You say games like this have been done before, when honestly they really haven't. Sure there have been hack and slash games for the past 20 years, but none have been even half as flexible as Diablo 3 is, where you can literally play any spec and change base stats as you want without having to re-roll a character. Furthermore, other games in this genre still to this day have the exact same issue. Path of Exile is just as bad, if not worse, because of how their ladder system works where you're not just forced to play a certain spec but in most cases a certain class just to obtain a decent ranking. So I'm sorry but this isn't as simple as you claim it to be.
Yes they have been done before, not the exact same game no. And trying something new??? Sure I get it... However you can not convince me that it would be super hard to make viable aoe builds single target builds etc.... I can often 99% of the time see a set item bonus or a buff change and just from playing the game determine, yea that is not going to be viable or work... And I am usually right. Again I know balance is hard to make perfect but like 10-20 GR level difference in builds??? Come on man, and I know 2.1 is new and they aim to balance and I hope they do. But if the game was so hard to balance like you say it is, then vanilla would not have been adjusted so easily to balance the game out. Like hyperion said vanilla up to 1.0.8 had more viable build options than now.
You say games like this have been done before, when honestly they really haven't. Sure there have been hack and slash games for the past 20 years, but none have been even half as flexible as Diablo 3 is, where you can literally play any spec and change base stats as you want without having to re-roll a character. Furthermore, other games in this genre still to this day have the exact same issue. Path of Exile is just as bad, if not worse, because of how their ladder system works where you're not just forced to play a certain spec but in most cases a certain class just to obtain a decent ranking. So I'm sorry but this isn't as simple as you claim it to be.
Yes they have been done before, not the exact same game no. And trying something new??? Sure I get it... However you can not convince me that it would be super hard to make viable aoe builds single target builds etc.... I can often 99% of the time see a set item bonus or a buff change and just from playing the game determine, yea that is not going to be viable or work... And I am usually right. Again I know balance is hard to make perfect but like 10-20 GR level difference in builds??? Come on man, and I know 2.1 is new and they aim to balance and I hope they do. But if the game was so hard to balance like you say it is, then vanilla would not have been adjusted so easily to balance the game out. Like hyperion said vanilla up to 1.0.8 had more viable build options than now.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just that you're seriously overestimating how easy it would be. You're not considering what changes you suggest would do to the game when that's all Blizzard does when they develop new ideas or try to balance the game. They purposely take their time making sure it wouldn't be overpowered or effect other aspects of the game before make such "easy" changes.
Vanilla shouldn't be a part of this discussion because of the gear changes made in 2.0. Before that everything was viable because we didn't have elemental damage and specific affixes for every single ability a class has. That's ridiculous to even compare a game which has practically nothing but stats on gear to a game that has so many affixes for every ability. Yes vanilla was more balanced, because we had less options in terms of gear customization.
They did this to themselves a bit in not testing Seasons long enough on the PTR, which is the only way to really recognize these sort of issues. They focused more on testing the development aspects of Seasons instead of balancing the game around Seasons. I have a strong feeling this will be rectified come Season 2.
To reiterate though, viable does not = GRift optimal. Viable means you can play the game with a build and be successful in it. GRifts should NOT be a part of viability discussion because at the higher levels they're the type of optimal gameplay that the majority of the player base won't ever touch and are currently an extremely limited version of playing the game. Yes, a difference in 10 or so GRift levels for builds should be worked upon, but that doesn't make those builds non-viable, they're simply non-viable for GRifts and are perfectly viable for the remainder of the game. You have to look at the game as a whole, not just at GRift ladders.
At least intelligent people will see how stupid your comment is
I'm out of here, cba to feed the troll, either something is wrong with this guy, or he's one of the top tier assholes on the internet.
No actually he is a good guy, just tired of people and the stupid shit they say, and trash talking for no good reason.
Gotta love people who act like assholes, then get their friends to tell them they aren't assholes. News Flash: If you need someone to say your a "good guy" and your "tired of people's shit", your probably an asshole.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just that you're seriously overestimating how easy it would be. You're not considering what changes you suggest would do to the game when that's all Blizzard does when they develop new ideas or try to balance the game. They purposely take their time making sure it wouldn't be overpowered or effect other aspects of the game before make such "easy" changes.
Vanilla shouldn't be a part of this discussion because of the gear changes made in 2.0. Before that everything was viable because we didn't have elemental damage and specific affixes for every single ability a class has. That's ridiculous to even compare a game which has practically nothing but stats on gear to a game that has so many affixes for every ability. Yes vanilla was more balanced, because we had less options in terms of gear customization.
They did this to themselves a bit in not testing Seasons long enough on the PTR, which is the only way to really recognize these sort of issues. They focused more on testing the development aspects of Seasons instead of balancing the game around Seasons. I have a strong feeling this will be rectified come Season 2.
To reiterate though, viable does not = GRift optimal. Viable means you can play the game with a build and be successful in it. GRifts should NOT be a part of viability discussion because at the higher levels they're the type of optimal gameplay that the majority of the player base won't ever touch and are currently an extremely limited version of playing the game. Yes, a difference in 10 or so GRift levels for builds should be worked upon, but that doesn't make those builds non-viable, they're simply non-viable for GRifts and are perfectly viable for the remainder of the game. You have to look at the game as a whole, not just at GRift ladders.
The point of the game is to level gems etc = doing GR, so more viable builds would be nice. Good luck leveling gems with a pet WD etc. I mean the point of the game is to do the best you can, and that involves GR.. I doubt most people play the game to just do normal T6.
At least intelligent people will see how stupid your comment is
I'm out of here, cba to feed the troll, either something is wrong with this guy, or he's one of the top tier assholes on the internet.
No actually he is a good guy, just tired of people and the stupid shit they say, and trash talking for no good reason.
Gotta love people who act like assholes, then get their friends to tell them they aren't assholes. News Flash: If you need someone to say your a "good guy" and your "tired of people's shit", your probably an asshole.
Do you know Hyperion personally? If not then shut up, you can not make a judgement based off of a post on a person. Reality is anyone can be kind or a asshole, you derp.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just that you're seriously overestimating how easy it would be. You're not considering what changes you suggest would do to the game when that's all Blizzard does when they develop new ideas or try to balance the game. They purposely take their time making sure it wouldn't be overpowered or effect other aspects of the game before make such "easy" changes.
Vanilla shouldn't be a part of this discussion because of the gear changes made in 2.0. Before that everything was viable because we didn't have elemental damage and specific affixes for every single ability a class has. That's ridiculous to even compare a game which has practically nothing but stats on gear to a game that has so many affixes for every ability. Yes vanilla was more balanced, because we had less options in terms of gear customization.
They did this to themselves a bit in not testing Seasons long enough on the PTR, which is the only way to really recognize these sort of issues. They focused more on testing the development aspects of Seasons instead of balancing the game around Seasons. I have a strong feeling this will be rectified come Season 2.
To reiterate though, viable does not = GRift optimal. Viable means you can play the game with a build and be successful in it. GRifts should NOT be a part of viability discussion because at the higher levels they're the type of optimal gameplay that the majority of the player base won't ever touch and are currently an extremely limited version of playing the game. Yes, a difference in 10 or so GRift levels for builds should be worked upon, but that doesn't make those builds non-viable, they're simply non-viable for GRifts and are perfectly viable for the remainder of the game. You have to look at the game as a whole, not just at GRift ladders.
The point of the game is to level gems etc = doing GR, so more viable builds would be nice. Good luck leveling gems with a pet WD etc. I mean the point of the game is to do the best you can, and that involves GR.. I doubt most people play the game to just do normal T6.
You're missing the point. GRifts are one aspect of the game and they're actually the climactic part of the game that requires the most optimal gameplay to progress. The point of the game is to enjoy it by progressing. You can't solely focus on the epitome of progression when considering gameplay balance, as that will always have balance at it's most extreme point.
You'd have a point if GRifts were the only thing people do at end game, when the only reasons people do GRifts is to acquire legendary gems, to level legendary gems, or to progress on the leader boards. There's far more to do than GRifts so they shouldn't be the only focus here.
At least intelligent people will see how stupid your comment is
I'm out of here, cba to feed the troll, either something is wrong with this guy, or he's one of the top tier assholes on the internet.
No actually he is a good guy, just tired of people and the stupid shit they say, and trash talking for no good reason.
Gotta love people who act like assholes, then get their friends to tell them they aren't assholes. News Flash: If you need someone to say your a "good guy" and your "tired of people's shit", your probably an asshole.
Do you know Hyperion personally? If not then shut up, you can not make a judgement based off of a post on a person. Reality is anyone can be kind or a asshole, you derp.
I'm out of here, cba to feed the troll, either something is wrong with this guy, or he's one of the top tier assholes on the internet.
No actually he is a good guy, just tired of people and the stupid shit they say, and trash talking for no good reason.
Gotta love people who act like assholes, then get their friends to tell them they aren't assholes. News Flash: If you need someone to say your a "good guy" and your "tired of people's shit", your probably an asshole.
Do you know Hyperion personally? If not then shut up, you can not make a judgement based off of a post on a person. Reality is anyone can be kind or a asshole, you derp.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just that you're seriously overestimating how easy it would be. You're not considering what changes you suggest would do to the game when that's all Blizzard does when they develop new ideas or try to balance the game. They purposely take their time making sure it wouldn't be overpowered or effect other aspects of the game before make such "easy" changes.
Vanilla shouldn't be a part of this discussion because of the gear changes made in 2.0. Before that everything was viable because we didn't have elemental damage and specific affixes for every single ability a class has. That's ridiculous to even compare a game which has practically nothing but stats on gear to a game that has so many affixes for every ability. Yes vanilla was more balanced, because we had less options in terms of gear customization.
They did this to themselves a bit in not testing Seasons long enough on the PTR, which is the only way to really recognize these sort of issues. They focused more on testing the development aspects of Seasons instead of balancing the game around Seasons. I have a strong feeling this will be rectified come Season 2.
To reiterate though, viable does not = GRift optimal. Viable means you can play the game with a build and be successful in it. GRifts should NOT be a part of viability discussion because at the higher levels they're the type of optimal gameplay that the majority of the player base won't ever touch and are currently an extremely limited version of playing the game. Yes, a difference in 10 or so GRift levels for builds should be worked upon, but that doesn't make those builds non-viable, they're simply non-viable for GRifts and are perfectly viable for the remainder of the game. You have to look at the game as a whole, not just at GRift ladders.
The point of the game is to level gems etc = doing GR, so more viable builds would be nice. Good luck leveling gems with a pet WD etc. I mean the point of the game is to do the best you can, and that involves GR.. I doubt most people play the game to just do normal T6.
You're missing the point. GRifts are one aspect of the game and they're actually the climactic part of the game that requires the most optimal gameplay to progress. The point of the game is to enjoy it by progressing. You can't solely focus on the epitome of progression when considering gameplay balance, as that will always have balance at it's most extreme point.
You'd have a point if GRifts were the only thing people do at end game, when the only reasons people do GRifts is to acquire legendary gems, to level legendary gems, or to progress on the leader boards. There's far more to do than GRifts so they shouldn't be the only focus here.
Well, Grifts are the end game. Yes you are correct that Grifts are not the only thing that people do at end game, but it is at this moment the reason people are doing anything, Ubers, Rifts, gold farming, it is all done in order to progress so you can make it higher in Grifts. I dont think that people do normal T6 Rifts, Grifts, level up gems farm for better gear just to have GG gear to blast through normal T6. Everything about the end game is centered around Grifts.
Ok, so I'm pretty irritated at blizzard right now, and I posted this originally on the Bnet general forums and within 15 minutes the thread had been deleted and my account suspended for 7 days. They said " the previous post was removed due to the fact that it offered no constructive feedback which could help bring benefit to the game and/or the community." And in my opinion that is total BS, so I'll post here what I said because apparently Blizzard does not want people to hear it.
Blizzard needs to start implementing and fixing the many problems in this game very soon or they will lose many of their more experienced and loyal player base. The only reason that I am still playing this game is because of 1 friend (all the rest have already left) and because of the fact that I played Diablo and Diablo 2 and remember the way that Blizzard used to make games. If blizzard does not start to fix many of their issues this will no longer be enough of a reason for me and many other experienced players to continue playing this game.
I started playing D3V the day it was released and I did have a lot of fun, but there were many bugs and balance issues, this however was not a problem because I do understand that with a new game things like this take a bit of time to fix. Blizzard promised to balance things and release new content, well they did and things were still not balanced, the new content was lackluster and buggy, but thats still ok, its a newish game and blance takes time..... this has gone on since the release of D3V and me and many of the other top players are getting tired of this and are seriously considering quitting for good.
Patch 2.1 saw a lot of new content and new things to do, but once again there are SOOO many bugs and balance issues. The patch has gone on long enough for blizzard to know what needs to be fixed and to fix it. Yet they will not do this for quite a while (this is the way it has always been). For example, shortly after RoS came out, blizzard introduced a bug that caused the FS fetishes to replace the FA fetishes and thus caused the pet WD to not do well, well it took Blizzard till now to fix it, and now that they have blizzard has screwed up the pet health so much that Pet WDs cant even play in GRIfts. How is it that when there is a EXP exploit (like last week) blizzard can fix that overnight but something like this takes them months? Dont try to tell me that it "takes time" or that it is "difficult to implement" because I have done a lot of programming and I know exactly how easy and fast this is to fix!
Blizzard on countless occasions has promised us more build and gear diversity and yet in 2.1 there are less build and gear options then in 1.8! Seriously many of blizzards most loyal customers (Friends and I have played almost every blizzard game that has come out) are going to leave if blizzard does not start to follow through with what they promises. I have played from the release of D3V till now simply on the hopes that they will deliver what they promise, but this will not go on for much longer (especially after they banned my account because I posted this simply because they did not like it).
TLDR: Blizzard if you keep on promising us things and never delivering you will lose some of you best players and supporters.
Anyway, that is what I posted and it really pisses me off that it was removed and I had my account suspended. I have supported blizzard forever, I have been an active member on their forums supplying constructive feedback and support since D3 came out, and just because they do not like honesty they ban me??!?!??! Seriously??
Didn't bother to read all the flaming moe's around some of the post here. But in general I do agree on some point. First is Blizzard should slow a bit on there side on the Ban Hammer. But I agree with the fact that this post is not really constructive and by the reply i've read here It's not good for the community. I don't see a lot of "unbalenced" stuff or that much broken gameplay or mechanic to go on a rampage over Blizzard and say they're gonna lose me if they don't do this or that.
I saw the post about the problem with WD pets, my friend got one with lots of them on a season char and he die before they do lol.
And for the rest of the QQ's, when you talk dirty to a girl you'll probably end up with a bloody nose. That's the samething with Diablo. Knowing how and when to let go or shutting it as save me a good liter of blood in my life. (metaphor for the ban in case someone thinks otherwise)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The season is underway. Don't know if I'll make it through.
Ok, so I'm pretty irritated at blizzard right now, and I posted this originally on the Bnet general forums and within 15 minutes the thread had been deleted and my account suspended for 7 days. They said " the previous post was removed due to the fact that it offered no constructive feedback which could help bring benefit to the game and/or the community." And in my opinion that is total BS, so I'll post here what I said because apparently Blizzard does not want people to hear it.
Blizzard needs to start implementing and fixing the many problems in this game very soon or they will lose many of their more experienced and loyal player base. The only reason that I am still playing this game is because of 1 friend (all the rest have already left) and because of the fact that I played Diablo and Diablo 2 and remember the way that Blizzard used to make games. If blizzard does not start to fix many of their issues this will no longer be enough of a reason for me and many other experienced players to continue playing this game.
I started playing D3V the day it was released and I did have a lot of fun, but there were many bugs and balance issues, this however was not a problem because I do understand that with a new game things like this take a bit of time to fix. Blizzard promised to balance things and release new content, well they did and things were still not balanced, the new content was lackluster and buggy, but thats still ok, its a newish game and blance takes time..... this has gone on since the release of D3V and me and many of the other top players are getting tired of this and are seriously considering quitting for good.
Patch 2.1 saw a lot of new content and new things to do, but once again there are SOOO many bugs and balance issues. The patch has gone on long enough for blizzard to know what needs to be fixed and to fix it. Yet they will not do this for quite a while (this is the way it has always been). For example, shortly after RoS came out, blizzard introduced a bug that caused the FS fetishes to replace the FA fetishes and thus caused the pet WD to not do well, well it took Blizzard till now to fix it, and now that they have blizzard has screwed up the pet health so much that Pet WDs cant even play in GRIfts. How is it that when there is a EXP exploit (like last week) blizzard can fix that overnight but something like this takes them months? Dont try to tell me that it "takes time" or that it is "difficult to implement" because I have done a lot of programming and I know exactly how easy and fast this is to fix!
Blizzard on countless occasions has promised us more build and gear diversity and yet in 2.1 there are less build and gear options then in 1.8! Seriously many of blizzards most loyal customers (Friends and I have played almost every blizzard game that has come out) are going to leave if blizzard does not start to follow through with what they promises. I have played from the release of D3V till now simply on the hopes that they will deliver what they promise, but this will not go on for much longer (especially after they banned my account because I posted this simply because they did not like it).
TLDR: Blizzard if you keep on promising us things and never delivering you will lose some of you best players and supporters.
Anyway, that is what I posted and it really pisses me off that it was removed and I had my account suspended. I have supported blizzard forever, I have been an active member on their forums supplying constructive feedback and support since D3 came out, and just because they do not like honesty they ban me??!?!??! Seriously??
Didn't bother to read all the flaming moe's around some of the post here. But in general I do agree on some point. First is Blizzard should slow a bit on there side on the Ban Hammer. But I agree with the fact that this post is not really constructive and by the reply i've read here It's not good for the community. I don't see a lot of "unbalenced" stuff or that much broken gameplay or mechanic to go on a rampage over Blizzard and say they're gonna lose me if they don't do this or that.
I saw the post about the problem with WD pets, my friend got one with lots of them on a season char and he die before they do lol.
And for the rest of the QQ's, when you talk dirty to a girl you'll probably end up with a bloody nose. That's the samething with Diablo. Knowing how and when to let go or shutting it as save me a good liter of blood in my life. (metaphor for the ban in case someone thinks otherwise)
Thanks man for your reply, yes as I have said before this post is not what I posted on the blizzard forums, when I came here and posted this I was pretty pissed at blizzard for completely discouraging my post and banning my account. I was not hostile toward them I left many openings for debate and was overall friendly with them, but after they banned me it pretty much pissed me off.
But overall yes you are correct even though you disagree with me on certain areas you are not a jerk about it, so I appreciate your post.
Thanks man for your reply, yes as I have said before this post is not what I posted on the blizzard forums, when I came here and posted this I was pretty pissed at blizzard for completely discouraging my post and banning my account. I was not hostile toward them I left many openings for debate and was overall friendly with them, but after they banned me it pretty much pissed me off.
But overall yes you are correct even though you disagree with me on certain areas you are not a jerk about it, so I appreciate your post.
You should have post the original lol.
Do like me and keep all the data I send on different forums in case something got "deleted"
(Yes i'm a freak)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The season is underway. Don't know if I'll make it through.
Well, Grifts are the end game. Yes you are correct that Grifts are not the only thing that people do at end game, but it is at this moment the reason people are doing anything, Ubers, Rifts, gold farming, it is all done in order to progress so you can make it higher in Grifts. I dont think that people do normal T6 Rifts, Grifts, level up gems farm for better gear just to have GG gear to blast through normal T6. Everything about the end game is centered around Grifts.
GRifts are a part of the end game but only one part. They are the final focus yes, but shouldn't be the sole thing considered when it comes to balance discussions.
Focusing on GRifts for balance would be like focusing on Realm of Trials for balance. There may be only a few specs that work beyond a certain point, but that will always be the case and focusing on just one aspect of the end game while ignoring others will only lead to more imbalance. Focusing just on GRifts won't fix balance issues because GRifts will always have balance issues because they are the epitome of optimization when it comes to progress.
Thanks man for your reply, yes as I have said before this post is not what I posted on the blizzard forums, when I came here and posted this I was pretty pissed at blizzard for completely discouraging my post and banning my account. I was not hostile toward them I left many openings for debate and was overall friendly with them, but after they banned me it pretty much pissed me off.
But overall yes you are correct even though you disagree with me on certain areas you are not a jerk about it, so I appreciate your post.
You should have post the original lol.
Do like me and keep all the data I send on different forums in case something got "deleted"
(Yes i'm a freak)
No actually he is a good guy, just tired of people and the stupid shit they say, and trash talking for no good reason.
Gotta love people who act like assholes, then get their friends to tell them they aren't assholes. News Flash: If you need someone to say your a "good guy" and your "tired of people's shit", your probably an asshole.
Do you know Hyperion personally? If not then shut up, you can not make a judgement based off of a post on a person. Reality is anyone can be kind or a asshole, you derp.
Also something to think about, in D2 you could pick your favorite class and play nothing but that class and reach endgame content. And now in D3 you have to change your main class every single patch if you want to play endgame content, when RoS came out WD was dominating everything, so everyone rolled a WD, now with 2.1 DH is destroying GRifts, so everyone goes and rolls a DH in order to get to the endgame content.
Blizzard has been promising class balance since D3V came out, and we are still so extremely out of balance that hardly anyone is playing Crusader/Wizard/Barbarian, and the only reason people are playing Monk/WD is because they make good support classes.
Really? Back in D2 (at least in the 1.10+ era), the end game was pretty much P8 hell Baal and Ubers, both of which is best done by a hammerdin (with 1 point smite, no reason to build a separate smiter when you can do a slight gear change). It's true that any class can clear the game in D2, but it is just as true that any class can do T6. If my memory serves me, hammerdins make DH look very balanced.
I share with all of you that there is imbalance in Grift in favor of DH, but the game is not unplayable and 2.1 is better than the previous patches, so it is improving. Sure, there are much more to do, itemization, balance between classes, 1h/2h weapons, build diversity, etc. True, M6 is so easy accessible from Kadala, which I commented in one of earlier posts that while it opens door to casual players to top-end set items, it reduces diversity at the same time. I needed a lead-player to raise all the gems above 25 rapidly to test other builds so I rolled a DH, and now I am interested to find out how far can monk go with Sunkuwo and Inna sets.<!--?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /-->
However, it may not be so difficult to rectify the situation especially Blizzard kept saying to maintain rich content in the fight. In higher Grift, players are one-shot, there might be some drastic change by just reducing the damage. DH still has to kite with some acrobatic actions, but no longerneed to do so all the time like a headless chicken. If this is not sufficient, other measuressuch asturretswould only fire when DH is within a certain distance.
The game is balanced on SC, it's still Un-balanced on HC.
You cannot complain about imbalance on SC ... Even now I'm amazed how they could balance all those variables to get to almost the same performance overall.
But of course... first season was a test run, IDK why you expected more out of it . I didn't even play seasons from the start, because it was obvious it's just a labrat for the future ones.
This will be fixed in the future, they are on the right track. And again.... if you play softcore you cannot complain about balance.
It's exactly what happened in WoW/ vanilla. The good players get all the good loot ( in this case good standing in leaderboards ) then kids will cry on forums. Because if you are a casual and don't even know how your main stat works, there's a high chance you won't get near top 10 and you most likely end up on forums with posts like these.
Another example is:
My main is a barb, Now barbs suck super hard on HC ...worst class there is and most risky to play (On SC they are #1 just to see the discrepancy).
BUT I checked the leaderboards on SC and using the super-power of logic, I know I can't complain on the forums about it because balancing HC will only unbalance SC. And I'm pretty sure they know about this issue already and I know it takes time for them to fix this since they have 999 other problems to fix.
Please read through some of the previous posts, quite a few people have already tried to bring this up Leaderboard standings as an argument that the game is balanced, and if you read the replies to them you should be able to see quite clearly that they are in fact not balanced at all.
As for hard core, I can believe that the contrast and imbalance would be even more obvious.
you all take the fun out of games. Balance this...Fix that....do it or I leave. Then leave already! Stop crying and go. Blizzard already got your money! Sure I'm no hardcore player and not running 40+ lvl Grifts, but I have fun playing no matter what class I play. People say classes are broken..why? Do their moves not work? Is there no gear? no no no...let me guess one class does more dmg than another class. I think this is a trend with Blizzard players..just like in WoW people think they can cry and bitch enough so they "balance" the classes. That ruined WoW...shit why not D3 while you at it....or a better ideal try thinking outside the box or once and make the classes work for you.
I wish some would just understand each side's arguments, instead of just choosing their own and sticking with it ad eternum.
It would make it easier for each to understand the other side's arguments and empathize with them, and even easier to find a middle ground where both groups are happy.
This discussion is usually seen as "one side wants to have fun, the other side wants to have balance and far competition".
To me, that's oversimplifying a very complex discussion.
Usually the side that wants the game to be more about freedom and RNG, and less about balance, are the ones who recognize there's only so much you can do for balance (aka the game will always have a "meta game" and will never be 100% balanced), and hence changing the game over and over again can lead to some frustrating moments where players have to re-learn and re-gear (and play for dozens of hours) whenever things change, instead of logging in 2 months from now and enjoying the game they know. For the player who has less time to play, that's usually a nightmare.
Lots of people on that side of the fence, however, think that those who want "balance" at an ARPG (or any RPG for that matter) want just competition! That they only care about having "equal competing grounds" with other players/classes/builds.
While that might be true for some very competitive players, for others it means having a diverse end-game to look after, in terms of actual gameplay. As the developers once said (can't remember where I heard that, but pretty sure it was on Blizzcon 2010 or 2012) - "your build allows you to express your personality". Making lots of end-game viable builds is allowing players to express themselves in the game, to choose their own play-style.
It's not about perfect balance, it's about asymmetricalbalance. Which is extremely healthy for any game.
Even the most casual player can look to a game's end-game and imagine himself there. Hell, some games I played even gave players a "taste" of what end-game looked like before they even started their journey (Breath of Fire IV, Xenogears anyone?). And it made the journey way more interesting, the grind a lot more bearable, the wait that much more exciting!
Also, a change to the meta-game every now and then is very welcome. It freshens things up, in any game. Some people like these changes to be drastic, some prefer them to be minor adjustments, but I think it's safe to say most players like some change every now and then. I don't think anybody likes a patch every year (amirite, D2?).
The devs already acknowledge players like these changes and how frequent they want them, so the hard part is finding a good middle ground for them.
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Vanilla shouldn't be a part of this discussion because of the gear changes made in 2.0. Before that everything was viable because we didn't have elemental damage and specific affixes for every single ability a class has. That's ridiculous to even compare a game which has practically nothing but stats on gear to a game that has so many affixes for every ability. Yes vanilla was more balanced, because we had less options in terms of gear customization.
They did this to themselves a bit in not testing Seasons long enough on the PTR, which is the only way to really recognize these sort of issues. They focused more on testing the development aspects of Seasons instead of balancing the game around Seasons. I have a strong feeling this will be rectified come Season 2.
To reiterate though, viable does not = GRift optimal. Viable means you can play the game with a build and be successful in it. GRifts should NOT be a part of viability discussion because at the higher levels they're the type of optimal gameplay that the majority of the player base won't ever touch and are currently an extremely limited version of playing the game. Yes, a difference in 10 or so GRift levels for builds should be worked upon, but that doesn't make those builds non-viable, they're simply non-viable for GRifts and are perfectly viable for the remainder of the game. You have to look at the game as a whole, not just at GRift ladders.
You'd have a point if GRifts were the only thing people do at end game, when the only reasons people do GRifts is to acquire legendary gems, to level legendary gems, or to progress on the leader boards. There's far more to do than GRifts so they shouldn't be the only focus here.
I saw the post about the problem with WD pets, my friend got one with lots of them on a season char and he die before they do lol.
And for the rest of the QQ's, when you talk dirty to a girl you'll probably end up with a bloody nose. That's the samething with Diablo. Knowing how and when to let go or shutting it as save me a good liter of blood in my life. (metaphor for the ban in case someone thinks otherwise)
The season is underway. Don't know if I'll make it through.
Akarat save me !
But overall yes you are correct even though you disagree with me on certain areas you are not a jerk about it, so I appreciate your post.
Do like me and keep all the data I send on different forums in case something got "deleted"
(Yes i'm a freak)
The season is underway. Don't know if I'll make it through.
Akarat save me !
Focusing on GRifts for balance would be like focusing on Realm of Trials for balance. There may be only a few specs that work beyond a certain point, but that will always be the case and focusing on just one aspect of the end game while ignoring others will only lead to more imbalance. Focusing just on GRifts won't fix balance issues because GRifts will always have balance issues because they are the epitome of optimization when it comes to progress.
Really? Back in D2 (at least in the 1.10+ era), the end game was pretty much P8 hell Baal and Ubers, both of which is best done by a hammerdin (with 1 point smite, no reason to build a separate smiter when you can do a slight gear change). It's true that any class can clear the game in D2, but it is just as true that any class can do T6. If my memory serves me, hammerdins make DH look very balanced.
However, it may not be so difficult to rectify the situation especially Blizzard kept saying to maintain rich content in the fight. In higher Grift, players are one-shot, there might be some drastic change by just reducing the damage. DH still has to kite with some acrobatic actions, but no longerneed to do so all the time like a headless chicken. If this is not sufficient, other measuressuch asturretswould only fire when DH is within a certain distance.
As for hard core, I can believe that the contrast and imbalance would be even more obvious.
I wish some would just understand each side's arguments, instead of just choosing their own and sticking with it ad eternum.
It would make it easier for each to understand the other side's arguments and empathize with them, and even easier to find a middle ground where both groups are happy.
This discussion is usually seen as "one side wants to have fun, the other side wants to have balance and far competition".
To me, that's oversimplifying a very complex discussion.
Usually the side that wants the game to be more about freedom and RNG, and less about balance, are the ones who recognize there's only so much you can do for balance (aka the game will always have a "meta game" and will never be 100% balanced), and hence changing the game over and over again can lead to some frustrating moments where players have to re-learn and re-gear (and play for dozens of hours) whenever things change, instead of logging in 2 months from now and enjoying the game they know. For the player who has less time to play, that's usually a nightmare.
Lots of people on that side of the fence, however, think that those who want "balance" at an ARPG (or any RPG for that matter) want just competition! That they only care about having "equal competing grounds" with other players/classes/builds.
While that might be true for some very competitive players, for others it means having a diverse end-game to look after, in terms of actual gameplay. As the developers once said (can't remember where I heard that, but pretty sure it was on Blizzcon 2010 or 2012) - "your build allows you to express your personality". Making lots of end-game viable builds is allowing players to express themselves in the game, to choose their own play-style.
It's not about perfect balance, it's about asymmetrical balance. Which is extremely healthy for any game.
Even the most casual player can look to a game's end-game and imagine himself there. Hell, some games I played even gave players a "taste" of what end-game looked like before they even started their journey (Breath of Fire IV, Xenogears anyone?). And it made the journey way more interesting, the grind a lot more bearable, the wait that much more exciting!
Also, a change to the meta-game every now and then is very welcome. It freshens things up, in any game. Some people like these changes to be drastic, some prefer them to be minor adjustments, but I think it's safe to say most players like some change every now and then. I don't think anybody likes a patch every year (amirite, D2?).
The devs already acknowledge players like these changes and how frequent they want them, so the hard part is finding a good middle ground for them.