Today I was looking for an upgrade of my manticore and noticed several top end manticores for sale that had 2,3, and 4 of each of them at different prices. This kind of behavior is very discouraging and will ruin the economy. Only a few people will get rich while the rest of us suffer. How can this be fixed ? Does anyone care ? This is exactly the kind of thing that will cause me to quit playing. It's sad because I feel with every patch blizz releases only makes the game better.
Duping has been going on since last year, yet Blizzard has still yet to do anything about it.
"Yet to do anything about it".....that's based on what? The fact that you have no idea whatsoever exactly what they've done about it?
This thread title "duping gone crazy" is a bit misleading. What we see here is nothing new. An isolated, very small handful of rolled back dupes popping up sporadically.
I'm pretty certain that dupers don't do it as a personal favor to the gaming community in an effort to improve that average player's item quality.
Also, I'm pretty sure that 'several' instances of rollback-duping doesn't qualify as 'gone crazy'. When there's a page of identical quad rings... that's duping gone crazy.
Well maybe if good weapons would drop more often people wouldn't need to dupe ? Just a thought.
WHAT?
Are you joking?
So it's Blizzards fault that so many gamers are selfish little cheaters whom screw the system over?
That is not a very good thought you had. Think again.
its a very good point to be fair.
specifically regarding weapons since this is where the bulk of our DPS is made up, it would seem in my experience that weapons and the stats required to make them at least half way decent are weighted towards being poor rather than being truly random. if it was true randomness then you would see good DPS on weapons as much as you would see poor DPS.
No...no no no no....he did not make a good point. Ironically, what he said was one of the worst attempts at "making a point" I have ever heard.
"Maybe if good weapons dropped more often people wouldn't dupe"..... isn't just a foolish statement. This attitude reflects much of whats wrong with young players on the realms. Straight up greedy sense of entitlement.
People dupe out of greed, not necessity. No matter what D3's itemization template reflected, people will still rollback dupe if they think they can get away with it, period, point blank....
And allow me to explain the subtleties of RNG to you. There is a random chance to roll any number within a given range, however, the higher numbers have a lesser chance of rolling in the RNG....i.e albeit random, the chances of rolling 90 dex on an amulet (for example) are far greater than the chances of rolling 325 dex.
Ruksak, shoudn't you be denying duping is happening? Your thread derailing ability is pretty good but I think you used to be better at damage control...
I have no idea what you mean?
I never denied that duping occurred. I denied that; A: It was prevalent B: That it was being done in some other way than rollback scams.
You remember when Mannercookie came in here razing the false alarm? He insisted upon three talking points, all three of which I strongly disagreed with.
He claimed;
1) Dupes were "Rampant" (his exact word).
2) People had figured out how to dupe in-game, server side
3) Blizzard didn't care, and was most likely creating these dupes themselves for profit, or, turning a blind eye to dupes because of the profit potential.
Now, 2-3 months later, it seems apparent that I was 100% correct and he was 100% wrong on all three charges.
1) Dupes are still appearing only a few at a time, isolated incidents.
2) There is still no evidence at all that there is any in-game, server side technique to duplicate items. The evidence available actually shows proof to the contrary.
3) Blizzard acknowledged the issue and seems to have done well to control it. As well, toward point 3, they have introduced a wide spectrum of BoA items that show no profit potential for Blizzard after the fact.
Duping has been going on since last year, yet Blizzard has still yet to do anything about it.
"Yet to do anything about it".....that's based on what? The fact that you have no idea whatsoever exactly what they've done about it?
This thread title "duping gone crazy" is a bit misleading. What we see here is nothing new. An isolated, very small handful of rolled back dupes popping up sporadically.
Me thinks some of you are a bit dramatic.
By the fact that it's still going on? How was my post dramatic? All I stated was that duping has been present since last year, and Blizzard has yet to do anything about it, because it's still happening. They've even yet to acknowledge it. Nothing dramatic about that, just the facts, sir.
Flexy: people are paying these prices, otherwise items wouldn't have that price tag. I personally know people who paid close to 1 billion for an item, and there are some people on these forums who were willing to pay even more for a slight DPS increase. You're absolutely right that 99% or even 99.9% can't afford any of these, but these items are also the top 0.001% of possible rolls you can have on an item, hence the price.
All of what you said is based on the assumption that the 2bn auctions don't sell, which is just a false assumption.
By the fact that it's still going on? How was my post dramatic? All I stated was that duping has been present since last year, and Blizzard has yet to do anything about it, because it's still happening. They've even yet to acknowledge it. Nothing dramatic about that, just the facts, sir.
Because it's still going on, does not suggest that they aren't doing anything about it. Please explain to me, exactly, what reason you have to believe that Blizzard has done nothing about it? Because it still occurs? The one thing they can do to definitively shut it down is to deny people the oft times game-saving measure of an account roll-back.
Aside from that, they are most assuredly doing what they can, as this issue stands to gain them NOTHING while compromising the integrity of their game.
You're committing what's known as a logical fallacy by insisting because it still occurs, they must not be doing anything about it. I tried for near 2 months to track down an electrical issue in my Jeep. I tried and tried, threw money at it, still, the issue persisted. Here is an example of a problem persisting even though I tried to fix it.
Duping has been going on since last year, yet Blizzard has still yet to do anything about it.
With all that said, you both have basically proven that Blizzard has been doing something about the duping since the duping has been going on since last year and the games economy has yet to be ruined. I would say that if Blizzard was doing nothing then the economy would be ruined but the simple fact that the economy is not ruined proves that Blizzard is doing something about it. Just because you do not see a huge change being made to prevent duping does not mean that nothing is being done. Bans have taken place and considering the number of items on the AH compared to those that are dupes, well the ratio is in huge contrast to the doom and gloom you are spreading.
I am sorry but I am with the people that believe that computer programing does not hide any mysteries
I'd have to ask what are your qualifications within the realm of coding and software programming?
surely employes that coded the whole thing would have brought a garanted working fix to what have been abused since last year, providing they were ever asked to work on it.
Ahhh...the proverbial magic bullet!!! Again, what exactly are your qualifications to speak on this end of programming logistics?
So there you have it, the reason people can come up with the thought that blizzard is either incapable and incompetent or are simply not willing to correct this problem.
This issue is not a brush-fire epidemic. We see sporadic, isolated postings which display a few duplicate items listed via the AH. What is important here is what you do not see.
You do not see a single instance of any of these isolated examples lasting for very long at all. What we do not see are these items staying up for a significant amount of time.
What we do not see are the punitive measures taken against the offenders.
I hope you are paid to correct all the bad behaviors and bad thoughts users of this forum could ever have.
That sounds like the sort of comment which begats honest conversation.
Your opinion on this matter is tainted by your bias of hate toward this game. How could one expect an honest, objective comment to come out of your mouth while you make it so obvious that you have a bitter hate-agenda? Even your avatar.....your signature, both utilized as opportunities to take a dig at the game you espouse so much hatred for. Your every post is a move intended to volley spite at that which you hate.
Your opinion is insignificant and should be avoided. Anyone reading your posts should consider the source.
Duping is here, and so are you. I hope you are paid to correct all the bad behaviors and bad thoughts users of this forum could ever have.
That's the argument of a person who has no argument.
"You disagree with me, therefore Blizzard pays you to post on the interwebz forums."
God forbid that there is no evidence to support that duping is "rampant" or "gone crazy." That's ridiculous right? it destroys your illusion that everything Blizzard does is a fuck-up, so you can't stand to deal with that reality and have to fight vhemently against anything, no matter how factual it is, that would perpetrate that idea.
You do know where the dupes are currently coming from, right?
The way you keep talking about "their servers" and such doesn't make me think that you know how most, if not all, items are currently being duped. That would lead me to assert that your opinion on the subject is meaningless.
Hint: it's an exploit in policy, not in the "code" of the game.
There is a random chance to roll any number within a given range, however, the higher numbers have a lesser chance of rolling in the RNG....i.e albeit random, the chances of rolling 90 dex on an amulet (for example) are far greater than the chances of rolling 325 dex.
This is only true, because 325 dex needs 2 affixes. If you have 1 dexterity affix, which adds 50-200 dex, it is just as likely to roll 50 dex as it is to roll 200 dex (or 143 dex or 89 dex or whatever). However to reach 300 dex, the item needs to roll a 2nd affix containing dex, which also needs to roll a high value. So the RNG does not inherently prefer low numbers over high ones (or bad stats over good stats for that matter), its just that the best items need several rolls to align, which makes them so rare.
An item with exeptionally low amounts of melee damage reflection, life regeneration and gold find is just about as rare as an item with exceptionally high amounts of attackspeed, critchance and critdamage, its just that nobody cares for the first one so nobody keeps track of it.
Thanks, shaggy. Was just about to write that. (+1)
And obviously they have no idea where the dupes are coming from. They should dig up the old duping threads that came up every few weeks where it was explained at length.
Do I know how to dupe? I don't know, do you? Would could discover that better than...blizzard? You they would use the chance to have everyone connected to THEIR servers, using THEIR game, compiled with THEIR code. Or maybe the game has just gone out of control.
Maybe that's why it keeps happening. IDK you tell, you are the smart one around here.
Dupes have nothing to do with the codebase. Dupes are created by Blizzard through account restorations because people claim to have been hacked. It's called "customer service". On Asian servers they already made restored items BoA, I don't know why they haven't done that on EU/US yet, probably because there are just such a small number of dupes.
Anyways, please search the forums, this has been discussed at length a hundred times.
Picture each thread being a path where a duped item finds its way into the hands of another player.
At each junction between the threads is a player who decides to dupe the item or sell it on the AH to another player.
For the next player who buys the item, he either dupes it or resells it to another player.
Now how can we find out who duped the item and who sold the item legitimately? How on earth are we going to figure out where the initial dupe came from?
It all falls upon the current rollback exploit which is the reason why dupes are easily done the way they are. In fact, each account gets up to two rollbacks, so technically one item can be duped twice and sold off in two different directions where the two items then become four, then eight, and so forth. You can't track that. Unless Blizzard has some kind of hidden method of recording an item's lifetime in the game (which I doubt), they won't be able to figure out where one particular item originated.
Unless the rollback policy is changed, we're not going to see an end to dupes. There are some players that are buying the duped weapons for significantly lower prices to take them off the market. I personally grabbed one of the int Echoing Furies that was marked at 750M (yes, after discussing the matter with some people, I went against my personal policy of avoiding dupes) with the intent to 1) boost my personal stats, and 2) save similar items from being crapped on because of all the undercut duped item prices.
One of my top wizard friends considered gathering a bunch of players to buy out all the duped items and just keep them for ourselves so the market wouldn't be skewed by "cheaper-than-normal" prices. It's like an anti-hero role. Some people think the dupes are doing everyone a favor by offering top-tier items for low prices. Some people think dupes aren't legit and thus shouldn't be used at all. That's a whole other argument.
The economy was the ruined the moment the community heard that there would be no ladder on release
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
"Yet to do anything about it".....that's based on what? The fact that you have no idea whatsoever exactly what they've done about it?
This thread title "duping gone crazy" is a bit misleading. What we see here is nothing new. An isolated, very small handful of rolled back dupes popping up sporadically.
Me thinks some of you are a bit dramatic.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
WHAT?
Are you joking?
So it's Blizzards fault that so many gamers are selfish little cheaters whom screw the system over?
That is not a very good thought you had. Think again.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Also, I'm pretty sure that 'several' instances of rollback-duping doesn't qualify as 'gone crazy'. When there's a page of identical quad rings... that's duping gone crazy.
No...no no no no....he did not make a good point. Ironically, what he said was one of the worst attempts at "making a point" I have ever heard.
"Maybe if good weapons dropped more often people wouldn't dupe"..... isn't just a foolish statement. This attitude reflects much of whats wrong with young players on the realms. Straight up greedy sense of entitlement.
People dupe out of greed, not necessity. No matter what D3's itemization template reflected, people will still rollback dupe if they think they can get away with it, period, point blank....
And allow me to explain the subtleties of RNG to you. There is a random chance to roll any number within a given range, however, the higher numbers have a lesser chance of rolling in the RNG....i.e albeit random, the chances of rolling 90 dex on an amulet (for example) are far greater than the chances of rolling 325 dex.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I have no idea what you mean?
I never denied that duping occurred. I denied that;
A: It was prevalent
B: That it was being done in some other way than rollback scams.
You remember when Mannercookie came in here razing the false alarm? He insisted upon three talking points, all three of which I strongly disagreed with.
He claimed;
1) Dupes were "Rampant" (his exact word).
2) People had figured out how to dupe in-game, server side
3) Blizzard didn't care, and was most likely creating these dupes themselves for profit, or, turning a blind eye to dupes because of the profit potential.
Now, 2-3 months later, it seems apparent that I was 100% correct and he was 100% wrong on all three charges.
1) Dupes are still appearing only a few at a time, isolated incidents.
2) There is still no evidence at all that there is any in-game, server side technique to duplicate items. The evidence available actually shows proof to the contrary.
3) Blizzard acknowledged the issue and seems to have done well to control it. As well, toward point 3, they have introduced a wide spectrum of BoA items that show no profit potential for Blizzard after the fact.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
All of what you said is based on the assumption that the 2bn auctions don't sell, which is just a false assumption.
Because it's still going on, does not suggest that they aren't doing anything about it. Please explain to me, exactly, what reason you have to believe that Blizzard has done nothing about it? Because it still occurs? The one thing they can do to definitively shut it down is to deny people the oft times game-saving measure of an account roll-back.
Aside from that, they are most assuredly doing what they can, as this issue stands to gain them NOTHING while compromising the integrity of their game.
You're committing what's known as a logical fallacy by insisting because it still occurs, they must not be doing anything about it. I tried for near 2 months to track down an electrical issue in my Jeep. I tried and tried, threw money at it, still, the issue persisted. Here is an example of a problem persisting even though I tried to fix it.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
With all that said, you both have basically proven that Blizzard has been doing something about the duping since the duping has been going on since last year and the games economy has yet to be ruined. I would say that if Blizzard was doing nothing then the economy would be ruined but the simple fact that the economy is not ruined proves that Blizzard is doing something about it. Just because you do not see a huge change being made to prevent duping does not mean that nothing is being done. Bans have taken place and considering the number of items on the AH compared to those that are dupes, well the ratio is in huge contrast to the doom and gloom you are spreading.
I'd have to ask what are your qualifications within the realm of coding and software programming?
Ahhh...the proverbial magic bullet!!! Again, what exactly are your qualifications to speak on this end of programming logistics?
This issue is not a brush-fire epidemic. We see sporadic, isolated postings which display a few duplicate items listed via the AH. What is important here is what you do not see.
You do not see a single instance of any of these isolated examples lasting for very long at all. What we do not see are these items staying up for a significant amount of time.
What we do not see are the punitive measures taken against the offenders.
That sounds like the sort of comment which begats honest conversation.
Your opinion on this matter is tainted by your bias of hate toward this game. How could one expect an honest, objective comment to come out of your mouth while you make it so obvious that you have a bitter hate-agenda? Even your avatar.....your signature, both utilized as opportunities to take a dig at the game you espouse so much hatred for. Your every post is a move intended to volley spite at that which you hate.
Your opinion is insignificant and should be avoided. Anyone reading your posts should consider the source.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
That's the argument of a person who has no argument.
"You disagree with me, therefore Blizzard pays you to post on the interwebz forums."
God forbid that there is no evidence to support that duping is "rampant" or "gone crazy." That's ridiculous right? it destroys your illusion that everything Blizzard does is a fuck-up, so you can't stand to deal with that reality and have to fight vhemently against anything, no matter how factual it is, that would perpetrate that idea.
The way you keep talking about "their servers" and such doesn't make me think that you know how most, if not all, items are currently being duped. That would lead me to assert that your opinion on the subject is meaningless.
Hint: it's an exploit in policy, not in the "code" of the game.
Good explanation. Thanks for clarifying my point.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
And obviously they have no idea where the dupes are coming from. They should dig up the old duping threads that came up every few weeks where it was explained at length.
Dupes have nothing to do with the codebase. Dupes are created by Blizzard through account restorations because people claim to have been hacked. It's called "customer service". On Asian servers they already made restored items BoA, I don't know why they haven't done that on EU/US yet, probably because there are just such a small number of dupes.
Anyways, please search the forums, this has been discussed at length a hundred times.
Picture each thread being a path where a duped item finds its way into the hands of another player.
At each junction between the threads is a player who decides to dupe the item or sell it on the AH to another player.
For the next player who buys the item, he either dupes it or resells it to another player.
Now how can we find out who duped the item and who sold the item legitimately? How on earth are we going to figure out where the initial dupe came from?
It all falls upon the current rollback exploit which is the reason why dupes are easily done the way they are. In fact, each account gets up to two rollbacks, so technically one item can be duped twice and sold off in two different directions where the two items then become four, then eight, and so forth. You can't track that. Unless Blizzard has some kind of hidden method of recording an item's lifetime in the game (which I doubt), they won't be able to figure out where one particular item originated.
Unless the rollback policy is changed, we're not going to see an end to dupes. There are some players that are buying the duped weapons for significantly lower prices to take them off the market. I personally grabbed one of the int Echoing Furies that was marked at 750M (yes, after discussing the matter with some people, I went against my personal policy of avoiding dupes) with the intent to 1) boost my personal stats, and 2) save similar items from being crapped on because of all the undercut duped item prices.
One of my top wizard friends considered gathering a bunch of players to buy out all the duped items and just keep them for ourselves so the market wouldn't be skewed by "cheaper-than-normal" prices. It's like an anti-hero role. Some people think the dupes are doing everyone a favor by offering top-tier items for low prices. Some people think dupes aren't legit and thus shouldn't be used at all. That's a whole other argument.
http://www.diablofan...n-a-duped-item/
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