Offhand dilemma - WW barbarian

  • #1
    So I'm playing this ww barbarian... with a kinda balanced stuff I guess. I'm farming MP3 ( pretty efficiently except I'd probably switch between "bash -onslaught" to "frenzy-mania" for goblins, fallen shaman and goat occultists)

    In an attempt to increase my dps I went from this dagger

    913 dps
    9% attack speed
    890 LOH
    3% lifestealing

    To this mace

    822dps
    118strength
    11 attack speed
    852 LOH
    socket ( 80% crit damage emerald)

    I went from 71k to 80k buffed dps in the process

    But in action ...I don't know, it feels different but I can't decide if it's really more powerfull.

    ( I should point out that I have no lifestealing item on my barb and rely on bloodthirst.)

    Question is : wich one should I choose?
  • #2
    Well you have a slower attack speed but you're hitting harder.

    DPS on offhand matters for your whirlwinds only, not tornados. I whirlwinding a lot more since patch so I went with a 865 dps offhand to keep my dps up.

    If you're keeping your health up and not dying, then the lifesteal doesn't really matter.

    The 80% crit dam really matters on your total crit percentage really. If you have 10% crit, then 80% crit damage really won't help you much.
  • #3
    Check out this calc: http://www.d3rawr.com/d

    You can import your character from the website, then put in stats for each weapon and then look at tDPS in the bottom-right of the screen, which is for WW damage / healing.
    ...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
  • #4
    mace no doubt about it. even if it was just tornadoes it would still be better (as long as the life steal isn't a must)
  • #5
    Okay! thank you all for helping me decide. You've been a great help. And thanks for the calculator! I'll continue with the mace ( and maybe improve my AS a bit to make the most of it. )
  • #6
    The mace is a bit better damage but somewhat less healing. You're not seeing a huge difference because you just lost somewhere around 12% of your tornado DPS by going from 1.5 to 1.2, then gained back about 17% from the extra str and critical damage.

    You would be best off by just getting a dagger with no DPS, but life steal, LOH, and as much strength and critical damage as your budget allows. DPS is a very expensive stat compared to its usefulness for a sprint barb's offhand weapon (while on the main hand it is actually a cheap stat compared to its usefulness for the same reasons).
  • #7
    I have done the exact same just going from a 1.5 dagger to 1.4 sword and i can feel the difference. The runs was way more smooth with the dagger and the lifeleech/fury regen was more steady.

    I've also made a post about my experience here

    http://www.diablofan...-the-way-to-go/
  • #8
    Quote from GalZohar

    The mace is a bit better damage but somewhat less healing. You're not seeing a huge difference because you just lost somewhere around 12% of your tornado DPS by going from 1.5 to 1.2, then gained back about 17% from the extra str and critical damage.

    You would be best off by just getting a dagger with no DPS, but life steal, LOH, and as much strength and critical damage as your budget allows. DPS is a very expensive stat compared to its usefulness for a sprint barb's offhand weapon (while on the main hand it is actually a cheap stat compared to its usefulness for the same reasons).


    Well this is rather confusing...

    I've found a few daggers like you describe, low dps weapon with sockets, high loh and strg. I tried to sell them on the ah at very low prices; but no one ever bought them so I figured it wasn't that interesting. I never bothered to try it myself.

    I'll see if I still have one of those stashed somewhere and try.

    I guess dps display is misleading then... good to know...

    Thanks for sharing you experience Berdelsan
  • #12
    Quote from Slayardarklaws

    I've found a few daggers like you describe, low dps weapon with sockets, high loh and strg. I tried to sell them on the ah at very low prices; but no one ever bought them so I figured it wasn't that interesting.


    That just shows you how many more stats you can have on your offhand if you are actually paying a reasonable amount and are giving up the DPS. Just loh socket str is pretty weak. You can get one with loh socket str crit dmg or replace one of those stats with life steal for a price in the 1mil area or even a lot less now in 1.0.5. If you pay more you can maybe even get everything on it or just much more of each stat. Those stats cost a lot less and help you a lot more than some more DPS on your offhand, as they help sprint damage too, not just 1/2 of the whirlwind damage (and whirlwind itself is ~1/4 of your damage, so DPS on offhand only affects something like 1/8 of your damage).
  • #13
    People want OH weapons with higher dps so that their dps on character screen is higher
  • #14
    Quote from eterniity2k

    People want OH weapons with higher dps so that their dps on character screen is higher


    true, but now off hand dps matters aswell because we use whirlwind a lot more, therefore off hand is no longer just a stat stick so if you have the budget for it you buy off hand with good stats and with high dps
  • #15
    Quote from Gnarf

    true, but now off hand dps matters aswell because we use whirlwind a lot more, therefore off hand is no longer just a stat stick so if you have the budget for it you buy off hand with good stats and with high dps


    Having hardly enough fury even for sprint means you use whirlwind less, not more.

    Besides, the math that says whirlwind is only a small % of your total damage was taking into account 4.5 tornadoes hitting at the same time as a channeled whirlwind, as in using whirlwind 100% of the time you are next to monsters. Since in 1.0.5 you can't do any better than that, whirlwind's damage is still small.

    Off hands are still a stat stick, and the only situation in which you should think otherwise is if you can already afford an offhand with such amazing stats that getting some more DPS on it is the only next viable step in terms of upgrading you total killing speed.
  • #16
    Quote from GalZohar

    Quote from Gnarf

    true, but now off hand dps matters aswell because we use whirlwind a lot more, therefore off hand is no longer just a stat stick so if you have the budget for it you buy off hand with good stats and with high dps


    Having hardly enough fury even for sprint means you use whirlwind less, not more.


    only if you have bad gear, if you have high crit you can easily spam it, even on single target
  • #17
    Quote from Gnarf

    only if you have bad gear, if you have high crit you can easily spam it, even on single target


    1. Wrong. Even bad gear should have about as much critical chance as a top geared barb. If you want to play sprint/whirlwind, that is. For no more than 10k a piece you should still have above 50% crit chance.

    2. Even if you assume whirlwind and sprint 100% of the time, whirlwind is still quite weak, so increasing how much you whirlwind doesn't really matter.

    3. In 1.0.4 I was already whirlwinding nearly 100% of the time (when I'm actually in melee range of monsters), so much more uptime is basically not even possible, because you can't go much higher than "almost 100% of the time".
  • #18
    thanks for the link to the webpage, helped me also :D
  • #19
    I would recommend dropping dw to a skorn. Now IAS is create and making slow 2h an option for ww barb. Like Lacuni, Str Inna temperance and mempo are cheap, and that 3 items give you 25% ias. Then there are ammy, rings and glove. if you are ring, you can get the witching hour too.
  • #20
    IAS makes 2h "viable" just like it makes dw "uber", so even if you have all that IAs you are still better off dual wielding.
  • #21
    ^^ what galzohar said, The only time i use a 2h ww build is for farming mp1. I can litterly ww and kill 90% of mobs in 1 pass without tornados even kicking in, also i use leap+charge which speed up killing stuff in 1 shot too :P
  • #22
    Quote from GalZohar

    IAS makes 2h "viable" just like it makes dw "uber", so even if you have all that IAs you are still better off dual wielding.


    This.
  • #23
    I was also playing with WW build with skorn.. but when i tried dual weild the difference was amazing. Its just so much better. I wouldnt recommend to go with 2hander. I use a sword as off hand weapon and echoing fury as main hand. Works just great!

    And i do disagree that WW damage is small. I have tried to play with a low dps off hand with good stats but i really can feel the difference when whirlwinding.. also if i want to use bash its so annoying that the other weapon is hardly making any damage. Ofc if you dont have much gold its better to go with a lower dps off hand with good stats than a high dps weapon with crappy stats.

    Here's my baba: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Babu-2612/hero/1374437
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