Barbarian Perma-Wrath of the Berserker build possible -- Best DPS?

  • #1
    Something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fhPYei!XZS!ZZbZbb

    If fury generation beyond 100% is counted towards extending WotB then it may be very possible to keep up constantly (assuming you always have something to hit). If fury generation beyond 100% doesn't count towards maintaining WotB then this will not work.

    - Spam Frenzy until you get 5 stacks
    - Activate WotB
    - Activate Battle Rage every 30 seconds(can socket with golden rune if not generating enough fury to keep WotB up)
    - Ground Stomp every 12 seconds to help generate more fury in order to maintain WotB
    - Once all buffs are up and at maximum level (with full fury), hit Earthquake for massive damage output.

    This rotation would really only work if the stack of Frenzy buffs remains up for a duration (rather than dropping as soon as you use something other than Frenzy).

    You would have a constant
    + 120% attack speed
    + 135% damage (115% if fury isn't 100%)
    + 19% critical chance (+ additional 16% if Overpower is used every 4.5 seconds)
    + 50% critical damage

    If everything were to work as I imagine it, this would likely be the highest steady dps output from a Barbarian (based on what I've experimented with so far).

    Worth a shot...
    Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
  • #2
    1) Read the wording of Frenzy: "Frenzy attack speed increases by 15% with every swing" i.e. only the attack speed of Frenzy gets higher... not your overall attackspeed. If the 15%dmg from the crimson rune works with everything our again just with Frenzy is unknown to me. So your overall attack speed is 45% (WotB) and 120% with Frenzy.

    2) Overpower has a 15sec CD that is reset if you crit... so if you dont crit you wont reset it. With that you cant use it every 4.5sec if you dont crit with it. Maybe you can swith it with Revenge (Alabaster) that has a 15% chance to activate if you are hit and it heals you for 5% of your max HP (you will be hit often enough... from Beta Vids it seems to be up pretty often). And the Alabaster Rune gives you 21% crit for 10sec... (the 10sec duration should be enough to get an other chance to cast it... at least I hope its enough^^).

    3) Maybe change the Berserker Rage passive for Boon of Bul-Kathos? You have 2 Skills that profit from the passive and if you really want to keep WotB running a shorter cooldown could help. Then again if you are ableto keep it up without it ever droping... reducing the CD is pretty stupid... on the other hand it also helps with Earthquake reducing the CD to 55sec if you keep the Golden Rune. With Boon you could also change the rune for Earthquake to something else... the Fury shouldnt be a problem because you only have 1 Spender that only needs to be cast every 30sec... and the passive reduces the CD to 90sec (would be 5sec more than only the Golden Rune).

    Edit: You could also change Ground Stomp... as Barb I really would want to have a Movement Skill and the Furious Charge (Golden Rune) seems pretty intresting for your build. If it generates 15 Fury + 5 Fury per target you only need to hit 3 targets to get the same effect as Ground Stomp... but you have the potential to generate way more Fury... that is if its "15+5 per target" and not just "5 per target" then you would need to hit 6 targets for the same effect...what seems a little hard to achieve on average.
  • #3
    I'm having a hard time finding the high fury generation in this build. Ground stomp will give you enough fury to add 2 seconds and some to Wrath of the Berserker.

    Unforgiving during the 17 seconds is 10 fury which is barely a second.


    This is my "high" fury build that I'm trying out.
    Frenzy with Into the Fray and Mighty Weapons.
    Solid 40% crit chance, with overpower adding another 16.5% whenever possible.

    I do not feel like your build is the highest DPS build I've seen, a bit due to the passives but the low critical chance as well. Since I don't believe you can maintain Wrath for that long, it is basically building it up just to be able to hit earthquake once every 85 seconds.

    @Tenhi
    From the wording, I do believe you get 5 fury per target which makes it really awesome.
    Black Swordsman
  • #4
    Quote from Firehært

    @Tenhi
    From the wording, I do believe you get 5 fury per target which makes it really awesome.


    Well if its really 5 Fury per target... and not 5per target plus the standard 15 Fury it could mean that you only get 5 fury if you only hit one target :o So unless you hit 3 targets you wont get your standard 15 Fury... but then again you have the potential to get far more Fury. So I guess it could be an intended drawback?
  • #5
    Quote from Tenhi

    Quote from Firehært

    @Tenhi
    From the wording, I do believe you get 5 fury per target which makes it really awesome.


    Well if its really 5 Fury per target... and not 5per target plus the standard 15 Fury it could mean that you only get 5 fury if you only hit one target :o So unless you hit 3 targets you wont get your standard 15 Fury... but then again you have the potential to get far more Fury. So I guess it could be an intended drawback?

    Might be. If you look at the other abilities that generate fury, they add "additional" or something similar. I do hope it is 15 fury plus 5 per target but it might make it too powerful. :/
    Black Swordsman
  • #6
    I see what you're saying about Frenzy only increasing the attack speed of that ability, but at the same time I don't plan on using anything else really. Initially I build the build around just spamming Frenzy the whole time. Ground Stomp is something to fall back on if needed. Overpower I just put in there to fill a slot, I didn't look too much into it.

    Furious Charge is too situational for the build, and wouldn't always generate enough fury as is needed. Ground Stomp is a better option because you can hit it every 12s and it's always a guaranteed 31 fury.

    @Fireheart - I'm not sure how you make the argument that my build doesn't generate fury. Swinging 120% faster (likely using 1h weps) I would gain 3 fury/swing (at a rate of who knows how fast -- there will likely be a hard cap on swing speed) + an additional 31 every 12 seconds. On top of this I'm gaining 1 fury constantly, and never degenerating it.

    If this build is unable to maintain WotB then the entire build is scrapped. Just an interesting idea. We'll see what we can do.
    Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
  • #7
    Quote from Nastai

    I see what you're saying about Frenzy only increasing the attack speed of that ability, but at the same time I don't plan on using anything else really. Initially I build the build around just spamming Frenzy the whole time. Ground Stomp is something to fall back on if needed. Overpower I just put in there to fill a slot, I didn't look too much into it.

    Furious Charge is too situational for the build, and wouldn't always generate enough fury as is needed. Ground Stomp is a better option because you can hit it every 12s and it's always a guaranteed 31 fury.

    @Fireheart - I'm not sure how you make the argument that my build doesn't generate fury. Swinging 120% faster (likely using 1h weps) I would gain 3 fury/swing (at a rate of who knows how fast -- there will likely be a hard cap on swing speed) + an additional 31 every 12 seconds. On top of this I'm gaining 1 fury constantly, and never degenerating it.

    If this build is unable to maintain WotB then the entire build is scrapped. Just an interesting idea. We'll see what we can do.

    It's not what I said. I just think you have too low fury generation to keep it up as long as you want it. I might be wrong. I did however suggest another build that has higher fury generation.

    Fury don't degenerate that fast and 30 fury per minute is just way too low for me to even consider. That's why I suggested weapon master with mighty weapons, another fury gain per hit.

    I do hope that these builds work though. I would want to keep Wrath of the Berserker for at least +45 seconds. Rank 7 rune should make it possible to keep it for quite long.
    Black Swordsman
  • #8
    Quote from Firehært

    Quote from Nastai

    I see what you're saying about Frenzy only increasing the attack speed of that ability, but at the same time I don't plan on using anything else really. Initially I build the build around just spamming Frenzy the whole time. Ground Stomp is something to fall back on if needed. Overpower I just put in there to fill a slot, I didn't look too much into it.

    Furious Charge is too situational for the build, and wouldn't always generate enough fury as is needed. Ground Stomp is a better option because you can hit it every 12s and it's always a guaranteed 31 fury.

    @Fireheart - I'm not sure how you make the argument that my build doesn't generate fury. Swinging 120% faster (likely using 1h weps) I would gain 3 fury/swing (at a rate of who knows how fast -- there will likely be a hard cap on swing speed) + an additional 31 every 12 seconds. On top of this I'm gaining 1 fury constantly, and never degenerating it.

    If this build is unable to maintain WotB then the entire build is scrapped. Just an interesting idea. We'll see what we can do.

    It's not what I said. I just think you have too low fury generation to keep it up as long as you want it. I might be wrong. I did however suggest another build that has higher fury generation.

    Fury don't degenerate that fast and 30 fury per minute is just way too low for me to even consider. That's why I suggested weapon master with mighty weapons, another fury gain per hit.

    I do hope that these builds work though. I would want to keep Wrath of the Berserker for at least +45 seconds. Rank 7 rune should make it possible to keep it for quite long.


    Ah, I see what you meant. You may be right, it's just a theory. It would be really cool to see it work out though (plus I expect there will be items to give +fury regen, so that will be helpful).

    I personally think that dual wielding 1h weapons might be better than having +1 fury per hit with mighty weapons. If you swing 3 times in 3 seconds (hitting an enemy 3 times) you generate 12 fury (3x3 for Frenzy, and +3 for each hit with your passive). If I swing 4 times in 3 seconds (assuming 1h will swing faster than mighty weapons) I will generate 12 fury as well, but will free up the passive. There is also a chance that the difference in swing speed may be greater than that, so I may generate even more fury per second. On the other hand, there is also the chance that the swing speed isn't that different, and as a result your build would generate more fury per second (through attacking).

    We really can only speculate so much while the game is still in development. Once the game goes live, the true testing will begin. But I do enjoy some good theorycrafting!
    Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
  • #9
    There are 1H Mighty Weapons :) so you can dual wield them http://us.battle.net...ghty-weapon-1h/

    Edit: They have an attackspeed of 1.3 attacks/sec... Axes have 1.3 too, Swords 1.4, Maces/Speers 1.2 and Dagger have 1.5. I would say using Dagger is... not that good.. so if you look at the other Weapons 1H Mighty Weapons arent that bad attackspeed wise

    Edit2: Oh and I think Mighty Weapon can spawn with +Fury hit... so I guess that makes them even better for fury gain :F
  • #10
    despite other flaws your missing the 1 absolute necessary skill to actually even attempt a never ending WOTB. a fury SPENDER. if your at max fury all the fury ur generating isnt counting in your pool what makes you think it will count towards the WOTB rune effect? its highly doubtful that would even work. your absolute best bet for a never ending WOTB is something more like this:

    http://us.battle.net...PaUW!fZY!bbbbaY

    bash has the highest fury regen per hit by far so you'd use that and war cry to max fury, pop WOTB and revenge when hit then throw like a mad man, your spending fury and getting tons of it per crit and if you run out you can always alternate bash - WT - bash - WT when it doesnt crit, and when it does you gain 27 (lvl 7 golden rune on battle rage) fury to throw 2.7 ( :P) more times and another full second of WOTB. with revenge (lvl 7 rune) up you'll have over 50% chance to crit not conting ANY precision so at least around 55%+ crit so every other throw will give you 27 fury, ala 1 more second. with increased attack speed from WOTB, a fast weapon and stacking insane amounts of precision you could possibly have WOTB up forever esp if you could get up to like 65%+ crit
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #11
    Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

    despite other flaws your missing the 1 absolute necessary skill to actually even attempt a never ending WOTB. a fury SPENDER. if your at max fury all the fury ur generating isnt counting in your pool what makes you think it will count towards the WOTB rune effect? its highly doubtful that would even work. your absolute best bet for a never ending WOTB is something more like this:

    http://us.battle.net...PaUW!fZY!bbbbaY

    bash has the highest fury regen per hit by far so you'd use that and war cry to max fury, pop WOTB and revenge when hit then throw like a mad man, your spending fury and getting tons of it per crit and if you run out you can always alternate bash - WT - bash - WT when it doesnt crit, and when it does you gain 27 (lvl 7 golden rune on battle rage) fury to throw 2.7 ( :P) more times and another full second of WOTB. with revenge (lvl 7 rune) up you'll have over 50% chance to crit not conting ANY precision so at least around 55%+ crit so every other throw will give you 27 fury, ala 1 more second. with increased attack speed from WOTB, a fast weapon and stacking insane amounts of precision you could possibly have WOTB up forever esp if you could get up to like 65%+ crit


    1) I dunno if the Barbs Furygens are the same as the Monks Spiritgens... but if they are the same then the diffrent Furygens have diffrent Attack Speed modifier (for the monk: http://us.battle.net...opic/3811455189). If that is true for the Furygens... my guess would be that Frenzy is way faster than Bash... and that is without counting the Frenzy Attackspeed Buff. So if Bash is better than Frenzy depends on things we dont know for sure. But I guess its hard to come close to Bashs Furygen... 10 Spirit per attack is insane

    2) War Cry is 42 Fury every 30sec. Ground Stomp is 31 Fury every 15sec... thus 62 Fury over 30sec. So Ground Stomp is a better Skill for pure Furygain. Also if you already use No Escape why not use Ancient Spear? Even if you dont count the fact that you already have No Escape... Ancient Spear gives you (with a golden rune...) 29 Fury every 10sec... or 87 Fury over 30sec. Thats an insane amouns of fury... then again I guess all this Throw/Ancient Spear stuff isnt to anybodys liking...

    Edit: Somethink like this? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aRWYhP!ZfY!bbYbZb
  • #12
    Quote from Tenhi

    Edit2: Oh and I think Mighty Weapon can spawn with +Fury hit... so I guess that makes them even better for fury gain :F


    I think that the mighty weapon property was something like "you gain X life for 1 point of fury spent" (which is incredible for a melee character) and that you can gain extra fury with the Weapons Master passive.
  • #13
    @Nastai
    I probably should have said that you could dual-wield mighty weapons.

    @WishedHeHadBeta
    If you did bother reading through the thread. He said, this build would only be valid if fury gained above the limit would count towards thrive on chaos which also applied to my build.
    If they have passives that increases damage at fury cap, then I hope fury beyond the cap can be utilized for rune options such as thrive on chaos.
    This is what we hope and we made a build upon that idea.

    Bash is indeed higher fury per hit but Frenzy shines with battle rage.

    I did see someone else recommending weapon throw, richochet and no escape before. Love the idea. Hate the skill. Who knows, might get used to it once I try it.

    @DenkaSaeba25
    That is what I recall as well. The bad part with having a build without a fury spender. However, my hardcore builds beyond nightmare got threatening shout.
    Black Swordsman
  • #14
    Quote from DenkaSaeba25

    Quote from Tenhi

    Edit2: Oh and I think Mighty Weapon can spawn with +Fury hit... so I guess that makes them even better for fury gain :F


    I think that the mighty weapon property was something like "you gain X life for 1 point of fury spent" (which is incredible for a melee character) and that you can gain extra fury with the Weapons Master passive.


    Hrm... I thought I saw a weapon with "+Fury on hit" once... but maybe I'm getting old *shrug*
  • #15
    Quote from Tenhi

    1) I dunno if the Barbs Furygens are the same as the Monks Spiritgens... but if they are the same then the diffrent Furygens have diffrent Attack Speed modifier (for the monk: http://us.battle.net...opic/3811455189). If that is true for the Furygens... my guess would be that Frenzy is way faster than Bash... and that is without counting the Frenzy Attackspeed Buff. So if Bash is better than Frenzy depends on things we dont know for sure. But I guess its hard to come close to Bashs Furygen... 10 Spirit per attack is insane

    2) War Cry is 42 Fury every 30sec. Ground Stomp is 31 Fury every 15sec... thus 62 Fury over 30sec. So Ground Stomp is a better Skill for pure Furygain. Also if you already use No Escape why not use Ancient Spear? Even if you dont count the fact that you already have No Escape... Ancient Spear gives you (with a golden rune...) 29 Fury every 10sec... or 87 Fury over 30sec. Thats an insane amouns of fury... then again I guess all this Throw/Ancient Spear stuff isnt to anybodys liking...

    Edit: Somethink like this? http://us.battle.net...WYhP!ZfY!bbYbZb


    ah very true. good idea! id replace war cry with ancient spear since its CD can be reset by my passive, cant believe i missed that lol. bash was because it generates 10 fury and actually 13 fury per hit with a lvl 7 rune and two hits with it will give u another second of WOTB and fury for 2 more weapon throws.

    id go with my build still except the change u suggested because i dont want overpower it gives LESS crit for LESS time AND it has a cooldown, relying on it to crit to reset is too risky and revenge will activate alot because regardless of being a ranged barb your still going to get jumped especially in later difficulties.



    Hrm... I thought I saw a weapon with "+Fury on hit" once... but maybe I'm getting old *shrug*


    the +fury on hit is the passive for the barb "weapon master". maybe you confused this with a possible affix?
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #16
    Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

    ah very true. good idea! id replace war cry with ancient spear since its CD can be reset by my passive, cant believe i missed that lol. bash was because it generates 10 fury and actually 13 fury per hit with a lvl 7 rune and two hits with it will give u another second of WOTB and fury for 2 more weapon throws.

    id go with my build still except the change u suggested because i dont want overpower it gives LESS crit for LESS time AND it has a cooldown, relying on it to crit to reset is too risky and revenge will activate alot because regardless of being a ranged barb your still going to get jumped especially in later difficulties.



    Hrm... I thought I saw a weapon with "+Fury on hit" once... but maybe I'm getting old *shrug*


    the +fury on hit is the passive for the barb "weapon master". maybe you confused this with a possible affix?


    Well Revenge vs. Overpower depends on diffrent things... like your critrate. And with the Throw Barb you are going for high crit thus you have the chance that Overpower resets its CD. Then again being hit by tons of Monsters helps with Revenge. But thats just a flavor thing... going with Revenge could be better... so I would change it back for now.

    Oh and dont forget the Templar... he gives 10% Furygain if you specc it^^
  • #17
    Quote from Tenhi

    Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

    ah very true. good idea! id replace war cry with ancient spear since its CD can be reset by my passive, cant believe i missed that lol. bash was because it generates 10 fury and actually 13 fury per hit with a lvl 7 rune and two hits with it will give u another second of WOTB and fury for 2 more weapon throws.

    id go with my build still except the change u suggested because i dont want overpower it gives LESS crit for LESS time AND it has a cooldown, relying on it to crit to reset is too risky and revenge will activate alot because regardless of being a ranged barb your still going to get jumped especially in later difficulties.



    Hrm... I thought I saw a weapon with "+Fury on hit" once... but maybe I'm getting old *shrug*


    the +fury on hit is the passive for the barb "weapon master". maybe you confused this with a possible affix?


    Well Revenge vs. Overpower depends on diffrent things... like your critrate. And with the Throw Barb you are going for high crit thus you have the chance that Overpower resets its CD. Then again being hit by tons of Monsters helps with Revenge. But thats just a flavor thing... going with Revenge could be better... so I would change it back for now.

    Oh and dont forget the Templar... he gives 10% Furygain if you specc it^^


    i think we.... stumbled onto something....... diabolical... O_O

    hay demons! hide yo kinds hide yo wife hide yo husben cuz we bout to be rapin erbody
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #18
    Quote from Tenhi

    Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

    ah very true. good idea! id replace war cry with ancient spear since its CD can be reset by my passive, cant believe i missed that lol. bash was because it generates 10 fury and actually 13 fury per hit with a lvl 7 rune and two hits with it will give u another second of WOTB and fury for 2 more weapon throws.

    id go with my build still except the change u suggested because i dont want overpower it gives LESS crit for LESS time AND it has a cooldown, relying on it to crit to reset is too risky and revenge will activate alot because regardless of being a ranged barb your still going to get jumped especially in later difficulties.



    Hrm... I thought I saw a weapon with "+Fury on hit" once... but maybe I'm getting old *shrug*


    the +fury on hit is the passive for the barb "weapon master". maybe you confused this with a possible affix?


    Well Revenge vs. Overpower depends on diffrent things... like your critrate. And with the Throw Barb you are going for high crit thus you have the chance that Overpower resets its CD. Then again being hit by tons of Monsters helps with Revenge. But thats just a flavor thing... going with Revenge could be better... so I would change it back for now.

    Oh and dont forget the Templar... he gives 10% Furygain if you specc it^^

    Well, if I had to choose, I would go for revenge since it gives you more survival as well.

    However, I don't feel there is a necessity to get a fury generator such as ancient spear.

    I might be wrong here, but if weapon throw count every crit as it ricochet as unique. You will have a chance to gain 20 fury per every target. With the build below you can accumulate 61% critical chance (r4 runes) if crit chance is additive. If the build doesn't require into the fray, I would rather use bloodshed since you will be critting all over the place.

    My axe thrower build. Main fury generator doesn't matter. I just like Frenzy most of 'em.

    Black Swordsman
  • #19
    Quote from Firehært

    Well, if I had to choose, I would go for revenge since it gives you more survival as well.

    However, I don't feel there is a necessity to get a fury generator such as ancient spear.

    I might be wrong here, but if weapon throw count every crit as it ricochet as unique. You will have a chance to gain 20 fury per every target. With the build below you can accumulate 61% critical chance (r4 runes) if crit chance is additive. If the build doesn't require into the fray, I would rather use bloodshed since you will be critting all over the place.

    My axe thrower build. Main fury generator doesn't matter. I just like Frenzy most of 'em.




    i wouldnt use both overpower and revenge because you have to get closer to mobs to use them both and only revenge heals so just revenge is ideal for this build because you dont have any other defensive skills so you'll want to remain at a distance from mobs the majority of the time

    also that extra 7 fury from lvl 7 golden runed battle rage really helps the whole "infinite WOTB" thing.

    i also thought about that, if an AOE spell counts all hits as a crit or none of them then as one that wouldnt make much sense so hypothetically if ricochet does count each one and you hit all 8 targets even with a low crit chance your guaranteed fury return every time. id still stack insane amounts of crit to guarantee fury return for when i only hit 2-3 targets. with the crit passive + crit dmg enchantment you'd do ~260% dmg each crit so the more crit the better for overall dmg. but a balance of attack and crit will be considered for best results of course
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #20
    Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

    Quote from Firehært

    Well, if I had to choose, I would go for revenge since it gives you more survival as well.

    However, I don't feel there is a necessity to get a fury generator such as ancient spear.

    I might be wrong here, but if weapon throw count every crit as it ricochet as unique. You will have a chance to gain 20 fury per every target. With the build below you can accumulate 61% critical chance (r4 runes) if crit chance is additive. If the build doesn't require into the fray, I would rather use bloodshed since you will be critting all over the place.

    My axe thrower build. Main fury generator doesn't matter. I just like Frenzy most of 'em.




    i wouldnt use both overpower and revenge because you have to get closer to mobs to use them both and only revenge heals so just revenge is ideal for this build because you dont have any other defensive skills so you'll want to remain at a distance from mobs the majority of the time

    also that extra 7 fury from lvl 7 golden runed battle rage really helps the whole "infinite WOTB" thing.

    i also thought about that, if an AOE spell counts all hits as a crit or none of them then as one that wouldnt make much sense so hypothetically if ricochet does count each one and you hit all 8 targets even with a low crit chance your guaranteed fury return every time. id still stack insane amounts of crit to guarantee fury return for when i only hit 2-3 targets. with the crit passive + crit dmg enchantment you'd do ~260% dmg each crit so the more crit the better for overall dmg. but a balance of attack and crit will be considered for best results of course

    Someone did say that the arcane orb counted the mobs as different targets. So some got critted and some didn't. This is where I base it on.

    I do not plan on staying range so I'll go with overpower and revenge.

    Like I said, if it is true that it counts every new target unique, I do not think you will need the increased fury from into the fray. However, I won't hesitate to change to it if I'm wrong.

    I will be going with survival and plain damage % increment stats on the gear since I do think the amount of critical chance I get from just the skills will be more than enough. Going more from gear would be overkill and I might as well get high on defense and vitality since it is lacking in the defensive part.
    Black Swordsman
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