It's quite frustrating to have a 120 second ability on your bar. Even if they are "situational" as they are supposed to be, when you need firepower or a burst of damage, but still - these abilities are DAMN AWESOME and its a shame they need to have such a long CD.
Look at other classes for instance (yes, I know I shouldn't compare, but still) - they ALL have a companion skill that has 100% uptime. ALL classes. We have companions that can be up only for 20 seconds. and the shortest you can make it is with sacrificing a passive to make it 80 sec CD. I don't understand it. Our companions aren't THAT powerful to justify a 2 minute cooldown.
Wrath and Quake are also pretty amazing, yet I still don't understand why such a long time.
Why not make them a bit less powerful, but have higher uptime?..
For me everything beyond 20 seconds is too much. But if Quake would be 30sec, I would take it gladly. Even if it was weaker.
And taking a passive for lowered CD's always seems like a waste to me :/..
Hmm no I disagree, if you transform the 2min cooldown into 20s you have to reduce its strenght A LOT and it makes it really shitty.
Now you end up with a shitty cooldown available often, this is a waste of slot space. With a 2min cooldown you can make an ability that really matters in tense situations which you shouldn't come across every 10s, this is the purpose of a cooldown and imo makes perfect sense. If you have to wait for your cooldown every 20s you are not where you belong.
I've finally seen berserker and quake skills in action in the last barbarian video and I really loved them!
By the way, we already got a limited action bar, and having to fill 1 out of 6 available spot with a 120 sec ability, to me, it's quite a waste.
Agree with casanova, time to killing packs could change things!
Not really, because I'd like to use it more then once per fight.
Hmm no I disagree, if you transform the 2min cooldown into 20s you have to reduce its strenght A LOT and it makes it really shitty.
Now you end up with a shitty cooldown available often, this is a waste of slot space. With a 2min cooldown you can make an ability that really matters in tense situations which you shouldn't come across every 10s, this is the purpose of a cooldown and imo makes perfect sense. If you have to wait for your cooldown every 20s you are not where you belong.
Making it a 30 second CD doesn't mean killing it completely. Just making it a bit weaker so it wouldn't be too OP. It can still be very strong. a 30 second CD can make a lot of difference.
I've never been a fan of long cooldown skills, even in MMO's, but at least they have a place there since mobs tend to take a long time to die so 2 minutes isn't 50+ kills. In Diablo, I don't think that they have a place. Do you hit it whenever it comes off cooldown or save it for emergencies? If you hit it whenever it's off cooldown, you won't be very efficienct with it's use. If you save it for emergencies, you've got a skill you use once every 15+ minutes most likely. If there's an optimal median between these extremes, I've never been able to find it and I usually err toward saving the ability, and then I forget I even have it when I need it.
Even if you have enough spammable attacks and utility abilities, you're probably giving up a constant buff you could have going like a shout in order to have one of these long cooldown skills. This seems to be pretty much never worth it in my opinion as a lot of emergency situations could simply be avoided by having more buffs, and Barbarian shouts have 100% uptime.
Now, if the cooldown on these skills was somewhere closer to 30-45 seconds and the uptime percentage was higher, I could see taking them. As things stand though, I don't see them as strong choices in any build.
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...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
People that complain about the 120 sec cooldown, fail to see the purpose of thous skills. They are your backup, heavy artillery for when you come across big bad guys. You are to use them on elite's, champion packs and bosses. And they are suposed to make you feel Godlike, it would have no point if you could end up using it 24/7, then it would be just another normal skill and not a limit braker it is with a long cooldown and high power.
^ probly because in Diablo 1/2 you could spam as long as you had the mana up for it. Some things like poison nova werent good to spam because you would just override the poison tick counter, but his argument is based on the earlier games in the series, and based on those games, he is 100% correct. Diablo was a spam game, is it now? nope.
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
^ probly because in Diablo 1/2 you could spam as long as you had the mana up for it. Some things like poison nova werent good to spam because you would just override the poison tick counter, but his argument is based on the earlier games in the series, and based on those games, he is 100% correct. Diablo was a spam game, is it now? nope.
Except it still isn't relevant to Diablo 3, nor is referencing WoW like every other uneducated back seat game developer helping his argument.
I think its good to have 2 minute cool downs. These means you have some strategic skills rather than simply spamming skills...
Diablo is a spaming game, WoW is a cooldown game.
Lol'd hard. This is not a valid argument at all. Who are you to say what is Diablo? HA
Have you played diablo? Diablo 2? Diablo:LoD? As of now these games define diablo. Are you confused? Diablo 3 is not officially released where as the titles i just listed have been released for years. Everything in Diablo 3 can change, it is in the beta stage. The previous games define diablo, not diablo 3. So as i was saying diablo, as in what diablo currently is thought of, the previous games, is a game of spamming abilities, none of which had any cooldowns more than 1-2 seconds except abilities like the hydra, which made sense. No ability in the games that define diablo have cooldowns greater than 10 seconds. So as a person who has played the games that define diablo, I have every right to say what it is. I am in no way talking about the future which would be diablo 3, just so we are clear... I do not want to confuse you.
I think its good to have 2 minute cool downs. These means you have some strategic skills rather than simply spamming skills...
Diablo is a spaming game, WoW is a cooldown game.
Lol'd hard. This is not a valid argument at all. Who are you to say what is Diablo? HA
Have you played diablo? Diablo 2? Diablo:LoD? As of now these games define diablo. Are you confused? Diablo 3 is not officially released where as the titles i just listed have been released for years. Everything in Diablo 3 can change, it is in the beta stage. The previous games define diablo, not diablo 3. So as i was saying diablo, as in what diablo currently is thought of, the previous games, is a game of spamming abilities, none of which had any cooldowns more than 1-2 seconds except abilities like the hydra, which made sense. No ability in the games that define diablo have cooldowns greater than 10 seconds. So as a person who has played the games that define diablo, I have every right to say what it is. I am in no way talking about the future which would be diablo 3, just so we are clear... I do not want to confuse you.
It seems like,
Diablo 3 is not Diablo 1-2+Exp which I have played for 12 years. We are a progressive society and this is what brings new and fun things to the game. Don't like the 2 minute cooldowns? Don't use them.
There is no need to be upset.
EDIT:
I should also add that this "spamming" mentality you focus on as your main argument is not what defines Daiblo. Diablo is an item finding PVE game. The only reason Diablo 2 was a spell spamfest was due to mana pots. Diablo 3 doesn't have mana pots and instead makes you use your resources strategically instead of mindlessly. This makes 2 minute cooldowns even more viable; bringing plenty more depth to the already stellar classes.
I think its good to have 2 minute cool downs. These means you have some strategic skills rather than simply spamming skills...
Diablo is a spaming game, WoW is a cooldown game.
Dude don't be ignorant. Practically EVERY ARPG game these days has some cool down skills.
And besides ... I could say our mom is a spamming and THEN cooldown game.
Diablo was created 10+ years ago, which logically excludes it from a game of "these days". So as a game of the past, which diablo is a game of the past. Considering diablo 3 is not yet out to everyone in the public and developers can change most anything they want still, diablo 3 does not define the diablo franchise. The games of the past do. So your argument of diablo being current, is invalid, your silly little joke is invalid, and you my friend look ignorant.
I think its good to have 2 minute cool downs. These means you have some strategic skills rather than simply spamming skills...
Diablo is a spaming game, WoW is a cooldown game.
Lol'd hard. This is not a valid argument at all. Who are you to say what is Diablo? HA
Have you played diablo? Diablo 2? Diablo:LoD? As of now these games define diablo. Are you confused? Diablo 3 is not officially released where as the titles i just listed have been released for years. Everything in Diablo 3 can change, it is in the beta stage. The previous games define diablo, not diablo 3. So as i was saying diablo, as in what diablo currently is thought of, the previous games, is a game of spamming abilities, none of which had any cooldowns more than 1-2 seconds except abilities like the hydra, which made sense. No ability in the games that define diablo have cooldowns greater than 10 seconds. So as a person who has played the games that define diablo, I have every right to say what it is. I am in no way talking about the future which would be diablo 3, just so we are clear... I do not want to confuse you.
I'll say it again ----> IGNORANT
Almost all modern ARPGS have cool downs. Almost all modern ARPGS have skill bars rather than just the left click, right click that Diablo 2 had (and the hotkey to switch the left click and right cick).
Cool downs cause you to actually BUILD a character and to use multiple skills rather than -> Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,... More frozen orb.
Every fucking class has skills that can be spammed. EVERY ONE. You also have a skill bar of 4 skills in addition to left and right click. These skills are designed to be cycled into your spam fest.
You can act all high and mighty... but you do NOT know WTF you are talking about.
I think its good to have 2 minute cool downs. These means you have some strategic skills rather than simply spamming skills...
Diablo is a spaming game, WoW is a cooldown game.
Dude don't be ignorant. Practically EVERY ARPG game these days has some cool down skills.
And besides ... I could say our mom is a spamming and THEN cooldown game.
Diablo was created 10+ years ago, which logically excludes it from a game of "these days". So as a game of the past, which diablo is a game of the past. Considering diablo 3 is not yet out to everyone in the public and developers can change most anything they want still, diablo 3 does not define the diablo franchise. The games of the past do. So your argument of diablo being current, is invalid, your silly little joke is invalid, and you my friend look ignorant.
I think its good to have 2 minute cool downs. These means you have some strategic skills rather than simply spamming skills...
Diablo is a spaming game, WoW is a cooldown game.
Lol'd hard. This is not a valid argument at all. Who are you to say what is Diablo? HA
Have you played diablo? Diablo 2? Diablo:LoD? As of now these games define diablo. Are you confused? Diablo 3 is not officially released where as the titles i just listed have been released for years. Everything in Diablo 3 can change, it is in the beta stage. The previous games define diablo, not diablo 3. So as i was saying diablo, as in what diablo currently is thought of, the previous games, is a game of spamming abilities, none of which had any cooldowns more than 1-2 seconds except abilities like the hydra, which made sense. No ability in the games that define diablo have cooldowns greater than 10 seconds. So as a person who has played the games that define diablo, I have every right to say what it is. I am in no way talking about the future which would be diablo 3, just so we are clear... I do not want to confuse you.
I'll say it again ----> IGNORANT
Almost all modern ARPGS have cool downs. Almost all modern ARPGS have skill bars rather than just the left click, right click that Diablo 2 had (and the hotkey to switch the left click and right cick).
Cool downs cause you to actually BUILD a character and to use multiple skills rather than -> Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,... More frozen orb.
Every fucking class has skills that can be spammed. EVERY ONE. You also have a skill bar of 4 skills in addition to left and right click. These skills are designed to be cycled into your spam fest.
You can act all high and mighty... but you do NOT know WTF you are talking about.
I actually do, you are the one that is confused. Diablo 3 is not out yet, so it cannot define the franchies. In my comment i was referring to the past or are you too stupid to understand that?
Almost all modern ARPGS have cool downs. Almost all modern ARPGS have skill bars rather than just the left click, right click that Diablo 2 had (and the hotkey to switch the left click and right cick).
Cool downs cause you to actually BUILD a character and to use multiple skills rather than -> Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,... More frozen orb.
Every fucking class has skills that can be spammed. EVERY ONE. You also have a skill bar of 4 skills in addition to left and right click. These skills are designed to be cycled into your spam fest.
You can act all high and mighty... but you do NOT know WTF you are talking about.
I actually do, you are the one that is confused. Diablo 3 is not out yet, so it cannot define the franchies. In my comment i was referring to the past or are you too stupid to understand that?
You didn't say anything valid... I explicitly told you why skills have a cooldown (skill bars and cycling in skills).
You didn't explicitly give a valid reason for why cooldowns are bad other than OMGZZ I CAN'T SPAMZZZZ.
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Look at other classes for instance (yes, I know I shouldn't compare, but still) - they ALL have a companion skill that has 100% uptime. ALL classes. We have companions that can be up only for 20 seconds. and the shortest you can make it is with sacrificing a passive to make it 80 sec CD. I don't understand it. Our companions aren't THAT powerful to justify a 2 minute cooldown.
Wrath and Quake are also pretty amazing, yet I still don't understand why such a long time.
Why not make them a bit less powerful, but have higher uptime?..
For me everything beyond 20 seconds is too much. But if Quake would be 30sec, I would take it gladly. Even if it was weaker.
And taking a passive for lowered CD's always seems like a waste to me :/..
What do you think?
I think it will depend how long packs take to kill on hell / inferno with 4 people in your game.
Now you end up with a shitty cooldown available often, this is a waste of slot space. With a 2min cooldown you can make an ability that really matters in tense situations which you shouldn't come across every 10s, this is the purpose of a cooldown and imo makes perfect sense. If you have to wait for your cooldown every 20s you are not where you belong.
Give me a break in inferno you'll have to be strategic either way, regardless of your cd's or skills.
Not really, because I'd like to use it more then once per fight.
Making it a 30 second CD doesn't mean killing it completely. Just making it a bit weaker so it wouldn't be too OP. It can still be very strong. a 30 second CD can make a lot of difference.
Even if you have enough spammable attacks and utility abilities, you're probably giving up a constant buff you could have going like a shout in order to have one of these long cooldown skills. This seems to be pretty much never worth it in my opinion as a lot of emergency situations could simply be avoided by having more buffs, and Barbarian shouts have 100% uptime.
Now, if the cooldown on these skills was somewhere closer to 30-45 seconds and the uptime percentage was higher, I could see taking them. As things stand though, I don't see them as strong choices in any build.
Build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bVSTjP!VTS!ZcZbaa
Diablo is a spaming game, WoW is a cooldown game.
Dude don't be ignorant. Practically EVERY ARPG game these days has some cool down skills.
And besides ... I could say our mom is a spamming and THEN cooldown game.
Lol'd hard. This is not a valid argument at all. Who are you to say what is Diablo? HA
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Except it still isn't relevant to Diablo 3, nor is referencing WoW like every other uneducated back seat game developer helping his argument.
Have you played diablo? Diablo 2? Diablo:LoD? As of now these games define diablo. Are you confused? Diablo 3 is not officially released where as the titles i just listed have been released for years. Everything in Diablo 3 can change, it is in the beta stage. The previous games define diablo, not diablo 3. So as i was saying diablo, as in what diablo currently is thought of, the previous games, is a game of spamming abilities, none of which had any cooldowns more than 1-2 seconds except abilities like the hydra, which made sense. No ability in the games that define diablo have cooldowns greater than 10 seconds. So as a person who has played the games that define diablo, I have every right to say what it is. I am in no way talking about the future which would be diablo 3, just so we are clear... I do not want to confuse you.
It seems like,
Diablo 3 is not Diablo 1-2+Exp which I have played for 12 years. We are a progressive society and this is what brings new and fun things to the game. Don't like the 2 minute cooldowns? Don't use them.
There is no need to be upset.
EDIT:
I should also add that this "spamming" mentality you focus on as your main argument is not what defines Daiblo. Diablo is an item finding PVE game. The only reason Diablo 2 was a spell spamfest was due to mana pots. Diablo 3 doesn't have mana pots and instead makes you use your resources strategically instead of mindlessly. This makes 2 minute cooldowns even more viable; bringing plenty more depth to the already stellar classes.
I'll say it again ----> IGNORANT
Almost all modern ARPGS have cool downs. Almost all modern ARPGS have skill bars rather than just the left click, right click that Diablo 2 had (and the hotkey to switch the left click and right cick).
Cool downs cause you to actually BUILD a character and to use multiple skills rather than -> Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,Frozen Orb,... More frozen orb.
Every fucking class has skills that can be spammed. EVERY ONE. You also have a skill bar of 4 skills in addition to left and right click. These skills are designed to be cycled into your spam fest.
You can act all high and mighty... but you do NOT know WTF you are talking about.
Again... you are clueless sir.
You didn't say anything valid... I explicitly told you why skills have a cooldown (skill bars and cycling in skills).
You didn't explicitly give a valid reason for why cooldowns are bad other than OMGZZ I CAN'T SPAMZZZZ.