Not sure about that but I think that there SHOULD be a difference since Rare mobs can be more annoying to fight than Champions and they have a A LOT of health. Not to mention the occasional Extra Health adding insult to injury.
Life Link is Champion only but it can be annoying to deal with. Especially on Ranged mobs.
As for epic Rare combos: Plagued + Horde + Frozen + Arcane = Fun Times!! =D
Rare's have far greater potential for creating duress. I gotta say, the one affix that makes me stop and think is Vortex when paired with any of the high-end damage dealing affixes. When horde-minions all have arcanes, shit gets real unnecessary. Good fun though.
Has anyone else noticed that some rare minions only have 1 or 2 affixes while others have a full set? What is the explanation for this?
Rare's have far greater potential for creating duress. I gotta say, the one affix that makes me stop and think is Vortex when paired with any of the high-end damage dealing affixes. When horde-minions all have arcanes, shit gets real unnecessary. Good fun though.
Has anyone else noticed that some rare minions only have 1 or 2 affixes while others have a full set? What is the explanation for this?
I was also wondering about that. It gets ridiculous when they have stupid affixes like Vortex and Arcane. I remember fighting a pack that had stacked 3 Arcane Sentries on top of each other at a specific spot and I tried to reposition myself a little further. A mere second after I started moving, I got Vortex RIGHT ON TOP of the stacked sentries! Needless to say, I melted in seconds! =P That ticked me off so much.
lol...I cannot count the times that's happened. I'm pounding my Serenity button as hard as I can, knowing damn well that it's in cooldown.
Has anyone else noticed that some rare minions only have 1 or 2 affixes while others have a full set? What is the explanation for this?
There are certain affixes, for rares, that only apply to the "master" and not to the minions. If you have a rare with Frozen, for example, the "master" casts that spell. Arcane, however, is granted to all of them because, obviously, one arcane beam isn't difficult to dodge, but Horde + Arcane makes shit get real fast.
I believe the rationale for this is that something like Horde + Frozen or Horde + Jailer would get absurdly messy if the minions could cast Frozen/Jailer to the point of being brutally difficult compared to other rare affix combinations.
Hello, is there a difference in drop rates between champions (blue mobs) and rares (yellow mobs)? Thanks
No, absolutely not. I've killed plenty of blues and yellows in my time in Sanctuary thusfar and I can say with absolute certainty that there's nothing that ever caused me to believe they had different drop rates.
Not sure about that but I think that there SHOULD be a difference since Rare mobs can be more annoying to fight than Champions and they have a A LOT of health. Not to mention the occasional Extra Health adding insult to injury.
The difference between a champion and a rare is that the rare has one monster that's stronger and a bunch of weaker minions. Obvious strategy against a rare is to kill the minions quickly and then deal with the main guy. Champions have three equally-powerful monsters.
I'm 99% sure that if you add up the HPs of the rare + minions (without horde, extra health affixes) that you end up with roughly the same number of HPs as if you added up the HPs of the three champions. Obviously this assumes the same monster power, same monster type. you're really burning through the same total amount of HPs, or pretty close to it. The only difference is how it's distributed.
For me, the worst are runners (occultists, spearmen, shaman, wretched mothers, etc.) with health link or extra health and fast. The occultists are particularly brutal because of the fact that they shield themselves.
Nope. HP is still greater for Rare packs, even in total. And besides, that's just numbers; you can test it by playing and see that it takes longer. With AoE attacks you can finish off the 3 or 4 Champions in less time than the Rare leader and the minions together.
I don't recall saying that rares didn't, generally, take longer to kill. Of course they do due to how things work in Diablo. What I did say was that being able to burn down the relatively-weak minions (thereby easily reducing the number of plagued puddles, arcane beams, completely eliminating shielding, etc.) provides for a far different tactical approach.
I know that some people will only measure "difficulty" in terms of how many seconds it takes to kill a monster, but that's a very one-dimensional approach that I simply don't believe in. I'm sorry that you had to take 10 more seconds to kill that rare guy, but that doesn't actually mean he's harder. The tradeoff was that you got to completely eliminate all threats from the OTHER guys far faster thus making it a much less-dangerous fight.
Nope. HP is still greater for Rare packs, even in total. And besides, that's just numbers; you can test it by playing and see that it takes longer. With AoE attacks you can finish off the 3 or 4 Champions in less time than the Rare leader and the minions together.
Because pure AoE attacks that can hit the entire screen are all we use in every single build, right? And ranged Elites don't ever appear (and move in different directions) right?
I don't recall saying that rares didn't, generally, take longer to kill. Of course they do due to how things work in Diablo. What I did say was that being able to burn down the relatively-weak minions (thereby easily reducing the number of plagued puddles, arcane beams, completely eliminating shielding, etc.) provides for a far different tactical approach.
I know that some people will only measure "difficulty" in terms of how many seconds it takes to kill a monster, but that's a very one-dimensional approach that I simply don't believe in. I'm sorry that you had to take 10 more seconds to kill that rare guy, but that doesn't actually mean he's harder. The tradeoff was that you got to completely eliminate all threats from the OTHER guys far faster thus making it a much less-dangerous fight.
You said roughly the same amount of HP which of course is not the case. And you implied that the groups should take roughly the same amount of time to kill.
Minions have a little less HP than Champions so it's more or less the same in terms of dispatching them. And who said anything about "difficutly" and time being a major factor?
But since you brought it up, yes, time IS a factor in difficulty because the longer you spend fighting mobs that can potentially kill you the more likely you are to die due to a mistake, unfavorable circumstances or random lag spikes that can screw you up.
I could go on but this is fairly pointless to discuss so I'm not going to continue.
You need a lot less overall resources to kill the minions from a Rare pack than you'll ever need in a Champion pack. Granted the way most classes are specced out today, resources don't even matter (infinite resources/spam are a part of most builds), but it still matters for classes like the DH or WD.
Champions can also have Shielding, Avenger, Illusionist or be ranged and have Health Link, whereas Rares can't. Those affixes can considerably increase the amount of time it takes to kill those (specially if paired with Knockback, Nightmarish and Teleporter/Fast).
Ranged Rare packs usually come with a ton of weak melee mobs. It's infinitely easier and faster to kill a Shaman with a couple fallen than it is to kill 4 Shamans with Shielding (and Teleport/Nightmarish/Electrified).
I'm not even going into how some classes can make great usage of the minions to keep their mechanics going strong (Archon, CMWW, WotB:ToC) and heal a lot more than if they were hitting 1-2 champions.
Again, as shaggy said, it depends a lot on affixes and which class/build you're running - and yes, rounding things out means that Rares/Champs take roughly the same amount of time to kill. But hey, let's round it all down to the one-dimensional "x has less health, x takes less time to kill" <_<
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Season 7 Hardcore Demon Huntard #14 @ GR78
Unhallowed Essence Multishot Guide
Rare's have far greater potential for creating duress. I gotta say, the one affix that makes me stop and think is Vortex when paired with any of the high-end damage dealing affixes. When horde-minions all have arcanes, shit gets real unnecessary. Good fun though.
Has anyone else noticed that some rare minions only have 1 or 2 affixes while others have a full set? What is the explanation for this?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
lol...I cannot count the times that's happened. I'm pounding my Serenity button as hard as I can, knowing damn well that it's in cooldown.
*bzzzzzzzap game ovah
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
There are certain affixes, for rares, that only apply to the "master" and not to the minions. If you have a rare with Frozen, for example, the "master" casts that spell. Arcane, however, is granted to all of them because, obviously, one arcane beam isn't difficult to dodge, but Horde + Arcane makes shit get real fast.
I believe the rationale for this is that something like Horde + Frozen or Horde + Jailer would get absurdly messy if the minions could cast Frozen/Jailer to the point of being brutally difficult compared to other rare affix combinations.
No, absolutely not. I've killed plenty of blues and yellows in my time in Sanctuary thusfar and I can say with absolute certainty that there's nothing that ever caused me to believe they had different drop rates.
The difference between a champion and a rare is that the rare has one monster that's stronger and a bunch of weaker minions. Obvious strategy against a rare is to kill the minions quickly and then deal with the main guy. Champions have three equally-powerful monsters.
I'm 99% sure that if you add up the HPs of the rare + minions (without horde, extra health affixes) that you end up with roughly the same number of HPs as if you added up the HPs of the three champions. Obviously this assumes the same monster power, same monster type. you're really burning through the same total amount of HPs, or pretty close to it. The only difference is how it's distributed.
For me, the worst are runners (occultists, spearmen, shaman, wretched mothers, etc.) with health link or extra health and fast. The occultists are particularly brutal because of the fact that they shield themselves.
I don't recall saying that rares didn't, generally, take longer to kill. Of course they do due to how things work in Diablo. What I did say was that being able to burn down the relatively-weak minions (thereby easily reducing the number of plagued puddles, arcane beams, completely eliminating shielding, etc.) provides for a far different tactical approach.
I know that some people will only measure "difficulty" in terms of how many seconds it takes to kill a monster, but that's a very one-dimensional approach that I simply don't believe in. I'm sorry that you had to take 10 more seconds to kill that rare guy, but that doesn't actually mean he's harder. The tradeoff was that you got to completely eliminate all threats from the OTHER guys far faster thus making it a much less-dangerous fight.
You need a lot less overall resources to kill the minions from a Rare pack than you'll ever need in a Champion pack. Granted the way most classes are specced out today, resources don't even matter (infinite resources/spam are a part of most builds), but it still matters for classes like the DH or WD.
Champions can also have Shielding, Avenger, Illusionist or be ranged and have Health Link, whereas Rares can't. Those affixes can considerably increase the amount of time it takes to kill those (specially if paired with Knockback, Nightmarish and Teleporter/Fast).
Ranged Rare packs usually come with a ton of weak melee mobs. It's infinitely easier and faster to kill a Shaman with a couple fallen than it is to kill 4 Shamans with Shielding (and Teleport/Nightmarish/Electrified).
I'm not even going into how some classes can make great usage of the minions to keep their mechanics going strong (Archon, CMWW, WotB:ToC) and heal a lot more than if they were hitting 1-2 champions.
Again, as shaggy said, it depends a lot on affixes and which class/build you're running - and yes, rounding things out means that Rares/Champs take roughly the same amount of time to kill. But hey, let's round it all down to the one-dimensional "x has less health, x takes less time to kill" <_<