The main reasons for an ARPG to be online are PvP which is a joke atm and Blizzard have already said there wont be any updates on this any time soon and trading which has been removed. So what's left, joining games with 3 random people that are either afk, abusive or don't speak? Is that all I gain from being always online, a mode where the best I can hope for is NPC-level players? Always online causes lag, d/c, desync, even time where the game isn't available for play and this is just the start there are loads of negatives to a server-based always online system, yet for all of this negative what is the positive?
I meant more of a reason from a player perspective, I don't disagree that always-online done right is better nor do I disagree that online is bad (there's a difference between a game that can go online and an always-online game). But what do I, the player gain considering how many negatives always-online brings?
With no trading an PvP being a joke, basically i'll spend the majority of my time solo with some of my time spent playing with friends and this is something I could do if the game was single player with an online mode for grouping up with people which is just silly, to expect players to have to deal with such a huge amount of negative stuff and yet gain nothing is just wrong.
Currently on Beta the general chat is pretty alive. People now actually talk about stuff instead of spamming trade offers. To be quite honest I've never felt the game more alive than with this Beta chat.
I expect that to diminish with the games release, and even if it doesn't is having a huge chat with others playing the same game as you enough of a positive to make up for all the negatives?
Depends what you see as negatives. I don't PvP, but the PvP we have is the same as we did in D2, so there shouldn't be any arguments there. I do hope for a good version of it in the future.
Trading is obviously non-existent outside your party, but I've never actually traded anything to anyone, except when dropping super high tier gear to new people. Which is lame anyway. Having the Auction House did not add anything to the Trading experience, so things have not changed one bit for me.
Who cares? Why does other people duping items effect you, it's not going to ruin the economy because there is no economy. Duping was an issue when items were tradeable because it devalued the items making it impossible to gain any real wealth legitimately, but without that issue existing why does it effect you if others cheat?
As a gamer I like that my save is secured on a server that will last decades. My Diablo II offline saves are scattered on dozens of folders throughout several hard drives and many have been lost. It's also worth knowing I can play my characters on any computer I sit on, instead of carrying my saves like we're in the year 1995, or keeping copies of them somewhere online and having to reupload them every time I finish a session.
As an employee in a similar company I understand perfectly why this is done. Cheating to such a degree devalues the experience players have in said game. They then have less of a pull towards the game and are far less likely to play it again or to remember the company with anything great. It demolishes the learning experience, which is 80% of the joy in these games and removes the reason to play at all after your gear is 100% perfect.
Many more reasons from both points of view, but it's getting pretty late and I have work in a few hours.
Who cares? Why does other people duping items effect you, it's not going to ruin the economy because there is no economy.
So people duping items/gold for infinite enchanting/crafting should be allowed?
I don't get the argument.... remove trading (a loved aspect of the game) so that there's no economy.... so that we can turn a blind eye to people cheating? That sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.
Btw i'm not arguing that trading should be removed, the fact is it is being removed.
/e
I just don't really get why you care that someone else cheated, do you not enjoy any single player game because of the idea that someone out there cheated on it? The restrictions make sense when what a player does effects other players but with the current version of D3 it doesn't, so yes players should be free to play the game how they want to.
If cheating devalues it for you, don't cheat? In D2 the ability to cheat increase the value of the game for me, me and friends had fun in open B.Net trying to "out-cheat" each other. We still had our legit characters to and the ability to cheat didn't devalue them. As for having easy access to save files, while I agree with this I don't think it's enough to make up for the amount of issues always-online causes.
Ultimately it's an always-online game which causes people to be in the same world as a huge amount of other players and yet doesn't utilize that in anyway and without that huge benefit to always-online being utilize I don't feel it's worth it.
It's not about you and your friends. it's about the game being accessible to a huge amount of people that can all cheat. New players are the ones that will get spoiled, not those that have already spent hundreds of hours into the game.
Also, to this day there isn't a well working pirated version of the game. Because of always-online.
I'm confused, how will new players get spoiled? Sure they could choose to cheat if they wanted but that's their choice, or join a game and be given stuff but again it's their choice to take it. From my perspective always-online does nothing but hurt the experience, it restricts the amount of things I can do, prevents me from playing on certain days and causes me to have to deal with issues such as desync while giving me little to nothing in return. Like I said, I understand always-online if it utilizes the fact there are lots of players in the same world via things such as trading, grouped events or pvp but in RoS it wont utilize it at all.
If in a game where one persons actions does not effect you at all, why does it matter if they do or don't cheat? Why does the option to do so devalue the game, there not forced to cheat, new players don't have to cheat so I don't see why having the choice to spoils anything. The thing that makes me said is that with RoS in it's current state i'm going to be in this always-online world and it's going to reduce the amount i'll have to do in the game as opposed to increase the amount.
I'm aware that always-online reduces the amount the game is pirated, but restricting legit player experience to prevent pirates imo is just wrong.
@Evolution85
Again I reiterate right now there's no interesting interaction between players because no trading, no pvp, no lobby and no group-style content so what does it matter if someone ull never have any interaction with cheats? I highly doubt it will ever change, regardless I would like to see a justification for it that I can at least agree that from a certain point of view makes sense beyond "to stop pirating".
@Insane!
I agree, the exp will still be fun but as it is right now it's going to be a 1 week wonder and not the diablo I was hoping for. It really blows my mind that they have a game that plays so well with a huge following, force everyone into the same shard and always-online and then make a single player/co-op one week wonder game.
@Karandor
And all we need for that to happen is for the majority of the human race which are selfish, annoying assholes to turn into decent people not to much of a stretch I guess? Maybe if they made some sort of lobby so you could pick your games a bit more directly and thus increase your chances of getting decent people but when just being thrown in with a bunch of randoms...
@Bleu42
If they made pvp anything more than the random boring zergfest I would agree with you on that, but a boring zergfest is what is and change it they will not.
_____________________________
I feel like this is going of from my point anyway, the question isn't about whether or not cheating is ok or not etc. or whether or not the always online mode should be removed. I don't want to know that always online is there to prevent cheats or quality of life when changing around computers.
I want to know what interaction is being created within the always online this game has? I can't trade with them, being thrown in with some randoms is pointless because I have no control over what type of person i'll be put with and pvp is junk so the game has a huge player base and we're all on the same shard yet it would appear we don't actually gain anything from that.
So you point out that the vast majority of the human race is selfish, annoying assholes, yet fail to realize that you're being selfish by demanding the game be changed for you and you alone, being annoying by creating this thread and constantly howling the same dry and overused argument that every cheater uses, and then trash talk the game and the players here giving you feedback and mature responses? sounds like an asshole to me.
Let's face it, cheating destroys the integrity of the game considering that TO create said cheat programs the programmers have to take and break the code which slowly destroys the foundations of the game's coding, creating bugs and glitches all over the place. Also, nobody wants a bunch of duped items back into the D3 economy that hackers use as trackers to then crack into your account and steal all your stuff. Then there's the piracy issue. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg as I could go on for hours about why cheating is terrible and as much as most of us hate the "always online" policy, we understand why it is important.
If you can't deal with that then I think it's time for you to move on. I have my own issues with reaper of souls but it has more to do with lack of content and another predictable storyline. we live in the 21st century, kind of hard not to have internet these days and if its such a HUGE DEAL, buy the console version and quit wasting our time with these nonsensical threads.
@Rasako
Can we please stop all talking about cheating and if always-online should/shouldn't exist, while peoples position on cheating and whether or not always-online should exist can be an interesting topic it's not the purpose of this thread. I accept that they are forcing me to be online, i'm simply saying ok, i'm online with this million other people so what do I gain? I can't trade, pvp is a joke and grouping up with people is pointless because of the lack of control over who your grouped with, the lack of group gains and the lack of group content. So what is it that I actually am able to do with these million other people that are playing on the same shard as me?
I'm unsure what caused such an aggressive response from you or what gave the impression that i'm demanding the game to be changed for me alone but w/e did I apologize and this isn't the case I simply want to know what it is I can actually do with all the people that are on the same shard as me.
What I was saying was that, in a game that has next to zero competitive elements, claiming that the fact that someone cheats is devaluing your experience comes across as nitpicky.
Reminds me of another discussion.
I don't really think they should actively SUPPORT people who are trying to cheat. But I really have grown to hate this sterilized "no one can do ANYTHING because it might make me a sad panda" attitude too. I get that everyone wants the best game possible, but I firmly reject that ANY game is under ANY obligation to cater to ANY person exactly the way they want. As a result I reject the idea that any game is "bad" because it hasn't given any individual EXACTLY what they think the game should give them.
In fact, I believe that the best games aren't trying to please a single person, or even a narrow segment of the population. I believe that's EXACTLY why D2 was successful. It had issues, it had plenty of issues, but it rarely went out of its way to force anyone to play in any particular manner outside of the very general framework of an ARPG. What did that do? It made it easy to tolerate the issues because you were busy having your own fun.
Civilization II is one of my all-time favourite games. Absolutely loved that game, spent countless hours on it.
It came with an integrated cheat menu. It didn't devalue the game by one iota.
/JustSayin'
I admittedly haven't played much of it, at all. Were you allowed to cheat online while facing another person?
I really don't know, I only played it solo.
What I was saying was that, in a game that has next to zero competitive elements, claiming that the fact that someone cheats is devaluing your experience comes across as nitpicky.
I understand, but I have to completely disagree on the competitive elements being absent in Diablo. Diablo's always had a flavor of competitiveness, even if it's indirect. Half the reason my friends and I wanted awesome gear, was to have better gear than the other people we knew, so it was a competition in that vein. Also, we competed for who was the most efficient at farming. Again, not direct, but we were still competing against others, and I think D3 is no different. That's really the main reason why I've always been against offline mode, because yes other people cheating DOES effect my game play (personal opinion here, I say my game play as really mine, not everyone's), because I'm playing to compete in who's the most efficient and who has the best gear, and it really sucks the fun out when people can cheat.
I'm also certain that down the road, we will be seeing ladders, and we will compete in events such as those already suggested, like who can reach the furthest level in an endless dungeon with increasingly hard mobs, who can kill the highest wave of monsters, who can paragon level the fastest, ect. Keeping D3 online only is a decision that I've agreed with since the start - it does suck when my internet is out, but the game play a LOT better as a whole.
With no trading an PvP being a joke, basically i'll spend the majority of my time solo with some of my time spent playing with friends and this is something I could do if the game was single player with an online mode for grouping up with people which is just silly, to expect players to have to deal with such a huge amount of negative stuff and yet gain nothing is just wrong.
Ha. Bagstone.
Trading is obviously non-existent outside your party, but I've never actually traded anything to anyone, except when dropping super high tier gear to new people. Which is lame anyway. Having the Auction House did not add anything to the Trading experience, so things have not changed one bit for me.
Ha. Bagstone.
As an employee in a similar company I understand perfectly why this is done. Cheating to such a degree devalues the experience players have in said game. They then have less of a pull towards the game and are far less likely to play it again or to remember the company with anything great. It demolishes the learning experience, which is 80% of the joy in these games and removes the reason to play at all after your gear is 100% perfect.
Many more reasons from both points of view, but it's getting pretty late and I have work in a few hours.
Ha. Bagstone.
I don't get the argument.... remove trading (a loved aspect of the game) so that there's no economy.... so that we can turn a blind eye to people cheating? That sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.
Btw i'm not arguing that trading should be removed, the fact is it is being removed.
/e
I just don't really get why you care that someone else cheated, do you not enjoy any single player game because of the idea that someone out there cheated on it? The restrictions make sense when what a player does effects other players but with the current version of D3 it doesn't, so yes players should be free to play the game how they want to.
If cheating devalues it for you, don't cheat? In D2 the ability to cheat increase the value of the game for me, me and friends had fun in open B.Net trying to "out-cheat" each other. We still had our legit characters to and the ability to cheat didn't devalue them. As for having easy access to save files, while I agree with this I don't think it's enough to make up for the amount of issues always-online causes.
Ultimately it's an always-online game which causes people to be in the same world as a huge amount of other players and yet doesn't utilize that in anyway and without that huge benefit to always-online being utilize I don't feel it's worth it.
Also, to this day there isn't a well working pirated version of the game. Because of always-online.
Ha. Bagstone.
If in a game where one persons actions does not effect you at all, why does it matter if they do or don't cheat? Why does the option to do so devalue the game, there not forced to cheat, new players don't have to cheat so I don't see why having the choice to spoils anything. The thing that makes me said is that with RoS in it's current state i'm going to be in this always-online world and it's going to reduce the amount i'll have to do in the game as opposed to increase the amount.
I'm aware that always-online reduces the amount the game is pirated, but restricting legit player experience to prevent pirates imo is just wrong.
The NUMBER ONE reason Diablo is online dependent is to stop cheats and hacks. Don't kid yourself thinking otherwise.
It's NOT going to change. People either need to accept that, or move on.
I see the line in the sand. Time to find out who I am. Looking back to see where I stand. Evolution.
Member of the Dfans clan.
BNet Tag: Evolution85#1878
So maybe people will actually chat and trade in open games.
That is a much more interesting interaction than trading. I traded a ton in D2 and am happy to never have to go back to that mess.
Again I reiterate right now there's no interesting interaction between players because no trading, no pvp, no lobby and no group-style content so what does it matter if someone ull never have any interaction with cheats? I highly doubt it will ever change, regardless I would like to see a justification for it that I can at least agree that from a certain point of view makes sense beyond "to stop pirating".
@Insane!
I agree, the exp will still be fun but as it is right now it's going to be a 1 week wonder and not the diablo I was hoping for. It really blows my mind that they have a game that plays so well with a huge following, force everyone into the same shard and always-online and then make a single player/co-op one week wonder game.
@Karandor
And all we need for that to happen is for the majority of the human race which are selfish, annoying assholes to turn into decent people not to much of a stretch I guess? Maybe if they made some sort of lobby so you could pick your games a bit more directly and thus increase your chances of getting decent people but when just being thrown in with a bunch of randoms...
@Bleu42
If they made pvp anything more than the random boring zergfest I would agree with you on that, but a boring zergfest is what is and change it they will not.
_____________________________
I feel like this is going of from my point anyway, the question isn't about whether or not cheating is ok or not etc. or whether or not the always online mode should be removed. I don't want to know that always online is there to prevent cheats or quality of life when changing around computers.
I want to know what interaction is being created within the always online this game has? I can't trade with them, being thrown in with some randoms is pointless because I have no control over what type of person i'll be put with and pvp is junk so the game has a huge player base and we're all on the same shard yet it would appear we don't actually gain anything from that.
Let's face it, cheating destroys the integrity of the game considering that TO create said cheat programs the programmers have to take and break the code which slowly destroys the foundations of the game's coding, creating bugs and glitches all over the place. Also, nobody wants a bunch of duped items back into the D3 economy that hackers use as trackers to then crack into your account and steal all your stuff. Then there's the piracy issue. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg as I could go on for hours about why cheating is terrible and as much as most of us hate the "always online" policy, we understand why it is important.
If you can't deal with that then I think it's time for you to move on. I have my own issues with reaper of souls but it has more to do with lack of content and another predictable storyline. we live in the 21st century, kind of hard not to have internet these days and if its such a HUGE DEAL, buy the console version and quit wasting our time with these nonsensical threads.
Can we please stop all talking about cheating and if always-online should/shouldn't exist, while peoples position on cheating and whether or not always-online should exist can be an interesting topic it's not the purpose of this thread. I accept that they are forcing me to be online, i'm simply saying ok, i'm online with this million other people so what do I gain? I can't trade, pvp is a joke and grouping up with people is pointless because of the lack of control over who your grouped with, the lack of group gains and the lack of group content. So what is it that I actually am able to do with these million other people that are playing on the same shard as me?
I'm unsure what caused such an aggressive response from you or what gave the impression that i'm demanding the game to be changed for me alone but w/e did I apologize and this isn't the case I simply want to know what it is I can actually do with all the people that are on the same shard as me.
I don't really think they should actively SUPPORT people who are trying to cheat. But I really have grown to hate this sterilized "no one can do ANYTHING because it might make me a sad panda" attitude too. I get that everyone wants the best game possible, but I firmly reject that ANY game is under ANY obligation to cater to ANY person exactly the way they want. As a result I reject the idea that any game is "bad" because it hasn't given any individual EXACTLY what they think the game should give them.
In fact, I believe that the best games aren't trying to please a single person, or even a narrow segment of the population. I believe that's EXACTLY why D2 was successful. It had issues, it had plenty of issues, but it rarely went out of its way to force anyone to play in any particular manner outside of the very general framework of an ARPG. What did that do? It made it easy to tolerate the issues because you were busy having your own fun.
I'm also certain that down the road, we will be seeing ladders, and we will compete in events such as those already suggested, like who can reach the furthest level in an endless dungeon with increasingly hard mobs, who can kill the highest wave of monsters, who can paragon level the fastest, ect. Keeping D3 online only is a decision that I've agreed with since the start - it does suck when my internet is out, but the game play a LOT better as a whole.