* Stop playing whenever you want, and you will be where you left off when you start again
* Whatever you achieve is still there and still counts as progress no matter if you take a break for a day/week/month/6 months
Seasons with special legendaries forces me to play that mode (its content! why would I want to miss new content? that's what keeps the game alive) and even if I find these legendaries, I know that at some point in the future, season will be reset and all my progress is gone.
To me this is pretty much equivalent with "Blizzard will delete all your characters and progress from time to time, forcing you to start over from nothing!" I would probably not buy into that kind of game...
Why not just implement the new legendaries in non-season mode as well as in seasons? Feed the game with new content and let people continue building on the characters they already have? Who is the loser in that scenario?
The same could be said about expansion. OMG GEAR RESET WILL COME EVENTUALY AND MY PROGRESS WILL BE LOST IN A WAY! Doesnt rly work. This is needed to keep the game fresh. See it as small free expansions.
So playing competitively motivates people to play and the only way to play competitively is going to be ladders but it isn't forced on us? I normally don't like to make assumptions...but it is probably safe to say that people who care enough about the game to check this site, read the forums, and create an account to comment on those forums cares at least a little about being somewhat competitive regardless of how often or long they get to play. If the rewards in ladder were only cosmetic would we even be having this conversation? I agree, the players who don't play as much won't be rewarded as much just because of RNG but there is at least a chance I too can get a wand of woh or a full set, etc. Add on top of that to add "not only are you going to generally have worse gear because you play less, you also have 0 chance to get the best and newest items unless you play ladders" - that is the issue. I realize I will never have as good of a gear set as a player who plays so much more than me, but at least there is a chance I can see a game breaking item drop. Of course I don't take it personally, it's a video game forum Just discussion about something we both love!
TL;DR: Season-only legendaries and the transferral of season-only legendaries to non-season forces people into playing a game mode that not everyone might enjoy. By neglecting this new game mode, you risk “falling behind”, miss out on potentially game-changing items, and might find yourself separated from your friends, clan, and communities. Overall, it might result in an unnecessary segregation of the playerbase.
My feelings are exactly the same on this topic!
Maybe I will spend some time on ladders, but most of the time I want to play with my friends on higher torment levels, not having to gear up again as I need much time for that (not playing that much as others). But I certainly would "miss" something, when I wasn't able to get the ladder-only items.
This is the elephant in the room, the big 'ol negative that I doubt anyone could successfully argue against. Ladders are divisive. Given the implement of ladders, here's the split;
1) Ladder Softcore
2) Ladder Hardcore
3) Non-Lad Softcore
4) Non-Lad Hardcore
That means your Friends List and your Clanmates will be split into as many as 4 camps. So....you could play all four modes, or, more than 1 to try and keep up. This breaks your playtime down into as many as four modes, relegating people whom have more time to play at even more of an advantage.
Nobody hand me that shit about "Why do you care what other people....". We all know it's not much fun to play with friends that out-gear you by a wide margin, and vice-versa.
My personal opinion is that Ladders are a mistake, a death-nail to many social avenues. As well, I feel we'd all be better off if they'd spend time dev'ing complex (all-inclusive) modes like Tiered Rifts, Uber Events and other challenges which could bring competition to Diablo 3. Ladders are an antiquated and borrowed idea, rife with issues that I believe will create a schism in the player base and likely be seen as a mistake, a waste of time and development resources.
Lol...so you assume that all casual players don't care at all about gear what-so-ever...we aren't "competitive" (again...not necessarily skill but whoever plays the most typically - with a few exceptions) anyway so who cares? Again...people in this forum, casual and lifers alike obviously care about the game, care about having decent gear, and care about playing end-game and having a challenge. I guess us casual players should just walk around in-game at a leisurely pace and enjoy the beautiful environments, chat a bit with friends, and maybe while we are at it we can kill a couple mobs as long as it is a low-difficulty and non-competitive! They can't possibly be skilled players, how can they be only playing an hour at a time? The bottom line is almost every person playing this game cares mostly about 1 thing and that is loot. If you offer the best loot in only one mode, I don't see how you can say that isn't forcing you to play said mode...
My personal opinion is that Ladders are a mistake, a death-nail to many social avenues. As well, I feel we'd all be better off if they'd spend time dev'ing complex (all-inclusive) modes like Tiered Rifts, Uber Events and other challenges which could bring competition to Diablo 3. Ladders are an antiquated and borrowed idea, rife with issues that I believe will create a schism in the player base and likely be seen as a mistake, a waste of time and development resources.
Sorry, but I have to say, there is no such thing as a death nail. A death knell is the tolling of the bell indicating one's death and would the appropriate phrase here. Although it's probably not unlikely there's a Rare called "Death Nail" in the game.
Just had to post because I've seen "death nail" twice this week now, and that's an annoying new one for me.
That's different with seasons. And that's the whole thing.[/quote] Nothing forces you into playing seasons either. Like I said, incentive and force are two completely different things.
in·cen·tive inˈsentiv/ noun a thing that motivates or encourages one to do something.
force fôrs/ nouncoercion or compulsion, especially with the use or threat of violence.verb make (someone) do something against their will.
NO ONE is forced to do anything in this game as far as choosing which game mode they want to play, they CHOOSE which game mode to play.
That's just sheer hypocrisy. If seasons or ladders didn't give you a "very strong" incentive, almost nobody would play it. A lot like "banner rewards" and achievements, very few people care about those since they're meaningless to the gameplay experience.
Let's have it like this. The reward for playing ladder and doing well on it is a "black potion". It does nothing, it's only black. Or a "pink wing". Let's see how many of these so called "competitive players" will play ladder then. Exclusive legs show a very clear intent on the devs into pulling people into a game mode that would absolutely fail without that kind of incentive, because people don't really want what they say they do.
And by having things like "exclusive legendaries", that for all we know won't be able to drop afterwards, they are flat out forcing people who want to enjoy those gameplay experiences into playing ladder. If the next big thing for Wizards is ladder-exclusive, I absolutely FEEL forced to play it.
This whole argument of "nobody is holding a gun to your head" that people have been using since the game came out is just retarded. In an online-only game environment, where the dev cares about what people are doing with their end-game, that argument simply doesn't apply. Nobody is forcing you to do Mira runs, but if that yields 100x more legendaries than anything else in the game with no downsides, everybody's gonna do it. There's obviously an issue there, and only hypocrite players fool themselves into thinking there isn't.
This is the elephant in the room, the big 'ol negative that I doubt anyone could successfully argue against. Ladders are divisive. Given the implement of ladders, here's the split;
1) Ladder Softcore
2) Ladder Hardcore
3) Non-Lad Softcore
4) Non-Lad Hardcore
That means your Friends List and your Clanmates will be split into as many as 4 camps. So....you could play all four modes, or, more than 1 to try and keep up. This breaks your playtime down into as many as four modes, relegating people whom have more time to play at even more of an advantage.
Nobody hand me that shit about "Why do you care what other people....". We all know it's not much fun to play with friends that out-gear you by a wide margin, and vice-versa.
My personal opinion is that Ladders are a mistake, a death-nail to many social avenues. As well, I feel we'd all be better off if they'd spend time dev'ing complex (all-inclusive) modes like Tiered Rifts, Uber Events and other challenges which could bring competition to Diablo 3. Ladders are an antiquated and borrowed idea, rife with issues that I believe will create a schism in the player base and likely be seen as a mistake, a waste of time and development resources.
Also, this ^ I had to quote it.
Because it is probably the ultimate reason they decided in favor of "season exclusive legendaries" after discussing it to death. (and boy, I promise you those items will be very powerful or interesting).
It is the only way they can do it without splitting the community so much, and without having an entire game mode (that took months of design, implementation, iteration and Q&A) fail miserably in its first couple months.
Ladders/seasons is a clunky old solution, to an old problem that we don't even have anymore. There are better ways to bring in competition and make the game interesting.
Oh really? is there better ways? So what are they?
Rifts are a band aid solution to keep ppl playing while they try to dream up a way of convincing people to re-roll characters and introducing a level of replay-ability to the game that they saw in D2 and have failed terribly at in recreation in this iteration, while other games such as POE have great systems (including seasons which is where they probably took the idea (yes ladder resets from d2 can be viewed as a type of long term season but not with the same amount of control or innovating season game mechanics.)) Im not saying 'go play POE', I am saying the problem is trying to keep ppl interested in this game beyond accumulating the best items. What Blizzard wants is getting ppl interested in re-rolling time and time again sinking more and more hours into the game beyond grinding rifts and seasons are a very good way to go about this, which is probably why they are heading this route because people like you criticize and allude to there being 'better ways' whit out actually suggesting how they might go about doing it. So if blizzard is at a loss for how to do this and all the fan base can do is complain without giving an alternative then you're going to get what they give you. And if you reply with "herp, what about PVP derp." then you will have proven my point.
My personal opinion is that Ladders are a mistake, a death-nail to many social avenues. As well, I feel we'd all be better off if they'd spend time dev'ing complex (all-inclusive) modes like Tiered Rifts, Uber Events and other challenges which could bring competition to Diablo 3. Ladders are an antiquated and borrowed idea, rife with issues that I believe will create a schism in the player base and likely be seen as a mistake, a waste of time and development resources.
Sorry, but I have to say, there is no such thing as a death nail. A death knell is the tolling of the bell indicating one's death and would the appropriate phrase here. Although it's probably not unlikely there's a Rare called "Death Nail" in the game.
Just had to post because I've seen "death nail" twice this week now, and that's an annoying new one for me.
You shouldn't allow a figure of speech to distract you so. I can almost see you pushing your glasses against you forehead while typing that.
yes please blizz. do not give us fresh new legs and do not give us seasons. keep everything as is so i can be bored in no time.
The thought of starting all over again to hunt for new exciting legs (just like everyone else is going to have to do) sounds EXTREMELY lame and idiotic.
seriously tho, what a ridiculous argument this is to think blizz is FORCING you to play ladders. damn right force me to play ladders, i say, for these new legs. The idea of constantly having a fresh start with new items in ladder only is the ONLY way this game will survive.
Honestly I am really torn. I love the idea of ladders as a fun bit of competition between my friends and I (none of us play enough what with work and family to dream about competing on any other level) I actually like ladder only items with the caviot that they can drop in non-ladder after the season is over. Bagstone brought up the feeling of being left behind... but honestly I have felt that from the beginning how can I compete (stay geared as this is pre seasons) when I have a family a job with over 40 hours a week involved etc. I can't I will never catch up to the people who play all they time, so to me yea I hate the idea of falling further behind but really who do they cater to? The people like me who barely play? Or the people who have wanted this for years now and play totals of over 1000+ hours and are geared up and cant wait for more? I mean I wish this was moddable like in Torchlight 2. I played that with friends with a mod to increase drop rates so that we were geared out in about 5 months of 1-3 hours every few days of playing. I would never be able to experience a full gear out in D3 and thats slightly disappointing especially with all the neat builds and stuiff that require particular legs. But I should not hold back people who have the time. Like I said I am torn.
yes please blizz. do not give us fresh new legs and do not give us seasons. keep everything as is so i can be bored in no time.
The thought of starting all over again to hunt for new exciting legs (just like everyone else is going to have to do) sounds EXTREMELY lame and idiotic.
seriously tho, what a ridiculous argument this is to think blizz is FORCING you to play ladders. damn right force me to play ladders, i say, for these new legs. The idea of constantly having a fresh start with new items in ladder only is the ONLY way this game will survive.
So you're not against them giving the legendaries to all modes then, right? Because if a fresh start is the only way this game will remain fun for you, you'll be enjoying your season-mode, so what would it matter what a bunch of lame norm-moders are doing
Honestly I am really torn. I love the idea of ladders as a fun bit of competition between my friends and I (none of us play enough what with work and family to dream about competing on any other level) I actually like ladder only items with the caviot that they can drop in non-ladder after the season is over. Bagstone brought up the feeling of being left behind... but honestly I have felt that from the beginning how can I compete (stay geared as this is pre seasons) when I have a family a job with over 40 hours a week involved etc. I can't I will never catch up to the people who play all they time, so to me yea I hate the idea of falling further behind but really who do they cater to? The people like me who barely play? Or the people who have wanted this for years now and play totals of over 1000+ hours and are geared up and cant wait for more? I mean I wish this was moddable like in Torchlight 2. I played that with friends with a mod to increase drop rates so that we were geared out in about 5 months of 1-3 hours every few days of playing. I would never be able to experience a full gear out in D3 and thats slightly disappointing especially with all the neat builds and stuiff that require particular legs. But I should not hold back people who have the time. Like I said I am torn.
This is why they make legs drop frequently so a person can log on play for a few hours and feel like he is getting somewhere. It is not meant to be played for 50+ hours a week. no game is. But as for climbing the ladder to be in the top 10..... dont bother even setting that as a goal. dont even bother setting a goal to be on the ladder at all(bot will dominate it because they only do ban waves MAYBE once a year). Just enjoy the new items and content.
yes please blizz. do not give us fresh new legs and do not give us seasons. keep everything as is so i can be bored in no time.
The thought of starting all over again to hunt for new exciting legs (just like everyone else is going to have to do) sounds EXTREMELY lame and idiotic.
seriously tho, what a ridiculous argument this is to think blizz is FORCING you to play ladders. damn right force me to play ladders, i say, for these new legs. The idea of constantly having a fresh start with new items in ladder only is the ONLY way this game will survive.
I think there's many ways to add longevity to the game besides erasing your progress every 6 months. PvP, Tiered rifts and many other competitive avenues would suffice for many. Myself, I play HC almost exclusively, so the prospect of Ladders seems intriguing. I'll likely get in on ladders here and there, but ONLY because of the items.
PS: If ladders were actually fun, they wouldn't need incentive to get people to play them.
PS part 2: When half you post is sarcasm, it's hard to take you seriously at all.
I like starting fresh and building my way up.
I don't think we should be concerned until we see the content on PTR.
Too many people assume and get worried about things they haven't tried or seen yet.
1) Ladder Softcore
2) Ladder Hardcore
3) Non-Lad Softcore
4) Non-Lad Hardcore
That means your Friends List and your Clanmates will be split into as many as 4 camps. So....you could play all four modes, or, more than 1 to try and keep up. This breaks your playtime down into as many as four modes, relegating people whom have more time to play at even more of an advantage.
Nobody hand me that shit about "Why do you care what other people....". We all know it's not much fun to play with friends that out-gear you by a wide margin, and vice-versa.
My personal opinion is that Ladders are a mistake, a death-nail to many social avenues. As well, I feel we'd all be better off if they'd spend time dev'ing complex (all-inclusive) modes like Tiered Rifts, Uber Events and other challenges which could bring competition to Diablo 3. Ladders are an antiquated and borrowed idea, rife with issues that I believe will create a schism in the player base and likely be seen as a mistake, a waste of time and development resources.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Quit telling me I'm an ass, I shouldn't care what someone else has. I don't.
You're exposing your ignorance quite publically.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
Just had to post because I've seen "death nail" twice this week now, and that's an annoying new one for me.
That's just sheer hypocrisy. If seasons or ladders didn't give you a "very strong" incentive, almost nobody would play it. A lot like "banner rewards" and achievements, very few people care about those since they're meaningless to the gameplay experience.
Let's have it like this. The reward for playing ladder and doing well on it is a "black potion". It does nothing, it's only black. Or a "pink wing". Let's see how many of these so called "competitive players" will play ladder then. Exclusive legs show a very clear intent on the devs into pulling people into a game mode that would absolutely fail without that kind of incentive, because people don't really want what they say they do.
And by having things like "exclusive legendaries", that for all we know won't be able to drop afterwards, they are flat out forcing people who want to enjoy those gameplay experiences into playing ladder. If the next big thing for Wizards is ladder-exclusive, I absolutely FEEL forced to play it.
This whole argument of "nobody is holding a gun to your head" that people have been using since the game came out is just retarded. In an online-only game environment, where the dev cares about what people are doing with their end-game, that argument simply doesn't apply. Nobody is forcing you to do Mira runs, but if that yields 100x more legendaries than anything else in the game with no downsides, everybody's gonna do it. There's obviously an issue there, and only hypocrite players fool themselves into thinking there isn't.
Also, this ^ I had to quote it.
Because it is probably the ultimate reason they decided in favor of "season exclusive legendaries" after discussing it to death. (and boy, I promise you those items will be very powerful or interesting).
It is the only way they can do it without splitting the community so much, and without having an entire game mode (that took months of design, implementation, iteration and Q&A) fail miserably in its first couple months.
Oh really? is there better ways? So what are they?
Rifts are a band aid solution to keep ppl playing while they try to dream up a way of convincing people to re-roll characters and introducing a level of replay-ability to the game that they saw in D2 and have failed terribly at in recreation in this iteration, while other games such as POE have great systems (including seasons which is where they probably took the idea (yes ladder resets from d2 can be viewed as a type of long term season but not with the same amount of control or innovating season game mechanics.)) Im not saying 'go play POE', I am saying the problem is trying to keep ppl interested in this game beyond accumulating the best items. What Blizzard wants is getting ppl interested in re-rolling time and time again sinking more and more hours into the game beyond grinding rifts and seasons are a very good way to go about this, which is probably why they are heading this route because people like you criticize and allude to there being 'better ways' whit out actually suggesting how they might go about doing it. So if blizzard is at a loss for how to do this and all the fan base can do is complain without giving an alternative then you're going to get what they give you. And if you reply with "herp, what about PVP derp." then you will have proven my point.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
The thought of starting all over again to hunt for new exciting legs (just like everyone else is going to have to do) sounds EXTREMELY lame and idiotic.
seriously tho, what a ridiculous argument this is to think blizz is FORCING you to play ladders. damn right force me to play ladders, i say, for these new legs. The idea of constantly having a fresh start with new items in ladder only is the ONLY way this game will survive.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
PS: If ladders were actually fun, they wouldn't need incentive to get people to play them.
PS part 2: When half you post is sarcasm, it's hard to take you seriously at all.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan