Atm I have cleave but I dont really have a 1 on 1 attack lets say for 1 boss.
Ill break it down below, please tell we which skill, include rune, and why that particular skill would b better.
Cleave: 5 fury per attack, 120% damage to enemies caught in the swing. Stack with Broad sweep rune increase damage to 156%.
Frenzy: 3 fury per attack, 110% damage per hit, every hit increases speed by 15%, for a max speed increase of 75%. Stack with Maniac rune, damage per hit increases by 4%.
Hard to imagine a build w/o Cleave, but to answer your question, in this case I'd pick Frenzy over it. The reason -from a WoW point of view- is simple: You need to kill the bosses (=> single target damage). While Cleave would get you faster through trash packs, you still have WW and Revenge for some aoe damage and it's only trash after all. You will beat it anyway, sooner or later. Bosses however want to be tackled with full force, otherwise they kill you.
I can foresee a discussion about champion packs now, but keep in mind, that it's not necessarily the best option to aoe them down. Unless they're Avengers, of course
That being said, I'd use both skills or Bash instead of Frenzy.
Hard to imagine a build w/o Cleave, but to answer your question, in this case I'd pick Frenzy over it. The reason -from a WoW point of view- is simple: You need to kill the bosses (=> single target damage). While Cleave would get you faster through trash packs, you still have WW and Revenge for some aoe damage and it's only trash after all. You will beat it anyway, sooner or later. Bosses however want to be tackled with full force, otherwise they kill you.
I can foresee a discussion about champion packs now, but keep in mind, that it's not necessarily the best option to aoe them down. Unless they're Avengers, of course
That being said, I'd use both skills or Bash instead of Frenzy.
Ya its something I might have to try out, different options and such, see what works. But along the lines of Single target damage thats where my thought process was, frenzy was what i was thinking of. I'll check out bash to just 2 c.
Go with Frenzy/maniac, you have WW for AoE and I'd consider replacing you passive ability Superstition with Relentless.
Reason I suggest this is because with Frenzy you might possibly get overwhelmed and if they bring you below 20% you'll become tanky with free WW. A tiny bit of life leech will pretty much make you unkillable during this.
I can foresee a discussion about champion packs now, but keep in mind, that it's not necessarily the best option to aoe them down. Unless they're Avengers, of course
Haha Yes, for sure!
Well don't know if you meant me by that, because I never saw some1 using this argument except for me, but my point is, 156% weapon dmg (with bs rune) is also a great single target dmg.
Yes champions, with multishot+lighting for example, will kind of nuke your ass But lets face the facts - you'll kill groups of mobs far longer than bosses, because farming only boss is not an option in d3 anymore, not so great option to be precise.
No I never meant you at all, I was just thinking about it my self lately, since the games not out yet ive been thinking TOO much lol
You make very valid points, in regards to bosses vs mobs. I just feel frezy could and might fit better. I wont really know until i mess around in game. But since I cant do that yet, just getting peoples thoughts :Thumbs Up:
Go with Frenzy/maniac, you have WW for AoE and I'd consider replacing you passive ability Superstition with Relentless.
Reason I suggest this is because with Frenzy you might possibly get overwhelmed and if they bring you below 20% you'll become tanky with free WW. A tiny bit of life leech will pretty much make you unkillable during this.
Cool thanks, ya ive got the same line of thinking about frenzy and WW as a Aoe. Will look into the passive as well.
I don't know, I think Relentless is bullshit.
When you are below 20% you hit potion and fight on, if you are counting to be "constantly" below 20% this passive will be a possible improvement..
But for SC, and imho we are talking here about SC is this a waste of a passive slot in my eyes..
For sure, If you play HC you should consider it a must, just because your death would be permament.
Good point again, SC I would think is good for inferno helps with resists no?
Well, in something like inferno wasnt it recommended to have a stun of some kind? Bash carries that in a rune doesnt it?
EDIT: yes, this is frenzy/cleave. Frenzy sounds like it is good for bosses (I say sounds because honestly math isnt my strong point), but wouldnt stun help?
I personally think each of the three skills are balanced for the most part. Bash is single target damage with defensive bonuses, Cleave helps your AoE damage and Frenzy is single target damage that gives extra fury generation. There's a lot of room for mixing and matching... plus you can pick and use one you enjoy the most.
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Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
Personally i think the argument that relentless is better for HC then SC is a bad argument. I'm not sure about you guys but even though i'm going to die countless times while trying to farm inferno for gear. I don't plan on dying. Relentless is a passive oh shit button that activates when your extremely low on hp. Do you want to rely on your reflexes to hit a pot or one of your other hp regen abilities? If you were able to save yourself fast enough that you wouldn't have to rely on it then the difference between HC and SC is a moot point. Personally i think i'm going to get alot of mileage out of that passive.
see that's what i'm worried about. I remember in D2 when i'd WW and iron maiden would go off. There was nothing you could do to stop yourself from dying. I don't think it's the same for D3, i think we'll be able to stop the WW by pushing another ability. However, ignore pain has a 30sec CD. Sometimes 30seconds can feel like a lifetime when your getting your ass handed to you. As far as i'm aware relentless doesn't have an ICD but i could be wrong.
Plus my build is highly risky so it's one of the main reasons i'll be using it. Going for classic D2 build with high dmg/crit with life leach/hp regen. If i'm dying way too often then obviously i'll have to throw more dmg reduction in. if i was SnB then hell relentless would be practically useless.
cleave. it will do the most damage most of the time as it rearly are only 1 monster infront of you.
the second there is 2 you are on par whit maxed stack frenzy
the second there is 3 you are doing more damage then any other fury regen skill.
also the damage is close enough to be used for single target as well.
For fury generation, a good combo is a mighty weapon+weapon master passive. You will generate +3 fury per hit, Bash+Onslaught will do 194% damage and generate +15 fury.
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I want to travel to exotic places, meet interesting people. And then throw spider-filled jars of pottery at them.
Well, in something like inferno wasnt it recommended to have a stun of some kind? Bash carries that in a rune doesnt it?
EDIT: yes, this is frenzy/cleave. Frenzy sounds like it is good for bosses (I say sounds because honestly math isnt my strong point), but wouldnt stun help?
As far as I understand it stun would be pointless in inferno.
The "strong vs. bosses" and "strong vs. everything else" might pose a problem in hell/preparing for Inferno, considering we are not allowed to change runes/skills after 60 to keep Nephalom buff...
Right now I am going with keeping both... later - might go with frenzy and Hammer or WW only ;/
I never knew this, after 60 you cant change skills anymore? can u confirm this with a link or something.
I personally think each of the three skills are balanced for the most part. Bash is single target damage with defensive bonuses, Cleave helps your AoE damage and Frenzy is single target damage that gives extra fury generation. There's a lot of room for mixing and matching... plus you can pick and use one you enjoy the most.
Yup I agree with you its gonna be a play and feel for me. THen ill choose what I think works best.
the debate is more around when you reach 60, the Nephalem buff disappears if you change something in your spec, so people want to know wich one they should take and why
the debate is more around when you reach 60, the Nephalem buff disappears if you change something in your spec, so people want to know wich one they should take and why
What there taking away a buff, for which skill? and can you supply me with a official link?
yes, you can change skills and runes at level 60, regardless of SC/HC and difficulty.
You just will be discouraged from doing so due to Nephalem Valor, which is a buff you get after killing an elite that boosts your MF, and fades away when you change a skill, a rune, both, or more than one of either.
I had no idea that even existed, is this nephalem valor buff seen somewhere like how do you know you have it? Sorry 4 the noob question
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Atm I have cleave but I dont really have a 1 on 1 attack lets say for 1 boss.
Ill break it down below, please tell we which skill, include rune, and why that particular skill would b better.
Cleave: 5 fury per attack, 120% damage to enemies caught in the swing. Stack with Broad sweep rune increase damage to 156%.
Frenzy: 3 fury per attack, 110% damage per hit, every hit increases speed by 15%, for a max speed increase of 75%. Stack with Maniac rune, damage per hit increases by 4%.
So which would suit me better and why?
I can foresee a discussion about champion packs now, but keep in mind, that it's not necessarily the best option to aoe them down. Unless they're Avengers, of course
That being said, I'd use both skills or Bash instead of Frenzy.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Ya its something I might have to try out, different options and such, see what works. But along the lines of Single target damage thats where my thought process was, frenzy was what i was thinking of. I'll check out bash to just 2 c.
Thanks for the input
Reason I suggest this is because with Frenzy you might possibly get overwhelmed and if they bring you below 20% you'll become tanky with free WW. A tiny bit of life leech will pretty much make you unkillable during this.
No I never meant you at all, I was just thinking about it my self lately, since the games not out yet ive been thinking TOO much lol
You make very valid points, in regards to bosses vs mobs. I just feel frezy could and might fit better. I wont really know until i mess around in game. But since I cant do that yet, just getting peoples thoughts :Thumbs Up:
Cool thanks, ya ive got the same line of thinking about frenzy and WW as a Aoe. Will look into the passive as well.
Thanks 4 all the comments wicked help
Good point again, SC I would think is good for inferno helps with resists no?
EDIT: yes, this is frenzy/cleave. Frenzy sounds like it is good for bosses (I say sounds because honestly math isnt my strong point), but wouldnt stun help?
Plus my build is highly risky so it's one of the main reasons i'll be using it. Going for classic D2 build with high dmg/crit with life leach/hp regen. If i'm dying way too often then obviously i'll have to throw more dmg reduction in. if i was SnB then hell relentless would be practically useless.
the second there is 2 you are on par whit maxed stack frenzy
the second there is 3 you are doing more damage then any other fury regen skill.
also the damage is close enough to be used for single target as well.
As far as I understand it stun would be pointless in inferno.
I never knew this, after 60 you cant change skills anymore? can u confirm this with a link or something.
Yup I agree with you its gonna be a play and feel for me. THen ill choose what I think works best.
Bash for me seems like the weaker out of the 3 available and I dont like the stun att either
the debate is more around when you reach 60, the Nephalem buff disappears if you change something in your spec, so people want to know wich one they should take and why
What there taking away a buff, for which skill? and can you supply me with a official link?
I had no idea that even existed, is this nephalem valor buff seen somewhere like how do you know you have it? Sorry 4 the noob question