I'm very angry at this situation myself, mates. There was duping in Diablo 2 aswell, but we had Ladder resets and what not. Without ladder resets here, things might go out of hand fast. It's sad to see how so many people try to ruin the fun for the rest of us. If this duping continues it will crash the in-game economy in no time... they won't dupe only items. You saw for yourself what happened with the gem prices.
Its scary that people cant see, that what we are seeing are rollback dupes. If players knew how to dupe, you can be guaranteed that there wouldnt be 15 or 20 with the superb Manticore. But thousands. And the fact that your blind to the edited youtube dupe videos which "shocker" source back to gold selling sites. It just makes you a ignorant, naive and general stupid person. I mean the stupidity is almost equal to the person, who gets an email saying "your grandfathers best friend from Nigeria has died, he left you 5 mill $, click the link to collect the money"
Apply a little logic and common sence to this subject. Just like Ruksak. And we'll all be fine. But its like there has gone sport into who can have the biggest tinfoil hat on, while posting on ze internetz.
Huminator, do you really think Blizz won't do something about it if those were simple rollback dupes? Before accusing others of stupidity take a look at your own point.
You make it sounds like rollback duping is simple. You can be guaranteed that blizzard do everything they can to avoid it. In my opinion they should just stop the rollback service. If you get hacked and loose your char, tough luck. Protect your account better next time. But they have chosen to give their customers the service of rollback. And for as long they have that service, you cannot prevent rollback duping happens.
Huminator, do you really think Blizz won't do something about it if those were simple rollback dupes? Before accusing others of stupidity take a look at your own point.
The rollback-scammers are the most difficult to root out. Their technique is to abuse a very important and game saving customer service feature meant to help people whom have been victimized by account theft.
The quantities we're seeing duplicates of are in lockstep with what would be expected via a rollback scam. As well, many quantities are still in stash, having not been revealed yet. So we see them trickling their way onto the market.
You got banned because you violated about 50 Terms of Use codes in your posts. Spamming, Discussing Moderation, Naming and Shaming (Not 1, but multiple people, multiple times,) Posting unconstructive threads, attention seeking titles, circumventing bans using another account, and I'm sure I've missed a few.
Blizzard knows there is a problem.
What would you like them to do about it? Remove rollbacks entirely? Adapt a 100% hands-off policy on Diablo 3 and say, "Anything that happens to your account, including compromises, is your fault and thus you have to deal with it."
Did you ever think that there isn't enough evidence to ban those who are duping? If there is proof that an account was compromised and they do a rollback and an item gets duped, is it illegal? Only if that system is exploited. But what defines exploitation? Using it once? If it does not happen on the same account over and over again, nothing can be done. If they keep using dummy accounts to dupe items, nothing can be done.
The only time I think roll-backs should be done is when your account is compromised due to lack of security on Blizzards part. As much as I don't want to, I do agree that what happens to your account other than that, is your problem. It has been this way across many different MMO's, ARPG's, and a wide variety of games. Blizzard gives you the protection (SMS protect, authenticator, your choice in password, be it strong or weak; its all up to you).
It's hard to take sides on this matter, because my account has been compromised years back on Diablo 2, and Blizzard did nothing for me albeit it was my own stupidity that let me to go to a third-party site which put my account at risk just on a friend's simple request. It was 'my' fault and I am the only one who can control if I get scammed, and how.
If there was someway of 'rolling back' while replacing the items lost for whatever reason, to use the same item ID to make it so upon recovering the item, the original where-ever it may be would be destroyed, thus recovering the item to its proper state and owner, as intended.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
You make it sounds like rollback duping is simple. You can be guaranteed that blizzard do everything they can to avoid it. In my opinion they should just stop the rollback service. If you get hacked and loose your char, tough luck. Protect your account better next time. But they have chosen to give their customers the service of rollback. And for as long they have that service, you cannot prevent rollback duping happens.
Rollback duping is possible. And yes it does not a whole lot of trouble to get the rollback. I got hacked a while back in the days 1.0.0 before I got an authenticator. Only thing I had to do is to notify the customer service, after which they asked me if I want to perform a rollback and thus loose 1 of my 2 rollbacks. I said yes, and the whole thing lasted a few days.
Dude you are so dumb... He was selling the item off of his character. Check for yourself. Equip an item. Log out, sell the item equipped from your character on the auction house. It will say that you currently have this item equipped. Sell it anyway? Say yes, and now close the auction house interface and go to your profile and inspect your character. The item still shows up on the character even though it is on the AH at the same time. You can easily see this on the video because both amulets mysteriously have 51/52 durability remaining. This is not proof of duping.
From my exprience in Diablo 2, duping wasn't 5-10 items, the exploiters would dupe the hell outta these things and would have extensive operations, the market was FLOODED in the later patchs of D2 so much so blizzard created ways for us to use duped SoJs (clone event), it was more likely to get a duped SoJ in a trade than a real one.
If this "duping" was happening and some of the "evidence" that was posted is real, you wouldn't see a few items here and there that were the same you'd see duplicates many times of the same item. They'd have duping accounts which would be fueling a game and then slave accounts to come in pick the items up and push them to the AH/Trades games/Website and then when payment is done this will be sent on to another account, now replicate this 10-20 times and oh wowza you got a chinese D2 duping operation going.
With that said it's impossible to dupe in the same way in diablo 3 as it was in diablo 2, this is precisely why they made it so the entire engine basis is on the server side. The client does little to no work hence the game being always online, which is why the only plausible way to dupe is this rollback theory people have. If the video you posted in the OP was remotely real it would involve an error in the game code, which if it was real, could be fixed quickly and would of already been fixed by blizzard..
Which brings me to my point, why are you telling us this? Does it really matter? If this is a big issue, blizzard will have to combat it, if it isn't well no skin off your nose. Getting worked up and spouting some of the language i've seen will not get you anywhere, other than as you have proved, banned. You have 3 options 1) Ignore it and let blizz deal with it 2) Figure it out for yourself and exploit it 3) Quit the game.
Do people think Blizzard is so incompotent that they would let exploiters destroy one of their flagship games with NO effort to stop them? For those of you giving examples of WoW exploits, while there are bots, most of them are killed quickly, to the point where on my highly populated server i haven't seen an active farm bot in 2 years.
Do not mistake spammers as bots, some complex macros is all that is needed to get that job done.
It's completely different in D3; Items are really unique when it comes to stats, even legendaries with the exact same stats are very hard to come by. In D2 you could dupe an SOJ because they were all the same anyway. In D3 duping an soj of the same stats to the quantity you are describing would raise even more red flags then doing just a couple at a time.
Also afaik the duping process could take awhile, and I'm not even sure if 'real' duping is happening (where item codes are being changed to re-create items). Personally the most likely cenerio is either rollbacks, and / or exploiting the bug that sometimes drops 2 + of the same exact item. This bug still exists because my buddy found two the exact same legendary triumvirates at the same time, about two weeks ago.
All the duping in the US is from rollbacks. Remember when toys r us was selling diablo 3 copies for $10 each? Well some people bought like dozens of copies. They took their really good items, and faked getting "hacked". They got a rollback and now have 2 of everything. Switch to another copy, do the same thing. Now they have 4 of everything. Again, 8 of everything, etc. I bet you are likely to see any items that are duped in multiples of 2.
I'm very angry at this situation myself, mates. There was duping in Diablo 2 aswell, but we had Ladder resets and what not. Without ladder resets here, things might go out of hand fast. It's sad to see how so many people try to ruin the fun for the rest of us. If this duping continues it will crash the in-game economy in no time... they won't dupe only items. You saw for yourself what happened with the gem prices.
I did see what happened to the gem prices and I see what they are at now. From the looks of things, Blizzard quietly fixed the issues considering that the price for gems is back to normal. I will wait and see what Blizzard does as I suspect; they too will fix this issue as quietly as they did the gem crisis.
I'm very angry at this situation myself, mates. There was duping in Diablo 2 aswell, but we had Ladder resets and what not. Without ladder resets here, things might go out of hand fast. It's sad to see how so many people try to ruin the fun for the rest of us. If this duping continues it will crash the in-game economy in no time... they won't dupe only items. You saw for yourself what happened with the gem prices.
I did see what happened to the gem prices and I see what they are at now. From the looks of things, Blizzard quietly fixed the issues considering that the price for gems is back to normal. I will wait and see what Blizzard does as I suspect; they too will fix this issue as quietly as they did the gem crisis.
Yep.
The "gem incident" is being used as proof of duping by some. When it should stand as evidence that Blizz is resolute in stomping out all forms of duplication.
this again.... and from the same op.... i'm starting to belive you actually work for one of the "selling dupe method" companies. As ruksac is trying to tell you.... again... duping without using rollback, is a myth dude! D2 showed how fast duping could get out of hand.
I don't belive there is currently such a thing.
My take on the guy (and that is evident in his stating he made mad loot from the AH) is that he was paying for rent with the money he made from D3 and is angry that some folks are duping. It's more like taking food out of his mouth or taking a roof from over his head. He claims to be passionate about the game but in the end, I suspect.... It's more passionate about the income he discovered in D3 and he could actually care less about players.
The only way Blizzard will be able to stop it is if we the players help. They would have to remove the RMAH entirely and the players would need to not buy gold from online retailers. If these people couldn't make money doing it, there would be no point to them doing it and the problem would go away.
It has to have a profit for there to be a point. Therefor;
if Profit = Point then No Profit = No Point.
I did see what happened to the gem prices and I see what they are at now. From the looks of things, Blizzard quietly fixed the issues considering that the price for gems is back to normal. I will wait and see what Blizzard does as I suspect; they too will fix this issue as quietly as they did the gem crisis.
You are right on the fact that blizzard took action. Most of the Duped item you can see on diabloprogress are now linked to deleted account or empty account. So Blizzard took action, that's for sure. But the issue didn't disapeared im pretty sure...
In my opinion (and I could be wrong...) what happened to gem prize is the simple Supply/Demand effect. Alot of people where duping the ")$()/ out of gems. The result was excesive supply in the market, driving the price extremely low. Smart players (no no not me!) realised that the market hitted the bottom price and started buying ALOT of gems to make insane profit. That brang the price back up. The market is now stabilised meaning that supply can't "supply" all the smart buyer that will instantly buy a gem that is underpriced. As long as buyer are still buying them, the market will stay stabilized. The price will stay very close to the one needed to craft them (as long as the duping method stay controlled).
The only way Blizzard will be able to stop it is if we the players help. They would have to remove the RMAH entirely and the players would need to not buy gold from online retailers. If these people couldn't make money doing it, there would be no point to them doing it and the problem would go away.
It has to have a profit for there to be a point. Therefor;
if Profit = Point then No Profit = No Point.
Stop the Duping: Occupy Sanctuary!!!
roflol
Never played Diablo 2 did you?
If they took they RMAH out of the game, they would just all flood to d2jsp, ebay, etc.
It makes perfect sense to me why these dupes aren't so widespread that the AH is flooded with them. I think people are severely underestimating the intelligence of these dupers.
1) If you were duping BiS items and then selling them on the AH for 2b gold to cash out (which is far more profitable than selling on the RMAH for $250 currently), you would be a complete idiot to put more than 1 of these items on the AH at a time. 2b items that are actually worth their price are tracked and multiple copies of the same item on the AH/RMAH would discourage legit players from buying them (would you buy an item knowing it was a dupe?). In fact, to be safe you wouldn't put duped items consecutively on the AH because it might drum up attention.
2) 2b items do not insta-sell, in fact the more expensive the item the longer it takes to sell usually. People who have this kind of gold track the same items sometimes for days. Think about it, if you're literally dropping nearly $1000 on an item, you'd better make sure it's worth the price. If we estimate it takes ~3-4 days to sell one of these 2b items on the AH then 10 of these items existing on diabloprogress means the duped item in question has been on the market for over 1 month.
3) It's very difficult to differentiate the method of duping (whether it's rollback dupes or some actual in-game technique). You'd think we could keep track of a couple of these duped items and see if their quantity increase over time (which would be a tell-tale sign that it was some in-game technique) . Unfortunately the dupers know that we can keep track of the quantity of these items so it's unlikely for them to keep selling the same items (especially since people who actually have the gold to buy these items will be discouraged knowing it's a duped item). The most we can do at this point is to keep tracking items to see if more dupes pop up. If more duped items keep popping up and their quantity is 5+ we'll know it's unlikely that they're all from roll-back dupes.
You can bet the people who are duping already had a ton of gold to begin with (hence how they could acquire such good items to dupe) and know how the AH works at that level. Therefore they would take the proper precautions to minimalize their chances of being caught or their trail being followed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Apply a little logic and common sence to this subject. Just like Ruksak. And we'll all be fine. But its like there has gone sport into who can have the biggest tinfoil hat on, while posting on ze internetz.
Currently played toon: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/97362116
Currently played toon: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/97362116
Currently played toon: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/97362116
The rollback-scammers are the most difficult to root out. Their technique is to abuse a very important and game saving customer service feature meant to help people whom have been victimized by account theft.
The quantities we're seeing duplicates of are in lockstep with what would be expected via a rollback scam. As well, many quantities are still in stash, having not been revealed yet. So we see them trickling their way onto the market.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Blizzard knows there is a problem.
What would you like them to do about it? Remove rollbacks entirely? Adapt a 100% hands-off policy on Diablo 3 and say, "Anything that happens to your account, including compromises, is your fault and thus you have to deal with it."
Did you ever think that there isn't enough evidence to ban those who are duping? If there is proof that an account was compromised and they do a rollback and an item gets duped, is it illegal? Only if that system is exploited. But what defines exploitation? Using it once? If it does not happen on the same account over and over again, nothing can be done. If they keep using dummy accounts to dupe items, nothing can be done.
Get over yourself and think.
It's hard to take sides on this matter, because my account has been compromised years back on Diablo 2, and Blizzard did nothing for me albeit it was my own stupidity that let me to go to a third-party site which put my account at risk just on a friend's simple request. It was 'my' fault and I am the only one who can control if I get scammed, and how.
If there was someway of 'rolling back' while replacing the items lost for whatever reason, to use the same item ID to make it so upon recovering the item, the original where-ever it may be would be destroyed, thus recovering the item to its proper state and owner, as intended.
This is proof of duping, and proof that blizzard is taking action against accounts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtKJaga3Vkw
It's completely different in D3; Items are really unique when it comes to stats, even legendaries with the exact same stats are very hard to come by. In D2 you could dupe an SOJ because they were all the same anyway. In D3 duping an soj of the same stats to the quantity you are describing would raise even more red flags then doing just a couple at a time.
Also afaik the duping process could take awhile, and I'm not even sure if 'real' duping is happening (where item codes are being changed to re-create items). Personally the most likely cenerio is either rollbacks, and / or exploiting the bug that sometimes drops 2 + of the same exact item. This bug still exists because my buddy found two the exact same legendary triumvirates at the same time, about two weeks ago.
I did see what happened to the gem prices and I see what they are at now. From the looks of things, Blizzard quietly fixed the issues considering that the price for gems is back to normal. I will wait and see what Blizzard does as I suspect; they too will fix this issue as quietly as they did the gem crisis.
Yep.
The "gem incident" is being used as proof of duping by some. When it should stand as evidence that Blizz is resolute in stomping out all forms of duplication.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
My take on the guy (and that is evident in his stating he made mad loot from the AH) is that he was paying for rent with the money he made from D3 and is angry that some folks are duping. It's more like taking food out of his mouth or taking a roof from over his head. He claims to be passionate about the game but in the end, I suspect.... It's more passionate about the income he discovered in D3 and he could actually care less about players.
It has to have a profit for there to be a point. Therefor;
if Profit = Point then No Profit = No Point.
Stop the Duping: Occupy Sanctuary!!!
Demon Hunter - Fadeddeath
Monk - Lumos
Witch Doctor - Nox
Wizard - Nethershade
You are right on the fact that blizzard took action. Most of the Duped item you can see on diabloprogress are now linked to deleted account or empty account. So Blizzard took action, that's for sure. But the issue didn't disapeared im pretty sure...
In my opinion (and I could be wrong...) what happened to gem prize is the simple Supply/Demand effect. Alot of people where duping the ")$()/ out of gems. The result was excesive supply in the market, driving the price extremely low. Smart players (no no not me!) realised that the market hitted the bottom price and started buying ALOT of gems to make insane profit. That brang the price back up. The market is now stabilised meaning that supply can't "supply" all the smart buyer that will instantly buy a gem that is underpriced. As long as buyer are still buying them, the market will stay stabilized. The price will stay very close to the one needed to craft them (as long as the duping method stay controlled).
roflol
Never played Diablo 2 did you?
If they took they RMAH out of the game, they would just all flood to d2jsp, ebay, etc.
1) If you were duping BiS items and then selling them on the AH for 2b gold to cash out (which is far more profitable than selling on the RMAH for $250 currently), you would be a complete idiot to put more than 1 of these items on the AH at a time. 2b items that are actually worth their price are tracked and multiple copies of the same item on the AH/RMAH would discourage legit players from buying them (would you buy an item knowing it was a dupe?). In fact, to be safe you wouldn't put duped items consecutively on the AH because it might drum up attention.
2) 2b items do not insta-sell, in fact the more expensive the item the longer it takes to sell usually. People who have this kind of gold track the same items sometimes for days. Think about it, if you're literally dropping nearly $1000 on an item, you'd better make sure it's worth the price. If we estimate it takes ~3-4 days to sell one of these 2b items on the AH then 10 of these items existing on diabloprogress means the duped item in question has been on the market for over 1 month.
3) It's very difficult to differentiate the method of duping (whether it's rollback dupes or some actual in-game technique). You'd think we could keep track of a couple of these duped items and see if their quantity increase over time (which would be a tell-tale sign that it was some in-game technique) . Unfortunately the dupers know that we can keep track of the quantity of these items so it's unlikely for them to keep selling the same items (especially since people who actually have the gold to buy these items will be discouraged knowing it's a duped item). The most we can do at this point is to keep tracking items to see if more dupes pop up. If more duped items keep popping up and their quantity is 5+ we'll know it's unlikely that they're all from roll-back dupes.
You can bet the people who are duping already had a ton of gold to begin with (hence how they could acquire such good items to dupe) and know how the AH works at that level. Therefore they would take the proper precautions to minimalize their chances of being caught or their trail being followed.