Currently using bloodthirst in my build, but I'm doubting it's value now compared to some other passives. Just wondering if it is generally considered a viable option beyond inferno act 1.
Also using inspiring presence as well, because having to refresh battle rage every 30 seconds makes me want to stab baby elephants. But I suppose I'd be willing to put elephants on the endangered species list in favor of something like ruthless or weapon mastery.
Speaking of ruthless, I hear its a phenomenal passive. But if I don't go full throttle investing in crit, is it still worth it? I currently only have one piece of crit gear (3.5% chance on amulet) and wonder if, at least for now, bypassing ruthless in favor of something else might make more sense.
Lastly, WotB vs Earthquake. Right now furious charge is my only aoe, so earthquake is an attractive option. I also like the fact I can put it down against frozen/knockback/nightmarish mobs and its dmg continues ticking while I'm unable to fight, not to mention it can be used to good effect in single target encounters as well. On the other hand WotB is a wicked single target increase and also synergizes well with revenge and furious charge.
Anyhow, I'm farming act 1 (have only just begun act 2, but gear is still a little too low to expect much progress). Here's my current build:
I'm assuming you're doing 1h+shield. As others have said, bloodthirst scale terribly at low dps (you get 80% penalty for lifesteal in inferno). It can become more attractive later on once your dps is over 60k or so, but not as 1h+shield spec.
Don't use inspiring presence just to make battle rage lasts longer. If you're having trouble keeping battle rage up, try spamming it with warcry (btw, you NEED warcry:impunity if you want to continue later acts. No wonder you can't continue act2). Warcry has 30 seconds cd, generate 30 rage. Battle Fury costs 20 rage, lasts 30 seconds. If you have both then you can always press them together as if they were one button and you'll always be buffed.
Ruthless will ALWAYS give you a great dps boost, regardless of your current crit %. Ruthless will almost always give more dps boost compare to weapon master in all cases. If you really want to maximize dps, go for ruthless+weapon master+berserker rage (if you're not spending fury).
Furious charge is NOT your only aoe. Revenge does a lot of damage and as tank barb a huge chunk of your damage will be coming from revenge. Between EQ and wotb I'd choose wotb if you're using 1h since EQ scales horribly with fast 1 hand.
I'm seeing a lot of dps boost skills. Now since you didn't include any gear I'm going to assume that your dps might not be that great. If you're having trouble dying (seeing you try to have bloodthirst), then you basically have 2 option: You can either try to kill enemies as soon as you can, or you can pump out defense and try to outlast them.
If you're not very geared and going 1h+shield then first option is not going to be possible, so outlasting them might be a better idea. You NEED warcry as barb in inferno, period. Try swapping in some more defensive passive and see if you survive better. It does not matter if you kill them a bit slower if that means u can tank them forever.
What weapon setup are you using? I find Earthquake lackluster with anything but a good 2H weapon.
Definitely pick up War Cry: Impunity. It is absolutely the best buff you can give yourself. You said your gear was lacking for Act II? War Cry. There's your gear.
Again, would really like to know your weapon setup. It matters a lot.
I am indeed using 1H+shield setup. My dps is about 13k unbuffed, just under 20k with BR up and full fury. Got roughly 180 all resist but have a couple (physical, arcane) near 300. 54% reduction from armor (can't recall the actual rating value). Don't remember specifics on much of my gear but I do know my weapon is 670-ish axe.
I say my gear isn't so great because I've never bought a single piece of gear for my barb. My main toon is a wizard and all my funds have gone to upgrading him, so the barb basically gets the hand-me-downs I've found along the way. This will likely be changing though, as I'm finding myself enjoying the barb much more than my wizard.
I know some folks swear by leap, and I agree it is really useful, but between that and FC I've just enjoyed so much more utility with FC. Not to take anything away from leap, it has certain advantages too, but I personally find them to be on roughly equal ground, making it a personal preference thing and FC gets my preference.
You guys were quick to agree I need war cry: impunity in my build, which is fine, now just need to decide what to drop in favor of it. I could drop EQ/WotB, but I would certainly miss having a powerful offensive cooldown for burning elites. Hmmmm.
And just FYI, with my current setup I'm really not having much trouble in terms of dying or outlasting mobs or whatnot. I've lvled 3 toons into inferno now and the barb is so far the easiest/most powerful of the bunch on an Act 1 inferno difficulty scale. I skipped many more elite packs on my wizard and WD than I am with my barb. For what its worth.
I can see why you're having trouble in Act II. You absolutely need more Resists. No question about it. It's necessary.
As far as what to drop for War Cry: do you really notice a lot of damage from Earthquake? I just can't see it being all that great with a 1H weapon. I'd definitely keep WotB. It has great uses. I'd even drop Battle Rage if you're reluctant to get rid of Earthquake. It's hardly necessary in a defensive build.
To be fair, I likely would suffer the gear check in act 2 if I was trying to progress, but the truth is I just haven't bothered because I've taken a couple characters through that act and know that my barb needs some better gear/stats. So its not like I'm flinging myself against a brick wall and languishing over it, I'm just patiently farming act 1 knowing full well act 2 would probably be a problem.
My build was always intended from the beginning to be an offensive build that manages to survive somehow, rather than a tanky build that can occasionally kill things. I played a tank in WoW, been there done that, I want firepower, which is mostly why I've eschewed War Cry to this point.
EQ has certainly been helpful, its hard not to notice 2000% dmg ticking away, but not so much so that I wouldn't consider dropping it. It has its limitations too, such as teleporting mobs or mobs that naturally want to flee.
After all the valuable feedback in this thread so far, I'm now aiming to give this build a try tonight:
Dropped bloodthirst and inspiring presence in favor of nerves of steel and ruthless. Also traded EQ for WotB and dropped BR in favor of war cry. Couple dps tradeoffs (gain with WotB and ruthless, lose with WC) but overall should be a noticeable difference in survivability.
Alright well, last night I switched to the build I mentioned in my previous post above, and holy crap it made a much bigger difference than I was expecting. Small increase to dps and large increase to survivability. Picking up war cry and nerves of steel has put me up to just under 9k armor now, and all resists are just above 300 with arcane and physical being 370-ish. With WotB up I just face tanked every champ mob I came across. I thought I would really miss Battle Rage, but no not really, I was still doing more dps (thanks, ruthless!) even without it.
I'm kicking myself for not swapping out EQ in favor of WotB earlier. When I pop that at full fury I'm hitting 45k dps and just destroying act 1 champ mobs. Didn't try act 2 yet because it was basically just a test run last night and I didn't have much time to play, but I tore through act 1 inferno as if it were act 1 hell. In fact the only time I died at all was once when I got wall-trapped inside arcane + plague pool. All this without changing my gear at all. I feel pretty confident I can get through act 2, assuming perhaps one or two gear upgrades along the way (mainly for some additional AR, my armor, hp and dps seem fine).
Act I is pretty easy though. You will find that in Act II, you will probably need more defensive and have to drop even more offense. For example, you might have to get tough as nails and superstition, and you will have to work iron impact in probably at the cost of wotb.
You're still doing more dps than when you're dead.
Act I is pretty easy though. You will find that in Act II, you will probably need more defensive and have to drop even more offense. For example, you might have to get tough as nails and superstition, and you will have to work iron impact in probably at the cost of wotb.
You're still doing more dps than when you're dead.
This is pretty true. The basic cycle of Inferno is: Start Act I as tank, get better gear so you can go DPS, beat Act I, farm Act I with DPS gear if needed, start Act II as tank, get better gear so you can go DPS, etc.
The hardest part of this is in Act III, trying to transition from a tank build to a more damage-oriented build. You can manage just fine as a tank throughout Act III, but you kind of hit a ceiling as a damage build where you still have really awesome gear, but the damage you take is still very large. I'm thinking that only the very best gear will allow you to comfortably do Act III as a damage-oriented build.
Act I is pretty easy though. You will find that in Act II, you will probably need more defensive and have to drop even more offense. For example, you might have to get tough as nails and superstition, and you will have to work iron impact in probably at the cost of wotb.
You're still doing more dps than when you're dead.
This is pretty true. The basic cycle of Inferno is: Start Act I as tank, get better gear so you can go DPS, beat Act I, farm Act I with DPS gear if needed, start Act II as tank, get better gear so you can go DPS, etc.
This basically sums it up right there. I'd advise any new barbarian out there to start doing any new content with the most defensive build ever. Then once you can clear it with ease, you can start to swap out a few defensive stat for faster clear time. This is how the game is meant to be progressed.
Now I'm not even tanking act 2 anymore, I'm just using 2 hander to cleave through everything as fast as possible. On act 3, if I don't want to die, I still have to pick up my shield and go defensive in a party though, but I'm still gearing up my 2h for act3.
Act I is pretty easy though. You will find that in Act II, you will probably need more defensive and have to drop even more offense. For example, you might have to get tough as nails and superstition, and you will have to work iron impact in probably at the cost of wotb.
You're still doing more dps than when you're dead.
This is pretty true. The basic cycle of Inferno is: Start Act I as tank, get better gear so you can go DPS, beat Act I, farm Act I with DPS gear if needed, start Act II as tank, get better gear so you can go DPS, etc.
The hardest part of this is in Act III, trying to transition from a tank build to a more damage-oriented build. You can manage just fine as a tank throughout Act III, but you kind of hit a ceiling as a damage build where you still have really awesome gear, but the damage you take is still very large. I'm thinking that only the very best gear will allow you to comfortably do Act III as a damage-oriented build.
Ugh. I learned this the hard way. I tried hitting Act 3 a number of times in a zillion different specs and gear swaps all utilizing a 2H weapon. No matter what, I'd get crushed. I'm still in the act of collecting gear for a more tank oriented approach zooming around Act 1 with 200% MF with both WotB and Earthquake to mow champ packs down (usually only one of the CD's is needed per pack). I'm not going to bash my head against the wall trying to push through the acts undergeared, so I'm content for now.
I had no major issues in Act 2 (completed it all in ~10 deaths and half of those were on a single ridiculous pack**). My gear was worth around 1 million gold (I was following a 1 million gold challenge guide). I had around 1100 Vit, 1300 Str, ~650 resists (with impunity), 35% Crit, and 130% Crit Damage. I used this build: http://us.battle.net...RVkP!bUZ!aabccZ
However, I did play around with the passives a lot. Weapons Master, Berserker Rage, Tough as Nails, Superstition, and even Boon of Bul-Kathos (this actually was what I used for the last half of Act 2 successfully) are all extremely good.
** Turns out the whirling mobs have almost no unit collision while spinning, so fighting a Horde Desecrator Plagued Teleporter group of them is ridiculous because they can all stack up and hit you at the same time (and they will all body trap you in the Desecrate patches and Plague pools). It's one of those weird circumstances where those affixes wouldn't be very hard on any other mob type, but that combination of affixes with a mob that has almost no unit collision is strangely difficult.
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Also using inspiring presence as well, because having to refresh battle rage every 30 seconds makes me want to stab baby elephants. But I suppose I'd be willing to put elephants on the endangered species list in favor of something like ruthless or weapon mastery.
Speaking of ruthless, I hear its a phenomenal passive. But if I don't go full throttle investing in crit, is it still worth it? I currently only have one piece of crit gear (3.5% chance on amulet) and wonder if, at least for now, bypassing ruthless in favor of something else might make more sense.
Lastly, WotB vs Earthquake. Right now furious charge is my only aoe, so earthquake is an attractive option. I also like the fact I can put it down against frozen/knockback/nightmarish mobs and its dmg continues ticking while I'm unable to fight, not to mention it can be used to good effect in single target encounters as well. On the other hand WotB is a wicked single target increase and also synergizes well with revenge and furious charge.
Anyhow, I'm farming act 1 (have only just begun act 2, but gear is still a little too low to expect much progress). Here's my current build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WSRViT!dcX!cZbcab
And here is the one I'm considering switching to:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WSRViP!bcY!cZbcaZ
Don't use inspiring presence just to make battle rage lasts longer. If you're having trouble keeping battle rage up, try spamming it with warcry (btw, you NEED warcry:impunity if you want to continue later acts. No wonder you can't continue act2). Warcry has 30 seconds cd, generate 30 rage. Battle Fury costs 20 rage, lasts 30 seconds. If you have both then you can always press them together as if they were one button and you'll always be buffed.
Ruthless will ALWAYS give you a great dps boost, regardless of your current crit %. Ruthless will almost always give more dps boost compare to weapon master in all cases. If you really want to maximize dps, go for ruthless+weapon master+berserker rage (if you're not spending fury).
Furious charge is NOT your only aoe. Revenge does a lot of damage and as tank barb a huge chunk of your damage will be coming from revenge. Between EQ and wotb I'd choose wotb if you're using 1h since EQ scales horribly with fast 1 hand.
I'm seeing a lot of dps boost skills. Now since you didn't include any gear I'm going to assume that your dps might not be that great. If you're having trouble dying (seeing you try to have bloodthirst), then you basically have 2 option: You can either try to kill enemies as soon as you can, or you can pump out defense and try to outlast them.
If you're not very geared and going 1h+shield then first option is not going to be possible, so outlasting them might be a better idea. You NEED warcry as barb in inferno, period. Try swapping in some more defensive passive and see if you survive better. It does not matter if you kill them a bit slower if that means u can tank them forever.
Personally, I'd recommend every 1h+shield barb to start out with this spec: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WXRVSk!bVe!aaZccc
Then, once you're a bit more comfortable with staying alive you can try to swap out some defense for a bit more damage.
Definitely pick up War Cry: Impunity. It is absolutely the best buff you can give yourself. You said your gear was lacking for Act II? War Cry. There's your gear.
Again, would really like to know your weapon setup. It matters a lot.
I say my gear isn't so great because I've never bought a single piece of gear for my barb. My main toon is a wizard and all my funds have gone to upgrading him, so the barb basically gets the hand-me-downs I've found along the way. This will likely be changing though, as I'm finding myself enjoying the barb much more than my wizard.
I know some folks swear by leap, and I agree it is really useful, but between that and FC I've just enjoyed so much more utility with FC. Not to take anything away from leap, it has certain advantages too, but I personally find them to be on roughly equal ground, making it a personal preference thing and FC gets my preference.
You guys were quick to agree I need war cry: impunity in my build, which is fine, now just need to decide what to drop in favor of it. I could drop EQ/WotB, but I would certainly miss having a powerful offensive cooldown for burning elites. Hmmmm.
And just FYI, with my current setup I'm really not having much trouble in terms of dying or outlasting mobs or whatnot. I've lvled 3 toons into inferno now and the barb is so far the easiest/most powerful of the bunch on an Act 1 inferno difficulty scale. I skipped many more elite packs on my wizard and WD than I am with my barb. For what its worth.
As far as what to drop for War Cry: do you really notice a lot of damage from Earthquake? I just can't see it being all that great with a 1H weapon. I'd definitely keep WotB. It has great uses. I'd even drop Battle Rage if you're reluctant to get rid of Earthquake. It's hardly necessary in a defensive build.
My build was always intended from the beginning to be an offensive build that manages to survive somehow, rather than a tanky build that can occasionally kill things. I played a tank in WoW, been there done that, I want firepower, which is mostly why I've eschewed War Cry to this point.
EQ has certainly been helpful, its hard not to notice 2000% dmg ticking away, but not so much so that I wouldn't consider dropping it. It has its limitations too, such as teleporting mobs or mobs that naturally want to flee.
After all the valuable feedback in this thread so far, I'm now aiming to give this build a try tonight:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WSRVkP!bcZ!cZbccZ
Dropped bloodthirst and inspiring presence in favor of nerves of steel and ruthless. Also traded EQ for WotB and dropped BR in favor of war cry. Couple dps tradeoffs (gain with WotB and ruthless, lose with WC) but overall should be a noticeable difference in survivability.
I'm kicking myself for not swapping out EQ in favor of WotB earlier. When I pop that at full fury I'm hitting 45k dps and just destroying act 1 champ mobs. Didn't try act 2 yet because it was basically just a test run last night and I didn't have much time to play, but I tore through act 1 inferno as if it were act 1 hell. In fact the only time I died at all was once when I got wall-trapped inside arcane + plague pool. All this without changing my gear at all. I feel pretty confident I can get through act 2, assuming perhaps one or two gear upgrades along the way (mainly for some additional AR, my armor, hp and dps seem fine).
You're still doing more dps than when you're dead.
The hardest part of this is in Act III, trying to transition from a tank build to a more damage-oriented build. You can manage just fine as a tank throughout Act III, but you kind of hit a ceiling as a damage build where you still have really awesome gear, but the damage you take is still very large. I'm thinking that only the very best gear will allow you to comfortably do Act III as a damage-oriented build.
This basically sums it up right there. I'd advise any new barbarian out there to start doing any new content with the most defensive build ever. Then once you can clear it with ease, you can start to swap out a few defensive stat for faster clear time. This is how the game is meant to be progressed.
Now I'm not even tanking act 2 anymore, I'm just using 2 hander to cleave through everything as fast as possible. On act 3, if I don't want to die, I still have to pick up my shield and go defensive in a party though, but I'm still gearing up my 2h for act3.
Ugh. I learned this the hard way. I tried hitting Act 3 a number of times in a zillion different specs and gear swaps all utilizing a 2H weapon. No matter what, I'd get crushed. I'm still in the act of collecting gear for a more tank oriented approach zooming around Act 1 with 200% MF with both WotB and Earthquake to mow champ packs down (usually only one of the CD's is needed per pack). I'm not going to bash my head against the wall trying to push through the acts undergeared, so I'm content for now.
The five rules of playing a Drood?
Dodge, Dip, Dive, Duck and... Dodge
However, I did play around with the passives a lot. Weapons Master, Berserker Rage, Tough as Nails, Superstition, and even Boon of Bul-Kathos (this actually was what I used for the last half of Act 2 successfully) are all extremely good.
** Turns out the whirling mobs have almost no unit collision while spinning, so fighting a Horde Desecrator Plagued Teleporter group of them is ridiculous because they can all stack up and hit you at the same time (and they will all body trap you in the Desecrate patches and Plague pools). It's one of those weird circumstances where those affixes wouldn't be very hard on any other mob type, but that combination of affixes with a mob that has almost no unit collision is strangely difficult.