Why do you care, I think Blizzard is fine with RiF..You still need rift fragments and you have to farm them by killing monsters so there..problem solved.
But you have to ask yourself, do you think it's responsible to balance and set up a Ladder system that depends on RIF to be successful? Currently it's not an issue, that I can agree on and in fact, in Softcore, it should never BE an issue or care for anyone. Hardcore has always been broken, so honestly that doesn't even matter until they decide they actually care enough to build a game around Hardcore too. So we have what's coming next, Ladder/Seasons. Personally I do think it needs to be "nerfed" for Ladders. It shouldn't be possible, but as a result with Lazy Design, they'll probably just lay out the flat changes across the board (if they decide to remove the ability to RIF). So, knowing what to expect from Blizzard we should expect one of two things in the next patch:
1. Diablo Ladder system is dictated by things like RIF (among other persistent things like Clans having obvious advantages, people working together to glorify a single person) and everyone continues to enjoy standard Softcore (if people even still end up doing it as much)
2. No more RIF. Ladder is now strictly dictated by people excelling through concerted efforts (another perceivable problem) and everyone else in Softcore goes back to playing the game the longer/drawn out way and the developers (or people making decisions) will adjust 'gear acquire times' and difficulty based on the wealth of complaining in the forums, and their own personal preferences.
We can argue what we prefer. We can... attempt to argue what's "proper" (Hint: No 100% Good solution, must choose BEST POSSIBLE solution). But in the end, I think we know what we can likely expect. I'd imagine it'll be nerfed in some way such as Rift bosses are now entered events like normal bosses (except you can revive) and if you die in the fight at any point you're no longer "guaranteed" blood shards and excellent loot. Players only get one shot to kill him. (typically not a problem, unless you're undergeared or trying to cheat! or testing your limits; which to me aren't problems) Only seems appropriate in a scored competitive environment. Otherwise they probably should just give up on the Tiered Rift system because I'm sure this would ruin the true competitive spirit of it entirely. I can only imagine the hundreds of posts per day complaining about how people are cheating the system to get ahead in the Ladder.
Edit: Forgot to mention botting, botting will be an obvious challenge in the success of the Ladder system. Once you begin looking at all these problems... it starts to make sense why it takes so long for these things to get developed. If only they had someone on the team who could accurately foresee most (if not all) of the problems and concerns regarding most of the changes and fixes they work effortlessly on to apply. No one's perfect, some people suffer more shortsightedness than others in this regard... so I guess we can only hope for the best... or hope someone's listening so they don't make these (what I hope would be obvious) mistakes.
Why do you care, I think Blizzard is fine with RiF..You still need rift fragments and you have to farm them by killing monsters so there..problem solved.
But you have to ask yourself, do you think it's responsible to balance and set up a Ladder system that depends on RIF to be successful? Currently it's not an issue, that I can agree on and in fact, in Softcore, it should never BE an issue or care for anyone. Hardcore has always been broken, so honestly that doesn't even matter until they decide they actually care enough to build a game around Hardcore too. So we have what's coming next, Ladder/Seasons. Personally I do think it needs to be "nerfed" for Ladders. It shouldn't be possible, but as a result with Lazy Design, they'll probably just lay out the flat changes across the board (if they decide to remove the ability to RIF). So, knowing what to expect from Blizzard we should expect one of two things in the next patch:
1. Diablo Ladder system is dictated by things like RIF (among other persistent things like Clans having obvious advantages, people working together to glorify a single person) and everyone continues to enjoy standard Softcore (if people even still end up doing it as much)
2. No more RIF. Ladder is now strictly dictated by people excelling through concerted efforts (another perceivable problem) and everyone else in Softcore goes back to playing the game the longer/drawn out way and the developers (or people making decisions) will adjust 'gear acquire times' and difficulty based on the wealth of complaining in the forums, and their own personal preferences.
We can argue what we prefer. We can... attempt to argue what's "proper" (Hint: No 100% Good solution, must choose BEST POSSIBLE solution). But in the end, I think we know what we can likely expect. I'd imagine it'll be nerfed in some way such as Rift bosses are now entered events like normal bosses (except you can revive) and if you die in the fight at any point you're no longer "guaranteed" blood shards and excellent loot. Players only get one shot to kill him. (typically not a problem, unless you're undergeared or trying to cheat! or testing your limits; which to me aren't problems) Only seems appropriate in a scored competitive environment. Otherwise they probably should just give up on the Tiered Rift system because I'm sure this would ruin the true competitive spirit of it entirely. I can only imagine the hundreds of posts per day complaining about how people are cheating the system to get ahead in the Ladder.
Edit: Forgot to mention botting, botting will be an obvious challenge in the success of the Ladder system. Once you begin looking at all these problems... it starts to make sense why it takes so long for these things to get developed. If only they had someone on the team who could accurately foresee most (if not all) of the problems and concerns regarding most of the changes and fixes they work effortlessly on to apply. No one's perfect, some people suffer more shortsightedness than others in this regard... so I guess we can only hope for the best... or hope someone's listening so they don't make these (what I hope would be obvious) mistakes.
Do you realize farming for caches and babysitting a chat will take way longer than just farming gear? I honestly could care less if they use RiF on ladders. Some people get a little caught up in a video game.
Kadala sucks the life from this game, period. RiF tries to counter that some. OP needs to stop crying about RiF play style. I do it, I like it. If Kadala wasn't such a stupid mechanic with a horrible rate of return -- I would not join RiF channels. But she sucks, so I do it. Kadala is an attempt to correct an issue that as been posted about at length, here and on the official forum, which is -- set item drop rates are super bad! And remove Blackthorns from the Green loot table, along with Travelers Pledge and also greatly reduce the chances of other classes set items dropping. I actually get more Wiz and Barb set items on my Crusader doing Rifts than I do my own class.
Increase class set item drops rates during game play and leave Kadala for spending shards for that super rare very specific slot item like Tasker Theo, or Harringtons. Do that and the RiF community would shrink a lot. Until then, I think the RiF folks are providing a good-for-the-game barter-like transaction based service -- I clear the Rift, you get to kill the Rift Lord with me and then I get to do it again for "free" and you go spend the shards how you want with that horrible Kadala. Smart all around.
Or Blizz could just simply change Rift portal entrance fee to 1 Rift Key person and have that paid the first time you enter the Rift no matter how you enter. Or heck, they could even greatly reduce the Blood Shards from the Rift Lord down to say 25 and then have Blue Champs and Yellow Elites each drop a few Blood Shards throughout the Rift.
But either way RiF is not an exploit, its players playing the game in a smart manner.
Kadala sucks the life from this game, period. RiF tries to counter that some. OP needs to stop crying about RiF play style. I do it, I like it. If Kadala wasn't such a stupid mechanic with a horrible rate of return -- I would not join RiF channels. But she sucks, so I do it. Kadala is an attempt to correct an issue that as been posted about at length, here and on the official forum, which is -- set item drop rates are super bad! And remove Blackthorns from the Green loot table, along with Travelers Pledge and also greatly reduce the chances of other classes set items dropping. I actually get more Wiz and Barb set items on my Crusader doing Rifts than I do my own class.
Increase class set item drops rates during game play and leave Kadala for spending shards for that super rare very specific slot item like Tasker Theo, or Harringtons. Do that and the RiF community would shrink a lot. Until then, I think the RiF folks are providing a good-for-the-game barter-like transaction based service -- I clear the Rift, you get to kill the Rift Lord with me and then I get to do it again for "free" and you go spend the shards how you want with that horrible Kadala. Smart all around.
You accuse the OP of crying and then set about to whine about drop rates and free handouts not being up to your standard from Kadala?
I was with you at first when you said Kadala "sucks". But I thought you meant because she makes it too easy to acquire ultra-rare end-game items, which she does IMO.
Did some of you people ever meet Gheed? He makes Kadala look like Santa Claus.
I actually get more Wiz and Barb set items on my Crusader doing Rifts than I do my own class.
Your definition of "easy" and mine are very different. I think you actually "play" on these boards more than you actually play the game.
Almost 20k shards to get a Harringtons is dumb (which rolled like crap from Kadala anyway), considering others have the belt drop often in Rifts pretty common. But to me that is what Kadala is there for. The very specific item that lets you play your spec slightly different. And the concept of End Game? Really - this isn't D2. That whole concept died with Rifts and loot drops for a Torment level 1 or a level 6, doesn't matter which.
And how the F*ck do you know my drops? I have had the Helm and Shoulders of Akkhan given to me by a WD and DH in my clan during our Rifts together. Boots I got from Kadala after 15k plus shards. So a AC Chest and Legs and crappy hands. So in almost 500 hours of game play that is 3 drops of pieces of my class set items in total. And 1 from her.
During this same exact time period on my Crusader - I have looted Firebirds off-hand twice and head, Jadeharvester shoulders twice, Barb Mighty Weapon green, Barb chest, Barb Belt, Barb shoulders twice and Nats ring and helm. Understand?
Your definition of "easy" and mine are very different. I think you actually "play" on these boards more than you actually play the game.
Almost 20k shards to get a Harringtons is dumb (which rolled like crap from Kadala anyway), considering others have the belt drop often in Rifts pretty common. But to me that is what Kadala is there for. The very specific item that lets you play your spec slightly different. And the concept of End Game? Really - this isn't D2. That whole concept died with Rifts and loot drops for a Torment level 1 or a level 6, doesn't matter which.
And how the F*ck do you know my drops? I have had the Helm and Shoulders of Akkhan given to me by a WD and DH in my clan during our Rifts together. Boots I got from Kadala after 15k plus shards. So a AC Chest and Legs and crappy hands. So in almost 500 hours of game play that is 3 drops of pieces of my class set items in total. And 1 from her.
During this same exact time period on my Crusader - I have looted Firebirds off-hand twice and head, Jadeharvester shoulders twice, Barb Mighty Weapon green, Barb chest, Barb Belt, Barb shoulders twice and Nats ring and helm. Understand?
You sound awfully crunchy. I think you're as honest as you are reasonable and calm.
Let's just move on from the personal stuff, please.
I apologize for questioning your personal experiences in game. Perhaps you're one of the fringe that have such bad luck that the intended functions of RnG betray you.
Did some of you people ever meet Gheed? He makes Kadala look like Santa Claus.
This is probably the best thing that has been said in this post. Thanks for awful memories of spending millions of gold only to get not a single unique item...... That guy was an ass.
OT: RiF in its current form is fine. As an active runner and leecher, there are benefits to both sides. Want to rift with friends for hours and only spend 5 keys? Be a runner/runners. Want to spend a ton of keys staring at a chat log to gamble? Be a leecher.
Currently I think blood shards are worth more than they should be due to Kadala dropping GG gear too often. I geared out my WD in 3 hours with 4 piece Zuni (3 + RoRG), MoJ, Tasker and Theo, and the toad weapon.
So IMO, nerfing Kadala a bit would be the best route. But RiF honestly is fine, and for the first time in a LONG time, I have met some friends through it in which I actually play with, which is cool.
Personally I hate bounties, especially after farming 2 rorg. Now I enjoy rifts so I open a rift and then for the period of time I play others open them for me for the price of a boss kill. I vary the openers from last in to high to low para.
Without RiF id be forced to do boring ass bounties.... which I detest, I only farm the amount I need to get my rift open etc. For me I dont see a problem with it. People should be entitled to do what they want with their rift fragments, if they want to open and do a rift fine, if they want to use to open for others fine as well imo
Why do you care, I think Blizzard is fine with RiF..You still need rift fragments and you have to farm them by killing monsters so there..problem solved.
But you have to ask yourself, do you think it's responsible to balance and set up a Ladder system that depends on RIF to be successful?
If you think that RiF is going to have a negative impact on the ladder system, then it's pretty clear that you are going to be nowhere on the leaderboards when seasons arrive.
Group players will win at ladders/seasons. Maybe botters. RiF players? No, they won't even make a dent.
If Kadala wasn't such a stupid mechanic with a horrible rate of return -- I would not join RiF channels. But she sucks, so I do it.
And this is why I will never fully support RiF.
I feel like it's a bunch of people who feel as if they're owed a full class set within 5 hours of hitting 70 trying to figure out how to make it possible by letting everyone else do the work for them and then joining a game to collect some blood shards and then heading off to Kadala to gamble and then coming to the forums to complain that they've spent 1,000 blood shards and haven't got a full set of BiS legendaries.
Allowing people to just jump in, at no cost, for the rift guardian, and collect blood shards creates a very entitled attitude about Kadala. And I don't like it. It's not good for the game.
The problem with Kadala isn't that she's too stingy, it's that she's far too generous when combined with RiF. For the AVERAGE player she's probably tuned just right. For people who are gaining ~100 blood shards for 30 seconds of work, she gives out way too much.
Personally I hate bounties, especially after farming 2 rorg. Now I enjoy rifts so I open a rift and then for the period of time I play others open them for me for the price of a boss kill. I vary the openers from last in to high to low para.
Without RiF id be forced to do boring ass bounties.... which I detest, I only farm the amount I need to get my rift open etc. For me I dont see a problem with it. People should be entitled to do what they want with their rift fragments, if they want to open and do a rift fine, if they want to use to open for others fine as well imo
I regularly (read: 50+% of my playing time) play with the same 2 friends, a Wizard/Barb and a DH. We also are somewhat bored of bounty farming, and are probably going to look at joining the RiF community simply to bypass having to farm them. Provided "t6@5% one spot opens" getes responses promptly; it looks like a community based method for us to avoid having to do bounties at very little inconvenience.
Doesn't really work solo so much unless RiF are happy for you to only invite 1 person for a kill and have 2 empty spots. Because fuck freelaoders who game the system; if you join my group you're opening the rift, end of
RiF is the best thing to happen to this game EVER. befor RiF struggled to gear my barb, 1.7k hours played, I played 14-16 hours a day to get my eq/ik unity set immortal set. Was a miserable existence. After i finally got it, i hadnt been outside in a month and had to learn how relearn how to walk @@. Within the first week of kadala buff/RiF i was able to get full jade/zun set for my wd. Second week full akk set on crusader. And now i will be gearing up my DH. it has brought so much fun back into the game and im loving every minute of d3 while playing around with diff builds and toons. I really enjoy leeching for a few hours, spending shards then being a runner, capped off with bounty xp runs toi really break up the monotemy of the daily grind that had become farmablo. I wouldnt play no where near as much without RiF. i am high PL, so i only enter lowest opens so it never costs me and when i run i always do lowest opes cause i like to give back to the high lvl paragons who have invested real time into the game. If u dont use rift cause of your idiotic morals or cause joe bloe geared up quicker than your main. well franky your a tool and u should RiP diablo for good.
The problem I have with RiF is entirely around its effect on the community. There seem to be a lot of people who do RiF because they genuinely believe that it's a fast track to epic loot (leading to entitlement and endless bloody RNG QQ), and a lot of people who don't do RiF looking at the RiF community as if they've found a cheat's way to the top.
Purely to reduce community toxicity, I think Blizzard should lower endboss shard drops, and make rift elites drop a few shards each.
... and they seriously need to fix split farming. That shit's definitely broken. Unfortunately, it's been broken for so long that unless they also nerf the RRoG, it'll create a serious haves vs. have-nots problem. Solution: Add the set-bonus affix to the hellfire ring. Done.
RiF is the best thing to happen to this game EVER. befor RiF struggled to gear my barb, 1.7k hours played, I played 14-16 hours a day to get my eq/ik unity set immortal set. Was a miserable existence. After i finally got it, i hadnt been outside in a month and had to learn how relearn how to walk @@. Within the first week of kadala buff/RiF i was able to get full jade/zun set for my wd. Second week full akk set on crusader. And now i will be gearing up my DH. it has brought so much fun back into the game and im loving every minute of d3 while playing around with diff builds and toons. I really enjoy leeching for a few hours, spending shards then being a runner, capped off with bounty xp runs toi really break up the monotemy of the daily grind that had become farmablo. I wouldnt play no where near as much without RiF. i am high PL, so i only enter lowest opens so it never costs me and when i run i always do lowest opes cause i like to give back to the high lvl paragons who have invested real time into the game. If u dont use rift cause of your idiotic morals or cause joe bloe geared up quicker than your main. well franky your a tool and u should RiP diablo for good.
You literally stated the problem in your own comment. Gearing up a character in a week is a terrible state for this game to be in. Set items are extreme end game stuff and you get all the pieces off of Kadala in a few hours of "gameplay". How is that even fun? How is spending 30 secs of actually playing the game going to help make it better? RiF is along the same lines of the AH. It allows people to avoid playing the game while at the same time letting them reach the endgame. I have never been able to understand why you would spend money on something just to avoid using it. The point of the game is to farm for gear while killing monsters, that's the definition of an action RPG. RiF/Kadala is bringing the game down. I truly hope that something is done about it in the upcoming patch. They need to come up with a better progression system than Kadala and come up with better rewards than bounties currently offer.
The problem I have with RiF is entirely around its effect on the community. There seem to be a lot of people who do RiF because they genuinely believe that it's a fast track to epic loot (leading to entitlement and endless bloody RNG QQ), and a lot of people who don't do RiF looking at the RiF community as if they've found a cheat's way to the top.
Purely to reduce community toxicity, I think Blizzard should lower endboss shard drops, and make rift elites drop a few shards each.
... and they seriously need to fix split farming. That shit's definitely broken. Unfortunately, it's been broken for so long that unless they also nerf the RRoG, it'll create a serious haves vs. have-nots problem. Solution: Add the set-bonus affix to the hellfire ring. Done.
So you are basically saying, because of RiF blizzard should nerf the shards that everyone else receive? Smart..
People, why would you care about how other people find loot? Gee, just enjoy the game.
Just to clarify: When I said "Blizzard should lower endboss shard drops, and make rift elites drop a few shards each.", that was precisely because that approach would ensure that people doing full runs wouldn't be impacted, only RiF boss farmers. Smart? I think so.
When I said "Purely to reduce community toxicity", that was precisely because I don't care in the slightest how other people find loot, but it's quite clear that an awful lot of people do care, and more to the point, they care very much about how they find loot themselves, and if people are doing RiF under mistaken assumptions, then the most expedient way to disabuse them is to tweak the way rift shards are distributed.
I dont get why this is considered an issue at all gearing at a point has just become too easy in general once you start speeding t5/6 rifts...i have 6 classes geared for t6 atm i have done rift it forward about 10 times total joining games for free shards before i got bored of that and every other time i either dont use it or am the one inviting people so they can reopen so i dont need to do bounties.... i guess from the point of view of someone stuck below t5 it is easier to see as cheating but the high end of farming is just loot explosions all over the place to the point where people in my groups dont even bother to salvage them and just drop them on the ground for a lightshow
gearing up has become far too easy i fear for the longetivity of the game hopefully ladders will solve that
If the average player puts in more than 5-10 hours, then they've already surpassed the longevity of most other games currently out there. I don't think anyone has to worry at all about the longevity of Diablo 3.
gearing up has become far too easy i fear for the longetivity of the game hopefully ladders will solve that
If the average player puts in more than 5-10 hours, then they've already surpassed the longevity of most other games currently out there. I don't think anyone has to worry at all about the longevity of Diablo 3.
I get the feeling when they mafde Diablo they wanted people to play it for more than 5-10 hours... Poster has a point, most of the people I know who got t6 clearing gear just stop playing. Thats not great for the game.
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Curse PremiumIncrease class set item drops rates during game play and leave Kadala for spending shards for that super rare very specific slot item like Tasker Theo, or Harringtons. Do that and the RiF community would shrink a lot. Until then, I think the RiF folks are providing a good-for-the-game barter-like transaction based service -- I clear the Rift, you get to kill the Rift Lord with me and then I get to do it again for "free" and you go spend the shards how you want with that horrible Kadala. Smart all around.
Or Blizz could just simply change Rift portal entrance fee to 1 Rift Key person and have that paid the first time you enter the Rift no matter how you enter. Or heck, they could even greatly reduce the Blood Shards from the Rift Lord down to say 25 and then have Blue Champs and Yellow Elites each drop a few Blood Shards throughout the Rift.
But either way RiF is not an exploit, its players playing the game in a smart manner.
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Wise ElderI was with you at first when you said Kadala "sucks". But I thought you meant because she makes it too easy to acquire ultra-rare end-game items, which she does IMO.
Did some of you people ever meet Gheed? He makes Kadala look like Santa Claus.
No....you don't.
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Curse PremiumAlmost 20k shards to get a Harringtons is dumb (which rolled like crap from Kadala anyway), considering others have the belt drop often in Rifts pretty common. But to me that is what Kadala is there for. The very specific item that lets you play your spec slightly different. And the concept of End Game? Really - this isn't D2. That whole concept died with Rifts and loot drops for a Torment level 1 or a level 6, doesn't matter which.
And how the F*ck do you know my drops? I have had the Helm and Shoulders of Akkhan given to me by a WD and DH in my clan during our Rifts together. Boots I got from Kadala after 15k plus shards. So a AC Chest and Legs and crappy hands. So in almost 500 hours of game play that is 3 drops of pieces of my class set items in total. And 1 from her.
During this same exact time period on my Crusader - I have looted Firebirds off-hand twice and head, Jadeharvester shoulders twice, Barb Mighty Weapon green, Barb chest, Barb Belt, Barb shoulders twice and Nats ring and helm. Understand?
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Wise ElderI apologize for questioning your personal experiences in game. Perhaps you're one of the fringe that have such bad luck that the intended functions of RnG betray you.
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OT: RiF in its current form is fine. As an active runner and leecher, there are benefits to both sides. Want to rift with friends for hours and only spend 5 keys? Be a runner/runners. Want to spend a ton of keys staring at a chat log to gamble? Be a leecher.
Currently I think blood shards are worth more than they should be due to Kadala dropping GG gear too often. I geared out my WD in 3 hours with 4 piece Zuni (3 + RoRG), MoJ, Tasker and Theo, and the toad weapon.
So IMO, nerfing Kadala a bit would be the best route. But RiF honestly is fine, and for the first time in a LONG time, I have met some friends through it in which I actually play with, which is cool.
Without RiF id be forced to do boring ass bounties.... which I detest, I only farm the amount I need to get my rift open etc. For me I dont see a problem with it. People should be entitled to do what they want with their rift fragments, if they want to open and do a rift fine, if they want to use to open for others fine as well imo
Group players will win at ladders/seasons. Maybe botters. RiF players? No, they won't even make a dent.
I feel like it's a bunch of people who feel as if they're owed a full class set within 5 hours of hitting 70 trying to figure out how to make it possible by letting everyone else do the work for them and then joining a game to collect some blood shards and then heading off to Kadala to gamble and then coming to the forums to complain that they've spent 1,000 blood shards and haven't got a full set of BiS legendaries.
Allowing people to just jump in, at no cost, for the rift guardian, and collect blood shards creates a very entitled attitude about Kadala. And I don't like it. It's not good for the game.
The problem with Kadala isn't that she's too stingy, it's that she's far too generous when combined with RiF. For the AVERAGE player she's probably tuned just right. For people who are gaining ~100 blood shards for 30 seconds of work, she gives out way too much.
Doesn't really work solo so much unless RiF are happy for you to only invite 1 person for a kill and have 2 empty spots. Because fuck freelaoders who game the system; if you join my group you're opening the rift, end of
Purely to reduce community toxicity, I think Blizzard should lower endboss shard drops, and make rift elites drop a few shards each.
... and they seriously need to fix split farming. That shit's definitely broken. Unfortunately, it's been broken for so long that unless they also nerf the RRoG, it'll create a serious haves vs. have-nots problem. Solution: Add the set-bonus affix to the hellfire ring. Done.
When I said "Purely to reduce community toxicity", that was precisely because I don't care in the slightest how other people find loot, but it's quite clear that an awful lot of people do care, and more to the point, they care very much about how they find loot themselves, and if people are doing RiF under mistaken assumptions, then the most expedient way to disabuse them is to tweak the way rift shards are distributed.