WW - Fast Offhand still the way to go?

  • #1
    Hi guys

    I was under the impression that fast offhand with good stats without much dps consideration was the way to go but now i start seeing more and more barbs with slower offhands (often mighty weapon).

    Can anyone shed some light on this because its contradicting everything i thought i knew :/

    I do pretty ok with my toon but like everyone else i am also seeking improvement.

    Heres mine:
    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Berdel-2358/hero/19867306
  • #2
    I don't really think it matters what kind of offhand you use. Since most of the damage comes from tornados it acts like a stat stick.
    I'm using a mighty weapon in my offhand since it has nice stats and i found it myself.

    The reason why people where using low dps fast offhands was because they used to be alot cheaper (just speculating here). But it didn't took long until people learned this and started to up the prices (200 dps dagger with 100 CD, socket and 3% LL goes for 30 millions).
  • #3
    Yes, the speed of the off hand matters but if you should choose between a mace (1.2 speed) and a sword (1.4 speed) and the difference of the price between both weapons is too huge, donĀ“t doubt about it and choose the mace, with the difference you can buy a good ring for example and get a more real improvement.

  • #4
    pre 1.05, fast offhand was huge. I remember going from 2 1.2 maces to a 1.3 axe main hand and 1.5 dagger offhand and zerk/fury management was 10x easier. Day and night.

    In the patch, however, blizard specifically noted that attackspeed has less of an effect on ww, tornado coeficient was reduced by more than 2, and also the cost of ww has been reduced from 16->10.

    What does this all mean?
    attackspeed used to have a huge effect on the rate which ww would expend fury. This was GOOD because if you are at full fury, zerker does not gain back seconds. So, if you expend fury fast, you are able to gain fury jsut as fast, makign it easier to permazerk.

    In terms of tornados:
    tornados damage is based off of main hand but the attackspeed is based off of whichever weapon happens to be active at the time of casting so, their is a chance to get the massive damage of ur 1.2 main ahnd mace but have it ticking at the rate of ur 1.5 off hand dagger allowing for a huge dps boost. Not only that, but the faster your tornados tick, the faster u gain back fury/loh helping keep zerker up as long as you have fury to gain and also keeping you alive

    ww cost from 16-10:
    not only does ias affect the cost of ww less, but ww was also reduced in cost. It is now impossible with 1.3 mh and 1.5 offhand with some minor attackspeed boost to keep zerker up solely with ww. IT DOES NOT EXPEND FAST ENOUGH (25 fury/second). As such, the only viable fury dumps are battle rage spam and sprint run liek the wind spam. Spam these 2 skills seems to be the best way to dumb ur fury for zerk to stay up.

    Moral of the story:
    faster weapons, and fast offhand, is still superior, and will be until blizzard completely redesign tornados/ww. I myself have a 950dps 1.3 wep and a 500dps dagger (with 94% crit damage/3%lifesteal/socket) for only 13mill from 2 months ago. If you can get a dagger offhand, do it. If you cant, just wait it out. http://us.battle.net...14/hero/6471308

    a friend of mine has actually gone crazy with attackspeed, and has about +40% attackspeed with a 1.3 mian hand and 1.5 offhand, and still says its not like it used to be pre patch.


    blizzard should have increased br-into the fray fury to 20, kept ww mechanics the same, and then dropped the coeficient of tornados to .08 like they did.
    I agree ww barbs were and still are OP but it was a huge and necissary nerf. They said they were throwing us a bone with the ww 16->10 cost change, but it was only raping us even harder, and inducing the onset of carpal tunnel/arthrisis. THATS NOT FUN, thats tedious work i have to do. The reason for these changes was that barbs healed to fast from loh.... not the fact that they had perma zerk.... so why make perma zerk a pain in the ass while still making it very possible to do? /rant sry. :)
  • #5
    or just get like 9% asi on offhand. Changes might weapon with 1.3 to 1.42, and you can get a higher dps weapon. I don't think the 0.08% makes that mutch difference in 1.0.5
  • #6
    You can calculate the extra damage you would get from the extra speed, look at the price difference, and tell for yourself. But since most people have no clue how stuff work and a dagger and mace with the same stats drop just as often, a dagger tends to be more cost effective. This of course doesn't mean you should ignore good deals on maces or other weapons. You just need to do the math and see if you are getting a good return for your money. Just to give you an idea, at least for some gear levels, a difference in 0.1 offhand speed (or main hand speed, but in reverse) can be comparable to 50~100 strength.
  • #7
    Thanks for the replys

    After your feedback i went to the auction house and bought myself a new offhand which was slightly slower but had more damage

    I did some testing with 2 different offhands and here is what i experienced


    First setup:

    Dagger: https://www.dropbox....reenShot846.jpg

    DPS: https://www.dropbox....reenShot847.jpg

    This offhand i have been using for a while and i feel pretty comfortable with it. The fury management is great and i can manage to keep up wrath of the beserker for longer periods between mob groups.


    Second setup:

    Sword: https://www.dropbox....reenShot845.jpg

    DPS: https://www.dropbox....reenShot848.jpg

    By equipping this weapon my DPS went up alot on the char sheet but i started to struggle more to keep my fury up when killing smaller packs and found myself bashing fury back up much more frequently then with my previous offhand. The damage did "feel" better and it felt like i was able to leech more life back when WW'ing through packs.

    Conclusion

    I am still a bit confused on where to go now. I would like to keep the 20k dps boost (perhaps a bit less because the sword has 100% CHD and dagger 90% CHD) i get from the sword but on the other hand it is less enjoyable to play with it because of the struggle to maintain high fury and WOTB

    Do you guys have more advice to share on this topic?
  • #8
    I went with a mace on my main hand and mighty weapon for offhand. Offhand DPS matters now since whirlwind dps is based off both weapons. I whirlwind a hell of a lot more than I did before patch. Mainly because it's easier to kill things and my fury doesn't drop to the floor when I do.

    For passives, I went the obvious two: Ruthless and Weapons Master. But for my third I went with Unforgiving. Let me tell you it helps out with fury problems for when I need it. Yes sometimes I still run out of fury even with 51.5% crit. Especially when I'm trying to kill the last mob in a champ pack. Unforgiving helps keep the fury up. No fury means I die. Also it helps when you are clearing and you run into a dead end with all those twists and turns and you have to run back. I can get double the amount of sprints in before my fury goes down to zero. Makes clearing so much faster.
  • #9
    Raw DPS on the offhand does not help sprint at all, only whirlwind, so keep that in mind. Your character sheet DPS is a pretty meaningless number.

    As for fury generation, the difference between different offhand speeds is there, but it shouldn't be so big that you would "feel like you're bashing for fury way more often". Even going from 1.5 offhand to 1.2 (assuming main hand is 1.2 always), your average attack speed goes from 1.35 to 1.2, meaning you had 12.5% more fury generation, which is nice to have but not all that much that would make a world of a difference or anything.
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