Changes - Ravage on rend for more targets hit, replaced Nerves of Steel with Weapon Master. Overview:
I love seismic slam. So much so that I wanted to be able to use it way more frequently.
With that out of the way, I'm build a 1H + Shield build that uses Overpower, Leap attack, War Cry, being struck in combat,Revenge and base weapon attacking while bellow 15 to generate fury.
This is a high Vitality build concentrating around thorns, seismic slam, rend and revenge to do damage.
It will not by any means kill things faster than your build, however; damage reduction is very high, supported by an escape / initiation, constant life leach and very good Dot Damage.
On the Offence:
Seismic Slam is a fantastic barbarian ranged attack that allows for kitting if needed giving immense health regen through the Bloodthirst passive when striking multiple enemies. The cone arc on this skill is gigantic, I love it. Another use for Seismic slam is clustering mobs into walls or corners thanks to the huge knock back cone which is a great synergy to Rend.
Leap attack, Rend and Overpower all work together very well, getting your Come at me Bro barbarian the most bang for his cooldown buck. Essentially Overpower's damage is not extreme, but it's an amazing fury generator on a relatively short cooldown. Rend is an extremely undervalued Fury spender that does massive damage in an AOE over time. Leap attack is universally acceptable in almost any build simply because it can be modified to be an offensive or defensive staple.
On the Defence:
War Cry is pretty self explanatory; directly increasing the effectiveness of Thorns and character survival through more armour and 10% more max life. A great support buff to all team mates.
Subject to change depending on the need to generate more fury or not I will be switching the rune on Revenge to Provocation if I see that more healing is required.
Seismic Slam as mentioned above is a great tool to use if a quick retreat or spacing is required.
This thread is also a general discussion surrounding Rend and its usefulness.
Comments, your changes and props all welcome!
All trolls will be reported.
From what i understand you took Vengeance is mine rune for extra fury, however from the current wording in the tooltip it seems that it will generate 5 fury per revenge used and not 5 fury per enemy hit and you also plan on knocking back enemies so when not getting hit all the time Provocation will probably be very nice to have.
Other thing i wanted to comment on is Bloodthirst. Since you want defensive build i think you would be better off with Superstition because it gives a nice defense against our biggest enemies (ranged) and it also has a chance to generate fury which would be very useful. My 2nd choice would be Weapon Master because even though it's not defensive i think you could use some damage boost.
Going with Mighty weapon you would need 6 enemies with Seismic Slam or 7 with Rend for them to generate more fury than what their cost is.
One thing that's bugging me is that knock back from Seismic Slam kinda hinders Rends small range. Should try it out in Beta though and see how that works.
Overall i can't say I'm thrilled about such a defensive build but i guess it can work and who knows, maybe when we get to Hell/Inferno we'll all have to go super defensive.
Vengeance is Mine does indeed only generate 5 fury when hit, but fury generation is not of great concern to me really, it's more the life steal boost. Provocation though as I mentioned is definitely on the list to try out as a variation depending on how my fury generation is.
Bloodthirst I'd like to keep in order to gain a lot of life back even when out of melee range with seismic slam.
What I may end up doing is dropping Nerves of Steel in favor of Weapon Master, that was on my mind, thank you for mentioning it. This will give me either more Fury Generation allowing for the swap of rune on Revenge or just a nice static damage boost.
The knock back on seismic slam keep in mind if saved for after Rend is applied to the targets, allowing them to take damage from the DoT and the cone.
I'm all for offensive build, I have about 5 saved currently on my calculator which I consider to be very strong, I can post them if requested.
That gif should a skill for the barbarian, you just shoot out topless bros in shopping carts.
I like the build but Barbarians have great generators i think its a bad idea to not use one. 100% dmg single attack will be the death of you. Because you want to go without an attack generator then you forced yourself to pick a run for revenge that isn't my favorite, but you have no choice you need the fury. Fury from revenge isn't reliable and you need a reliable way to get fury. Those seconds of no fury with this build will be the death of you because you are going to attack a few times with regular attack and just drop all your fury right away. You'll rarely have the opportunity to actually drop all 100 fury points into your spenders because you'll be too scared to save up fury with your weak ass single attacks. The play for this build will have you spending fury ASAP. Maybe you might save for 2 or 3 slams but in harder difficulties that normal attack might not do the job.
Gnarf mentioned to put in superstition and that is actually a must for this build with that extra fury regen.
That gif should a skill for the barbarian, you just shoot out topless bros in shopping carts.
I like the build but Barbarians have great generators i think its a bad idea to not use one. 100% dmg single attack will be the death of you. Because you want to go without an attack generator then you forced yourself to pick a run for revenge that isn't my favorite, but you have no choice you need the fury. Fury from revenge isn't reliable and you need a reliable way to get fury. Those seconds of no fury with this build will be the death of you because you are going to attack a few times with regular attack and just drop all your fury right away. You'll rarely have the opportunity to actually drop all 100 fury points into your spenders because you'll be too scared to save up fury with your weak ass single attacks. The play for this build will have you spending fury ASAP. Maybe you might save for 2 or 3 slams but in harder difficulties that normal attack might not do the job.
Gnarf mentioned to put in superstition and that is actually a must for this build with that extra fury regen.
Thanks for the reply.
Also +1, we need a Zyzz shoppingcart attack.
As for your gripes with Fury it really isn't as bad as you make it seem.
Granted I haven't been able to test the Fury generation of Mighty weapon with Weapon master so this is all speculation
Let's assume I drop Nerves of Steel for Weapon master with a Mighty weapon for +3 Fury per hit:
Leap attack - 15 Fury + 3 Fury for every enemy hit by the attack as well
Standard Attack - 9 Fury per hit
Overpower after a Leap attack into as crowd (let's lowball and say 4 mobs hit) - 48 fury
Revenge - 5 fury+ 3 fury for every enemy hit
War Cry - 30 Fury
Being hit by any attack or spell has a chance to generate 1 fury.
Going from pack to pack isn't much of a concern, overpower cooldown will be up at almost all the time when initiating into a new group.
Fury also does not degenerate very fast, and it does not degenerate at all when you are being attacked or standing around enemies (as per my testing in the beta).
After reading your explanation of fury generation im really excited to see this build in action (I was also worried about it :)). I just hope they dont nerf Weapons Master...seems as if it can be an awesome fury generator.
After reading your explanation of fury generation im really excited to see this build in action (I was also worried about it :)). I just hope they dont nerf Weapons Master...seems as if it can be an awesome fury generator.
Agreed, I think it's one of the most universally adept passives we get.
Granted I haven't been able to test the Fury generation of Mighty weapon with Weapon master so this is all speculation
Let's assume I drop Nerves of Steel for Weapon master with a Mighty weapon for +3 Fury per hit:
Leap attack - 15 Fury + 3 Fury for every enemy hit by the attack as well
Standard Attack - 9 Fury per hit
Overpower after a Leap attack into as crowd (let's lowball and say 4 mobs hit) - 48 fury
Revenge - 5 fury+ 3 fury for every enemy hit
War Cry - 30 Fury
Being hit by any attack or spell has a chance to generate 1 fury.
Overpower has been reduced to 165% WD, and on a 15 sec CD, would be 36 fury every 15 sec (vs 3 mobs, no crits, etc.). Cleave (vs 3 mobs) would provide 120% WD and 14 fury per attack. May be a little more reliable for a bit less damage and fury. [This is w/o Weapon Master]
If you are still planning on having a Thorns build, Tough as Nails is required I'd say.
And for survivability, I agree with Gnraf, I think you'll lose more hp without Nerves of Steel or Superstition than you'll gain back with Bloodthirst in this build. Especially if you stack Vit and armor.
Overpower has been reduced to 165% WD, and on a 15 sec CD, would be 36 fury every 15 sec (vs 3 mobs, no crits, etc.). Cleave (vs 3 mobs) would provide 120% WD and 14 fury per attack. May be a little more reliable for a bit less damage and fury. [This is w/o Weapon Master]
If you are still planning on having a Thorns build, Tough as Nails is required I'd say.
And for survivability, I agree with Gnraf, I think you'll lose more hp without Nerves of Steel or Superstition than you'll gain back with Bloodthirst in this build. Especially if you stack Vit and armor.
I'm well aware of the change to Overpower, 15 seconds for a crazy amount of fury is well worth it IMO.
I'm keeping Tough as nails if you've seen my second revised build above,
As for the Nerves of Steel point, this swap was an easy one, I should have seen it earlier, Weapon master is just a superior talent for this build if I want to maintain a decent flow of fury at all times. I've done lots of testing on fury mechanics and I will have no problems at all with it once Weapon master is in my arsenal.
Tough as Nails also allows for stacking of other stats over vitality and actually modifies my IAV chart a bit (i'll know more once spreadsheeting).
I've mentioned my reasoning for keeping Bloodthirst, there simply isn't enough healing in this build for my preference. The other option which I am considering is Dreadnaught instead of Bloodthirst. I feel in inferno with champion pack hunting, there's a ton of disable happening to your character, especially a barbarian who is the most hit character out of all the classes.
Glad you changed for Tough as Nails unless you get massive vitality from somewhere I dont think it can match +50% armor which comes from your main stat as well as gear. Having two fury spenders with just passives from other skills providing fury.. I dont know it seems quite interesting but instead of Rend for example you could get Cleave with Reaping Swing which if youre Attack Speed is fast enough I guess could put out 2 hits in the frame it takes to make 1 rend. Also a question lets say your skills are on cooldown youre in a long fight and are out of fury and have nothing to do, could you still normal attack? I think the game system is smart and recognizes and lets you just normal swing but im not sure someone who knows should comment. Interesting thing here is if you got Mighty Weapons theyll generate fury from any attack you do wont they so everything here is basically -6 fury.
The main deal I think here is Vengeance which will keep the fury going between the cds of the others (and supposing you do get some standard attacks in) which will provide LL but will it be enough? Say we didnt have Bloodthirst and instead opted for Animosity?
Build 1: http://us.battle.net...RScd!bVd!YYabbc
Build 2 (Revised): http://us.battle.net...RScd!YVd!YYabac
UP TO DATE CALC AND REVISED BUILD 3: http://d3db.com/tool/calculator/barbarian/13405
Changes - Ravage on rend for more targets hit, replaced Nerves of Steel with Weapon Master.
Overview:
I love seismic slam. So much so that I wanted to be able to use it way more frequently.
With that out of the way, I'm build a 1H + Shield build that uses Overpower, Leap attack, War Cry, being struck in combat,Revenge and base weapon attacking while bellow 15 to generate fury.
This is a high Vitality build concentrating around thorns, seismic slam, rend and revenge to do damage.
It will not by any means kill things faster than your build, however; damage reduction is very high, supported by an escape / initiation, constant life leach and very good Dot Damage.
Primary Item Affix Values (IAV) :
3 - Armour
3 - Vitality
2.5 - Thorns
2 - Strength
2 - +Damage
1.5 - Movement Speed %
?? (More to come)
On the Offence:
Seismic Slam is a fantastic barbarian ranged attack that allows for kitting if needed giving immense health regen through the Bloodthirst passive when striking multiple enemies. The cone arc on this skill is gigantic, I love it. Another use for Seismic slam is clustering mobs into walls or corners thanks to the huge knock back cone which is a great synergy to Rend.
Leap attack, Rend and Overpower all work together very well, getting your Come at me Bro barbarian the most bang for his cooldown buck. Essentially Overpower's damage is not extreme, but it's an amazing fury generator on a relatively short cooldown. Rend is an extremely undervalued Fury spender that does massive damage in an AOE over time. Leap attack is universally acceptable in almost any build simply because it can be modified to be an offensive or defensive staple.
On the Defence:
War Cry is pretty self explanatory; directly increasing the effectiveness of Thorns and character survival through more armour and 10% more max life. A great support buff to all team mates.
Subject to change depending on the need to generate more fury or not I will be switching the rune on Revenge to Provocation if I see that more healing is required.
Seismic Slam as mentioned above is a great tool to use if a quick retreat or spacing is required.
This thread is also a general discussion surrounding Rend and its usefulness.
Comments, your changes and props all welcome!
All trolls will be reported.
Vengeance is Mine does indeed only generate 5 fury when hit, but fury generation is not of great concern to me really, it's more the life steal boost. Provocation though as I mentioned is definitely on the list to try out as a variation depending on how my fury generation is.
Bloodthirst I'd like to keep in order to gain a lot of life back even when out of melee range with seismic slam.
What I may end up doing is dropping Nerves of Steel in favor of Weapon Master, that was on my mind, thank you for mentioning it. This will give me either more Fury Generation allowing for the swap of rune on Revenge or just a nice static damage boost.
The knock back on seismic slam keep in mind if saved for after Rend is applied to the targets, allowing them to take damage from the DoT and the cone.
I'm all for offensive build, I have about 5 saved currently on my calculator which I consider to be very strong, I can post them if requested.
I like the build but Barbarians have great generators i think its a bad idea to not use one. 100% dmg single attack will be the death of you. Because you want to go without an attack generator then you forced yourself to pick a run for revenge that isn't my favorite, but you have no choice you need the fury. Fury from revenge isn't reliable and you need a reliable way to get fury. Those seconds of no fury with this build will be the death of you because you are going to attack a few times with regular attack and just drop all your fury right away. You'll rarely have the opportunity to actually drop all 100 fury points into your spenders because you'll be too scared to save up fury with your weak ass single attacks. The play for this build will have you spending fury ASAP. Maybe you might save for 2 or 3 slams but in harder difficulties that normal attack might not do the job.
Gnarf mentioned to put in superstition and that is actually a must for this build with that extra fury regen.
Thanks for the reply.
Also +1, we need a Zyzz shoppingcart attack.
As for your gripes with Fury it really isn't as bad as you make it seem.
Granted I haven't been able to test the Fury generation of Mighty weapon with Weapon master so this is all speculation
Let's assume I drop Nerves of Steel for Weapon master with a Mighty weapon for +3 Fury per hit:
Leap attack - 15 Fury + 3 Fury for every enemy hit by the attack as well
Standard Attack - 9 Fury per hit
Overpower after a Leap attack into as crowd (let's lowball and say 4 mobs hit) - 48 fury
Revenge - 5 fury+ 3 fury for every enemy hit
War Cry - 30 Fury
Being hit by any attack or spell has a chance to generate 1 fury.
Going from pack to pack isn't much of a concern, overpower cooldown will be up at almost all the time when initiating into a new group.
Fury also does not degenerate very fast, and it does not degenerate at all when you are being attacked or standing around enemies (as per my testing in the beta).
Agreed, I think it's one of the most universally adept passives we get.
Overpower has been reduced to 165% WD, and on a 15 sec CD, would be 36 fury every 15 sec (vs 3 mobs, no crits, etc.). Cleave (vs 3 mobs) would provide 120% WD and 14 fury per attack. May be a little more reliable for a bit less damage and fury. [This is w/o Weapon Master]
If you are still planning on having a Thorns build, Tough as Nails is required I'd say.
And for survivability, I agree with Gnraf, I think you'll lose more hp without Nerves of Steel or Superstition than you'll gain back with Bloodthirst in this build. Especially if you stack Vit and armor.
I'd look at something like this: http://d3db.com/tool...barbarian/13344
I'm well aware of the change to Overpower, 15 seconds for a crazy amount of fury is well worth it IMO.
I'm keeping Tough as nails if you've seen my second revised build above,
As for the Nerves of Steel point, this swap was an easy one, I should have seen it earlier, Weapon master is just a superior talent for this build if I want to maintain a decent flow of fury at all times. I've done lots of testing on fury mechanics and I will have no problems at all with it once Weapon master is in my arsenal.
Tough as Nails also allows for stacking of other stats over vitality and actually modifies my IAV chart a bit (i'll know more once spreadsheeting).
I've mentioned my reasoning for keeping Bloodthirst, there simply isn't enough healing in this build for my preference. The other option which I am considering is Dreadnaught instead of Bloodthirst. I feel in inferno with champion pack hunting, there's a ton of disable happening to your character, especially a barbarian who is the most hit character out of all the classes.
The main deal I think here is Vengeance which will keep the fury going between the cds of the others (and supposing you do get some standard attacks in) which will provide LL but will it be enough? Say we didnt have Bloodthirst and instead opted for Animosity?
If you took time to read through all of my detailed explanations you will see fury generation is not an issue. :Thumbs Up: