thats the thing i actually miss in RoS atm, the feel i got playing my old 400k dps unbuffed perma wrath ww barb.
now that was a feeling of power that nothing else in the game so far has captured. im not saying they should bring back the old ww barb or anything, just a few items to capture that feel again. my wand of woh did it a little, opening up a new playstyle while adding some power to my character. but i feel there are way to few items in the game like that.
Why not just turn down the difficulty level if you want to feel ridiculously OP? Have you played Normal difficulty lately?
talk about missing the point
I don't think the point was missed. If you feel appropriately-powerful on T3, change to T1 and feel super-powerful. Are you suggesting these items should trivialize T6? If so, I think you have a bad vision for the game.
I can tell you, now that I can kill T6 elites (With a bit of effort), T1 absolutely feels like Normal.
on the whole, this thread just wants something that is OP and makes your character walk like a boss in the highest torment difficulty isn't it?
As it stands right now, the reputation of the game as far as I have gathered is "run around in rifts as fast as you can to find your royal ring of grandeur....do this because the one or two sets for your class is what you will hope to find..."
And thats about it in a nutshell.
And if this is the case it falls to closely in line with all of the previous bullshit in the game like:
Go buy a skorn,
Witching hour is the best belt
Ice-climers, lacunis
Manticore
IK boulder breaker and Maximus are complete crap....etc
wanting a huge rich item pool does not equal wanting character power to be more easily attained with items.
item variety is good for the game, removing the challenge game by giving powerful items more quickly is not always good.
I don't see the problem with having a handful of really amazing items. Overpowered or not. There is enough gear in this game that your character can become very powerful as it stand. Sure adding in those epic legends would force people to ultimately only want those, but it still remains that all characters will reach a suitable level of power. And eventually you could push beyond that with epic legends. It would give people something to strive for beyond just being able to do t6. Trying to collect all of those items and turn yourself into a god would b awesome. And people seeing those players with that gear in public games would only bring back that sense of awe that the old days of wow had when you saw some on in tier three gear. It would motivate player to continue trying to find those things for themselves, thus increasing the longevity of the game.
I don't see the problem with having a handful of really amazing items.
You don't?
You can't imagine any possible downsides to a game where out of hundreds and hundreds of legendary/set items a handful of them are significantly better than all the others?
Bis items will always end up bis. If not shard of hate pre nerd then something else. Diversity only gets you so far because at some point it becomes worked out that x item is bis for a given class and then that's what people go after. So having an extra tier of items simply makes that chase more clear cut.
Today I have been stomping around youtube watching magic the gathering tournaments. I have never played the game before, dont have a clue about what the the fuck is going on but I did gather from glancing at articles that their are different deck types.
there's just for an example, probably not entirely accurate names or descriptions but you have:
deck types of varying colour, mixture of colours, how fast or slow they attack, decks that destroy the minions, decks that try to outlast the opposing player, or you can choose from a huge pool of minions to decide which ones work together the best based on abilites etc.
it does not seem likely that their is any best in slot cards for your deck, or that there is a best deck to play
I think this is how it should be for D3; not likely that there is any best in slot items to find no a best character to play.
its rock paper scissors on a grand scale. ideally
its a back and forth ebb and flow peak and valley system where you find gear that creates more peaks and valleys and find monsters that expose more strengths and weaknesses and build classes that bring positives and negatives to a party and to a boss fight
in this respect I feel the game has alot of room for improvement becuase these peaks and valleys are beginning to sprout now here and there
and in respect to items specifically there is even more room for improvement and peaks and valleys are just barely being planted.
this is my personal observation with how the item system has unfolded over the past few years, and why I refer to it without saying so directly this landscape of items should be a rich valley of chess games yearning for a few drops of water, and its basically a barren shit-hole.
its a shithole for how lush the valley could be and is not. not that the work they have done up to this point is not very very large scale.
they are on the motherfucking precipice to be sure...
three cheers for item flavour or new items that are interesting and a few boos for "OP best in slot for any class nonsense..."
--------------
EDIT:
Oh yea i forgot to mention. the guy above me mentioned that BiS will always exist. but if the game was planned out more thoroughly as in multitude of roles functions and challenging monster types it would usher in new items and item flavour and class flavour to counteract those differences. if your game is full of "creatures with life" and "dps" is the only yardstick....well.....yea unfortunately it seems BiS will rear it's fat head....if that makes sense..
MTG does have "BIS" cards and decks. From a pool with over 20k cards, you have less than 500 staples that dominate the formats. Any game with a collection factor will have fillers to fill the gap between good and godly items.
That may be, but MTG from start to finish, due to a large number of factors is nowhere near as restricted as the D3 item choices. Umpteen thousand cards to find and build a deck with is just the tip of the iceberg. Even if you strip it down to 500...500 is a pretty huge number. imagine if Diablo 3 had 500 pieces of gear dominating the game modes. This thread might not exist. LOL I'd probably be to busy playing unless it was the top 500 weapons ranked by DPS....
It's probably not even fair for me to compare D3 weapons with MtG, but I was not hoping to compare MTG to D3 items, I was hoping to illustrate an idea; If the goal in the game (D3) is to do damage to monsters until they die and monsters do damage to you until you die you have to strain to make that simplified goal fun to achieve. And while weapons have begun to expand on that simplfied idea of "do more damage/give more EHP", there is much room to grow.
The heart of this discussion is the "build changing legendary" and I think we are in desparately short supply.
Is it the case over at MTG forums that players are complaining about a shortage in strategies or cards to choose from? sure they may have cards that are ridiculously desirable and powerful...but it really is a different beast. maybe these complaints were happening inthe first few years of the card game's life span? thats not very inspiring if that is the case...
Maybe rock/paper/scissors is a better analogy;
Diablo 3 has
Rock and Paper
the Expansion gave us
Rock 2
Paper 2
Seasons will give us access to
Rock 3
Paper 3...
And some players are wondering why they haven't made Scissors Lizard or Spock.......
Umpteen thousand cards to find and build a deck with is just the tip of the iceberg. Even if you strip it down to 500...500 is a pretty huge number. imagine if Diablo 3 had 500 pieces of gear dominating the game modes. This thread might not exist.
You do understand that 500 out of 20,000 is actually a way worse ratio than a few dozen out of 300. Right?
Diablo doesn't even have 500 legendary & set items for there to be "500 pieces of gear dominating the game modes" so I'm not really sure you're having the proper perspective here.
The last thing I want is a few dominant bits of gear whose acquisition is the sole focus of the game, and whose possession locks me into a very narrow skill-set.
What D3 needs (IMO, natch) is an item hunt that isn't on the wide, straight road to more DPS. Fun items (e.g. a helm that makes a nearby white mob spontaneously explode every few seconds, a 'Puzzle Solver Ring' that lets you kill other people's Puzzle Ring goblins) so we can have a 'lol set' for playing below the curve, and more items that induce skill interactions or non-standard gameplay (e.g. a wand that adds AP generation and a AoE explosion to Teleport, lowers its cooldown to one or two seconds, but completely negates all other AP generation, a crossbow with minus AS for the player and huge +IAS and base damage for pets and sentries).
Items that simply improve one skill or another aren't that interesting... D3 needs items that encourage unusual skill combinations, or that have a non-trivial risk/reward factor.
Umpteen thousand cards to find and build a deck with is just the tip of the iceberg. Even if you strip it down to 500...500 is a pretty huge number. imagine if Diablo 3 had 500 pieces of gear dominating the game modes. This thread might not exist.
You do understand that 500 out of 20,000 is actually a way worse ratio than a few dozen out of 300. Right?
Diablo doesn't even have 500 legendary & set items for there to be "500 pieces of gear dominating the game modes" so I'm not really sure you're having the proper perspective here.
yes i do understand that but there is no saying that they must create the "filler items" and the end game items in unison. They can choose the ratio they want in regards to end-game items vs everything else vs whatever they decide might end up on the cutting room floor. I think at those junctions they'd flex their big California biceps chiseled from already having done this for many many fruitful years. we the players do not get to see everythig they are doing. only the product they deliver and the tidbits they allow us to look in on. I've read about entire game modes being cut out of the game and cast away due to their intensely high standards....so when i see legendary items that come off as comparably boring and sterile it makes me think that they would be doing the game a real service if they happened to delete those items from the game before they ever saw the light of day. and when a really awesome item drops then thats awesome for the health of the game. but many times when the players see them drop they are, in many many cases mystified with disappointment. .....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I can tell you, now that I can kill T6 elites (With a bit of effort), T1 absolutely feels like Normal.
As it stands right now, the reputation of the game as far as I have gathered is "run around in rifts as fast as you can to find your royal ring of grandeur....do this because the one or two sets for your class is what you will hope to find..."
And thats about it in a nutshell.
And if this is the case it falls to closely in line with all of the previous bullshit in the game like:
Go buy a skorn,
Witching hour is the best belt
Ice-climers, lacunis
Manticore
IK boulder breaker and Maximus are complete crap....etc
wanting a huge rich item pool does not equal wanting character power to be more easily attained with items.
item variety is good for the game, removing the challenge game by giving powerful items more quickly is not always good.
You can't imagine any possible downsides to a game where out of hundreds and hundreds of legendary/set items a handful of them are significantly better than all the others?
there's just for an example, probably not entirely accurate names or descriptions but you have:
deck types of varying colour, mixture of colours, how fast or slow they attack, decks that destroy the minions, decks that try to outlast the opposing player, or you can choose from a huge pool of minions to decide which ones work together the best based on abilites etc.
it does not seem likely that their is any best in slot cards for your deck, or that there is a best deck to play
I think this is how it should be for D3; not likely that there is any best in slot items to find no a best character to play.
its rock paper scissors on a grand scale. ideally
its a back and forth ebb and flow peak and valley system where you find gear that creates more peaks and valleys and find monsters that expose more strengths and weaknesses and build classes that bring positives and negatives to a party and to a boss fight
in this respect I feel the game has alot of room for improvement becuase these peaks and valleys are beginning to sprout now here and there
and in respect to items specifically there is even more room for improvement and peaks and valleys are just barely being planted.
this is my personal observation with how the item system has unfolded over the past few years, and why I refer to it without saying so directly this landscape of items should be a rich valley of chess games yearning for a few drops of water, and its basically a barren shit-hole.
its a shithole for how lush the valley could be and is not. not that the work they have done up to this point is not very very large scale.
they are on the motherfucking precipice to be sure...
three cheers for item flavour or new items that are interesting and a few boos for "OP best in slot for any class nonsense..."
--------------
EDIT:
Oh yea i forgot to mention. the guy above me mentioned that BiS will always exist. but if the game was planned out more thoroughly as in multitude of roles functions and challenging monster types it would usher in new items and item flavour and class flavour to counteract those differences. if your game is full of "creatures with life" and "dps" is the only yardstick....well.....yea unfortunately it seems BiS will rear it's fat head....if that makes sense..
It's probably not even fair for me to compare D3 weapons with MtG, but I was not hoping to compare MTG to D3 items, I was hoping to illustrate an idea; If the goal in the game (D3) is to do damage to monsters until they die and monsters do damage to you until you die you have to strain to make that simplified goal fun to achieve. And while weapons have begun to expand on that simplfied idea of "do more damage/give more EHP", there is much room to grow.
The heart of this discussion is the "build changing legendary" and I think we are in desparately short supply.
Is it the case over at MTG forums that players are complaining about a shortage in strategies or cards to choose from? sure they may have cards that are ridiculously desirable and powerful...but it really is a different beast. maybe these complaints were happening inthe first few years of the card game's life span? thats not very inspiring if that is the case...
Maybe rock/paper/scissors is a better analogy;
Diablo 3 has
Rock and Paper
the Expansion gave us
Rock 2
Paper 2
Seasons will give us access to
Rock 3
Paper 3...
And some players are wondering why they haven't made Scissors Lizard or Spock.......
Diablo doesn't even have 500 legendary & set items for there to be "500 pieces of gear dominating the game modes" so I'm not really sure you're having the proper perspective here.
What D3 needs (IMO, natch) is an item hunt that isn't on the wide, straight road to more DPS. Fun items (e.g. a helm that makes a nearby white mob spontaneously explode every few seconds, a 'Puzzle Solver Ring' that lets you kill other people's Puzzle Ring goblins) so we can have a 'lol set' for playing below the curve, and more items that induce skill interactions or non-standard gameplay (e.g. a wand that adds AP generation and a AoE explosion to Teleport, lowers its cooldown to one or two seconds, but completely negates all other AP generation, a crossbow with minus AS for the player and huge +IAS and base damage for pets and sentries).
Items that simply improve one skill or another aren't that interesting... D3 needs items that encourage unusual skill combinations, or that have a non-trivial risk/reward factor.