(Numbers are random and can be changed to balance things out)
#1 Rerolling Legendary/Set items as an Item Sink
When we head to the AH, we see pages after pages of Legendary items. Most of them are never going to be sold. The only "legendary/set item" sink we have is salvage, but there isn't many things to do with those materials. It's time to add another item sink.
Let's say you want to reroll a Mempo. To reroll, you will need...
2 Mempo (Removing 1 Mempo from the game)
5 Fiery Brimstone, 20 Iridescent Tear and 50 Exquisite Essence
2 Demonic Essence
It doesn't cost gold
Should the end-result of this be BoA? It's up to debate. If it's tradable, people might start using this to try to make profits --- but on the other hand, even if they do this, they are removing items from the economy. In either case, it fulfills its purpose.
This method will sink away the excess of Legendary items. The bad ones (such as Promise of Glory) are going to be salvaged for materials while the good ones (Mempo) are going to be rerolled. Now, if the itemization patch allows every Legendary/Set items to have the potential of being good, it might make things a lot more interesting. Brimstone are going to be much more valuable.
#2 Gambling as a Gold Sink
This is obviously not for everyone. It's intended to be used to sink out excess of gold. Gambling has some similarity with Crafting.
Gambling requires a hearty sum of gold
Gambled items are always at least a rare item with 4 affixes --- but there's a very small probability that is will turn into a Legendary/Set item instead.
You have no control over the affixes. It's not like "Crafting an Archon Armor of Dexterity. You don't have any guaranteed affix.
Rings and Amulets are going to be a popular choice. However, unlike the current Amulet recipe, you have no control over the stats so it's much harder to get something good out of it. However, it is not BoA so you can still trade whatever you get. The exciting part of this gamble is that you could get Legendary/Set items out of it. It's a gamble.
The problem with gold sinks is that they have to be a better investment than the AH (or else people will keep their gold and use it at the AH). Thank again the AH for that !
Another problem: since people have accumulated billions, those sinks are either really expensive and thus do nothing for the majority of people (who don't have billions), or they are cheap and the uber-rich can just abuse them. Thank again the AH for that.
You know, they could add a "Material Cost" to gambling (Imbue, or whatever it could be called). It would cost gold (which they have in excess) and materials (which they need to buy). For people to mass gamble, they would need to buy materials from the "poorer people". Less fortunate people could now make some more gold from the blue items they pick up.
It would be like Diablo 2 in some way. Rich people gamble their charm or craft specific items while the less fortunate people provide them with items that are otherwise worthless or not worth much (Gem, jewels, etc). If the price is not good enough, they would just keep the materials for themselves instead of selling. If the price is good, they will have a choice.
I mentioned the need for both item and gold sink many many times. I know that many people don't like it, but I honestly believe every healthy gaming online community needs those. No idea what the best details are, but I like the "2 for 1" part of idea #1 (or make it even 3 for 1 as in cubing amulets in D2).
1) The first idea is nice as it will somewhat slowdown inflation but in the end with bots, duping, and with the super rich you'll never balance out the economy and it will just get saturated later rather than sooner. I mainly see this as a problem for casuals as these crap rolled legendaries are how these people start getting into the low to mid MP levels. Then again maybe if self found was a reasonable option in the first place then their would be less need for the AH.
2) I don't know about you guys but gems are gold sink enough... I have yet to have the cash to make the top tier gems. As stated before gold has more value in the AH, why spend millions on something that might or barely add any additional stats when I can spend a couple million on a guaranteed improvement. Overall this seems just like another idea for the rich to have something else to do (which I'm fine with) but this gold sink will still introduce more items which kinda is counter productive to your first idea (unless you keep it BoA which would just make it pointless). I also just see this as an extension to what crafting is now since it really is just a gamble.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
1) The first idea is nice as it will somewhat slowdown inflation but in the end with bots, duping, and with the super rich you'll never balance out the economy and it will just get saturated later rather than sooner. I mainly see this as a problem for casuals as these crap rolled legendaries are how these people start getting into the low to mid MP levels. Then again maybe if self found was a reasonable option in the first place then their would be less need for the AH.
(Duping? Weren't those items the result of rollback abuse? In any case...)
If people start buying Mempo to reroll them, it's going to increase the value of even the worst rolled Mempo ever. That would mean that finding certain legendary items or set items are guaranteed gold (well, there's still the UNID market). There will be much fewer Mempo available on the AH as well since many people are going to gamble it.
In any case...
=> If you play SF, legendary items have more uses (since it is unlikely that you ever find a legendary plan that requires brimstone).
=> If you find a desirable legendary, even the worst possible roll is going to be worth a lot of gold (relative).
=> You can now try and "gamble" for wealth if you are rich enough to afford it.
I can see this being beneficial for the economy and for SF players. It takes dozens attempts, if not more, to get something desirable. If you start rolling Skull Grasp or Mara's... well, it might take you hundred of tries to get your Zombie Dog with CHC/CHD or ASI.
2) I don't know about you guys but gems are gold sink enough... I have yet to have the cash to make the top tier gems. As stated before gold has more value in the AH, why spend millions on something that might or barely add any additional stats when I can spend a couple million on a guaranteed improvement. Overall this seems just like another idea for the rich to have something else to do (which I'm fine with) but this gold sink will still introduce more items which kinda is counter productive to your first idea (unless you keep it BoA which would just make it pointless). I also just see this as an extension to what crafting is now since it really is just a gamble.
Well, I find the current gold sink (gem) as boring. At least with gamble, you can never truly know what you are going to get.
I don't see this being counterproductive to my first proposition. Most of the gambled items are going to be bad. They are going to be salvaged. Same with Legendary/Set items you gamble. Some will be salvaged and others will be rerolled.
In the end, the materials generated from the gambling will be used on Crafting and rerolling. Gold is being sink.
(Duping? Weren't those items the result of rollback abuse? In any case...)
If people start buying Mempo to reroll them, it's going to increase the value of even the worst rolled Mempo ever. That would mean that finding certain legendary items or set items are guaranteed gold (well, there's still the UNID market). There will be much fewer Mempo available on the AH as well since many people are going to gamble it.
In any case...
=> If you play SF, legendary items have more uses (since it is unlikely that you ever find a legendary plan that requires brimstone).
=> If you find a desirable legendary, even the worst possible roll is going to be worth a lot of gold (relative).
=> You can now try and "gamble" for wealth if you are rich enough to afford it.
I can see this being beneficial for the economy and for SF players. It takes dozens attempts, if not more, to get something desirable. If you start rolling Skull Grasp or Mara's... well, it might take you hundred of tries to get your Zombie Dog with CHC/CHD or ASI.
Well, I find the current gold sink (gem) as boring. At least with gamble, you can never truly know what you are going to get.
I don't see this being counterproductive to my first proposition. Most of the gambled items are going to be bad. They are going to be salvaged. Same with Legendary/Set items you gamble. Some will be salvaged and others will be rerolled.
In the end, the materials generated from the gambling will be used on Crafting and rerolling. Gold is being sink.
The rollback didn't catch or fix everything. This isn't fact but it's silly to assume blizzard fixed everything, in any case bots are bad enough.
You just agreed to the issue of my point. This will increase the cost of everything making it harder for "casuals" to obtain any gear since it is all used up or costs more. Until finding loot becomes reasonable for a SF perspective this is just a band-aid that will eventually lead to re-saturating the market with the same amount of items (just higher stats and higher prices). Basically the rich buy it all up, make their perfect items then sell what new found legendaries for hundreds of millions instead of hundreds of thousands because the market has more demand compared to supply (worse case scenario that I think would be very likely).
I get how from a SF perspective this idea this has potential, but considering how often the same legendaries drop (assuming 4 legs and hour if your farming MP faceroll 10) + how bad the rolls generally are + trying to reroll with how bad the rolls generally are = I still have crap
I like your idea (making found items more worthwhile rather than dropping things in the AH for more gold) but I don't see how will improve the game except add 6 months to the game for something else to do while we wait for patch 1.09.
From the bigger picture I suppose your right it doesn't add too many items to the market but what exists now is exactly what your suggesting (except it's cheaper and you don't get legendaries out of it). I craft items (mainly BoA's) in hopes of something better and what I get as junk I just salvage. What your suggesting isn't more fun its the same thing except with inflated numbers (more cost less reward). If we add Gheed back as an NPC would this make your gold sink more enjoyable?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
You just agreed to the issue of my point. This will increase the cost of everything making it harder for "casuals" to obtain any gear since it is all used up or costs more. Until finding loot becomes reasonable for a SF perspective this is just a band-aid that will eventually lead to re-saturating the market with the same amount of items (just higher stats and higher prices). Basically the rich buy it all up, make their perfect items then sell what new found legendaries for hundreds of millions instead of hundreds of thousands because the market has more demand compared to supply (worse case scenario that I think would be very likely).
Oh, I took into consideration a few things that I did not mention. A while ago, Blizzard (Travis Day I believe) stated that they would like to have certain monsters drop (increased %) specific items (Butcher dropping the Butcher's Carver or something). While the cost of heavily sought items will increase, it also means that finding Legendary items that would allow you to clear the game would be easier.
This is purely speculation, but what if the "First Kill" on Butcher greatly increased your chance of getting it? From a self found perspective, killing bosses or certain monsters could give you enough to clear Inferno MP0. To finish the game, you would not need the AH. If you want to become much stronger, you always have the AH option (or trade) or keep farming those boss to get "better" rolls. Those items are by no means intended to be BoA --- they are enough to give you the ability to farm Inferno (low MP) with respectable efficiency.
They also stated that they wanted to have Low level legendary dropping in Inferno. One would assume that their stats would be made competitive with other legendary items. There's going to be a lot more options.
I'm not sure if this answered your concern.
My idea is certainly not perfect. It allows people to get more gold from otherwise "trash" legendary. That extra gold can be spent inside the game itself (crafting, gambling, etc).
I get how from a SF perspective this idea this has potential, but considering how often the same legendaries drop (assuming 4 legs and hour if your farming MP faceroll 10) + how bad the rolls generally are + trying to reroll with how bad the rolls generally are = I still have crap
Well, they talked about reducing the gap for affix. Instead of rolling between 90-200 Dexterity, it could become 170-200 or something (they really need to get rid of that 90-100 or 170-200 on legendary items). I would assume that weapons are going to get the same treatment (closer rolls for damage modifier affix).
While it is still random, the potential of being good is much better.
I like your idea (making found items more worthwhile rather than dropping things in the AH for more gold) but I don't see how will improve the game except add 6 months to the game for something else to do while we wait for patch 1.09.
I would certainly hope that this comes out with or after itemization 2.0. We knows, we might even be rerolling legendary to get better rolls instead of better affix (example, you reroll magefist be cause you want higher Fire Skill bonus).
After the itemization, I really hope that they focus on randomization (random events!) and end game A good itemization will bring life back into the game --- but it's going to be futile if there's nothing to do with those items. I know that Diablo is about finding loots, but I feel it's time to add a purpose to those loots, whether it is PvP in the Arena or PvE challenges.
From the bigger picture I suppose your right it doesn't add too many items to the market but what exists now is exactly what your suggesting (except it's cheaper and you don't get legendaries out of it). I craft items (mainly BoA's) in hopes of something better and what I get as junk I just salvage. What your suggesting isn't more fun its the same thing except with inflated numbers (more cost less reward). If we add Gheed back as an NPC would this make your gold sink more enjoyable?
Um, well, I would find "rerolling" items such as Skull Grasp much more exciting (assuming that they finally make it roll logically --- no more Strength and WD bonus combo). Will I get my Zombie dog? 1/58 chance to get it! Now, if the item itself is already good, it would be a great item to reroll because 1/58 is not impossible.
As for gambling, I guess if "crafted" items could become legendary, it would be kind of cool. Crafting Archon Gloves of Strength? Bam, IK gloves instead.
The current goldsink can still be improved to make it more fun.
Bring. Back. Gheed.
You buy a sword, it might turn out to be a blue, it might turn out to be a Grandfather. Fun, fun, fun.
Rings, Circlets and Amulets mostly It all comes down to "can the gambled item be good" and "is it worth it". If the cost is too high, people won't use it. If the cost is too low, people are going to spam it.
It's probably sarcastic, but I don't know anyone who gambled sword for GF in Diablo 2 :-/
Your additions on boss "specific" loot and post patch 1.0.9 make a lot more sense. Thank you. I just find it hard to speculate past itemization as were not 100% sure what Blizzard will do, we have an idea how to make things much better but what they come out with could be entirely different.
I agree there can always be more fun ways to do things. I'm just trying to point out what has been suggested isn't much different that whats available. I think adding Gheed and having the same D2 mechanics would be more sufficient
EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say about 1.0.9 is it has the potential to fix a lot so it's hard to suggest improvements to a system that "may" not be broken or as broken.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I like the possibility of both ideas. I have found many echoing fury's and they aren't that great. It would be pretty sweet to know I could possibly craft a better one. At that point I would rather see it BOA though, that's just my opinion. I think most of you guys agree and are spot on, gambling would be fun. The gold sink for gems is a long freaking road.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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#1 Rerolling Legendary/Set items as an Item Sink
When we head to the AH, we see pages after pages of Legendary items. Most of them are never going to be sold. The only "legendary/set item" sink we have is salvage, but there isn't many things to do with those materials. It's time to add another item sink.
Let's say you want to reroll a Mempo. To reroll, you will need...
#2 Gambling as a Gold Sink
This is obviously not for everyone. It's intended to be used to sink out excess of gold. Gambling has some similarity with Crafting.
You know, they could add a "Material Cost" to gambling (Imbue, or whatever it could be called). It would cost gold (which they have in excess) and materials (which they need to buy). For people to mass gamble, they would need to buy materials from the "poorer people". Less fortunate people could now make some more gold from the blue items they pick up.
It would be like Diablo 2 in some way. Rich people gamble their charm or craft specific items while the less fortunate people provide them with items that are otherwise worthless or not worth much (Gem, jewels, etc). If the price is not good enough, they would just keep the materials for themselves instead of selling. If the price is good, they will have a choice.
I mentioned the need for both item and gold sink many many times. I know that many people don't like it, but I honestly believe every healthy gaming online community needs those. No idea what the best details are, but I like the "2 for 1" part of idea #1 (or make it even 3 for 1 as in cubing amulets in D2).
2) I don't know about you guys but gems are gold sink enough... I have yet to have the cash to make the top tier gems. As stated before gold has more value in the AH, why spend millions on something that might or barely add any additional stats when I can spend a couple million on a guaranteed improvement. Overall this seems just like another idea for the rich to have something else to do (which I'm fine with) but this gold sink will still introduce more items which kinda is counter productive to your first idea (unless you keep it BoA which would just make it pointless). I also just see this as an extension to what crafting is now since it really is just a gamble.
(Duping? Weren't those items the result of rollback abuse? In any case...)
If people start buying Mempo to reroll them, it's going to increase the value of even the worst rolled Mempo ever. That would mean that finding certain legendary items or set items are guaranteed gold (well, there's still the UNID market). There will be much fewer Mempo available on the AH as well since many people are going to gamble it.
In any case...
=> If you play SF, legendary items have more uses (since it is unlikely that you ever find a legendary plan that requires brimstone).
=> If you find a desirable legendary, even the worst possible roll is going to be worth a lot of gold (relative).
=> You can now try and "gamble" for wealth if you are rich enough to afford it.
I can see this being beneficial for the economy and for SF players. It takes dozens attempts, if not more, to get something desirable. If you start rolling Skull Grasp or Mara's... well, it might take you hundred of tries to get your Zombie Dog with CHC/CHD or ASI.
Well, I find the current gold sink (gem) as boring. At least with gamble, you can never truly know what you are going to get.
I don't see this being counterproductive to my first proposition. Most of the gambled items are going to be bad. They are going to be salvaged. Same with Legendary/Set items you gamble. Some will be salvaged and others will be rerolled.
In the end, the materials generated from the gambling will be used on Crafting and rerolling. Gold is being sink.
The rollback didn't catch or fix everything. This isn't fact but it's silly to assume blizzard fixed everything, in any case bots are bad enough.
You just agreed to the issue of my point. This will increase the cost of everything making it harder for "casuals" to obtain any gear since it is all used up or costs more. Until finding loot becomes reasonable for a SF perspective this is just a band-aid that will eventually lead to re-saturating the market with the same amount of items (just higher stats and higher prices). Basically the rich buy it all up, make their perfect items then sell what new found legendaries for hundreds of millions instead of hundreds of thousands because the market has more demand compared to supply (worse case scenario that I think would be very likely).
I get how from a SF perspective this idea this has potential, but considering how often the same legendaries drop (assuming 4 legs and hour if your farming MP faceroll 10) + how bad the rolls generally are + trying to reroll with how bad the rolls generally are = I still have crap
I like your idea (making found items more worthwhile rather than dropping things in the AH for more gold) but I don't see how will improve the game except add 6 months to the game for something else to do while we wait for patch 1.09.
From the bigger picture I suppose your right it doesn't add too many items to the market but what exists now is exactly what your suggesting (except it's cheaper and you don't get legendaries out of it). I craft items (mainly BoA's) in hopes of something better and what I get as junk I just salvage. What your suggesting isn't more fun its the same thing except with inflated numbers (more cost less reward). If we add Gheed back as an NPC would this make your gold sink more enjoyable?
Obviously, during the RMAH fiasco, I still think a complete rollback was in order. In any case, what's done is done.
Oh, I took into consideration a few things that I did not mention. A while ago, Blizzard (Travis Day I believe) stated that they would like to have certain monsters drop (increased %) specific items (Butcher dropping the Butcher's Carver or something). While the cost of heavily sought items will increase, it also means that finding Legendary items that would allow you to clear the game would be easier.
This is purely speculation, but what if the "First Kill" on Butcher greatly increased your chance of getting it? From a self found perspective, killing bosses or certain monsters could give you enough to clear Inferno MP0. To finish the game, you would not need the AH. If you want to become much stronger, you always have the AH option (or trade) or keep farming those boss to get "better" rolls. Those items are by no means intended to be BoA --- they are enough to give you the ability to farm Inferno (low MP) with respectable efficiency.
They also stated that they wanted to have Low level legendary dropping in Inferno. One would assume that their stats would be made competitive with other legendary items. There's going to be a lot more options.
I'm not sure if this answered your concern.
My idea is certainly not perfect. It allows people to get more gold from otherwise "trash" legendary. That extra gold can be spent inside the game itself (crafting, gambling, etc).
Well, they talked about reducing the gap for affix. Instead of rolling between 90-200 Dexterity, it could become 170-200 or something (they really need to get rid of that 90-100 or 170-200 on legendary items). I would assume that weapons are going to get the same treatment (closer rolls for damage modifier affix).
While it is still random, the potential of being good is much better.
I would certainly hope that this comes out with or after itemization 2.0. We knows, we might even be rerolling legendary to get better rolls instead of better affix (example, you reroll magefist be cause you want higher Fire Skill bonus).
After the itemization, I really hope that they focus on randomization (random events!) and end game A good itemization will bring life back into the game --- but it's going to be futile if there's nothing to do with those items. I know that Diablo is about finding loots, but I feel it's time to add a purpose to those loots, whether it is PvP in the Arena or PvE challenges.
Um, well, I would find "rerolling" items such as Skull Grasp much more exciting (assuming that they finally make it roll logically --- no more Strength and WD bonus combo). Will I get my Zombie dog? 1/58 chance to get it! Now, if the item itself is already good, it would be a great item to reroll because 1/58 is not impossible.
As for gambling, I guess if "crafted" items could become legendary, it would be kind of cool. Crafting Archon Gloves of Strength? Bam, IK gloves instead.
The current goldsink can still be improved to make it more fun.
Rings, Circlets and Amulets mostly It all comes down to "can the gambled item be good" and "is it worth it". If the cost is too high, people won't use it. If the cost is too low, people are going to spam it.
It's probably sarcastic, but I don't know anyone who gambled sword for GF in Diablo 2 :-/
Your additions on boss "specific" loot and post patch 1.0.9 make a lot more sense. Thank you. I just find it hard to speculate past itemization as were not 100% sure what Blizzard will do, we have an idea how to make things much better but what they come out with could be entirely different.
I agree there can always be more fun ways to do things. I'm just trying to point out what has been suggested isn't much different that whats available. I think adding Gheed and having the same D2 mechanics would be more sufficient
EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say about 1.0.9 is it has the potential to fix a lot so it's hard to suggest improvements to a system that "may" not be broken or as broken.