Again, nice job sidestepping the Disgaea series (and games that basically copied its formula). How many titles do they have, now, 10? More? I guess having an entire series of games whose playerbase expects to grind them for years doesn't really support your argument.
Not sidestepping. The Disgaea series is completely fucking irrelevant to this discussion.
It took them almost NINE YEARS (across multiple games) to sell 1.7 million units. Diablo 1, in half the time, sold almost 1 million more units. The audience is night-and-day different, and that's exactly what I've been trying to get across to you. You can make a niche game if you're OK with 400k sales. You can cater to very specific expectations if you're only ever expecting 100k players.
But, dating back to Brevik and the Schaefers, that's never been the goal. They said in an interview that their goal was basically to reverse the niche that RPGs had become due to their overly-complex and numbers-oriented gameplay and, instead, substitute it with an experience where your focus is primarily killing things. They wanted to open the RPG genre back up to the masses. They didn't want Diablo 1, 2, or any other Diablo title, to be some little secluded nook for 10,000 players.
So to not understand their audience leads to statements like how you don't care what the average gamer believes. You may not give two shits about the average gamer, but Blizzard does, and they do because Brevik and the Schaefers proved that by NOT catering to the RPG crowd they could create a majorly-successful game in D1 and even moreso in its sequel. You can't create a successful game like that by ignoring what the average gamer wants and to try to say that the average person who picked up Skyrim EXPECTED 12+ months of playtime is completely delusional. It might be your expectation, but it's not the expectation of the average gamer.
And, frankly, if you don't like that, the ship sailed 20+ years ago when Brevik first showed his idea for Diablo to the Schaefers and then they pitched it to the boys at Blizzard. So, unless you want to take Dave Brevik on about how wrong he was to try to mainstream a genre that was shrinking, you're just going to have to live with the fact that the original designers of the Diablo series set out specifically NOT to make a game like Disgaea. This is not a new design philosophy, it's something that the progenitors established that clearly has carried over and has even influenced other games that Blizzard has created.
Every time someone says a Blizzard product is "dumbed down" that comes back to exactly why Diablo was so ridiculously successful.
Give it a good read. Try to understand that Disgaea represents exactly what Brevik was trying NOT to create with Diablo 1 - specifically that it's complex for the sake of being complex which leads directly to it having a niche audience. It's INACCESSIBLE to most gamers. So, frankly, using Disgaea as an example only serves to disprove what you're trying to prove.
The most striking quote to me came from Erik:
"We noticed that anyone could pretty much play, even people’s moms."
Remember that was THEIR design philosophy. This isn't some new thing. This isn't Jay Wilson's invention. It's not Josh Mosquera's invention. It's not some corporate pitch that Bobby Kotick gives them every three months. This is how the people who the D3 haters have touted as the demigods of ARPGs approached D1 and D2. They viewed niched RPGs as a bad thing that needed an alternative. They viewed Diablo as the ANSWER to the PROBLEMS that games, like Disgaea, created.
So, with that in mind, exactly what does it matter that Disgaea fans EXPECT to play those games for 12+ months? Blizzard has never been trying to cater to that mindset because it's very much different from that of the mainstream gamer. So why should they start now?
The only thing I'd do is slightly increase the number of white and blue items that drop. Not only is it a bit stupid that so-called "rare" items are by far the most common ones, but I could also do with the increase in white and blue crafting mats.
I see this coming up all the time when I'm in chat channels on the PTR. I really don't mean this to sound condescending, but I haven't seen anyone suggest this to you, and anytime I do in General Chat, people give me blinky eyes like I spoke some alien language...
Are you breaking open barrels and inspecting weapon/armor racks?
I'm finding TONS of white/gray items for salvaging in breakables and weapon racks. Even if it's just one per clump of barrels, and I only get maybe 2-4 white items upon a trip to town, that's still good for at least 28 Common Debris, which is worth it to collect if it means I can craft or enchant more. As for blue items...goblins drop tons of mats and gems, Resplendent Chests usually have some blues and some bosses also give out blue stuff, along with the rest of the stuff that drops, which can be anything from rares, plans, legendaries, etc.
Sorry you think it's stupid that rares are the "most common," but it's really not hard to find whites and blues for salvaging.
Again, nice job sidestepping the Disgaea series (and games that basically copied its formula). How many titles do they have, now, 10? More? I guess having an entire series of games whose playerbase expects to grind them for years doesn't really support your argument.
Not sidestepping. The Disgaea series is completely fucking irrelevant to this discussion.
It took them almost NINE YEARS (across multiple games) to sell 1.7 million units. Diablo 1, in half the time, sold almost 1 million more units. The audience is night-and-day different, and that's exactly what I've been trying to get across to you. You can make a niche game if you're OK with 400k sales. You can cater to very specific expectations if you're only ever expecting 100k players.
But, dating back to Brevik and the Schaefers, that's never been the goal. They said in an interview that their goal was basically to reverse the niche that RPGs had become due to their overly-complex and numbers-oriented gameplay and, instead, substitute it with an experience where your focus is primarily killing things. They wanted to open the RPG genre back up to the masses. They didn't want Diablo 1, 2, or any other Diablo title, to be some little secluded nook for 10,000 players.
So to not understand their audience leads to statements like how you don't care what the average gamer believes. You may not give two shits about the average gamer, but Blizzard does, and they do because Brevik and the Schaefers proved that by NOT catering to the RPG crowd they could create a majorly-successful game in D1 and even moreso in its sequel. You can't create a successful game like that by ignoring what the average gamer wants and to try to say that the average person who picked up Skyrim EXPECTED 12+ months of playtime is completely delusional. It might be your expectation, but it's not the expectation of the average gamer.
And, frankly, if you don't like that, the ship sailed 20+ years ago when Brevik first showed his idea for Diablo to the Schaefers and then they pitched it to the boys at Blizzard. So, unless you want to take Dave Brevik on about how wrong he was to try to mainstream a genre that was shrinking, you're just going to have to live with the fact that the original designers of the Diablo series set out specifically NOT to make a game like Disgaea. This is not a new design philosophy, it's something that the progenitors established that clearly has carried over and has even influenced other games that Blizzard has created.
Every time someone says a Blizzard product is "dumbed down" that comes back to exactly why Diablo was so ridiculously successful.
Give it a good read. Try to understand that Disgaea represents exactly what Brevik was trying NOT to create with Diablo 1 - specifically that it's complex for the sake of being complex which leads directly to it having a niche audience. It's INACCESSIBLE to most gamers. So, frankly, using Disgaea as an example only serves to disprove what you're trying to prove.
The most striking quote to me came from Erik:
"We noticed that anyone could pretty much play, even people’s moms."
Remember that was THEIR design philosophy. This isn't some new thing. This isn't Jay Wilson's invention. It's not Josh Mosquera's invention. It's not some corporate pitch that Bobby Kotick gives them every three months. This is how the people who the D3 haters have touted as the demigods of ARPGs approached D1 and D2. They viewed niched RPGs as a bad thing that needed an alternative. They viewed Diablo as the ANSWER to the PROBLEMS that games, like Disgaea, created.
So, with that in mind, exactly what does it matter that Disgaea fans EXPECT to play those games for 12+ months? Blizzard has never been trying to cater to that mindset because it's very much different from that of the mainstream gamer. So why should they start now?
I always looked at the ease of use of the Diablo series as something that ran alongside It's potentially massive depth.
the game is EXTREMELY easy to get into, basically put your hand on the mouse and click monsters. just a few months ago I absolutely recommended D3 to my sister based purely on how simple it was. put your hand on the mouse and click things. you dont have to figure out shit.
But that has very little effect on the potential depth of the game. I would love to sit and have a beer with those founders; I'd want to find out more about how they felt the game series unfolded.
Because D2 was so easy to play that yes my sister could play it, and I'm sure one could argue that it was successfully "adopted by the mainstream" it was arguably the most critically successful title of the 3. If it belonged anywhere it was in the moldiest darkest basements on earth. I'd be willing to bet the people that loved D2 also owned Disgaea, were the people most eagerly anticipating D3 and were inevitably left dissapointed.
I just dont think that the success of Diablo 3 is so fully understood in a technical sense, because its not really a thing you can measure.
The transformers movie is a prime example.
Is it an amazing movie? Is it a hunk of shit?
Was it a success?
Hard to say definitively, but im sure it made truck loads of money, was enjoyed by hoards of children,
and pissed alot of people who grew up with the series off. it depends on what your goal was when you made the movie...:P
Quote fromdaisychopper» Maybe I'm just crazy, but I just don't feel like modern gamers are as interested in "making their own fun" as they used to be. And I think gaming companies in general prefer it this way and are much more interested in controlling the experience for the player as well (especially Blizzard), so that just compounds it.
Why let players create content and share it between themselves for free when you can forbid them from doing so and then sell them your own content?
Borderlands. Torchlight 2. Marvel Heroes. Which, like D3, that "end game max level" content is only there for <5% of players.
The question is irrelevant since this line of discussion stemmed from how items rolled under an old leveling system are being deprecated since they no longer fit inside the new system's contraints. It would be the same as if there was a weird item that dropped at level 50, but (due to a bug) is better than most of the items at level 60.
Borderlands, yes; TL 2, no way. That game encourages you to reroll, not get to max level as fast as you can and then spend the rest of your life playing that character. Marvel Heros is an MMO; why you even brough it up is beyond me (from their own website: "Marvel Heroes is a FREE-TO-PLAY action-packed massively multiplayer online game).
This line of discussion started because you basically said that it is the norm, which it clearly isn't, for non-MMO games.
I'll give you the point on Marvel Heroes, even though it is an ARPG that you play single-player alongside others (for free). Diablo 3 encourages you to get to max level because there are actually things to do, provided by the developer (not mods). Borderlands can say that, and that's why it was modeled after Diablo and has become a hugely succesful game.
I'm not even sure why you started this discussion about non-MMO vs MMO mechanics.
Other companies can make the game Blizzard's fans want more than Blizzard themselves can *cough Path of Exile
Quote from daisychopper» Maybe I'm just crazy, but I just don't feel like modern gamers are as interested in "making their own fun" as they used to be. And I think gaming companies in general prefer it this way and are much more interested in controlling the experience for the player as well (especially Blizzard), so that just compounds it.
Why let players create content and share it between themselves for free when you can forbid them from doing so and then sell them your own content?
Obviously this is a much smaller point in what has become a pretty large conversation so I don't want to belabor it, but I thought since you quoted me that I'd mention you're missing the point. While I do acknowledge that companies probably prefer to control the player experience for a variety of reasons (including profit), the main point I was trying to make is the point you've chosen to ignore, i.e. that it seems to me that most players nowadays also prefer the company to control the player experience, rather than having to make up their own fun with the game, be it by playing less-than-efficient builds or coming up with their own mini-games.
I thought people were getting sick of seeing so much loot with white and blues. Wasn't that why they dropped those rates and increase legs? I haven't played beta or ptr. Just the videos..
The only thing I'd do is slightly increase the number of white and blue items that drop. Not only is it a bit stupid that so-called "rare" items are by far the most common ones, but I could also do with the increase in white and blue crafting mats.
I see this coming up all the time when I'm in chat channels on the PTR. I really don't mean this to sound condescending, but I haven't seen anyone suggest this to you, and anytime I do in General Chat, people give me blinky eyes like I spoke some alien language...
Are you breaking open barrels and inspecting weapon/armor racks?
I'm finding TONS of white/gray items for salvaging in breakables and weapon racks. Even if it's just one per clump of barrels, and I only get maybe 2-4 white items upon a trip to town, that's still good for at least 28 Common Debris, which is worth it to collect if it means I can craft or enchant more. As for blue items...goblins drop tons of mats and gems, Resplendent Chests usually have some blues and some bosses also give out blue stuff, along with the rest of the stuff that drops, which can be anything from rares, plans, legendaries, etc.
Sorry you think it's stupid that rares are the "most common," but it's really not hard to find whites and blues for salvaging.
I open/break every single 'gizmo' I come across: corpses, barrels, weapon racks etc. I pick up everything. Whenever I go to town with a full inventory, I still end up with rare mats outnumbering blue and white mats by at least a factor of 3 or 4, sometimes 5 or 6.
I assume you're fine with something called "rare" being more common than something called "common", then. Is this the part where I give you "blinky eyes"?
Maka I agree with you. Rares and Blues are quite common but normal gear is quite rare for a drop. It did get better in the last patch but still it is quite rare.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
The only thing I'd do is slightly increase the number of white and blue items that drop. Not only is it a bit stupid that so-called "rare" items are by far the most common ones, but I could also do with the increase in white and blue crafting mats.
I see this coming up all the time when I'm in chat channels on the PTR. I really don't mean this to sound condescending, but I haven't seen anyone suggest this to you, and anytime I do in General Chat, people give me blinky eyes like I spoke some alien language...
Are you breaking open barrels and inspecting weapon/armor racks?
I'm finding TONS of white/gray items for salvaging in breakables and weapon racks. Even if it's just one per clump of barrels, and I only get maybe 2-4 white items upon a trip to town, that's still good for at least 28 Common Debris, which is worth it to collect if it means I can craft or enchant more. As for blue items...goblins drop tons of mats and gems, Resplendent Chests usually have some blues and some bosses also give out blue stuff, along with the rest of the stuff that drops, which can be anything from rares, plans, legendaries, etc.
Sorry you think it's stupid that rares are the "most common," but it's really not hard to find whites and blues for salvaging.
I open/break every single 'gizmo' I come across: corpses, barrels, weapon racks etc. I pick up everything. Whenever I go to town with a full inventory, I still end up with rare mats outnumbering blue and white mats by at least a factor of 3 or 4, sometimes 5 or 6.
I assume you're fine with something called "rare" being more common than something called "common", then. Is this the part where I give you "blinky eyes"?
Okay well, I pick up everything as well, and break open everything as well. If you're getting even just two or three white items when you head back to town, it's pretty much impossible for you to be getting MORE rare mats at the end of your salvaging, because most of the time, I get 9 or 10 white mats PER white or gray, compared to only 1 per yellow. So unless you're only picking up yellow rings and amulets (which you can carry more of than swords, shields, etc.), there's almost no way you're getting more yellow mats by any factor. I'm not calling you a liar, but...I really don't see how, if you're actually picking up everything, that you're still ending up with more rare mats at the end of a salvage trip. A couple whites, a gray or two, a couple blues, gems, mats themselves...between all that, I just don't see how it's a common occurrence
And yes, I am fine with something called "rare" being more common than something called "common." Here's why...
First, because this is a game, and taking every single thing literally is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Second, your average white item is pretty much the same as every other white item of the class...which is what makes it "common." A white "sabre," for example, is pretty much the same as every other white "sabre." However, a yellow/rare sabre has a bunch of affixes on it that makes another exactly like it "harder to find," or in other words..."rarer." Yes, with Smart Drops, a lot of items do look similar, as many of them have mainstat and vitality on them. But if you have your eyes fixed on cooldown reduction, reduced resource cost or a specific damage buff, that's a lot "rarer" to find.
Pretty sure that's what "Rare" vs. "Common" means...in just about every game like this. Feel free to contradict me.
The problem is I usually only get one white unless I am doing the early stages of Act 1, I am only in the PTR so that might play a factor. At least you get a good amount of common mats from a white item and they do drop from monsters from time to time. I still usually wind up having more rare mats per run but only by a few points.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
The problem is I usually only get one white unless I am doing the early stages of Act 1, I am only in the PTR so that might play a factor. At least you get a good amount of common mats from a white item and they do drop from monsters from time to time. I still usually wind up having more rare mats per run but only by a few points.
I don't think the PTR has as much to do with it as having high MF. I mean, monsters already drop less stuff, which is a good thing...covering the ground with stuff 99% of which won't get used is far worse than having only a couple things drop that you can actually put to use somehow. Then...monsters RARELY drop white items, even with low to 0 MF. Most of my white/gray items I get from breakables, like I said.
I've since edited my last comment to say it's almost impossible. Anything is bloody possible. I'm sure once in a while, a person will only get one white, then salvaging the rest of the yellows, yeah, you'll end up with more yellow mats. But when I get four or five whites/grays, and salvage them all, common debris usually beats yellow mats, if even by a little.
I didn't set any fire, I just checked the official forums to see if there was any news, since I don't usually pay much attention to whats happening to D3, specially lately.
I wanted to know if there was another "lets remove PvP" kind of notice, again.
@Cardinal: hop on the PTR and start crafting, and stop when you run out of one mat. I'm willing to bet the mat that'll run out won't be the rare mat. And that, to me, would be /discussion.
Love the fact that you don't want to acknowledge how, multiple times, you pointed out the stupidity of "rare" vs. "common", without knowing what it actually means, is just marvelous. You need to do that more often...screw up, I mean, not ignore making a mistake.
By the way...the reason the white/common mat runs out the fastest is because it's used in pretty much everything. Requiring more mats in recipes, FYI, is actually better, because it makes crafting anything at all something to work toward, and so that people can't SPAM crafting the way they did previously.
That bottleneck also tends to help when launching into new territory, like an expansion and/or complete game overhaul, because in case you haven't noticed, it's been quite a while since D3 first launched, and the PTR changes over various things you have saved. For instance...
I once had a full stack of 500 Subtle Essences in my stash, along with 500 of every other blue material. They've all become Exquisite Essences.
I once had a ton of Pages and Tomes...they've all become Demonic Essences, of which I know have over 1500
I once had a ton of yellow mats, like Fallen Teeth...I now I have over 1500.
Compared to white mats, which I've only just started collecting, aaaaaaaaand...yes, obviously those will run out if I'm crafting away every single one of them before I really need to.
I'm just going to point out that, at least in the Wiki, white items are referred to as "normal" not "common." So, unless the wiki is wrong (in which case it should be edited) it would seem that referring to white items as "common" is actually the source of the problem. If we're going to argue over nomenclature, it would seem that we should at least use the correct terms. Yes?
The problem is I usually only get one white unless I am doing the early stages of Act 1, I am only in the PTR so that might play a factor. At least you get a good amount of common mats from a white item and they do drop from monsters from time to time. I still usually wind up having more rare mats per run but only by a few points.
I don't think the PTR has as much to do with it as having high MF. I mean, monsters already drop less stuff, which is a good thing...covering the ground with stuff 99% of which won't get used is far worse than having only a couple things drop that you can actually put to use somehow. Then...monsters RARELY drop white items, even with low to 0 MF. Most of my white/gray items I get from breakables, like I said.
I've since edited my last comment to say it's almost impossible. Anything is bloody possible. I'm sure once in a while, a person will only get one white, then salvaging the rest of the yellows, yeah, you'll end up with more yellow mats. But when I get four or five whites/grays, and salvage them all, common debris usually beats yellow mats, if even by a little.
I just seem to be unlucky with the breakables and weapon and armor racks. When the racks show up RNG usually rolls a 1 on the 1d20 so a critical fail. On some occasions I due get a few whites and then I am happy.
Generally speaking with the PTR the common debris is one of the first things to run out first since that was added back in with the PTR. I believe it was in the Beta before DIII Vanilla launch but taken out later. And I doubt anyone kept any white items or even picked them up after the first 10 or so minutes of starting a new character. I notice it since I prefer to craft things. I also do not have that much gold since I only been to the Auction House a few times and left within a few minutes of entering it. I was also not that active for long bouts since I was not really happy about the game. I do love the PTR wish it was live right now.
I am likely going to ask Blizzard to wipe my account when RoS is released and start from scratch. I might ask them to do it a few times a year if I get into the game like I was for DII.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
SO back on topic, does anyone have any clue why Blizzard has no interest in cleaning out the septic tank that is the official forums? I know a few smacktards woud scream about "censorship" and "only a place for fanboys" and of course my personal favorite "1st Amendment". But lets face it, we know they are going to scream no matter what. It's so bad that you can't make a neutral or positive thread without it filling with the same idiots screaming the same garbage they have been for months. I don't know if Blizzard think they will be happy once RoS drops or not...but here is a news flash for Blizzard...they aren't going to be happy unless you do one or more of these things: 1) Keep pay-to-win available. 2) Keep the AH 3) Turn the game into Diablo 2.5 So, seriously guys, time to get out the pressure washer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It took them almost NINE YEARS (across multiple games) to sell 1.7 million units. Diablo 1, in half the time, sold almost 1 million more units. The audience is night-and-day different, and that's exactly what I've been trying to get across to you. You can make a niche game if you're OK with 400k sales. You can cater to very specific expectations if you're only ever expecting 100k players.
But, dating back to Brevik and the Schaefers, that's never been the goal. They said in an interview that their goal was basically to reverse the niche that RPGs had become due to their overly-complex and numbers-oriented gameplay and, instead, substitute it with an experience where your focus is primarily killing things. They wanted to open the RPG genre back up to the masses. They didn't want Diablo 1, 2, or any other Diablo title, to be some little secluded nook for 10,000 players.
So to not understand their audience leads to statements like how you don't care what the average gamer believes. You may not give two shits about the average gamer, but Blizzard does, and they do because Brevik and the Schaefers proved that by NOT catering to the RPG crowd they could create a majorly-successful game in D1 and even moreso in its sequel. You can't create a successful game like that by ignoring what the average gamer wants and to try to say that the average person who picked up Skyrim EXPECTED 12+ months of playtime is completely delusional. It might be your expectation, but it's not the expectation of the average gamer.
And, frankly, if you don't like that, the ship sailed 20+ years ago when Brevik first showed his idea for Diablo to the Schaefers and then they pitched it to the boys at Blizzard. So, unless you want to take Dave Brevik on about how wrong he was to try to mainstream a genre that was shrinking, you're just going to have to live with the fact that the original designers of the Diablo series set out specifically NOT to make a game like Disgaea. This is not a new design philosophy, it's something that the progenitors established that clearly has carried over and has even influenced other games that Blizzard has created.
Every time someone says a Blizzard product is "dumbed down" that comes back to exactly why Diablo was so ridiculously successful.
http://www.edge-online.com/features/the-making-ofdiablo/
Give it a good read. Try to understand that Disgaea represents exactly what Brevik was trying NOT to create with Diablo 1 - specifically that it's complex for the sake of being complex which leads directly to it having a niche audience. It's INACCESSIBLE to most gamers. So, frankly, using Disgaea as an example only serves to disprove what you're trying to prove.
The most striking quote to me came from Erik:
"We noticed that anyone could pretty much play, even people’s moms."
Remember that was THEIR design philosophy. This isn't some new thing. This isn't Jay Wilson's invention. It's not Josh Mosquera's invention. It's not some corporate pitch that Bobby Kotick gives them every three months. This is how the people who the D3 haters have touted as the demigods of ARPGs approached D1 and D2. They viewed niched RPGs as a bad thing that needed an alternative. They viewed Diablo as the ANSWER to the PROBLEMS that games, like Disgaea, created.
So, with that in mind, exactly what does it matter that Disgaea fans EXPECT to play those games for 12+ months? Blizzard has never been trying to cater to that mindset because it's very much different from that of the mainstream gamer. So why should they start now?
Are you breaking open barrels and inspecting weapon/armor racks?
I'm finding TONS of white/gray items for salvaging in breakables and weapon racks. Even if it's just one per clump of barrels, and I only get maybe 2-4 white items upon a trip to town, that's still good for at least 28 Common Debris, which is worth it to collect if it means I can craft or enchant more. As for blue items...goblins drop tons of mats and gems, Resplendent Chests usually have some blues and some bosses also give out blue stuff, along with the rest of the stuff that drops, which can be anything from rares, plans, legendaries, etc.
Sorry you think it's stupid that rares are the "most common," but it's really not hard to find whites and blues for salvaging.
the game is EXTREMELY easy to get into, basically put your hand on the mouse and click monsters. just a few months ago I absolutely recommended D3 to my sister based purely on how simple it was. put your hand on the mouse and click things. you dont have to figure out shit.
But that has very little effect on the potential depth of the game. I would love to sit and have a beer with those founders; I'd want to find out more about how they felt the game series unfolded.
Because D2 was so easy to play that yes my sister could play it, and I'm sure one could argue that it was successfully "adopted by the mainstream" it was arguably the most critically successful title of the 3. If it belonged anywhere it was in the moldiest darkest basements on earth. I'd be willing to bet the people that loved D2 also owned Disgaea, were the people most eagerly anticipating D3 and were inevitably left dissapointed.
I just dont think that the success of Diablo 3 is so fully understood in a technical sense, because its not really a thing you can measure.
The transformers movie is a prime example.
Is it an amazing movie? Is it a hunk of shit?
Was it a success?
Hard to say definitively, but im sure it made truck loads of money, was enjoyed by hoards of children,
and pissed alot of people who grew up with the series off. it depends on what your goal was when you made the movie...:P
I'm not even sure why you started this discussion about non-MMO vs MMO mechanics.
Yea no.
Maybe I should stop posting...
And yes, I am fine with something called "rare" being more common than something called "common." Here's why...
First, because this is a game, and taking every single thing literally is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Second, your average white item is pretty much the same as every other white item of the class...which is what makes it "common." A white "sabre," for example, is pretty much the same as every other white "sabre." However, a yellow/rare sabre has a bunch of affixes on it that makes another exactly like it "harder to find," or in other words..."rarer." Yes, with Smart Drops, a lot of items do look similar, as many of them have mainstat and vitality on them. But if you have your eyes fixed on cooldown reduction, reduced resource cost or a specific damage buff, that's a lot "rarer" to find.
Pretty sure that's what "Rare" vs. "Common" means...in just about every game like this. Feel free to contradict me.
I've since edited my last comment to say it's almost impossible. Anything is bloody possible. I'm sure once in a while, a person will only get one white, then salvaging the rest of the yellows, yeah, you'll end up with more yellow mats. But when I get four or five whites/grays, and salvage them all, common debris usually beats yellow mats, if even by a little.
So you came to THIS forum to tell us that the official forums are on fire...
Then proceeded to basically set another fire with a topic that's already worn into the ground AND kind of a non-issue?
Yes, please bring this informative thread back on topic so people can continue arguing...
Oh wait...
I wanted to know if there was another "lets remove PvP" kind of notice, again.
By the way...the reason the white/common mat runs out the fastest is because it's used in pretty much everything. Requiring more mats in recipes, FYI, is actually better, because it makes crafting anything at all something to work toward, and so that people can't SPAM crafting the way they did previously.
That bottleneck also tends to help when launching into new territory, like an expansion and/or complete game overhaul, because in case you haven't noticed, it's been quite a while since D3 first launched, and the PTR changes over various things you have saved. For instance...
I once had a full stack of 500 Subtle Essences in my stash, along with 500 of every other blue material. They've all become Exquisite Essences.
I once had a ton of Pages and Tomes...they've all become Demonic Essences, of which I know have over 1500
I once had a ton of yellow mats, like Fallen Teeth...I now I have over 1500.
Compared to white mats, which I've only just started collecting, aaaaaaaaand...yes, obviously those will run out if I'm crafting away every single one of them before I really need to.
So yes...that is...
/discussion
I'm just going to point out that, at least in the Wiki, white items are referred to as "normal" not "common." So, unless the wiki is wrong (in which case it should be edited) it would seem that referring to white items as "common" is actually the source of the problem. If we're going to argue over nomenclature, it would seem that we should at least use the correct terms. Yes?
Generally speaking with the PTR the common debris is one of the first things to run out first since that was added back in with the PTR. I believe it was in the Beta before DIII Vanilla launch but taken out later. And I doubt anyone kept any white items or even picked them up after the first 10 or so minutes of starting a new character. I notice it since I prefer to craft things. I also do not have that much gold since I only been to the Auction House a few times and left within a few minutes of entering it. I was also not that active for long bouts since I was not really happy about the game. I do love the PTR wish it was live right now.
I am likely going to ask Blizzard to wipe my account when RoS is released and start from scratch. I might ask them to do it a few times a year if I get into the game like I was for DII.