Um there was no ladder only loot in D2. When we had ladder reset you can get the exact same items in non ladder. And who is this "WE" that didn't enjoy ladders in D2? everyone I knew loved ladder resets. and a heck of a lot of people only came back to D2 when the ladder DID reset.
I don't know how you long played D2 for, but this is absolutely false. There was ALOT of ladder only items and ladder only runewords. Sure once the ladder season was over the gear got converted to non-ladder, but NEVER could you find ladder only items playing non-ladder. Unless of course that has changed in the last 2 years, but I highly doubt it.
I have played D2 since the first year it was released. I did not play much LOD but stayed in HCCL (LOD was to easy) And no there was not ladder only items. Like I said. When the ladder did reset there was nothing new. same items in ladder as in non ladder. no idea what your talking about.
EDIT: Site I found was LOD, forgot there were no Druids in original!
ummm ok yes maybe for the first ladder reset yes but thats it. after that every reset after that had nothing new. same items in NL as in Ladder.
edit: In HCCl (Hard Core Classic Ladder) we did not have any new items when ladder first reset. Only LOD.
I have played D2 since the first year it was released. I did not play much LOD but stayed in HCCL (LOD was to easy) And no there was not ladder only items. Like I said. When the ladder did reset there was nothing new. same items in ladder as in non ladder. no idea what your talking about.
EDIT: In d2 I went back in every single ladder reset. so again I have no idea what you talking about. same items everywhere. nothing new.
Well you clearly don't know what you're talking about... which is leading you to make incorrect assumptions. So let's set you straight.
--- Do I get to keep my Ladder Only Items when the season is over?
A: Yes. Any Ladder Only Items will be converted over when your character is converted to a Core character. These items can now be traded with other Core characters. That is the only way for Core characters to get ladder only items, as leftovers after a season is over. ---
Are we clear now? Ladder-only items never dropped in standard. You could only trade existing ones around after the season ended. Got it? Good. Now can we stop spreading completely-inaccurate rumors about how things used to work? Thanks.
The exact same items fall in ladder and in NL games. so what are you talking about.
EDIT: If I go back on my D2 accounts and jump on a NL toon. I will find the same items that are in Ladder to at this very moment. right now. lets go and see.
The exact same items fall in ladder and in NL games. so what are you talking about.
Not exactly. Same base item and runes could drop in ladder and non-ladder. But certain runewords would ONLY work ladder. These runewords would not work in non-ladder.
Also D2 ladder had ubers which dropped the hellfire torch. Ubers could not be played in non-ladder thus this item could not be acquired in non-ladder without trading for it with a character whom previously obtained one from ladder.
The exact same items fall in ladder and in NL games. so what are you talking about.
Not exactly. Same base item and runes could drop in ladder and non-ladder. But certain runewords would ONLY work ladder. These runewords would not work in non-ladder.
Also D2 ladder had ubers which dropped the hellfire torch. Ubers could not be played in non-ladder thus this item could not be acquired in non-ladder without trading for it with a character whom previously obtained one from ladder.
These are the only 2 reasons I played D2 ladder.
again. I can go on a NL toon make ubers and get torch just like in ladder.
The exact same items fall in ladder and in NL games. so what are you talking about.
Not exactly. Same base item and runes could drop in ladder and non-ladder. But certain runewords would ONLY work ladder. These runewords would not work in non-ladder.
Also D2 ladder had ubers which dropped the hellfire torch. Ubers could not be played in non-ladder thus this item could not be acquired in non-ladder without trading for it with a character whom previously obtained one from ladder.
These are the only 2 reasons I played D2 ladder.
again. I can go on a NL toon make ubers and get torch just like in ladder.
A quick goolge search will list a ton of ladder ONLY items.
Also one thing people seem to forget often when comparing D2 ladder to D3 is that in D2 there was good reason to start over. This reason being you had to build/select your characters skills and attributes. To change your character build/skillset you HAD to start over. If i played a Cold Sorc for a while then wanted to switch to Fire Sorc you could wait for ladder to end and do a Fire Sorc next ladder.
In D3 there is no reason to start over! You can change your skills and paragon stats at any time allowing you to try a new build when you get bored of your current build without having to start over. I for one do not like leveling, and I think alot of other folks would agree. Why do you think most people powerlevel their characters to 70 when they start a new alt? Because everyone wants to get into the part of the game where the real fun is. Leveling over and over again is not fun for me. Especially when there is no reason to do so! I already have several great level 70 characters that i'm quite attached to. Why the hell would I want to ditch them every 6 months to start over?
Some Uniques and quite a few runewords were only found or made in an Active Ladder Character. When the season ended that character was converted to a non ladder character and could keep all the items that character has.
I never played ladders since I played offline and DII mods that made DII come alive with difficulty and the hunt for loot and gear.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
Also one thing people seem to forget often when comparing D2 ladder to D3 is that in D2 there was good reason to start over. This reason being you had to build/select your characters skills and attributes. To change your character build/skillset you HAD to start over. If i played a Cold Sorc for a while then wanted to switch to Fire Sorc you could wait for ladder to end and do a Fire Sorc next ladder.
Also D2 needed to... ummm... coerce people into playing ladders because ladders (and the SoJ turn-in) were basically all they had to counteract the massive amount of duping going on. So, while people didn't like it, there was actually a functional reason for pushing people towards ladder play.
Character "customization" via leveling doesn't exist in D3. There is no "economy" in RoS. That kills the two biggest reasons to have a ladder, let alone to push people towards it with exclusive items.
sorry I am going to bow out as I do not understand. all i know is. I can go on NL toon and do and find the exact same items that are in ladder.
Yes of course when LOD first came out and had the new items you can only find in ladder. BUT after that every single ladder reset, your toon is NL and to be in ladder you had to make ladder toon of course. but that NL toon could still get the same items in Ladder. whats is hard to understand about that? SO like i said. I can go on a NL toon AT THIS VERY MOMENT and find the same items that are in Ladder.
The exact same items fall in ladder and in NL games. so what are you talking about.
EDIT: If I go back on my D2 accounts and jump on a NL toon. I will find the same items that are in Ladder to at this very moment. right now. lets go and see.
Am i missing something here?
You're about how many years late with that? In it's day, there were many very desirable LADDER ONLY rune words and Uniques not sure how it is now, 6 years after I quit). Many of the very best, found only on ladder. I hated Ladder play. But I only did it for the items. I felt I had too, because most of what I did in D2 was melee PvP tournaments, which required very specific items. Many of which were only found in Ladder mode.
This is coming from someone that will play seasons in D3. As I play HC, and I get to re-roll every time I screw up.
Seriously, you'll beg for a ladder at that point, because your chars have crossed a point where they don't get any upgrades anymore. This game is not made for years long gearing and leveling. In 6 months your chars will be "maxed".
But if the ladder patch came with newer and better legendaries, our characters won't be "maxed" anymore. That's already incentive enough for me to continue playing the game on my old character, if they will drop on non-ladder.
But this is exactly the asinine mentality that led to other bad decisions for RoS.
If someone wants to just grind normal, non-ladder, who cares? It's no different than "rifts will be the best place to farm." Why? If people just want to farm random spots in the game who cares? Why is it bad that the player chooses what's most fun for them (within reason)?
Why does the whole community have to deal with people like you telling us that we'll get bored with X, so Blizzard has to push us to Y? Why not give us Y while continuing to allow people who want to do X to do it and then IF they get bored with X they can try out Y and people who get bored with Y can fall back on X?
Why is the attitude among some players, which gets mimicked by the Blizzard devs "just replace X with Y"? Why isn't the attitude to provide us with choices in how we play? How come so many people haven't realized that continuing to herd the playerbase into various boxes doesn't enhance the game, it just makes it less appealing to more and more people over time.
Why do people who don't want to play ladder need to feel forced into playing ladder? What does that accomplish other than making non-ladder a useless game mode just like story mode?
Or can I have a rebate, then ?
You want competition, fine, do a website and compare your e-peens, it's fine.
Ohhhh...c'mon. Would you people stuff it with this "Epeen" buzzword. Many fans of this genre enjoy competition, and there's no need to try and make people look silly for wanting such a dynamic in their ARPG.
Or can I have a rebate, then ?
You want competition, fine, do a website and compare your e-peens, it's fine.
Ohhhh...c'mon. Would you people stuff it with this "Epeen" buzzword. Many fans of this genre enjoy competition, and there's no need to try and make people look silly for wanting such a dynamic in their ARPG.
I had to highlight Epeen and do google search. Funny word.
Ohhhh...c'mon. Would you people stuff it with this "Epeen" buzzword. Many fans of this genre enjoy competition, and there's no need to try and make people look silly for wanting such a dynamic in their ARPG.
Very true.
I just wish the opposite end of the discussion also held true. Just because someone doesn't want to be competitive, or just because they don't want to play 10+ hours/day, doesn't mean they're ruining the game.
There's plenty of room for everyone in this game. I'm not sure Josh sees it as such, unfortunately.
What they are asking for isn't competition but exclusive rewards. You can have the competition without the rewards, but that doesn't seem to appeal to them, very strangely. they want to feel like special snowflakes because they can sit playing more than others. Come to think of it, it is its own reward.
And I use "epeen" because it's short and to the point. I could use a longer sentence but the message wouldn't be understood any better for it.
The way you worded it, it sounded snarky toward players that seek a competitive outlet in Diablo. Sure, there are some who brag and boost too much, hence the "Epeen" thing. But as with anything category of players, it is generally unwise to lump them all together. I guess that's not what you were doing.
I don't see Ladders as a competition anymore than I would say an unemployment contest is a form of competition. It takes nothing but time invested to "win" this "competition". I maintain that Ladders will do little to nothing to truly add depth of gameplay to RoS. I'll do it for the items and that's it, and only because I play HC anyway. Not exactly an enticing prospect.
I'm exclusively a solo player, but I do well- I'm at an easy T4 with my wizard. Still I don't think I'd be even close to any rankings for seasons. On the other hand, I like the idea of tiered rifts, etc. and new legendaries. There seem to be two idea points:
1) Competitive, increasingly harder content.
2) Character restarts
I don't think they have to be implemented together. Blizzard has a vested interest in character restarts though, and I urge them to resist that urge as the solution for end game content. It sucks to lose all your progress. Some people like the new slate though and that can be its own section of gameplay.
Implement the competitive content and make that it's own ladder. Keep the same new legendaries, etc.
Implement a separate ladder for "new slate" characters. Keep the same new legendaries, etc.
Each type of player remains happy.
edit: I still like Blizzard's current method of increasing drop chance/experience as a reward method while still including all loot in the table. I'd be ok with the "new slate" characters receiving bonus experience/chance for loot to drop.
Diablo 2 ladders worked because we could trade, thus no one was excluded from loot permanently.
If they drop this god-forsaken BOA system, there would be literally no downside to playing non-ladder other then a delay in which you could get the new loot.
edit: In HCCl (Hard Core Classic Ladder) we did not have any new items when ladder first reset. Only LOD.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
From http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/charactertypes.shtml
---
Do I get to keep my Ladder Only Items when the season is over?
A: Yes. Any Ladder Only Items will be converted over when your character is converted to a Core character. These items can now be traded with other Core characters. That is the only way for Core characters to get ladder only items, as leftovers after a season is over.
---
Are we clear now? Ladder-only items never dropped in standard. You could only trade existing ones around after the season ended. Got it? Good. Now can we stop spreading completely-inaccurate rumors about how things used to work? Thanks.
EDIT: If I go back on my D2 accounts and jump on a NL toon. I will find the same items that are in Ladder to at this very moment. right now. lets go and see.
Am i missing something here?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
Also D2 ladder had ubers which dropped the hellfire torch. Ubers could not be played in non-ladder thus this item could not be acquired in non-ladder without trading for it with a character whom previously obtained one from ladder.
These are the only 2 reasons I played D2 ladder.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/elite/uhelms.shtml
http://www.d2supplies.com/ladder-only/
In D3 there is no reason to start over! You can change your skills and paragon stats at any time allowing you to try a new build when you get bored of your current build without having to start over. I for one do not like leveling, and I think alot of other folks would agree. Why do you think most people powerlevel their characters to 70 when they start a new alt? Because everyone wants to get into the part of the game where the real fun is. Leveling over and over again is not fun for me. Especially when there is no reason to do so! I already have several great level 70 characters that i'm quite attached to. Why the hell would I want to ditch them every 6 months to start over?
I never played ladders since I played offline and DII mods that made DII come alive with difficulty and the hunt for loot and gear.
Character "customization" via leveling doesn't exist in D3. There is no "economy" in RoS. That kills the two biggest reasons to have a ladder, let alone to push people towards it with exclusive items.
Yes of course when LOD first came out and had the new items you can only find in ladder. BUT after that every single ladder reset, your toon is NL and to be in ladder you had to make ladder toon of course. but that NL toon could still get the same items in Ladder. whats is hard to understand about that? SO like i said. I can go on a NL toon AT THIS VERY MOMENT and find the same items that are in Ladder.
EDIT: And in HCCL there was no new items.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
This is coming from someone that will play seasons in D3. As I play HC, and I get to re-roll every time I screw up.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
If someone wants to just grind normal, non-ladder, who cares? It's no different than "rifts will be the best place to farm." Why? If people just want to farm random spots in the game who cares? Why is it bad that the player chooses what's most fun for them (within reason)?
Why does the whole community have to deal with people like you telling us that we'll get bored with X, so Blizzard has to push us to Y? Why not give us Y while continuing to allow people who want to do X to do it and then IF they get bored with X they can try out Y and people who get bored with Y can fall back on X?
Why is the attitude among some players, which gets mimicked by the Blizzard devs "just replace X with Y"? Why isn't the attitude to provide us with choices in how we play? How come so many people haven't realized that continuing to herd the playerbase into various boxes doesn't enhance the game, it just makes it less appealing to more and more people over time.
Why do people who don't want to play ladder need to feel forced into playing ladder? What does that accomplish other than making non-ladder a useless game mode just like story mode?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
I just wish the opposite end of the discussion also held true. Just because someone doesn't want to be competitive, or just because they don't want to play 10+ hours/day, doesn't mean they're ruining the game.
There's plenty of room for everyone in this game. I'm not sure Josh sees it as such, unfortunately.
I don't see Ladders as a competition anymore than I would say an unemployment contest is a form of competition. It takes nothing but time invested to "win" this "competition". I maintain that Ladders will do little to nothing to truly add depth of gameplay to RoS. I'll do it for the items and that's it, and only because I play HC anyway. Not exactly an enticing prospect.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
1) Competitive, increasingly harder content.
2) Character restarts
I don't think they have to be implemented together. Blizzard has a vested interest in character restarts though, and I urge them to resist that urge as the solution for end game content. It sucks to lose all your progress. Some people like the new slate though and that can be its own section of gameplay.
Implement the competitive content and make that it's own ladder. Keep the same new legendaries, etc.
Implement a separate ladder for "new slate" characters. Keep the same new legendaries, etc.
Each type of player remains happy.
edit: I still like Blizzard's current method of increasing drop chance/experience as a reward method while still including all loot in the table. I'd be ok with the "new slate" characters receiving bonus experience/chance for loot to drop.
Diablo 2 ladders worked because we could trade, thus no one was excluded from loot permanently.
If they drop this god-forsaken BOA system, there would be literally no downside to playing non-ladder other then a delay in which you could get the new loot.