If fury generation beyond 100% is counted towards extending WotB then it may be very possible to keep up constantly (assuming you always have something to hit). If fury generation beyond 100% doesn't count towards maintaining WotB then this will not work.
- Spam Frenzy until you get 5 stacks
- Activate WotB
- Activate Battle Rage every 30 seconds(can socket with golden rune if not generating enough fury to keep WotB up)
- Ground Stomp every 12 seconds to help generate more fury in order to maintain WotB
- Once all buffs are up and at maximum level (with full fury), hit Earthquake for massive damage output.
This rotation would really only work if the stack of Frenzy buffs remains up for a duration (rather than dropping as soon as you use something other than Frenzy).
You would have a constant
+ 120% attack speed
+ 135% damage (115% if fury isn't 100%)
+ 19% critical chance (+ additional 16% if Overpower is used every 4.5 seconds)
+ 50% critical damage
If everything were to work as I imagine it, this would likely be the highest steady dps output from a Barbarian (based on what I've experimented with so far).
Worth a shot...
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
I see what you're saying about Frenzy only increasing the attack speed of that ability, but at the same time I don't plan on using anything else really. Initially I build the build around just spamming Frenzy the whole time. Ground Stomp is something to fall back on if needed. Overpower I just put in there to fill a slot, I didn't look too much into it.
Furious Charge is too situational for the build, and wouldn't always generate enough fury as is needed. Ground Stomp is a better option because you can hit it every 12s and it's always a guaranteed 31 fury.
@Fireheart - I'm not sure how you make the argument that my build doesn't generate fury. Swinging 120% faster (likely using 1h weps) I would gain 3 fury/swing (at a rate of who knows how fast -- there will likely be a hard cap on swing speed) + an additional 31 every 12 seconds. On top of this I'm gaining 1 fury constantly, and never degenerating it.
If this build is unable to maintain WotB then the entire build is scrapped. Just an interesting idea. We'll see what we can do.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
I see what you're saying about Frenzy only increasing the attack speed of that ability, but at the same time I don't plan on using anything else really. Initially I build the build around just spamming Frenzy the whole time. Ground Stomp is something to fall back on if needed. Overpower I just put in there to fill a slot, I didn't look too much into it.
Furious Charge is too situational for the build, and wouldn't always generate enough fury as is needed. Ground Stomp is a better option because you can hit it every 12s and it's always a guaranteed 31 fury.
@Fireheart - I'm not sure how you make the argument that my build doesn't generate fury. Swinging 120% faster (likely using 1h weps) I would gain 3 fury/swing (at a rate of who knows how fast -- there will likely be a hard cap on swing speed) + an additional 31 every 12 seconds. On top of this I'm gaining 1 fury constantly, and never degenerating it.
If this build is unable to maintain WotB then the entire build is scrapped. Just an interesting idea. We'll see what we can do.
It's not what I said. I just think you have too low fury generation to keep it up as long as you want it. I might be wrong. I did however suggest another build that has higher fury generation.
Fury don't degenerate that fast and 30 fury per minute is just way too low for me to even consider. That's why I suggested weapon master with mighty weapons, another fury gain per hit.
I do hope that these builds work though. I would want to keep Wrath of the Berserker for at least +45 seconds. Rank 7 rune should make it possible to keep it for quite long.
Ah, I see what you meant. You may be right, it's just a theory. It would be really cool to see it work out though (plus I expect there will be items to give +fury regen, so that will be helpful).
I personally think that dual wielding 1h weapons might be better than having +1 fury per hit with mighty weapons. If you swing 3 times in 3 seconds (hitting an enemy 3 times) you generate 12 fury (3x3 for Frenzy, and +3 for each hit with your passive). If I swing 4 times in 3 seconds (assuming 1h will swing faster than mighty weapons) I will generate 12 fury as well, but will free up the passive. There is also a chance that the difference in swing speed may be greater than that, so I may generate even more fury per second. On the other hand, there is also the chance that the swing speed isn't that different, and as a result your build would generate more fury per second (through attacking).
We really can only speculate so much while the game is still in development. Once the game goes live, the true testing will begin. But I do enjoy some good theorycrafting!
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
despite other flaws your missing the 1 absolute necessary skill to actually even attempt a never ending WOTB. a fury SPENDER. if your at max fury all the fury ur generating isnt counting in your pool what makes you think it will count towards the WOTB rune effect? its highly doubtful that would even work. your absolute best bet for a never ending WOTB is something more like this:
bash has the highest fury regen per hit by far so you'd use that and war cry to max fury, pop WOTB and revenge when hit then throw like a mad man, your spending fury and getting tons of it per crit and if you run out you can always alternate bash - WT - bash - WT when it doesnt crit, and when it does you gain 27 (lvl 7 golden rune on battle rage) fury to throw 2.7 ( :P) more times and another full second of WOTB. with revenge (lvl 7 rune) up you'll have over 50% chance to crit not conting ANY precision so at least around 55%+ crit so every other throw will give you 27 fury, ala 1 more second. with increased attack speed from WOTB, a fast weapon and stacking insane amounts of precision you could possibly have WOTB up forever esp if you could get up to like 65%+ crit
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
1) I dunno if the Barbs Furygens are the same as the Monks Spiritgens... but if they are the same then the diffrent Furygens have diffrent Attack Speed modifier (for the monk: http://us.battle.net...opic/3811455189). If that is true for the Furygens... my guess would be that Frenzy is way faster than Bash... and that is without counting the Frenzy Attackspeed Buff. So if Bash is better than Frenzy depends on things we dont know for sure. But I guess its hard to come close to Bashs Furygen... 10 Spirit per attack is insane <_< you would need more than 3 attacks to get the same amount of fury with Frenzy...
2) War Cry is 42 Fury every 30sec. Ground Stomp is 31 Fury every 15sec... thus 62 Fury over 30sec. So Ground Stomp is a better Skill for pure Furygain. Also if you already use No Escape why not use Ancient Spear? Even if you dont count the fact that you already have No Escape... Ancient Spear gives you (with a golden rune...) 29 Fury every 10sec... or 87 Fury over 30sec. Thats an insane amouns of fury... then again I guess all this Throw/Ancient Spear stuff isnt to anybodys liking...
ah very true. good idea! id replace war cry with ancient spear since its CD can be reset by my passive, cant believe i missed that lol. bash was because it generates 10 fury and actually 13 fury per hit with a lvl 7 rune and two hits with it will give u another second of WOTB and fury for 2 more weapon throws.
id go with my build still except the change u suggested because i dont want overpower it gives LESS crit for LESS time AND it has a cooldown, relying on it to crit to reset is too risky and revenge will activate alot because regardless of being a ranged barb your still going to get jumped especially in later difficulties.
Hrm... I thought I saw a weapon with "+Fury on hit" once... but maybe I'm getting old *shrug*
the +fury on hit is the passive for the barb "weapon master". maybe you confused this with a possible affix?
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
ah very true. good idea! id replace war cry with ancient spear since its CD can be reset by my passive, cant believe i missed that lol. bash was because it generates 10 fury and actually 13 fury per hit with a lvl 7 rune and two hits with it will give u another second of WOTB and fury for 2 more weapon throws.
id go with my build still except the change u suggested because i dont want overpower it gives LESS crit for LESS time AND it has a cooldown, relying on it to crit to reset is too risky and revenge will activate alot because regardless of being a ranged barb your still going to get jumped especially in later difficulties.
Hrm... I thought I saw a weapon with "+Fury on hit" once... but maybe I'm getting old *shrug*
the +fury on hit is the passive for the barb "weapon master". maybe you confused this with a possible affix?
Well Revenge vs. Overpower depends on diffrent things... like your critrate. And with the Throw Barb you are going for high crit thus you have the chance that Overpower resets its CD. Then again being hit by tons of Monsters helps with Revenge. But thats just a flavor thing... going with Revenge could be better... so I would change it back for now.
Oh and dont forget the Templar... he gives 10% Furygain if you specc it^^
i think we.... stumbled onto something....... diabolical...
hay demons! hide yo kinds hide yo wife hide yo husben cuz we bout to be rapin erbody
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Well, if I had to choose, I would go for revenge since it gives you more survival as well.
However, I don't feel there is a necessity to get a fury generator such as ancient spear.
I might be wrong here, but if weapon throw count every crit as it ricochet as unique. You will have a chance to gain 20 fury per every target. With the build below you can accumulate 61% critical chance (r4 runes) if crit chance is additive. If the build doesn't require into the fray, I would rather use bloodshed since you will be critting all over the place.
My axe thrower build. Main fury generator doesn't matter. I just like Frenzy most of 'em.
i wouldnt use both overpower and revenge because you have to get closer to mobs to use them both and only revenge heals so just revenge is ideal for this build because you dont have any other defensive skills so you'll want to remain at a distance from mobs the majority of the time
also that extra 7 fury from lvl 7 golden runed battle rage really helps the whole "infinite WOTB" thing.
i also thought about that, if an AOE spell counts all hits as a crit or none of them then as one that wouldnt make much sense so hypothetically if ricochet does count each one and you hit all 8 targets even with a low crit chance your guaranteed fury return every time. id still stack insane amounts of crit to guarantee fury return for when i only hit 2-3 targets. with the crit passive + crit dmg enchantment you'd do ~260% dmg each crit so the more crit the better for overall dmg. but a balance of attack and crit will be considered for best results of course
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I don`t it`s very logical to think you can `gain` fury over a maximum amount. You will need a high cost fury spender to keep the fury down so you can keep ``gaining`` it
This is probably a better bet once you get into higher difficulties:
This is my build for perma WotB, I fell like this is more of a PvP build wit ancient spear, but it might work in PvE too. Basically the idea is to hit all 3 situational cds and pray u keep critting Overpower, Ancient Spear and Weapon Throw for massive fury gain. Bash for when u run out of other stuff because i think keeping 5 stacks of frenzy while popping all your other spells should be pretty much impossible.
It seems that now our problems are solved, since Wrath of the Berserker has no CD.
Wrath of the Berserker: Cost: 50 Fury / Cooldown: 120 seconds / Enter a berserker rage which raises several attributes for 15 seconds. / Critical Hit: 10% / Attack Speed: 45% / Dodge Chance: 20% / Movement Speed: 20%
Wow
Saw that one as well. I really hope it stays like this.
I think it won't stay without CD, but i hope in a 30 sec CD for it.
ya a lot of those giant heal numbers and stuff like that will change. because its 100x too OP without a CD because you can easily get enough fury to re pop it every 15 seconds no matter your build
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
High damage and high attack speed what more do you need? The new furious charge crimson runed is nice too, I'd like to see what it could while buffed by battle rage, WotB, Brawler.and max frenzy. There is nothing fancy to playing this build at all.
It's not OP without cooldown. It costs 50 fury which is a lot so you have a choice cast a WotB or nearly 2 seismic slams, etc. For that fury you can do a lot of damage or just cast a WotB. I think it's quite well balanced now and much better than with cooldown.
the buffs from WoTB on no CD is way too powerful unless they double the fury cost. if you cant see it then your blind.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#P!!c - 45% dodge, 45% attack speed, 10% crit, 20% run speed. with no CD that you can constantly keep up with any build. ya thats not OP at all compared to the other clases. <_<
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
But you are sacrificing half of your max fury each time you pop WotB, which could be used for other skills. It's A LOT OF fury for a single 15sec skill.
50 fury really isnt that much. you can gain that in 2 seconds with the bigger fury generators. furious charge golden alone could get you 50 fury if you pass through enough enemies. or 5 quick hits with bash golden. or you almost get 50 fury with war cry golden.
so no its not a lot of fury for such an insane boost in all stats w/ no CD
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Usually you are not surrounded with enemies. Imagine usual situation: you are running without any fury, you see monsters and then you need to generate 50 fury just to use WotB, then cast it and again generate additional fury to cast other fury spenders. I mean it's still a lot of fury because there are not always enough monsters to generate that much fury. War cry has 30sec cooldown, and you need to select "bad" runestone to get more fury per use (you could instead select life runestone). Charge again has a cooldown and it needs to hit a lot of monsters to generate a lot of fury. Bash, yeah, generates a lot of fury, but it is shitty attack compared to something like cleave.
I mean all of your examples are with using fury runestones into skills to get more fury to use WotB, so you sacrifice a lot of damage and other stats just to get that fury to use WotB. Yes, WotB is very strong, but instead of this you could use war cry with alabaster to gain extra life + life regen, you could use cleave with damage rune, and charge with life leach rune or damage rune. It's all about build diversity.
your missing the fact that constantly having WOTB up is far far greater then a couple runestones on a couple skills. lol
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Maybe, but maybe not, you don't know for sure yet.
lol... no i know 100%. i showed you the stats. there insanely high to have up constantly no other class has anything close to that. ive read every single skill and rune effect for every class and WoTB w/ no CD is the most insanely OP by light years. so it will certainly be nerfed or a CD added
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
WishedHeHadBeta tends to ignore what has been said in the thread already.
Since some of us already mentioned before that the buff will probably be nerfed a bit and the dodge rune should/will get changed if they keep it without a cooldown.
obviously HE is the one who isnt reading the thread and thats why i had to re-explain it. DER
Also, I agree with Klbavkalash. Go for bad runes just to bolster Wrath of the Berserker is just silly when it isn't necessary.
did i say it was necessary at all? anywhere? no, he was questioning that 50 fury was "so much fury" and i just gave quick off the top of my head examples of how you can literally instantly get 50 fury, and in general its not hard to achieve.
Bash with golden? Cleave and Frenzy are just so much better. The only reason Furious Charge's Stamina was good was because it had the ability of fuel Thrive on Chaos the most.
By that logic, even 100 fury shouldn't be hard to manage. We could just go with golden war cry and furious charge's stamina.
again, just an off my head example didnt say you had to go with it at all.
You should remember that they have been testing the current patch for a bit already. The recent changes gave us a peek into the current problem with the barbarian. Survival issues and low damage. The only other melee class got bizarre healing and insane dodge. Making Wrath of the Berserker more accessible and constant might be needed for inferno.
i think you are reaching. pretty sure you tried this logic before. blizz will not ever make 1 specific skill *mandatory* for decent survival or decent anything with any of the classes. there is no absolutely required skill on any of the classes and WoTB will be no exception. the skills will change at least another 4 times before release even hits anyways so if there is a skill that appears to be that way, it will for sure be changed
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I disagree, Thrive on Chaos is only good if there will be a cd on the skill. If not, then its useless, 50 Rage buys you 15 seconds, why would you want 26 Rage to buy you 1 second? Spamming Bash, Cleave of Frenzy would likely add 3-4 seconds to the total duration, I'd rather take extra dodge.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fhPYei!XZS!ZZbZbb
If fury generation beyond 100% is counted towards extending WotB then it may be very possible to keep up constantly (assuming you always have something to hit). If fury generation beyond 100% doesn't count towards maintaining WotB then this will not work.
- Spam Frenzy until you get 5 stacks
- Activate WotB
- Activate Battle Rage every 30 seconds(can socket with golden rune if not generating enough fury to keep WotB up)
- Ground Stomp every 12 seconds to help generate more fury in order to maintain WotB
- Once all buffs are up and at maximum level (with full fury), hit Earthquake for massive damage output.
This rotation would really only work if the stack of Frenzy buffs remains up for a duration (rather than dropping as soon as you use something other than Frenzy).
You would have a constant
+ 120% attack speed
+ 135% damage (115% if fury isn't 100%)
+ 19% critical chance (+ additional 16% if Overpower is used every 4.5 seconds)
+ 50% critical damage
If everything were to work as I imagine it, this would likely be the highest steady dps output from a Barbarian (based on what I've experimented with so far).
Worth a shot...
Furious Charge is too situational for the build, and wouldn't always generate enough fury as is needed. Ground Stomp is a better option because you can hit it every 12s and it's always a guaranteed 31 fury.
@Fireheart - I'm not sure how you make the argument that my build doesn't generate fury. Swinging 120% faster (likely using 1h weps) I would gain 3 fury/swing (at a rate of who knows how fast -- there will likely be a hard cap on swing speed) + an additional 31 every 12 seconds. On top of this I'm gaining 1 fury constantly, and never degenerating it.
If this build is unable to maintain WotB then the entire build is scrapped. Just an interesting idea. We'll see what we can do.
Ah, I see what you meant. You may be right, it's just a theory. It would be really cool to see it work out though (plus I expect there will be items to give +fury regen, so that will be helpful).
I personally think that dual wielding 1h weapons might be better than having +1 fury per hit with mighty weapons. If you swing 3 times in 3 seconds (hitting an enemy 3 times) you generate 12 fury (3x3 for Frenzy, and +3 for each hit with your passive). If I swing 4 times in 3 seconds (assuming 1h will swing faster than mighty weapons) I will generate 12 fury as well, but will free up the passive. There is also a chance that the difference in swing speed may be greater than that, so I may generate even more fury per second. On the other hand, there is also the chance that the swing speed isn't that different, and as a result your build would generate more fury per second (through attacking).
We really can only speculate so much while the game is still in development. Once the game goes live, the true testing will begin. But I do enjoy some good theorycrafting!
http://us.battle.net...PaUW!fZY!bbbbaY
bash has the highest fury regen per hit by far so you'd use that and war cry to max fury, pop WOTB and revenge when hit then throw like a mad man, your spending fury and getting tons of it per crit and if you run out you can always alternate bash - WT - bash - WT when it doesnt crit, and when it does you gain 27 (lvl 7 golden rune on battle rage) fury to throw 2.7 ( :P) more times and another full second of WOTB. with revenge (lvl 7 rune) up you'll have over 50% chance to crit not conting ANY precision so at least around 55%+ crit so every other throw will give you 27 fury, ala 1 more second. with increased attack speed from WOTB, a fast weapon and stacking insane amounts of precision you could possibly have WOTB up forever esp if you could get up to like 65%+ crit
ah very true. good idea! id replace war cry with ancient spear since its CD can be reset by my passive, cant believe i missed that lol. bash was because it generates 10 fury and actually 13 fury per hit with a lvl 7 rune and two hits with it will give u another second of WOTB and fury for 2 more weapon throws.
id go with my build still except the change u suggested because i dont want overpower it gives LESS crit for LESS time AND it has a cooldown, relying on it to crit to reset is too risky and revenge will activate alot because regardless of being a ranged barb your still going to get jumped especially in later difficulties.
the +fury on hit is the passive for the barb "weapon master". maybe you confused this with a possible affix?
i think we.... stumbled onto something....... diabolical...
hay demons! hide yo kinds hide yo wife hide yo husben cuz we bout to be rapin erbody
i wouldnt use both overpower and revenge because you have to get closer to mobs to use them both and only revenge heals so just revenge is ideal for this build because you dont have any other defensive skills so you'll want to remain at a distance from mobs the majority of the time
also that extra 7 fury from lvl 7 golden runed battle rage really helps the whole "infinite WOTB" thing.
i also thought about that, if an AOE spell counts all hits as a crit or none of them then as one that wouldnt make much sense so hypothetically if ricochet does count each one and you hit all 8 targets even with a low crit chance your guaranteed fury return every time. id still stack insane amounts of crit to guarantee fury return for when i only hit 2-3 targets. with the crit passive + crit dmg enchantment you'd do ~260% dmg each crit so the more crit the better for overall dmg. but a balance of attack and crit will be considered for best results of course
I don`t it`s very logical to think you can `gain` fury over a maximum amount. You will need a high cost fury spender to keep the fury down so you can keep ``gaining`` it
This is probably a better bet once you get into higher difficulties:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fgPYUT!eZS!Zabbab
This is my build for perma WotB, I fell like this is more of a PvP build wit ancient spear, but it might work in PvE too. Basically the idea is to hit all 3 situational cds and pray u keep critting Overpower, Ancient Spear and Weapon Throw for massive fury gain. Bash for when u run out of other stuff because i think keeping 5 stacks of frenzy while popping all your other spells should be pretty much impossible.
maybe swap out revenge for battle rage for perma battle rage too...
http://us.battle.net...RhYP!YWf!bZbZYb
also if its PVP probably switch bash and weapon throw to cause CC instead of more damage and fury...
*Also switch weapon master for ruthless depending on what "1fury per hit" means...
ya a lot of those giant heal numbers and stuff like that will change. because its 100x too OP without a CD because you can easily get enough fury to re pop it every 15 seconds no matter your build
High damage and high attack speed what more do you need? The new furious charge crimson runed is nice too, I'd like to see what it could while buffed by battle rage, WotB, Brawler.and max frenzy. There is nothing fancy to playing this build at all.
Those are my thoughts exactly. I expect many of the longer buffs to get nerfed.
the buffs from WoTB on no CD is way too powerful unless they double the fury cost. if you cant see it then your blind.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#P!!c - 45% dodge, 45% attack speed, 10% crit, 20% run speed. with no CD that you can constantly keep up with any build. ya thats not OP at all compared to the other clases. <_<
50 fury really isnt that much. you can gain that in 2 seconds with the bigger fury generators. furious charge golden alone could get you 50 fury if you pass through enough enemies. or 5 quick hits with bash golden. or you almost get 50 fury with war cry golden.
so no its not a lot of fury for such an insane boost in all stats w/ no CD
your missing the fact that constantly having WOTB up is far far greater then a couple runestones on a couple skills. lol
lol... no i know 100%. i showed you the stats. there insanely high to have up constantly no other class has anything close to that. ive read every single skill and rune effect for every class and WoTB w/ no CD is the most insanely OP by light years. so it will certainly be nerfed or a CD added
obviously HE is the one who isnt reading the thread and thats why i had to re-explain it. DER
did i say it was necessary at all? anywhere? no, he was questioning that 50 fury was "so much fury" and i just gave quick off the top of my head examples of how you can literally instantly get 50 fury, and in general its not hard to achieve.
again, just an off my head example didnt say you had to go with it at all.
i think you are reaching. pretty sure you tried this logic before. blizz will not ever make 1 specific skill *mandatory* for decent survival or decent anything with any of the classes. there is no absolutely required skill on any of the classes and WoTB will be no exception. the skills will change at least another 4 times before release even hits anyways so if there is a skill that appears to be that way, it will for sure be changed