I for one do not like to be forced to use a specific weapon just because it's to OP to pass on. Im happy that they fixed it and hopefully they will keep tuning the game to make it more balanced so people can make lots of different builds with good results. I'm all for not having a superior weapon that everyone is running around with, whats the fun in that ? Might aswell only have one class then and one item pr slot aswell so everyone can kill monsters with the same equipment.
To answer your question in the game: No, it doesn't bother me, quite the contrary.
I have owned or currently own several overpowered items myself (Wand of Woh on level 60, Moonlight Ward and Mirrorball right now). The day they nerf my Mirrorball I will celebrate. Why? Because it frees up the shackles of having to use a certain overpowered item. I am bound to use Magic Missiles in my build - or just accept the fact that I basically cut my eDPS in half. I am bound to use an arcane spell and play melee, or I give up on a large chunk of eDPS thanks to my Moonlight Ward. Basically, I'm a Charged Blast melee wizard and everything else I ever do decreases my DPS. I am bound to use my Thunderfury because even the perfect weapon for my arcane build (Gesture of Orpheus, with good rolls) cannot outweigh the Thunderfury proc.
When a single item limits the choice of items, skills, and builds to use, it's overpowered. You cannot make every item overpowered, because if you would, then by definition it would not be overpowered anymore. Overpowered kind of means something along the lines of "too powerful compared to the rest of available items". So, saying that bugfixes (or to go with your language, nerfs) are bad and they should rather buff everything, you are asking for the same thing, only with the difference that this would 1) take a lot of time (about a year, I'd guess, based on the itemization development for RoS) and 2) likely cause the entire balance to fail as absolutely everything needs to be re-balanced. You talk about "mediocre legendaries", but if every weapon would have an effect as powerful as the unfixed Shard of Hate, every weapon would be mediocre. It's all about balance.
Call the changes to Moonlight Ward, Mirrorball, and Shard of Hate whatever you want - bugfix, hotfix, patch, nerf; it doesn't matter. There's no alternative. The alternative you're proposing is outright asking for a broken game. No thank you.
"So they made a really cool legendary in a fluke accident and regardless of it "working as intended" you can easily draw the conclusion that there will never ever be a weapon that will come close to being as strong as pre nerf Shard of Hate which is rather stupid considering the fact that they want to make legendaries feel more legendary."
This is where you lost me entirely. Not only can I not "easily" draw that conclusion, but in fact no one can draw that conclusion at all. That is, unless you've got a crystal ball that lets you see what all the yet-to-be-implemented legendary/set weapons will be. Fixing one bugged weapon doesn't mean that all future weapons MUST be less effective than it was when it was bugged. That's just terrible logic you've got going there.
Maybe, but that's the thing with precedents once they are set its unlikely they will go against their ultimate decision. If they weren't going to leave a weapon in that made a build barely able to farm T6 do you really think they are going to add more items that are like it prenerf?
Thank you for your reply. I never said anything about going back and buffing every single legendary, but rather the future ones that will be added and if they are going to be like post nerf SoH then what's the point? Shard of Hate was interesting to me because this was the first item that was going to be a PoE style of community designed legendaries and most importantly would set the vibe of how new items would be handled in the future. So far its not very impressive.
Btw the hotfix ninja happened yesterday... and I gotta say, SoH is still VERY strong...
Used to proc every time (which made it broken with things like WW). Now it procs around 65% to 70% of the time. Its still very strong, just less then before...
What the game need are items that do big changes to your build and therefor increase significantly your DPS, not simple OP weapons. There are already lots of those nice game changing items (Gyana for example, or mirror ball), and Josh Mosquiera told us there would be much more in the future!
Quote from Bagstone» The day they nerf my Mirrorball I will celebrate. Why? Because it frees up the shackles of having to use a certain overpowered item. I am bound to use Magic Missiles in my build
Or you could chose to not play with the Item at all. Its a matter of your own free Will.
I found one, and i salvaged it...because i never liked Magic Missles in the first Place.
The Statement : I got it, now i got to play with it is pretty narrow minded.
And its also the Reason why Items get nerfed, because People run around with this Mindset.
I found a pretty shitty SoH about a week ago and tried lightning WW barb. It was so stupidly awesome that the only upgrade from the current pool of legs would be a better one. I'm glad it got nerfed, it opens different options for me. It's actually still useful, frenzy procs it a lot as well as other generators. I like the idea of must have legendaries, but out of proportion OP ones I think hurt the game more than help. And while I still feel there needs to be more options (really, only 5 legs with unique affixes on barb only items? WD's have 15 D: ) I think there's starting to be a pretty good balance; kridershot is sick, but so is the windforce + strongarms combo.
I'm just hoping we'll see content patches soon, WITH new legs to hunt for. (Can we get some with cool procs for other elements besides lightning?)
Ugh, more of this... There are plenty of OP legendaries in the game, sets that give u all mantras, mass pets, huge crits etc. legs than give u infinite resource or massive amounts more dmg than a rare.
Shard wasn't just OP it was broken, it let people who's gear wouldn't even let them farm T2 efficiently leap straight to T6, put on a blindfold, hold down 1 button and have everything melt and it deserved to be nerfed. If all you want from the game is to be able to do that, go down to normal and ull have a blast the point of the hardest difficulty is to be hard and that should mean that even in the best gear in the game it feels some-what challenging to do.
I don't think Mirrorball needs to be nerfed, its only used for certain builds, not everybody uses it, but you can certainly adapt builds to work with it. I don't consider the Mirroball to even be in the same universe when comparing it toward the SoH damage output. I think secondary affixes that provide unique procs or casts are a great addition to the game and as best as blizzard tries, people are always going to cling toward cookie cutter builds/specs and as much as they trumpet that there is build diversity options in the game, lets be honest..there's only a handful of truly viable ones.
I do use Mirroball, and lets say they nerfed it to proc only 1 extra, I'd still probably use it. If they changed it to a chance to proc 2 extra missiles..I'd probably scrap it.
Quote from Bagstone» The day they nerf my Mirrorball I will celebrate. Why? Because it frees up the shackles of having to use a certain overpowered item. I am bound to use Magic Missiles in my build
Or you could chose to not play with the Item at all. Its a matter of your own free Will.
I found one, and i salvaged it...because i never liked Magic Missles in the first Place.
The Statement : I got it, now i got to play with it is pretty narrow minded.
And its also the Reason why Items get nerfed, because People run around with this Mindset.
You forget that min-maxing is a thing.
There are some people, like Alkaizer, or Jaetch, or seemingly also Bagstone (If he plays/played WoW, is/was probably a high-level raider as well), who will do absolutely anything they can to eke out the tiniest performance gain from their character. If that means abusing Mirror Ball? So be it. If that means abusing Moonlight Ward? Let it be done.
And no, people like this don't just exist in games. What do you think the Olympics are?
Quote from Bagstone» The day they nerf my Mirrorball I will celebrate. Why? Because it frees up the shackles of having to use a certain overpowered item. I am bound to use Magic Missiles in my build
Or you could chose to not play with the Item at all. Its a matter of your own free Will.
I found one, and i salvaged it...because i never liked Magic Missles in the first Place.
The Statement : I got it, now i got to play with it is pretty narrow minded.
And its also the Reason why Items get nerfed, because People run around with this Mindset.
You forget that min-maxing is a thing.
There are some people, like Alkaizer, or Jaetch, or seemingly also Bagstone (If he plays/played WoW, is/was probably a high-level raider as well), who will do absolutely anything they can to eke out the tiniest performance gain from their character. If that means abusing Mirror Ball? So be it. If that means abusing Moonlight Ward? Let it be done.
And no, people like this don't just exist in games. What do you think the Olympics are?
Min-Maxing is just the nature of the game for some people, I myself did the same thing. I remember raiding in WoW back in the day when you had to go get world buffs to do 40Man Naxx, this meant hakkar buffs, onxya head buffs, the whole 9 yards. People will do what they have to do in order to achieve sucess or gains as they see them. I wouldn't say Mirrorball is broken or even that ''overpowered'' I imagine they could tinker with how missiles work in terms of changing it to 1 or perhaps even a Proc, but its not nearly as bad as SoH was. It's just that type of item you can actually CREATE build around, which is something I like .SoH was just an item that you could get to crank out huge DPS numbers due to a bug in the items ICD.
The Streamers....the Builds of the Week posted on the Mainpage here....all the Elitists telling People whats "best".
People follow those Elitists like Lemmings, and eventually the FotM Ship sinks.
Play the Game, find out whats best by yourself. Dont listen to this Turds.
What?
I don't watch those guys and this game lost it's appeal in 2 weeks time for me. Streamers got nothing to do with bad itemization being in this game. D3 is all about finding one thing, legendaries. That....sucks. Without new item types, this game lost my interest.
The problem with beta test was: This weapon was not in beta. It finished close to release.
I tell you a secret : There was no Beta.
Vanilla didnt had a Beta, and the Family & Friend RoS wasnt a real Beta either.
They could have prevented a LOT of problems we have today. But they refused to.
Funny, I recall being in the Vanilla beta. Also, I recall that the RoS beta solved a very large amount of potential problems. So, yes, there were betas.
"So they made a really cool legendary in a fluke accident and regardless of it "working as intended" you can easily draw the conclusion that there will never ever be a weapon that will come close to being as strong as pre nerf Shard of Hate which is rather stupid considering the fact that they want to make legendaries feel more legendary."
This is where you lost me entirely. Not only can I not "easily" draw that conclusion, but in fact no one can draw that conclusion at all. That is, unless you've got a crystal ball that lets you see what all the yet-to-be-implemented legendary/set weapons will be. Fixing one bugged weapon doesn't mean that all future weapons MUST be less effective than it was when it was bugged. That's just terrible logic you've got going there.
Maybe, but that's the thing with precedents once they are set its unlikely they will go against their ultimate decision. If they weren't going to leave a weapon in that made a build barely able to farm T6 do you really think they are going to add more items that are like it prenerf?
I think you need to analyze what the "precedent" is that's being set here (hint: there isn't one). They fixed a broken item. Period. This is not setting a precedent, as Bizzard has fixed many, many broken items/mechanics in many, many of their games, including several already in this one. Many more legendary items will be developed and released as the game progresses over the next several years. Your biggest problem is that you are only looking into the next several weeks/months, not into the long-term implications of leaving a broken item in the game. An item that broken (or "that good," depending on your perspective) is not good for the game, because it makes a lot of players feel that they MUST have that one item in order to maximize their characters.
As far as getting oneself to the point where you can "farm" T6, I'm not sure I ever want to reach that point or that ANY player should be able to reach it independently. To me, "on farm" means I one-shot everything but elites, and I three- or four-shot them. The hardest difficulty in the game should, just in my opinion, always be a challenge to all players, and one that is more easily completed in a solid, well-balanced group.
i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
Funny, I recall being in the Vanilla beta. Also, I recall that the RoS beta solved a very large amount of potential problems. So, yes, there were betas.
Level 1-15 up to the Skeleton King... you call that a in Depth Beta?
I call that crumbs of the Cake, to get everybody heated up about the Game.
I have owned or currently own several overpowered items myself (Wand of Woh on level 60, Moonlight Ward and Mirrorball right now). The day they nerf my Mirrorball I will celebrate. Why? Because it frees up the shackles of having to use a certain overpowered item. I am bound to use Magic Missiles in my build - or just accept the fact that I basically cut my eDPS in half. I am bound to use an arcane spell and play melee, or I give up on a large chunk of eDPS thanks to my Moonlight Ward. Basically, I'm a Charged Blast melee wizard and everything else I ever do decreases my DPS. I am bound to use my Thunderfury because even the perfect weapon for my arcane build (Gesture of Orpheus, with good rolls) cannot outweigh the Thunderfury proc.
When a single item limits the choice of items, skills, and builds to use, it's overpowered. You cannot make every item overpowered, because if you would, then by definition it would not be overpowered anymore. Overpowered kind of means something along the lines of "too powerful compared to the rest of available items". So, saying that bugfixes (or to go with your language, nerfs) are bad and they should rather buff everything, you are asking for the same thing, only with the difference that this would 1) take a lot of time (about a year, I'd guess, based on the itemization development for RoS) and 2) likely cause the entire balance to fail as absolutely everything needs to be re-balanced. You talk about "mediocre legendaries", but if every weapon would have an effect as powerful as the unfixed Shard of Hate, every weapon would be mediocre. It's all about balance.
Call the changes to Moonlight Ward, Mirrorball, and Shard of Hate whatever you want - bugfix, hotfix, patch, nerf; it doesn't matter. There's no alternative. The alternative you're proposing is outright asking for a broken game. No thank you.
@bagstone
Thank you for your reply. I never said anything about going back and buffing every single legendary, but rather the future ones that will be added and if they are going to be like post nerf SoH then what's the point? Shard of Hate was interesting to me because this was the first item that was going to be a PoE style of community designed legendaries and most importantly would set the vibe of how new items would be handled in the future. So far its not very impressive.
Used to proc every time (which made it broken with things like WW). Now it procs around 65% to 70% of the time. Its still very strong, just less then before...
What the game need are items that do big changes to your build and therefor increase significantly your DPS, not simple OP weapons. There are already lots of those nice game changing items (Gyana for example, or mirror ball), and Josh Mosquiera told us there would be much more in the future!
I found one, and i salvaged it...because i never liked Magic Missles in the first Place.
The Statement : I got it, now i got to play with it is pretty narrow minded.
And its also the Reason why Items get nerfed, because People run around with this Mindset.
I'm just hoping we'll see content patches soon, WITH new legs to hunt for. (Can we get some with cool procs for other elements besides lightning?)
Shard wasn't just OP it was broken, it let people who's gear wouldn't even let them farm T2 efficiently leap straight to T6, put on a blindfold, hold down 1 button and have everything melt and it deserved to be nerfed. If all you want from the game is to be able to do that, go down to normal and ull have a blast the point of the hardest difficulty is to be hard and that should mean that even in the best gear in the game it feels some-what challenging to do.
I don't think Mirrorball needs to be nerfed, its only used for certain builds, not everybody uses it, but you can certainly adapt builds to work with it. I don't consider the Mirroball to even be in the same universe when comparing it toward the SoH damage output. I think secondary affixes that provide unique procs or casts are a great addition to the game and as best as blizzard tries, people are always going to cling toward cookie cutter builds/specs and as much as they trumpet that there is build diversity options in the game, lets be honest..there's only a handful of truly viable ones.
I do use Mirroball, and lets say they nerfed it to proc only 1 extra, I'd still probably use it. If they changed it to a chance to proc 2 extra missiles..I'd probably scrap it.
There are some people, like Alkaizer, or Jaetch, or seemingly also Bagstone (If he plays/played WoW, is/was probably a high-level raider as well), who will do absolutely anything they can to eke out the tiniest performance gain from their character. If that means abusing Mirror Ball? So be it. If that means abusing Moonlight Ward? Let it be done.
And no, people like this don't just exist in games. What do you think the Olympics are?
The Streamers....the Builds of the Week posted on the Mainpage here....all the Elitists telling People whats "best".
People follow those Elitists like Lemmings, and eventually the FotM Ship sinks.
Play the Game, find out whats best by yourself. Dont listen to this Turds.
Dont cry about stong Stuff, cry about weak stuff...and make your Voice heared.
I don't watch those guys and this game lost it's appeal in 2 weeks time for me. Streamers got nothing to do with bad itemization being in this game. D3 is all about finding one thing, legendaries. That....sucks. Without new item types, this game lost my interest.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I think what pisses me off the most is how thrown together the expansion feels. I didn't even get a cinematic cut scene for my $40!
..bastards!
As far as getting oneself to the point where you can "farm" T6, I'm not sure I ever want to reach that point or that ANY player should be able to reach it independently. To me, "on farm" means I one-shot everything but elites, and I three- or four-shot them. The hardest difficulty in the game should, just in my opinion, always be a challenge to all players, and one that is more easily completed in a solid, well-balanced group.
I call that crumbs of the Cake, to get everybody heated up about the Game.
Honestly. ..... .. how about bringing some actual substance to the game? They can keep their little cartoons. I want dynamic itemization.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan