to clear. Above that, you dont realy have tanking mechanics ( like thread and aggro in WoW ) so you will not be able to tank like in a MMORPG.

    But yes, all that aside, maybe sometimes you need somebody to "tank". But then comes my second point :



    2 : What exactly is the purpouse of going defensive ? Why not play the normal hota/rend build and do the tanking while also doing damage? You dont realy need the additional survivability compared to a hota/Rend build. Unless, again, you are doing a level that you dont have the gear for.

    Not that I want to pull you down, but both builds can tank, just the defensive build with nothing but vita and resists just does not do damage while the rend/hota build can also stand in the middle of things, tank, AND do damage in the same time.
  • #4
    Ye thats wow mentality, theres no tanks in d3 bcs every1 is the tank. dont gimp ure dmg trying to achiev higher defence. the more dmg u deal the more u lifesteal and ure sustained like that...
    ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ YAVYRED ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯
  • #5
    People really need to get away from this ME ME ME mentality...
  • #6
    My whole intent for this build is to say oh we have guys who can do MP7 decently, now with me as a tank I can sit there and tank MP10 while they finish the enemies off. I mean it's not the most practical build or the best by far, I was just seeing its viability.

    Strafir thanks for the skills I didn't even look at some of those, namely the ones that taunt. I'm also not skimping on STR gear, I mean I am most certainly looking for gear with a good deal of Str, and Vit to them. Crit chance and crit dam are okay if i can get them but aren't a priority, IAS is more important to me right now, and LOH.
    Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!


  • #7
    Threatening Shout with the taunt rune has another unmentioned quality which is that it works kind of like a AOE silence too because ranged (doesn't have to be casters) mobs will stop casting and be forced to walk into your melee range, it doesn't last for the whole duration of TS but something like 4-5s after its cast.

    Some people use this on hardcore with groups that feel like farming keys etc in dangerous territory, but its risky because the amount of swings you will soak during the next 4-5 seconds is very high. To survive this on a regular basis I recommended the Ignore pain Shieldwall and Ground stomp with the long range stun.

    If you start off by taunt silencing, then use shieldwall to suppress incoming damage and then use your 24y aoe stun you will have very large groups of monsters on lockdown in a bunch for a long time, and since your party will probably be aoe heavy I don't see how the mobs wouldn't die in that time. And your party would literally have taken 0 damage during the whole process.

    Because mob density is getting buffed this much, revenge with provocation will be a very reliable and strong source of health so I think you're looking too much into the whole life on hit thing. For LOH you need attack speed and will still be overwhelmed when you take damage from too many sources at once, life steal requires high damage to be effective but revenge and life per second passives like inspiring presence only requires you to stack HP to be REALLY strong. The problem with Ias is that it only supports flimsy attacks like frenzy or bash while your main damage source Revenge gets completely neglected.

    I haven't had the energy to test my options too thoroughly but to have enough fury for everything I doubt that just what you generate from frenzy will do, so either Battle Rage with Into the Fray or Overpower with Momentum should be part of the build too. Battle rage is probably the more geared players choice since it requires crit to work.
  • #8
    Quote from Strafir

    People really need to get away from this ME ME ME mentality...


    It's not about me me me. Sometimes people who disagree with you can have a point, too.

    Quote from Enty

    My whole intent for this build is to say oh we have guys who can do MP7 decently, now with me as a tank I can sit there and tank MP10 while they finish the enemies off.


    Wouldnt a CM wiz be better for that?




    Anyway, on topic :

    probably a play style close to what we did when D3 first came out would be best then. Stack vit, armor, allres, hide behind your shield, have taunt and ground stomp ( with the rune that pulls enemies in ) and revenge with provocation. You can stand in the middle of mobs all day with that setup.

    But I still think a CM wiz would do better crowd control and more damage.
  • #9
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from Strafir

    People really need to get away from this ME ME ME mentality...


    It's not about me me me. Sometimes people who disagree with you can have a point, too.

    Quote from Enty

    My whole intent for this build is to say oh we have guys who can do MP7 decently, now with me as a tank I can sit there and tank MP10 while they finish the enemies off.


    Wouldnt a CM wiz be better for that?




    Anyway, on topic :

    probably a play style close to what we did when D3 first came out would be best then. Stack vit, armor, allres, hide behind your shield, have taunt and ground stomp ( with the rune that pulls enemies in ) and revenge with provocation. You can stand in the middle of mobs all day with that setup.

    But I still think a CM wiz would do better crowd control and more damage.


    See this is my point exactly. Why do i need a CM wiz with gear that's worth 100's of bils to do MP10? What about Build Diversity? See if there were some more diversity we could have an Mp10 run with a tank in there, and then the wizard could do a Frost build which is becoming increasingly popular, or a hell even have a WD in the party with summons to help tank and then have him spread a locust swarm to the entirety of the mob... Why do we need a CM wiz? why do we need a hota/rend Barb? why do we need a Archon Wiz? I think that if we can get this single build here to work effectively in a group of four on MP10 this would open up worlds of possibilities to build diversity. You'd be able to have people actually use various skills and glasscannon up without having to worry about dying or really taking much damage. You'd have people messing around with meteor, and mirror image, and time warp and disintigrate, and ray of frost and arcane orb. OR a WD with Mass Confusion, locust swarm plague of toads, corpse spiders. Something other than the norm, cause they wouldn't need a specific build to get through MP10. See what I'm saying? That's why, to me this is a pretty important opportunity here. Sure It may not be the most efficient at farming but it makes a world of a difference to people who like to play with their own little niche builds that they are comfortable with. And if they can't hit MP7+ then y'know this build may open that opportunity for them, maybe they'll be able to say hey now I can go into a game on mp7+ and beat it, and get the keys maybe, and get to the ubers for my first time. Not saying it'll be easy but at least it opens the door to those who don't want to be a CM/Archon wiz, or another extremely common build.



    Quote from Strafir

    Threatening Shout with the taunt rune has another unmentioned quality which is that it works kind of like a AOE silence too because ranged (doesn't have to be casters) mobs will stop casting and be forced to walk into your melee range, it doesn't last for the whole duration of TS but something like 4-5s after its cast.

    Some people use this on hardcore with groups that feel like farming keys etc in dangerous territory, but its risky because the amount of swings you will soak during the next 4-5 seconds is very high. To survive this on a regular basis I recommended the Ignore pain Shieldwall and Ground stomp with the long range stun.

    If you start off by taunt silencing, then use shieldwall to suppress incoming damage and then use your 24y aoe stun you will have very large groups of monsters on lockdown in a bunch for a long time, and since your party will probably be aoe heavy I don't see how the mobs wouldn't die in that time. And your party would literally have taken 0 damage during the whole process.

    Because mob density is getting buffed this much, revenge with provocation will be a very reliable and strong source of health so I think you're looking too much into the whole life on hit thing. For LOH you need attack speed and will still be overwhelmed when you take damage from too many sources at once, life steal requires high damage to be effective but revenge and life per second passives like inspiring presence only requires you to stack HP to be REALLY strong. The problem with Ias is that it only supports flimsy attacks like frenzy or bash while your main damage source Revenge gets completely neglected.

    I haven't had the energy to test my options too thoroughly but to have enough fury for everything I doubt that just what you generate from frenzy will do, so either Battle Rage with Into the Fray or Overpower with Momentum should be part of the build too. Battle rage is probably the more geared players choice since it requires crit to work.


    Thanks for the build I'm going to be on today playing around and getting to 55 at least I'm trying. Def going to rethink my build at the end, very good suggestions and I'm def including that in my end game build.

    To your point on LoH and IAS what then do you think i should use as my main hand? a rare with vit? or do you have a better legendary suggestion?

    I was looking through the one handed legendary's and Doombringer seems to have a nice life % with a 7% chance to block, it can give me STR too not too much but max 129 and min 112 so i guess it's not too bad, and it also gets and extra property which could roll vit . Maybe a Devil Tongue for the vit and STr with the chance to roll some more vit

    The Empyrean Messenger also looks decent, nice AR, all stats, and increased damage to elites.

    IDK we'll have to try everything out at some point.
    Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!


  • #10
    Quote from Enty

    Thanks for the build I'm going to be on today playing around and getting to 55 at least I'm trying. Def going to rethink my build at the end, very good suggestions and I'm def including that in my end game build.

    To your point on LoH and IAS what then do you think i should use as my main hand? a rare with vit? or do you have a better legendary suggestion?

    I was looking through the one handed legendary's and Doombringer seems to have a nice life % with a 7% chance to block, it can give me STR too not too much but max 129 and min 112 so i guess it's not too bad, and it also gets and extra property which could roll vit . Maybe a Devil Tongue for the vit and STr with the chance to roll some more vit

    The Empyrean Messenger also looks decent, nice AR, all stats, and increased damage to elites.

    IDK we'll have to try everything out at some point.


    There are alot of peculiar weapons and items out there, but they all share the same problem which is outdated roll capabilities. There has been a ton of talk about rethinking old legendaries to atleast let them roll with the 63 ilvl capability which would open alot of new doors. But for now I would stick to either of Axe or Mace because they are the most identified ones and will most likely offer the largest variety of stats to choose from. Bonuses the weapon master passive should also taken into consideration.

    A weapon is much easier to find than a really good shield so your time should be spent accordingly.
  • #11
    Quote from Strafir

    Quote from Enty

    Thanks for the build I'm going to be on today playing around and getting to 55 at least I'm trying. Def going to rethink my build at the end, very good suggestions and I'm def including that in my end game build.

    To your point on LoH and IAS what then do you think i should use as my main hand? a rare with vit? or do you have a better legendary suggestion?

    I was looking through the one handed legendary's and Doombringer seems to have a nice life % with a 7% chance to block, it can give me STR too not too much but max 129 and min 112 so i guess it's not too bad, and it also gets and extra property which could roll vit . Maybe a Devil Tongue for the vit and STr with the chance to roll some more vit

    The Empyrean Messenger also looks decent, nice AR, all stats, and increased damage to elites.

    IDK we'll have to try everything out at some point.


    There are alot of peculiar weapons and items out there, but they all share the same problem which is outdated roll capabilities. There has been a ton of talk about rethinking old legendaries to atleast let them roll with the 63 ilvl capability which would open alot of new doors. But for now I would stick to either of Axe or Mace because they are the most identified ones and will most likely offer the largest variety of stats to choose from. Bonuses the weapon master passive should also taken into consideration.

    A weapon is much easier to find than a really good shield so your time should be spent accordingly.


    My Shield if you look at it is really good, max roll on everything but Armor, and then as my extra random magic property i almost got a max roll of 100 str, which is pretty damn good if you ask me, I don't really see much else i could to to make it better. Instead of 95 str maybe 95 vit would be better but for now I feel like that's a pretty solid shield. I bought it for i think 500k too, they're incredibly cheap shields due to the low demand.

    With the weapons master bonuses I feel like swords are the best, if you're looking for a balance between damage and armor. Still tanky but able to dish out. Swords gain a straight 15% damage buff so that's pretty good, especially if you're rocking 1.1k dps or higher. I'd say mighty weapons come close second because the build we have set right now relies on fury and currently the weapons master bonus gives 3 extra fury per enemy hit, and today i was playing a bit with skills, put on TS - Demoralize, and GS-Wrenching Smash, and IP - Ignorance is bliss, on Nightmare this build is currently working as intended I rarely ever lose health, because my item is a 330 DPS axe with 800 LOH and I'm using cleave as my LMB so every enemy hit gives me 800 LoH. Plus it does more base damage than frenzy and mobs, this coupled with WW has proven to be pretty effective thus far.

    I feel like we've neglected Passives and that's pretty much my fault for not including them in the build, but i was looking throguh them and saw some nice ones, mainly Superstition which reduces all non-Physical damage by 20% and every time you get hit with an elemental or ranged attack you gain 3 fury, very useful considering when taunted you're the center of attention for 3 secs which will allow you to generate a decent amount of fury. Tough as nails is my second choice because it gives a straight 25% armor bonus, plus Thorns damage is increased by 50%, Hopefully when they redo the Topaz gem they make a much better thorn modifier, hopefully a % based on your Damage or armor would be nice and that would help in that regard. For a 3rd I was thinking about Brawler because you're always guaranteed to have more than 3 enemies around with the mob density changes plus they'll all be around you anyway with GS and TS. The other option would be Animosity instead of Brawler because it gives you 20% extra fury generation, and increases max fury by 20.
    Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!


  • #12
    There are plenty of controversial passives that work with the build we're trying to establish.

    Health globes aren't considered a serious source of gaining health but its been proven by plenty of other classes and players on hardcore that they surely can make a big difference if you specialize in them. I've played with Pound of Flesh before and come to understand that the scrawny sounding drop increase from it actually makes a very big difference. The coming density only makes it better and lets not overlook the fact that you aren't just healing yourself but your whole group.

    Revenge with its 5% heal is already very strong when you get enough health, now imagine that one passive slot could offer a 4% heal every second (even when out of combat) not just for you but the whole group because thats what Inspiring Presence will do after the patch.

    I'm glad to hear that you're doing well on the healing front but don't overdo it. The point is to find a balance where you feel comfortable and then start prioritizing for more output. It's become a trend that expensive weapons must have either life on hit or life steal (preferably the second), but because this build is so bulky we can manage to skip those stats atleast on weapons and gain more beneficial stats instead for a smudge of the price.

    To avoid heavy diminishing returns you want to have your armor and resistance as close to each other as possible and since you're already getting armor from strength its not suggested to go for the flimsy armor passives to further increase the gap. Superstition and Relentless on the other hand offer very strong defensive alternatives.

    Weapon Master and Ruthless are two very simple and good offensive stat boosts but neither can compete with Brawler just like you said.

    While there are other passives left I would suggest sticking to the ones mentioned above because what the others offer is achieved too easily by just picking the right set of items to wear.
  • #13
    Quote from Enty

    1: My Shield if you look at it is really good, max roll on everything but Armor, and then as my extra random magic property i almost got a max roll of 100 str, which is pretty damn good if you ask me, I don't really see much else i could to to make it better. Instead of 95 str maybe 95 vit would be better but for now I feel like that's a pretty solid shield. I bought it for i think 500k too, they're incredibly cheap shields due to the low demand.

    2 : See this is my point exactly. Why do i need a CM wiz with gear that's worth 100's of bils to do MP10? What about Build Diversity? See if there were some more diversity we could have an Mp10 run with a tank in there, and then the wizard could do a Frost build

    3 : Sure It may not be the most efficient at farming but it makes a world of a difference to people who like to play with their own little niche builds that they are comfortable with.


    1 : your shield does not seem to have vit on it ? But int instead ? if you are realy going for a def build, and I mean full def, then vitality is certainly a stat you want on every item. try to break that 200k life barrier :)

    2, 3 : CM wiz is actualy so popular because you need very little gear to be able to freezelock and CC mobs. You can do mp10 with gear worth less than a million if you get some lucky deals.

    All I get is those standart "lemme do my niche build" replies but I still think that the question is legit : Wouldnt a cm wizard do what you want to do with more crowd control, more dps and for less gold?

    Well, less gold probably not. If you go defensive enugh on your items, they will hardly cost a thing, cause nobody goes for purely defensive items any more. You will maybe even find a hard time finding them in the AH.

    Speaking of passives : nerves of steal, tough as nails and superstition if you want to go full def. You dont need life regen on the passive as long as you are going with revenge and a high life pool.

    And please go full def if you want to do that. Dont add one damage passive and a few sporadic damage stats on items here and there. You will not do damage, period.
  • #14
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from Enty

    1: My Shield if you look at it is really good, max roll on everything but Armor, and then as my extra random magic property i almost got a max roll of 100 str, which is pretty damn good if you ask me, I don't really see much else i could to to make it better. Instead of 95 str maybe 95 vit would be better but for now I feel like that's a pretty solid shield. I bought it for i think 500k too, they're incredibly cheap shields due to the low demand.

    2 : See this is my point exactly. Why do i need a CM wiz with gear that's worth 100's of bils to do MP10? What about Build Diversity? See if there were some more diversity we could have an Mp10 run with a tank in there, and then the wizard could do a Frost build

    3 : Sure It may not be the most efficient at farming but it makes a world of a difference to people who like to play with their own little niche builds that they are comfortable with.


    1 : your shield does not seem to have vit on it ? But int instead ? if you are realy going for a def build, and I mean full def, then vitality is certainly a stat you want on every item. try to break that 200k life barrier :)

    2, 3 : CM wiz is actualy so popular because you need very little gear to be able to freezelock and CC mobs. You can do mp10 with gear worth less than a million if you get some lucky deals.

    All I get is those standart "lemme do my niche build" replies but I still think that the question is legit : Wouldnt a cm wizard do what you want to do with more crowd control, more dps and for less gold?

    Well, less gold probably not. If you go defensive enugh on your items, they will hardly cost a thing, cause nobody goes for purely defensive items any more. You will maybe even find a hard time finding them in the AH.

    Speaking of passives : nerves of steal, tough as nails and superstition if you want to go full def. You dont need life regen on the passive as long as you are going with revenge and a high life pool.

    And please go full def if you want to do that. Dont add one damage passive and a few sporadic damage stats on items here and there. You will not do damage, period.


    Few things pisses me off as much as to see someone ignore previous posts and come forth with ridiculous claims and suggestions. Because you haven't taken the time to read through what's been discussed you've not understood that instead of providing one support task like the slow CM wizard does we want to do multiple things for the group because that is what this class is clearly designed for more than others.

    Threads like these are for people to throw around ideas how to become more than just a 200k HP unkillable meatshield that does basically no damage and if you don't have anything progressive to share then don't comment at all.
  • #15
    This could become a lot more effective when they buff lifereg in the next patch. Putting the lifereg rune in warcry + the passive giving you 4% hp per second after using a shout.... You will be invincible. at only 40k hp this will already give you +/- 600 + 1600 hp per second. That is A LOT.

  • #16
    Quote from Strafir

    Few things pisses me off as much as to see someone ignore previous posts and come forth with ridiculous claims and suggestions. Because you haven't taken the time to read through what's been discussed you've not understood that instead of providing one support task like the slow CM wizard does we want to do multiple things for the group because that is what this class is clearly designed for more than others.

    Threads like these are for people to throw around ideas how to become more than just a 200k HP unkillable meatshield that does basically no damage and if you don't have anything progressive to share then don't comment at all.


    Nice way of again ignoring my question and getting personal.

    Obviously you dont read my posts either, otherwise you could have answered my question by now.

    Pot calling the kettle black much ? But I'll leave you with this, obviously your ego is too big to allow other ideas.
  • #17
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from Enty

    1: My Shield if you look at it is really good, max roll on everything but Armor, and then as my extra random magic property i almost got a max roll of 100 str, which is pretty damn good if you ask me, I don't really see much else i could to to make it better. Instead of 95 str maybe 95 vit would be better but for now I feel like that's a pretty solid shield. I bought it for i think 500k too, they're incredibly cheap shields due to the low demand.

    2 : See this is my point exactly. Why do i need a CM wiz with gear that's worth 100's of bils to do MP10? What about Build Diversity? See if there were some more diversity we could have an Mp10 run with a tank in there, and then the wizard could do a Frost build

    3 : Sure It may not be the most efficient at farming but it makes a world of a difference to people who like to play with their own little niche builds that they are comfortable with.


    1 : your shield does not seem to have vit on it ? But int instead ? if you are realy going for a def build, and I mean full def, then vitality is certainly a stat you want on every item. try to break that 200k life barrier :)

    2, 3 : CM wiz is actualy so popular because you need very little gear to be able to freezelock and CC mobs. You can do mp10 with gear worth less than a million if you get some lucky deals.

    All I get is those standart "lemme do my niche build" replies but I still think that the question is legit : Wouldnt a cm wizard do what you want to do with more crowd control, more dps and for less gold?

    Well, less gold probably not. If you go defensive enugh on your items, they will hardly cost a thing, cause nobody goes for purely defensive items any more. You will maybe even find a hard time finding them in the AH.

    Speaking of passives : nerves of steal, tough as nails and superstition if you want to go full def. You dont need life regen on the passive as long as you are going with revenge and a high life pool.

    And please go full def if you want to do that. Dont add one damage passive and a few sporadic damage stats on items here and there. You will not do damage, period.


    See my point here isn't to be full Def, It's not to be the most efficient, it's meant to open opportunities for build diversity. Cm wiz might be the "most Efficient" but I know as a wizard with some good gear, I like playing a Frost build, and one day I might be like I like a molten build. So I dont necessarily want to be forced into a build such as CM to be able to try MP10. If I could have someone tank and soak damage then I could go with whatever I want as long as I have a decent DPS. Sure it'd take longer and wouldn't be as efficient but I'd be having a blast fucking shit up with spells I think look awesome and function well together.

    I'm not saying I can throw any build together and make it useful but I'm saying there are other builds that could work if you had more time to kill a monster, or a way to stay away from the damage. This opens those up because as of right now, you need one of these awesome builds and some pretty awesome gear to be able to survive the later difficulties and complete them. They should be hard to defeat, and they should be challenging but to the point where I'm forced into 1 of 2 builds to do it is not fun. It's the opposite of fun and in fact bores me to death.

    Some people like CM and Archon wiz, or a Hota/Rend barb but that's not me. As a Barb I want to dish out decent damage don't really care if its about 50k-100k buffed I'd be fine, as long as I can stand there and be like "Hah your puny attacks do not harm me!". As a wizard I understand I'm not supposed to be in close, but as of right now my wizard has a soild 60k HP and can be pretty tanky at times. But for my build to work I have to be that tanky. I'm a frost Wiz I use Blizzard Sleet Storm Time Warp sparkflint Ice Armor and blood magic. It's imperative I'm tanky because no one else is and therefore I must do it myself and get up in the enemies face for my build to be effective. Certain people like to be tanky and certain people don't but If I have no choice then what's the point it won't be fun to someone who doesn't want to do the requirement.
    Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!


  • #18
    Quote from Enty

    See my point here isn't to be full Def, It's not to be the most efficient, it's meant to open opportunities for build diversity. Cm wiz might be the "most Efficient" but I know as a wizard with some good gear

    I'm not saying I can throw any build together and make it useful but I'm saying there are other builds that could work if you had more time to kill a monster, or a way to stay away from the damage. This opens those up because as of right now, you need one of these awesome builds and some pretty awesome gear to be able to survive the later difficulties and complete them.

    Some people like CM and Archon wiz, or a Hota/Rend barb but that's not me. As a Barb I want to dish out decent damage don't really care if its about 50k-100k buffed I'd be fine, as long as I can stand there and be like "Hah your puny attacks do not harm me!".


    I keep bringing up CM cause to me it is the best crowd control / tank build I have seen in ANY build for any class so far in Diablo3. But if that is not your main ( or only ) goal, then I understand that you want to keep looking. What I realy like about the CM is that you can 100% crowd control, you can freeze them buggers in place till they are dead. The other players in your group can walk around with 1 HP and the weirdest builds they want, frozen monsters still can not harm them.



    What I miss a little bit are clear goals with your build.

    So what I see as goals so far are :

    - high survivability
    - crowd control
    - keeping monsters busy so that others can kill them
    - still doing decent damage. ( what decent means still has to be defined more precisely, and is mostly depending on your budget anyway... )



    I can kinda see a barb stacking survivability stats, running around with taunt and ground stomp and bash ( stun ) and seismic slam ( Stun ) and ancient spear to pull enemies away from group members. But only kinda.

    Something like this : http://eu.battle.net...edgk!ebV!acaaYc ?

    Edit : btw i played around with a seismic slam build for a little while. It's good to keep huge groups of monsters at a distance. Was not killing things fast enugh for my taste, but surely worked.
  • #19
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from Enty

    See my point here isn't to be full Def, It's not to be the most efficient, it's meant to open opportunities for build diversity. Cm wiz might be the "most Efficient" but I know as a wizard with some good gear

    I'm not saying I can throw any build together and make it useful but I'm saying there are other builds that could work if you had more time to kill a monster, or a way to stay away from the damage. This opens those up because as of right now, you need one of these awesome builds and some pretty awesome gear to be able to survive the later difficulties and complete them.

    Some people like CM and Archon wiz, or a Hota/Rend barb but that's not me. As a Barb I want to dish out decent damage don't really care if its about 50k-100k buffed I'd be fine, as long as I can stand there and be like "Hah your puny attacks do not harm me!".


    I keep bringing up CM cause to me it is the best crowd control / tank build I have seen in ANY build for any class so far in Diablo3. But if that is not your main ( or only ) goal, then I understand that you want to keep looking. What I realy like about the CM is that you can 100% crowd control, you can freeze them buggers in place till they are dead. The other players in your group can walk around with 1 HP and the weirdest builds they want, frozen monsters still can not harm them.



    What I miss a little bit are clear goals with your build.

    So what I see as goals so far are :

    - high survivability
    - crowd control
    - keeping monsters busy so that others can kill them
    - still doing decent damage. ( what decent means still has to be defined more precisely, and is mostly depending on your budget anyway... )



    I can kinda see a barb stacking survivability stats, running around with taunt and ground stomp and bash ( stun ) and seismic slam ( Stun ) and ancient spear to pull enemies away from group members. But only kinda.

    Something like this : http://eu.battle.net...edgk!ebV!acaaYc ?

    Edit : btw i played around with a seismic slam build for a little while. It's good to keep huge groups of monsters at a distance. Was not killing things fast enugh for my taste, but surely worked.



    YEah Basically We're just here to provide the class that's supposed to tank a good uniform build to tank by. This in no way is meant to be the definitive tank but using this build will surely get you tank status and enable your glasscannons to be even more glasscannon. I mean is a Wiz really supposed to be right up in the enemies face? No they're meant to be far back absolutely decimating the enemy, some people like that some people like being up close and personal, but sometimes it really isn't an option. I keep bringing up CM/Archon wiz because I'm familiar with the builds and know that they are the most popular wizard builds and are almost necessary to be in MP10...


    So goals:
    High Survivability
    Taunter
    Good DPS ~50-~100k depending on budget


    And the build is looking good so far this is currently mine http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bhkgYi!WdY!aYaYZb
    and here is my barb as of this writing http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Enty-1971/hero/2854887 I haven't configured my pasives correctly yet but this works for now.

    I'm sure your stunlock build would be phenomenal at keeping monsters away and actively engaged with you. See this is why I started this thread to promote some thought and build diversity. There are probably tons of defensive builds you can make that would be effective. This thread is here to just talk about different ways to effectively be a tank. This opens up tons of possibilities for otherclasses as i'm sure CM wiz do as well but now the tank class is tanking and the glasscannon class is being a glasscannon!
    Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!


  • #20
    Quote from Enty

    I mean is a Wiz really supposed to be right up in the enemies face?

    but now the tank class is tanking and the glasscannon class is being a glasscannon!


    I dont realy care too much about what classes are supposed to do ^^ If anything, it makes for more build diversity when wizards can be up close or ranged, just like a ranged barb is also possible with weapon throw and ancient spear :D

    Btw I would suggest looking for another -lvl requirement weapon :) -9 instead of -15 allready makes a hell of a lot of a price difference. You will probably find some steal that lifts you close to 10k dps :D
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