Skorn vs Duel Wield

  • #21
    I truly believe that skorn works perfectly for those who want it to work perfectly. All of you who talks bad about skorn hota, by some how plays DW.. that's funny imo.

    Youtube won't let me upload a vid. longer than 15min, so will be delayed some..
  • #22

    a nice vid showing skorn build:
  • #23
    i like skorn better and have survived longer than DW barbs in MP8+, especially in ubers. almost all the time im the last guy standing. i think using skorn is more challenging. looking at most of the DW barbs i see, they only have 35k life or so and low armor (6k-7k). my barb has 76k life and 10.3k armor (without enchantress). my damage is 161.4k dps using battle rage and not WOTB. resists are 980 to 1200, 42.5% crit chance, 427% crit damage, 51% life bonus, and only 3.00% life steal. my crits are between 500k and 700k consistent. Today i added more strength, attack speed, and vita. im now at 3025 strength, 1538 vita, 181.2k dps, 10.1k armor, 81.7k life, same resists, damage reduced from elites 7%. skorn is more fun and hits harder. i use cleave (broad sweep), rend (blood lust), ignore pain (ignorance is bliss), war cry (impunity), battle rage (marauders rage), furious charge (merciless assault). passives are ruthless, nerves of steel, and weapon master.
  • #24
    Quote from crazyhulk

    i like skorn better and have survived longer than DW barbs in MP8+, especially in ubers. almost all the time im the last guy standing. i think using skorn is more challenging. looking at most of the DW barbs i see, they only have 35k life or so and low armor (6k-7k). my barb has 76k life and 10.3k armor (without enchantress). my damage is 161.4k dps using battle rage and not WOTB. resists are 980 to 1200, 42.5% crit chance, 427% crit damage, and only 3.00% life steal. my crits are between 500k and 700k consistent.


    u could easily go down to 50k-60k hp 8k armor, and then get higher crit 50+ and a bit higher lifesteal :) but overall i like the idea too
  • #25
    Quote from Svennyy

    a nice vid showing skorn build:


    This is my video, so I wanted to chime in here a bit. As I think the video shows, farming with a skorn can be very effective, but the standard WW is not really optimal for it.

    Beyond that, the downside to Skorn is just the lower fury generation from the slower attack speed. If your character sheet lists a higher DPS with the skorn than with DW, you WILL do more DPS with the skorn than with DW IF you can maintain your fury. I have a pair of 1 handers but since buying a lifesteal skorn I only use them on the ZK/siegebreaker fight where maintaining fury is difficult. For key farming and for any of the other ubers I just use by Skorn with the standard WW spec, because its more damage and I don't have any trouble keeping fury up in the other two fights.

    Anybody saying that you do more dps with DW and a lower character sheet damage because of the faster attack speed are wrong. The only difference is fury generation, which is much slower with the 2hander. If you don't believe me, check the "true DPS" calculator here http://www.d3rawr.com/d with both item sets. It's explained here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6864416737?page=1 and its a formula that account for the tick speed of the sprint tornadoes and whirlwind.

    Also, "bmiha" posting above who said he guarantees he does more damage with his DW setup: You're using a 1200 DPS 1hander. If you're going to compare that you a skorn, you need to compare it to one of relative value, i.e. 1500dps+. Also, I do MP10 ubers and I don't die, because I have 8.4% Lifesteal without having to use bloodthirst.
  • #26
    i am considering replacing nerves of steel for bloodthirst. also, i am working on higher crit chance.
  • #27

    Idk why it says "Film" in the start of the clip. this was rendered with Movie Maker, and speeded 1.5x times normal speed.
  • #28
    I dropped a fairly decent Skorn about 2 months ago. I was a big DW proponent so it took me a while to switch over. The extra DPS finally sucked me in however.

    I found that I really needed to re-gear and re-skill my Monk to tailor her to the weapon. The loss of Spirit generation was a huge problem at first but now I am farming at experience/hour rates that are much higher than ever before.

    One thing that has not been mentioned is that many offensive skills are keyed to weapon damage. A well rolled Skorn will absolutely improve damage output from these skills vs dual wield. For example, my seven sided strike routinely lands single critical hits over 1.3 million dmg and always pours 6 million total damage into the boss I am fighting.
  • #29
    Thanks OP for bringing up this topic into discussion because I'm also having trouble deciding which route I should be taking.

    Personally, I think a players decision on whether they should use a skorn or be dual wielding depends on many things. Such as their gear, their build and what their intentions are, that is if they want to farm for xp and items or keys. I will use my barb as an example of what a person that wants to maximize both loot opportunity and xp gain would look like.

    Edit: I can't post URL's yet but if you search Zeto#1125 on the diablo site then you could find me.

    At the moment, I farm MP2 because as I've said, I want to both gain a good amount of xp in a short amount of time and get a better chance at good loot (hence why I don't do MP1 instead). Now, as to the reason why I choose to farm MP2 as oppose to MP3 or higher, with my current gear and build, I can basically oneshot white mobs with WW in MP2 thus allowing me to continue on the move. For my playstyle, a person who likes to be constantly on the move, I don't like having to backtrack just to kill a mob with a low hp bar. Which, is something I find myself having to do in MP3 since the mobs have more hp and I can't oneshot them like in MP2. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but if a mob doesn't die you get neither xp or loot.

    Now back onto the topic of whether you should be using a skorn or be dual wielding. I agree that dual wielding may be the way to go. While with my gear and build I've completely eliminated the idea of "being fury-starved", I think the majority of players will have that problem of not having enough fury because a skorn is so slow. And from that slowness, several other problems may arise, such as losing survivability because LoH or LS isn't as effective. Sure for my intentions this isn't a huge problem because MP2 is fairly easy, but if I were to farm say MP5, I'd get put in my place fairly quickly.

    So ultimately, I think that if say you had 500m (just to throw a number out there) to spend on weapons, buying two good weapons for dual wielding is the better option than buying one good LS skorn, since you can stay alive better, have a better fury gen and keep WoTB up.
  • #30
    Can't acqually post videos ( new user )

    just search on youtube "Diablo 3 maglio degli antichi" to see some Skorn action at MP10

    The difference betweeen Skorn and DW is how do you use it:

    DW --> Fast hitting based on attack speed / sprint tornados
    Skorn --> DOTS ( rend / earthquake ), istant attacks with cooldowns (revenge, overpower) that uses raw weapon damage.
  • #31
    I have been running with a Skorn to try it out lately (as per profile), and it does do a shit ton of damage, but if you have decent LoH and dual sockets, DW is a better option. (even more so if you have CC or other nice effects on both weapons)

    If going for max damage, DW would be the way to go. (my Skysplitter/Blade of Warlord combo does slightly less "paper" DPS, but faaaaaaar more damage in actual play)

    I do wish the Grandfather had a better range of stats available though, because that shit is sexy as hell.
  • #32
    In terms of xp /hour. Dual wielding is far superior to a skorn. Max performance is done on mp1-3 depending on gear. And at those mp levels its imposible for you to maintain 100% uptime on wotb with a two hander. Which hurt your xp gain per hour alot.

    And before you say it. No running mp5 or 6 cannot reach the ammounts of xp, you get doing on low mp dual wield.
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  • #33
    It might not be as fast as a WW barb but imo its ALOT more fun.

    I rolled WW very early and played it for over 100hours /played. And it got booring very quickly.

    Now im rolling a Skorn on my barb with 130k dps. Playing with a CMwiz I really just slaugther elite packs with my 1mill Smash critts without WotB.

    And yeah, Im running with Insanity just because I really dont like ToC. Super boring rune that just doesnt give the power I want. Sure, it might give perma CC immunity and more movespeed. But I really dont give a shit about movespeed. I just wanna critt high and absolutely explode on the elite packs when I see them.

    My CMwiz jumps in with freeze on 3 elites and I come after with insanity and pretty much 3-4 shot them with 2.2-2.5mil smash critts on mp5-6.

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Xblaze-2136/hero/9814660
    Nothing great, but Im not playing that much and I really havent had any luck with loot.. like 4-5 legendaries with 400hours played.
  • #34
    Choose what feels better!!! - there are 3 exclamation marks here because it's that important.

    2x 1h and 2h feel very differently, and at the end of the day you're playing a game and what you shuld maximise is the fun you get out of it. So go with what feels right (sidenote - this goes for builds also).

    Personally I swap between Skorn and 2x 1h builds to keep things interesting and I never play WW, or "Fart-barb" as I call it, because I detest it.
  • #35
    Quote from Huminator

    In terms of xp /hour. Dual wielding is far superior to a skorn. Max performance is done on mp1-3 depending on gear. And at those mp levels its imposible for you to maintain 100% uptime on wotb with a two hander. Which hurt your xp gain per hour alot.

    And before you say it. No running mp5 or 6 cannot reach the ammounts of xp, you get doing on low mp dual wield.


    You are actually wrong.
    Best exp/h is mp0 with 2h. Passive fury generation from set and passive, not using wotb, not wasting time on keeping it up (no bash, no primary skill). Insta killing elitepacks with leap/overpower combo. This can give you about 100m/h of exp with proper stats.
  • #36
    I was refering to the ww barb using a skorn.
    Quote from aerialus

    Quote from Huminator

    In terms of xp /hour. Dual wielding is far superior to a skorn. Max performance is done on mp1-3 depending on gear. And at those mp levels its imposible for you to maintain 100% uptime on wotb with a two hander. Which hurt your xp gain per hour alot.

    And before you say it. No running mp5 or 6 cannot reach the ammounts of xp, you get doing on low mp dual wield.


    You are actually wrong.
    Best exp/h is mp0 with 2h. Passive fury generation from set and passive, not using wotb, not wasting time on keeping it up (no bash, no primary skill). Insta killing elitepacks with leap/overpower combo. This can give you about 100m/h of exp with proper stats.


    I was refering to the ww barb using a skorn.
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  • #37
    Quote from aerialus

    Quote from Huminator

    In terms of xp /hour. Dual wielding is far superior to a skorn. Max performance is done on mp1-3 depending on gear. And at those mp levels its imposible for you to maintain 100% uptime on wotb with a two hander. Which hurt your xp gain per hour alot.

    And before you say it. No running mp5 or 6 cannot reach the ammounts of xp, you get doing on low mp dual wield.


    You are actually wrong.
    Best exp/h is mp0 with 2h. Passive fury generation from set and passive, not using wotb, not wasting time on keeping it up (no bash, no primary skill). Insta killing elitepacks with leap/overpower combo. This can give you about 100m/h of exp with proper stats.



    DW is cheaper and has more dps since WW spec scales so well with haste, the constant +50% movementspeed from sprint make WW DW spec alot more effective than any Skorn spec.
  • #38
    It really isn't that simple.
    Dual wield is better for high mp, ubers ect. But it isn't efficient by definition.
    You can't run mp0 with high end dual wield barb because you lose berserker easily, stuff dies too quickly. If you increase mp to prevent that, you can't kill elites fast enough, and that ruins your efficiency.
    There is balance between keeping enough fury for permanent sprint, and being able to insta kill elitepacks at the same time. Dual wield barb has trouble with this, and this happens to be most efficient way of farming. No mp bonuses can match sheer numbers of speedrunning mp0, and that is not just exp, but often drops as well.
  • #39
    I've to agree with aerialus, it's no question about dual wield or twohand, it's regulary a matter of dps if you can keep up WotB. The lower yor dps the easier it gets to keep it running, so either you ignore the benefits of WotB or you stick to higher monsterpower levels (sadly netting less xp/items overall).

    Quote from crazyhulk

    i like skorn better and have survived longer than DW barbs in MP8+, especially in ubers. almost all the time im the last guy standing. i think using skorn is more challenging. looking at most of the DW barbs i see, they only have 35k life or so and low armor (6k-7k). my barb has 76k life and 10.3k armor (without enchantress). my damage is 161.4k dps using battle rage and not WOTB. resists are 980 to 1200, 42.5% crit chance, 427% crit damage, and only 3.00% life steal. my crits are between 500k and 700k consistent.

    If you'd change your Skorn for two level one swords your defensive stats won't change at all, that's why you're that strong. I can't see how this is an argument for onehander or twohander but for looking more into defense ;)
  • #40
    Quote from Domeotaku

    Quote from aerialus

    Quote from Huminator

    In terms of xp /hour. Dual wielding is far superior to a skorn. Max performance is done on mp1-3 depending on gear. And at those mp levels its imposible for you to maintain 100% uptime on wotb with a two hander. Which hurt your xp gain per hour alot.

    And before you say it. No running mp5 or 6 cannot reach the ammounts of xp, you get doing on low mp dual wield.


    You are actually wrong.
    Best exp/h is mp0 with 2h. Passive fury generation from set and passive, not using wotb, not wasting time on keeping it up (no bash, no primary skill). Insta killing elitepacks with leap/overpower combo. This can give you about 100m/h of exp with proper stats.



    DW is cheaper and has more dps since WW spec scales so well with haste, the constant +50% movementspeed from sprint make WW DW spec alot more effective than any Skorn spec.


    Not true. MP0 with skorn and just "Best exp/h is mp0 with 2h. Passive fury generation from set and passive, not using wotb, not wasting time on keeping it up (no bash, no primary skill). Insta killing elitepacks with leap/overpower combo. This can give you about 100m/h of exp with proper stats." is faster than any ww build xp per hour wise.
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    Flipping/Sniping: 6577€
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