Don't mean to start a complain thread, but does anyone else felt lied to, or at least misled that the defensive nerfs were going to end up as buffs? I'm sure they do at MP0, but why would you make huge defensive nerfs at the same time as increasing the difficulty options?
I feel like RA and survivability has become MORE important now since obviously the goal for everyone is to make it to the highest MP you can quickly kill at. Doing so is going to require more and more AR, etc than ever before.
I know it's early, but does anyone have any constructive insight on what it's going to take from a survivability perspective for some of the MP levels?
Not at all, they stated it clearly. MP2-3 is what 1.04 inferno was, so you can't expect anything above that to be easy. So if you're doing MP's above that and it seems difficult, it should feel that way and you aren't being lied to. The difficulty wasn't increased by blizzard, you are increasing the difficulty and doing it to yourself, so it really isn't their fault.
RA and survival is important at those higher MP levels, absolutely. I need warcry impunity still, especially for plague/molten dual AOE on the ground for my barb.
I am doing MP5-6 and loving the challenge, I can actually die and I need to be careful.
This was the big Dev blog before the patch details were released talking about how they were upset that defensive abilites were so mandatory. Nerfing monster power was their answer. However at the same time, they gave you options to make it harder....
They stated in the blog that they were going to reduce Inferno damage (at mp0) by at least 25%, but MP 2-3 is where you get back to the same dmg level but they still decreased your defensive abilities. So even at MP2, your survival is lower than it was pre patch. So I guess what I'm confused about is how they thought they were going to fix the "problem" of Inferno characters absolutely requiring 600+ RA and 3 defensive abilities?
They stated in the blog that they were going to reduce Inferno damage (at mp0) by at least 25%, but MP 2-3 is where you get back to the same dmg level but they still decreased your defensive abilities. So even at MP2, your survival is lower than it was pre patch. So I guess what I'm confused about is how they thought they were going to fix the "problem" of Inferno characters absolutely requiring 600+ RA and 3 defensive abilities?
I have 400 RA and war cry with the health rune is the only defensive ability I have and I sleep walked through MP3, so its really not that bad
Don't mean to start a complain thread, but does anyone else felt lied to, or at least misled that the defensive nerfs were going to end up as buffs? I'm sure they do at MP0, but why would you make huge defensive nerfs at the same time as increasing the difficulty options?
I feel like RA and survivability has become MORE important now since obviously the goal for everyone is to make it to the highest MP you can quickly kill at. Doing so is going to require more and more AR, etc than ever before.
I know it's early, but does anyone have any constructive insight on what it's going to take from a survivability perspective for some of the MP levels?
I don't understand why you feel this way. High MP levels are not designed to be mandatory, they're for people who have crazy gear, which includes having reasonable defense. If you don't want to be forced into having good survivability, just stick with an MP level where you can kill things before they kill you.
If you can beat MP1, you're at the endgame. Play it and have fun. As your gear improves and MP1 isn't a challenge anymore, start increasing the MP so you can still have fun. That's all there is to it.
I think that it might have a lot to do with play style. With my monk they nurfed 2 passives and the armor buff from the Sorc. So at MP3 I feel squishy since I use all 3. People that didnt use the Sorc will feel less of a Change.
I do agree with the idea that Everyone will want to push the MP level and that will require more defense not less.
The end game for anyone who's played this game for more than 100 hours is the farming process (for exp/loot/infernal machine parts/whatever) which means progressing into the MP area. I don't mind increasing my survivability, but without intense, prolonged farming, your only means of doing so is spending a lot of money on the AH and using all/most of the defensive survivability abilities. I don't think anyone really sees this as "fun" (they may like the challenge and adjustment to play style) but I find it a little disheartening that I have less to rely on from an ability standpoint since they all got nerfed drastically. To progress through MPs it's not enough just to switch over to defense abilities, you have to invest heavily in the AH. I REALLY want to farm for keys and organ parts and get a Hellfire ring. At MP2 which is pretty much all I can handle right now, I should have a 20% chance of dropping a key or a plan, and 20% of getting an organ piece. At 3 organ pieces, that means 15 portals, which means 45 keys, which means killing key wardens 225 times, and all of it starts with killing 1200+ elites first. I mean, sure, it SOUNDS like fun but seriously, why nerf the defense?
TL;DR on my whole complaint: Blizzard appears to make a concerted effort to make the end game less defense requirements, and then moves the end game out to much much harder content and leaves us only gear to make up the difference.
@Adhal, can you post a link to your bnet account so I can see the character you're rolling MP3 with? My wife has much more RA and uses the same ability for defense and we have slow going through MP2
Cuz MP is optional. And if u could easily outgear mp10, then wheres the fun?
If they had left the defensive abilities exactly the same, MP2-3 would be the same experience, which would give you 7 full levels to advance through. As one of the people who has put hundreds of hours into the game and do NOT faceroll act 3 (prepatch) I'm sure you can understand why I feel like my power level has taken a step back
The end game for anyone who's played this game for more than 100 hours is the farming process (for exp/loot/infernal machine parts/whatever) which means progressing into the MP area. I don't mind increasing my survivability, but without intense, prolonged farming, your only means of doing so is spending a lot of money on the AH and using all/most of the defensive survivability abilities. I don't think anyone really sees this as "fun" (they may like the challenge and adjustment to play style) but I find it a little disheartening that I have less to rely on from an ability standpoint since they all got nerfed drastically. To progress through MPs it's not enough just to switch over to defense abilities, you have to invest heavily in the AH. I REALLY want to farm for keys and organ parts and get a Hellfire ring. At MP2 which is pretty much all I can handle right now, I should have a 20% chance of dropping a key or a plan, and 20% of getting an organ piece. At 3 organ pieces, that means 15 portals, which means 45 keys, which means killing key wardens 225 times, and all of it starts with killing 1200+ elites first. I mean, sure, it SOUNDS like fun but seriously, why nerf the defense?
TL;DR on my whole complaint: Blizzard appears to make a concerted effort to make the end game less defense requirements, and then moves the end game out to much much harder content and leaves us only gear to make up the difference.
@Adhal, can you post a link to your bnet account so I can see the character you're rolling MP3 with? My wife has much more RA and uses the same ability for defense and we have slow going through MP2
Are you an no-AH purist? Because that would explain a lot. Nothing has been nerfed - MP0 is far easier than before, with exactly the same rewards. MP1 is not hard either if you want the flat difficulty. Yes farming ubers will be a very slow process if you go that route, but they're not mandatory, it's just one ring. There has to be something to keep the more dedicated players playing.
You don't have to stack defense skills anymore, even at high MP. But if you don't, you will need good defense and LoH/life steal on your gear, which takes time. That's just the way that the game works. They never said that they were completely removing the need for any defense at all.
Sterling is kind of a work-in-progress... I was taking advantage of the Trail of Cinders bug with gold find and am kind of in a halfway point with switching him back to MF/progression.
Lizard is the char I am trying to farm Keys with and he's pretty crunchy. I think it tough to find items with high Int/some Vit/AR/Magic find and/or Crit %, AS, or Crit dmg for less than 5M (which is a LOT of money if you're not playing the AH game).
If you've got some AH suggestions, I'd love to hear them
PS. I'm acutely aware that I have no LOH/LS on Lizard, it's next on my "to do" list
If they had left the defensive abilities exactly the same, MP2-3 would be the same experience, which would give you 7 full levels to advance through. As one of the people who has put hundreds of hours into the game and do NOT faceroll act 3 (prepatch) I'm sure you can understand why I feel like my power level has taken a step back
You have not taken a step back. If you play at MP0, the game is easier than 1.0.4, and the loot is better. End of story.
I don't understand why people are so obsessed with farming the higher MP levels asap. The real good thing about the system is that monster hp and damage go up much higher than your MF/GF/XP bonus. This basically means that players should not feel forced to play the highest MP level possible (remember when the big problem was that everybody felt that they needed to be able to farm act 3 because of the better drops but would have to grind for weeks until they could do so?)
Small caveat: if your goal is to get key parts for the Infernal Machine or body parts from the Ubers, the calculus will be quite different to the usual MP MF/GF/XP bonus calculus.
Apart from that, I agree entirely with what you are saying.
I was going quite comfortably on MP4, but toned it down to MP2. So much quicker, and so much XP. Can waltz through anything, and Blues/Yellows die quite quickly. Need to get my hands on a hellfire ring ASAP to get the 35% bonus XP as well.
[...]Need to get my hands on a hellfire ring ASAP to get the 35% bonus XP as well.
That's exactly why MP level is important. At MP2, I've killed the key warden in act 1 27 times and have 2 keys. Considering my bad luck, I'm looking at a ridiculous amount of portals needed
Jk, i suggest finding a party to farm key's with a higher MP level, and for inferno machines, do a group of 3, each with one machine, then you only need to farm 1 set of keys for a chance at a ring depending on your MP
I feel like RA and survivability has become MORE important now since obviously the goal for everyone is to make it to the highest MP you can quickly kill at. Doing so is going to require more and more AR, etc than ever before.
I know it's early, but does anyone have any constructive insight on what it's going to take from a survivability perspective for some of the MP levels?
RA and survival is important at those higher MP levels, absolutely. I need warcry impunity still, especially for plague/molten dual AOE on the ground for my barb.
I am doing MP5-6 and loving the challenge, I can actually die and I need to be careful.
This was the big Dev blog before the patch details were released talking about how they were upset that defensive abilites were so mandatory. Nerfing monster power was their answer. However at the same time, they gave you options to make it harder....
They stated in the blog that they were going to reduce Inferno damage (at mp0) by at least 25%, but MP 2-3 is where you get back to the same dmg level but they still decreased your defensive abilities. So even at MP2, your survival is lower than it was pre patch. So I guess what I'm confused about is how they thought they were going to fix the "problem" of Inferno characters absolutely requiring 600+ RA and 3 defensive abilities?
I have 400 RA and war cry with the health rune is the only defensive ability I have and I sleep walked through MP3, so its really not that bad
I don't understand why you feel this way. High MP levels are not designed to be mandatory, they're for people who have crazy gear, which includes having reasonable defense. If you don't want to be forced into having good survivability, just stick with an MP level where you can kill things before they kill you.
If you can beat MP1, you're at the endgame. Play it and have fun. As your gear improves and MP1 isn't a challenge anymore, start increasing the MP so you can still have fun. That's all there is to it.
I do agree with the idea that Everyone will want to push the MP level and that will require more defense not less.
TL;DR on my whole complaint: Blizzard appears to make a concerted effort to make the end game less defense requirements, and then moves the end game out to much much harder content and leaves us only gear to make up the difference.
@Adhal, can you post a link to your bnet account so I can see the character you're rolling MP3 with? My wife has much more RA and uses the same ability for defense and we have slow going through MP2
If they had left the defensive abilities exactly the same, MP2-3 would be the same experience, which would give you 7 full levels to advance through. As one of the people who has put hundreds of hours into the game and do NOT faceroll act 3 (prepatch) I'm sure you can understand why I feel like my power level has taken a step back
Are you an no-AH purist? Because that would explain a lot. Nothing has been nerfed - MP0 is far easier than before, with exactly the same rewards. MP1 is not hard either if you want the flat difficulty. Yes farming ubers will be a very slow process if you go that route, but they're not mandatory, it's just one ring. There has to be something to keep the more dedicated players playing.
You don't have to stack defense skills anymore, even at high MP. But if you don't, you will need good defense and LoH/life steal on your gear, which takes time. That's just the way that the game works. They never said that they were completely removing the need for any defense at all.
Sterling is kind of a work-in-progress... I was taking advantage of the Trail of Cinders bug with gold find and am kind of in a halfway point with switching him back to MF/progression.
Lizard is the char I am trying to farm Keys with and he's pretty crunchy. I think it tough to find items with high Int/some Vit/AR/Magic find and/or Crit %, AS, or Crit dmg for less than 5M (which is a LOT of money if you're not playing the AH game).
If you've got some AH suggestions, I'd love to hear them
PS. I'm acutely aware that I have no LOH/LS on Lizard, it's next on my "to do" list
You have not taken a step back. If you play at MP0, the game is easier than 1.0.4, and the loot is better. End of story.
Small caveat: if your goal is to get key parts for the Infernal Machine or body parts from the Ubers, the calculus will be quite different to the usual MP MF/GF/XP bonus calculus.
Apart from that, I agree entirely with what you are saying.
That's exactly why MP level is important. At MP2, I've killed the key warden in act 1 27 times and have 2 keys. Considering my bad luck, I'm looking at a ridiculous amount of portals needed
Arcane sentries and big phys hits still crush me though lol