Hit 60 -> spend 20 minutes in the AH -> dominate inferno
Yeah, that sounds awesome! Stupid.
Diablo 2: Meet level requirement for item -> spend a week trying to track down and trade that item via chat and websites -> improve character in a week
Diablo 3: Meet level requirement for item -> spend 5 minutes tracking down an item -> improve character in 5 minutes
Making the tracking down process easier doesn't upset me in a game where killing monsters is the goal.
Well i didnt spend a week trying to track that item down via chat and websites in d2. I had either found the items on my own, or a couple of close friends of mine found them, all on their own too, and we all thought it would be cool if we started a new character based on that character. If not, I dont mind spending a week or even 2 doing runs, being pretty sure that by e end of that e item i want will drop. It wasnt all that difficult to find the items for most builds in d3, esp since most of the required items werent things like windforce or tyrael's might.
How many times in d3 has an item dropped that cause people to say:"hey my friend or myself should start a new character with this! Cool concept!"
So what if the item prices have dropped? It still doesnt change the fact that the drop rates and quality are way below what is usually seen in an ARPG.
I just read a response by runic about economy here:
"Economy – Does TL2 need an economy? In a game about the item “hunt”, where the hunt is where the pride is, what do people earn from “buying/selling” items. What I find confusing here is everyone here goes, “LOOOooOOOOT” , an integral feature of this genre, yet they also want a feature that completely goes against this feature. In my opinion there is no pride in buying an item in these games. Say you’re a hunter, you kill something keep a trophy, there is pride in that. Now say you are a hunter and you bought a trophy from another hunter, where’s the pride in that. People always describe this genre with phrases like “Enjoy hunting for LOOT? Look at this” and that’s exactly what Runic delivered, a game where you can find the item you need or want. An economy will exist, just not one that is controlled. To have an economy is to change the item game to correlate with the Economic system. Apart from that like ladders, an economy is a perk, an extra."
Before others come here to flame and ask me to go play TL 2 instead of wasting time here, yes I will play TL2, but that doesnt mean I wont play d3 anymore. It's the fact I, and many of us here, are all concerned about the game that we hope some changes will happen that will make the D3 a better game. If we didn't care at all, then we wouldn't bother posting here in the first place.
Good idea, but Blizzard can simply increase the drop rate... PROBLEM SOLVED.
Blizzard needs to take its head out of its *** and get out of this mind set that gamers have to either give up there day jobs to find nice gear or buy it from the (RM)AH. This is the problem really. Blizzard think they are entitled to their'cut' from Loot.
For any other game, the developers want players to find nice loot and have fun, after all... what do they care or have to lose?
The answer to this question is the driving force behind D3 unfortuanately.
Dont get me wrong I love playing D3 and I'm working my way to my last 2 Level 60 characters, but I cant see myself playing this game for years like I did with D2.
Once you've completed a game like Diablo the most fun can be had from finding sweet Loot. With the current drop rates, its just not worth it IMO.
Blizzard should simply have a meeting and say... "Ok, so the AH was a bad idea, and the players are the idiots we thought they were. Lets just leave the RMAH & AH as is but increaese the drop rate to the same as D2 and try and save face'.
I'm sorry, are you remembering a different diablo 2 where good uniques dropped all the time? Because the one I played had super low level uniques drop every couple minutes and they were all worthless.
I'm also not gettin what you want here. You state you know that the item hunt is what players do after 'beating' the game, and you state that you don't see yourself playing D3 for years and years. Yet you want higher drops rates, which would just cut the games life shorter.
Reading the idea where 1000 packs means twice the chance of finding a legendary (so from 0.001 to 0.002) is definitely something I can agree to, as it won't really actually increase the legendary drop rate, but give a goal to work for.
However, certain limitations should apply:
1. Only available at lvl 60.
2. Only available in inferno.
3. Leaving inferno should reset the stacks.
Why do I want these rules?
Well, I am currently lvling yet another char because staying alive is hard, and I notice there are far more legendary drops during the lvling process than at higher lvls. Currently, you mainly got 1 goal while lvling, and that is to get up in lvls, not get legendaries.
If you allow it outside inferno, people will start farming leorics signet even more and it will simply drop in value, while the boost is small its not needed at these lvls.
It should be a reward at the endgame imho.
I'm sorry, are you remembering a different diablo 2 where good uniques dropped all the time? Because the one I played had super low level uniques drop every couple minutes and they were all worthless.
I'm also not gettin what you want here. You state you know that the item hunt is what players do after 'beating' the game, and you state that you don't see yourself playing D3 for years and years. Yet you want higher drops rates, which would just cut the games life shorter.
Well.... its been a while since I played it, but I did play it for a long time and aside from there being a lot more to do (Rune Words) I remember finding Set Items, none of which would I ever consider selling.
I also remember Legendaries/Set items being pretty awesome and the thing you would grind for to find. I found one the other day and it was utter rubbish. It would have been great on a level 25.
Increasing drop rates will make the game shorter, only for those that are prepared to play it endlessly with nothing to show.
For those of us that want something to show after 50 hours of farming but get nothing, will simply move onto other games. This will shorten the life span of D3 down to about 12 months. If the drops were increased and farming yielded some results said players might be happy to continue playing for a couple of years.
So Blizzard buffs legendarys to the point that they are clearly BiS and sure enough now all anyone can think about is getting a legendary, ignoring anything else as useless junk. And gets shitty about the fact legendaries rarely drop. Sigh.
My solution to QQ about drop rates: hunt down QQers, murder them and put their heads on spikes as a warning to all other QQers!
Well.... its been a while since I played it, but I did play it for a long time and aside from there being a lot more to do (Rune Words) I remember finding Set Items, none of which would I ever consider selling.
How many HRs did you have drop for you in your entire time playing? How many Zods? Lol. People complaining about shitty drop rates in D3 don't know the meaning of "shitty drop rate"! And your MF didn't even affect your rune drop rate.
But w/e right because everyone had heaps of perfect runewords thanks to all the dupes.
I also remember Legendaries/Set items being pretty awesome and the thing you would grind for to find. I found one the other day and it was utter rubbish. It would have been great on a level 25.
You found a Legendary (guess you mean Unique)/Set item and it would've been great on a level 25? Are you talking about D3 or D2 there? Because that happened literally all the goddamn time in D2
So Blizzard buffs legendarys to the point that they are clearly BiS and sure enough now all anyone can think about is getting a legendary, ignoring anything else as useless junk. And gets shitty about the fact legendaries rarely drop. Sigh.
My solution to QQ about drop rates: hunt down QQers, murder them and put their heads on spikes as a warning to all other QQers!
I agree, now lets just get it true the legal procedures and we can begin.
How should we word and reason these actions, any ideas?
Also, maybe this will bring back the "dark feeling around Diablo" that people miss from Diablo 2?
Hit 60 -> spend 20 minutes in the AH -> dominate inferno
Yeah, that sounds awesome! Stupid.
Diablo 2: Meet level requirement for item -> spend a week trying to track down and trade that item via chat and websites -> improve character in a week
Diablo 3: Meet level requirement for item -> spend 5 minutes tracking down an item -> improve character in 5 minutes
Making the tracking down process easier doesn't upset me in a game where killing monsters is the goal.
Don't bother trying to talk since into these ignorant morons. It doesn't work. They aren't happy unless they are crying and whining about shit and so they won't use common sense at all.
Well.... its been a while since I played it, but I did play it for a long time and aside from there being a lot more to do (Rune Words) I remember finding Set Items, none of which would I ever consider selling.
How many HRs did you have drop for you in your entire time playing? How many Zods? Lol. People complaining about shitty drop rates in D3 don't know the meaning of "shitty drop rate"! And your MF didn't even affect your rune drop rate.
But w/e right because everyone had heaps of perfect runewords thanks to all the dupes.
I also remember Legendaries/Set items being pretty awesome and the thing you would grind for to find. I found one the other day and it was utter rubbish. It would have been great on a level 25.
You found a Legendary (guess you mean Unique)/Set item and it would've been great on a level 25? Are you talking about D3 or D2 there? Because that happened literally all the goddamn time in D2
Oh... I dont know how many hours I played, it was on & off for about 5 years or so. I forgot all about the Dupes though haha... I was guilty of that for sure.
I dont remember getting crap Unique/Legendary/Set items, but maybe they were. D2 was never the only game I played and I've been playing games for 30 years now. I remember the worst thing about Unique being that they would drop for the wrong character and how much I wished for a shared Stash.
My view of the loot problem in D3 compared with d2
D3 has been here for months now, lets take the time when D2 ladder is in the later days.
Grinding D2 for 2h always gave me at least something to sell(never went a run without an item worth at least PUL rune, it is shitty but 8 of those were IST and 10 of those would be BER/JAH). Note: at least a pul, usually at least 4-5 of items of the same value, if lucky then something better with much higher value. Almost every run gave me an item with some value! Yay!
Problem with loot in D3 is that you can go grinding 4-5h and not find a single item that is worth at least 50k gold. You almost never feel like you have found something even remotely valuable. We need an incentive to play by rewarding us all the time. Well check this out: playing 4-5h in D3 you can net pure gold 500k-1m. BUT the problem is that no one thinks they had a good drop. Because they haven't :(. I'm talking here of the people that can easily farm at least act2. Since all the others can find upgrades on their own, or by collecting gold and buying on the AH for 100k-500k gear.
My view of the loot problem in D3 compared with d2
D3 has been here for months now, lets take the time when D2 ladder is in the later days.
Grinding D2 for 2h always gave me at least something to sell(never went a run without an item worth at least PUL rune, it is shitty but 8 of those were IST and 10 of those would be BER/JAH). Note: at least a pul, usually at least 4-5 of items of the same value, if lucky then something better with much higher value. Almost every run gave me an item with some value! Yay!
Problem with loot in D3 is that you can go grinding 4-5h and not find a single item that is worth at least 50k gold. You almost never feel like you have found something even remotely valuable. We need an incentive to play by rewarding us all the time. Well check this out: playing 4-5h in D3 you can net pure gold 500k-1m. BUT the problem is that no one thinks they had a good drop. Because they haven't :(. I'm talking here of the people that can easily farm at least act2. Since all the others can find upgrades on their own, or by collecting gold and buying on the AH for 100k-500k gear.
The conclusion? I don't know! You?
I think the problem is that the accessibility of items is currently really high because lots of people play D3 and therefore items that sell needs to be better because if not you will lose out in the competition.
Try hardcore, I like the market better there, easier to find upgrades out in the world even while using AH, harder to find items at AH and also possible to find upgrades for yourself to equip.
The only "bad" thing is that some people don't like starting over (I personally love that I can try out a new class when I die ^^)
Reading the idea where 1000 packs means twice the chance of finding a legendary (so from 0.001 to 0.002) is definitely something I can agree to, as it won't really actually increase the legendary drop rate, but give a goal to work for.
However, certain limitations should apply:
1. Only available at lvl 60.
2. Only available in inferno.
3. Leaving inferno should reset the stacks.
Why do I want these rules?
Well, I am currently lvling yet another char because staying alive is hard, and I notice there are far more legendary drops during the lvling process than at higher lvls. Currently, you mainly got 1 goal while lvling, and that is to get up in lvls, not get legendaries.
If you allow it outside inferno, people will start farming leorics signet even more and it will simply drop in value, while the boost is small its not needed at these lvls.
It should be a reward at the endgame imho.
Well yeah for sure being level 60 is a must, and stacks should only generate in inferno, but you should not lose the stacks for leaving inferno, what if you have a friend who needs help with hell belial?
Rares are the new blue and feel more a chore to pick up than anything else due to constantly increased drop rates (something that didn't solve the original issue of to wide ranges on high end affixes), lets not make legendary items take the same path, pretty please, with sugar on top.
In short, the rates are fine, I get 1-2 a day with around 2 hours of playing.
Yes, rates are fine, this would barely change the rates, it would simply make dry streaks less depressing, and not completely destroy players motivation to farm.
Actually it would increase the amount of legendary items dropped hence rates would be changed, while it doesn't seems like much on an individual level once you look at it from a larger perspective what's suggested will affect item values quite a bit if implemented.
A much larger problem is the wide affix ranges on high end rares combined with the quite ridiculous drop rate we have now it makes rares quite frankly uninteresting and a inconvenience to loot. The drop rates should never have been changed after the initial change to add the higher i-levels to all acts, instead the affixes should have been tightened to make it less of a lottery with rolling useful numbers on them.
The drop rate would not change a noticeable amount. The reason for there being more legendaries if this was implemented is because there are a lot more people farming these legendaries, and since these people who didn't farm before need their own legendaries still, the amount in the market would decrease not increase
Good idea, but Blizzard can simply increase the drop rate... PROBLEM SOLVED.
Blizzard needs to take its head out of its *** and get out of this mind set that gamers have to either give up there day jobs to find nice gear or buy it from the (RM)AH. This is the problem really. Blizzard think they are entitled to their'cut' from Loot.
For any other game, the developers want players to find nice loot and have fun, after all... what do they care or have to lose?
The answer to this question is the driving force behind D3 unfortuanately.
Dont get me wrong I love playing D3 and I'm working my way to my last 2 Level 60 characters, but I cant see myself playing this game for years like I did with D2.
Once you've completed a game like Diablo the most fun can be had from finding sweet Loot. With the current drop rates, its just not worth it IMO.
Blizzard should simply have a meeting and say... "Ok, so the AH was a bad idea, and the players are the idiots we thought they were. Lets just leave the RMAH & AH as is but increaese the drop rate to the same as D2 and try and save face'.
Yes, the fun is finding sweet loot, but if everyone found sweet loot often, and it became dirt cheap, it would not be sweet still, and you would not enjoy getting it, hence why just a flat increase to drop rates would be a bad idea, since high paragon levels get say they get legendaries quite often, so increasing the rates would flood the market, hence why I came up with a design that would not benefit them, but benefit the hard workers.
Right now, the game is designed for ppl who use the AH, 24/7. That has to change. Blizz needs to provides non-AH users a way to get good drops more often without the necesity of using the AH to make a "progress".
For 20k gold in the AH you can get a 1200dps blue/rare, do you know when was the last time I saw a 1200dps item droped in the groud?, never. Do you know how much time it takes to my WD to get 20k gold in act 1 inferno?, 5-10 mins.
So, stop saying that the old trade system in D2 is the same that the AH, its not, no even close.
Reading the idea where 1000 packs means twice the chance of finding a legendary (so from 0.001 to 0.002) is definitely something I can agree to, as it won't really actually increase the legendary drop rate, but give a goal to work for.
However, certain limitations should apply:
1. Only available at lvl 60.
2. Only available in inferno.
3. Leaving inferno should reset the stacks.
Why do I want these rules?
Well, I am currently lvling yet another char because staying alive is hard, and I notice there are far more legendary drops during the lvling process than at higher lvls. Currently, you mainly got 1 goal while lvling, and that is to get up in lvls, not get legendaries.
If you allow it outside inferno, people will start farming leorics signet even more and it will simply drop in value, while the boost is small its not needed at these lvls.
It should be a reward at the endgame imho.
Well yeah for sure being level 60 is a must, and stacks should only generate in inferno, but you should not lose the stacks for leaving inferno, what if you have a friend who needs help with hell belial?
You raise a very good point, it shouldnt be a punishment helping out a friend.
Therefore, it should be temporarily deactivated while outside of Inferno, means you can have 50 stacks of it, but it wont affect drops, it wont keep stacking, and it wont fall. That way, I think it would be most fair.
Right now, the game is designed for ppl who use the AH, 24/7. That has to change. Blizz needs to provides non-AH users a way to get good drops more often without the necesity of using the AH to make a "progress".
For 20k gold in the AH you can get a 1200dps blue/rare, do you know when was the last time I saw a 1200dps item droped in the groud?, never. Do you know how much time it takes to my WD to get 20k gold in act 1 inferno?, 5-10 mins.
So, stop saying that the old trade system in D2 is the same that the AH, its not, no even close.
Yep... exactly mate. You got it.
Diablo is supposed to be a Loot 'Grind & Find' game. Except D3 is broken in the sense that its a 'Grind and Buy' game.
I used to get so excited about identifying items. Now I get excited when I see piles of gold of the ground. Its just not the same.
For 20k gold in the AH you can get a 1200dps blue/rare, do you know when was the last time I saw a 1200dps item droped in the groud?, never. Do you know how much time it takes to my WD to get 20k gold in act 1 inferno?, 5-10 mins.
One, they're blue. While weapon damage matters, stats on weapons are what make them highly valuable.
Blue weapons are worth severely less than their rare counterparts, but people still try to sell them which is why you see the 20k price tag. For most players a 1000 DPS weapon with primary + crit damage + socket is far more damage and far more desireable than a 1200 DPS weapon with no relevant stats.
Also, I see 1200+ DPS weapons all the time. They aren't that uncommon at all. The only thing that's holding prices up on the rares is the ... rarity ... of the affixes. Finding a 1200+ DPS weapon is not remotely uncommon though. What in the world you're doing that you haven't ever seen one, I cannot begin to imagine.
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Well i didnt spend a week trying to track that item down via chat and websites in d2. I had either found the items on my own, or a couple of close friends of mine found them, all on their own too, and we all thought it would be cool if we started a new character based on that character. If not, I dont mind spending a week or even 2 doing runs, being pretty sure that by e end of that e item i want will drop. It wasnt all that difficult to find the items for most builds in d3, esp since most of the required items werent things like windforce or tyrael's might.
How many times in d3 has an item dropped that cause people to say:"hey my friend or myself should start a new character with this! Cool concept!"
So what if the item prices have dropped? It still doesnt change the fact that the drop rates and quality are way below what is usually seen in an ARPG.
I just read a response by runic about economy here:
"Economy – Does TL2 need an economy? In a game about the item “hunt”, where the hunt is where the pride is, what do people earn from “buying/selling” items. What I find confusing here is everyone here goes, “LOOOooOOOOT” , an integral feature of this genre, yet they also want a feature that completely goes against this feature. In my opinion there is no pride in buying an item in these games. Say you’re a hunter, you kill something keep a trophy, there is pride in that. Now say you are a hunter and you bought a trophy from another hunter, where’s the pride in that.
People always describe this genre with phrases like “Enjoy hunting for LOOT? Look at this” and that’s exactly what Runic delivered, a game where you can find the item you need or want.
An economy will exist, just not one that is controlled. To have an economy is to change the item game to correlate with the Economic system.
Apart from that like ladders, an economy is a perk, an extra."
Before others come here to flame and ask me to go play TL 2 instead of wasting time here, yes I will play TL2, but that doesnt mean I wont play d3 anymore. It's the fact I, and many of us here, are all concerned about the game that we hope some changes will happen that will make the D3 a better game. If we didn't care at all, then we wouldn't bother posting here in the first place.
I'm sorry, are you remembering a different diablo 2 where good uniques dropped all the time? Because the one I played had super low level uniques drop every couple minutes and they were all worthless.
I'm also not gettin what you want here. You state you know that the item hunt is what players do after 'beating' the game, and you state that you don't see yourself playing D3 for years and years. Yet you want higher drops rates, which would just cut the games life shorter.
However, certain limitations should apply:
1. Only available at lvl 60.
2. Only available in inferno.
3. Leaving inferno should reset the stacks.
Why do I want these rules?
Well, I am currently lvling yet another char because staying alive is hard, and I notice there are far more legendary drops during the lvling process than at higher lvls. Currently, you mainly got 1 goal while lvling, and that is to get up in lvls, not get legendaries.
If you allow it outside inferno, people will start farming leorics signet even more and it will simply drop in value, while the boost is small its not needed at these lvls.
It should be a reward at the endgame imho.
Well.... its been a while since I played it, but I did play it for a long time and aside from there being a lot more to do (Rune Words) I remember finding Set Items, none of which would I ever consider selling.
I also remember Legendaries/Set items being pretty awesome and the thing you would grind for to find. I found one the other day and it was utter rubbish. It would have been great on a level 25.
Increasing drop rates will make the game shorter, only for those that are prepared to play it endlessly with nothing to show.
For those of us that want something to show after 50 hours of farming but get nothing, will simply move onto other games. This will shorten the life span of D3 down to about 12 months. If the drops were increased and farming yielded some results said players might be happy to continue playing for a couple of years.
My solution to QQ about drop rates: hunt down QQers, murder them and put their heads on spikes as a warning to all other QQers!
Really doubt they'd do that.
How many HRs did you have drop for you in your entire time playing? How many Zods? Lol. People complaining about shitty drop rates in D3 don't know the meaning of "shitty drop rate"! And your MF didn't even affect your rune drop rate.
But w/e right because everyone had heaps of perfect runewords thanks to all the dupes.
You found a Legendary (guess you mean Unique)/Set item and it would've been great on a level 25? Are you talking about D3 or D2 there? Because that happened literally all the goddamn time in D2
I agree, now lets just get it true the legal procedures and we can begin.
How should we word and reason these actions, any ideas?
Also, maybe this will bring back the "dark feeling around Diablo" that people miss from Diablo 2?
Don't bother trying to talk since into these ignorant morons. It doesn't work. They aren't happy unless they are crying and whining about shit and so they won't use common sense at all.
If you care you should be posting on the official forums, not here. Just saying.
Oh... I dont know how many hours I played, it was on & off for about 5 years or so. I forgot all about the Dupes though haha... I was guilty of that for sure.
I dont remember getting crap Unique/Legendary/Set items, but maybe they were. D2 was never the only game I played and I've been playing games for 30 years now. I remember the worst thing about Unique being that they would drop for the wrong character and how much I wished for a shared Stash.
D3 has been here for months now, lets take the time when D2 ladder is in the later days.
Grinding D2 for 2h always gave me at least something to sell(never went a run without an item worth at least PUL rune, it is shitty but 8 of those were IST and 10 of those would be BER/JAH). Note: at least a pul, usually at least 4-5 of items of the same value, if lucky then something better with much higher value. Almost every run gave me an item with some value! Yay!
Problem with loot in D3 is that you can go grinding 4-5h and not find a single item that is worth at least 50k gold. You almost never feel like you have found something even remotely valuable. We need an incentive to play by rewarding us all the time. Well check this out: playing 4-5h in D3 you can net pure gold 500k-1m. BUT the problem is that no one thinks they had a good drop. Because they haven't :(. I'm talking here of the people that can easily farm at least act2. Since all the others can find upgrades on their own, or by collecting gold and buying on the AH for 100k-500k gear.
The conclusion? I don't know! You?
I think the problem is that the accessibility of items is currently really high because lots of people play D3 and therefore items that sell needs to be better because if not you will lose out in the competition.
Try hardcore, I like the market better there, easier to find upgrades out in the world even while using AH, harder to find items at AH and also possible to find upgrades for yourself to equip.
The only "bad" thing is that some people don't like starting over (I personally love that I can try out a new class when I die ^^)
Well yeah for sure being level 60 is a must, and stacks should only generate in inferno, but you should not lose the stacks for leaving inferno, what if you have a friend who needs help with hell belial?
The drop rate would not change a noticeable amount. The reason for there being more legendaries if this was implemented is because there are a lot more people farming these legendaries, and since these people who didn't farm before need their own legendaries still, the amount in the market would decrease not increase
Yes, the fun is finding sweet loot, but if everyone found sweet loot often, and it became dirt cheap, it would not be sweet still, and you would not enjoy getting it, hence why just a flat increase to drop rates would be a bad idea, since high paragon levels get say they get legendaries quite often, so increasing the rates would flood the market, hence why I came up with a design that would not benefit them, but benefit the hard workers.
For 20k gold in the AH you can get a 1200dps blue/rare, do you know when was the last time I saw a 1200dps item droped in the groud?, never. Do you know how much time it takes to my WD to get 20k gold in act 1 inferno?, 5-10 mins.
So, stop saying that the old trade system in D2 is the same that the AH, its not, no even close.
You raise a very good point, it shouldnt be a punishment helping out a friend.
Therefore, it should be temporarily deactivated while outside of Inferno, means you can have 50 stacks of it, but it wont affect drops, it wont keep stacking, and it wont fall. That way, I think it would be most fair.
Yep... exactly mate. You got it.
Diablo is supposed to be a Loot 'Grind & Find' game. Except D3 is broken in the sense that its a 'Grind and Buy' game.
I used to get so excited about identifying items. Now I get excited when I see piles of gold of the ground. Its just not the same.
One, they're blue. While weapon damage matters, stats on weapons are what make them highly valuable.
Blue weapons are worth severely less than their rare counterparts, but people still try to sell them which is why you see the 20k price tag. For most players a 1000 DPS weapon with primary + crit damage + socket is far more damage and far more desireable than a 1200 DPS weapon with no relevant stats.
Also, I see 1200+ DPS weapons all the time. They aren't that uncommon at all. The only thing that's holding prices up on the rares is the ... rarity ... of the affixes. Finding a 1200+ DPS weapon is not remotely uncommon though. What in the world you're doing that you haven't ever seen one, I cannot begin to imagine.