(take spaces out, I guess I can't post URL's yet) -> there you go. Signed: Zero(pS)
So I've got four 60's and I'm still terrible at judging the value of rares. Routinely I'll find something I think would go for over a million and ask on a forum and most people say it's vendor trash. Also, I'm finding that searching the AH for similar items isn't very reliable for pricing things. So I took the criticisms and feedback attempted to create a spreadsheet to help myself weed out all of the worthless items I had in my stash, and to help me judge drops in the future. So far I'm keeping it pretty generic, but I'd love to get feedback on the values I have in there. Thanks!
Personally I think all shields are completely worthless, people will still buy the very top end ones (your main stat/vit/resist are probably too low for shields) but it doesn't make any sense when a 900 loh + socket + stats weapon for the same cost is almost always better.
For caster offhands it tops out at over 500 total +dmg now with ilvl 63 so you really need more like +350 dmg minimum unless it's one of the legendaries with special affixes for silly builds (fun to mess around with but not optimal) and crit is really mandatory.
It could use a little more work as phuzi0n said, but I agree that it's a really good starting point for people having trouble determining what will sell in the auction house. Thanks for sharing.
I'll never understand the logic that the AH isn't reliable for pricing things. It's the single most accurate thing for pricing (since that's where 99% of everything sells!); the problem is people aren't reliable, and as such it takes a little effort and knowledge (and I mean little) to sift through the "trash". Yes, plenty of stuff is overpriced - but plenty of stuff is also right on the money. If you find a plethora of items with similar stats in a similar price range, you can bet it's probably safe to price yours nearby (or a little under if you want a quick sale).
How accurate do people really expect an open auction house to be? Down to the single digits? If we're talking about selling items for 6 digits and up, does it really matter if pricing is off by a few hundred thousand one way or the other? The higher you go, you have even more wiggle room. At the low end, does it really matter if an item doesn't sell for 500k, but you cut it down to 250k and it sells? Sure, you can say after 10 items you lost a potential 2.5mil, or you can realize that if you're selling enough crap, you would have never had the space to sell stuff long enough to get maximum potential anyway.
I'm all for a "guide" that helps people identify which stats are good, great, better, best, etc, to help spot the stuff that's worth selling. But at the end of the day, you're going to have to do your own pricing. The market moves too quickly to maintain a realistic "price" guide, and variants on affix combinations often require a little research and dabbling in the market to get a sale for where you want.
I've been wondering about shields as well. They do seem generally pretty worthless. Not sure how to fix that. 150+ on stats? 200? Even higher crit chance (9 or 10%)?
@Zakaz I never meant for this to be a price guide. I just wanted a quick reference guide for identifying value or not. It's up to you, the player, to find the price.
@Zakaz I never meant for this to be a price guide. I just wanted a quick reference guide for identifying value or not. It's up to you, the player, to find the price.
Oh absolutely, I understand what you're going for - I think it's a great thing. Hopefully it'll help those who really don't know what stats or stat combinations are valuable, at least to the point of pulling in a few extra digits here and there.
I was primarily trying to address the issue that even with a guide for what stats are good relative to others, there's still some manual labor to be done to determine an accurate pricing (generally involving some manual AH searching).
Undergeared Tornado barbs and SC wizards are often seen with shields as they are safe pick and crit chance filler.
Well rolled shields can sell for more than 20 milion. (sold 200 str 150 vit 60 resists and 9.5% crit for 18 recently)
Well see, that's the thing that doesn't make any sense, 20 million for 1 item is far from being undergeared. If they can afford to pay 20 million then they could afford a much better offhand for the same cost. People that buy high-end shields either don't know any better or are doing it to fit their role-playing fantasies.
Also, at this point shields are terrible even for undergeared people of all specs. For any barb or monk, you can find weapons with main stat/vit/900 loh/socket and decent dps for under 1 mill that will give better survival and similar dps to a perfectly rolled shield. For CM wizards (they don't exclusively use SC) they need AP on crit from a source offhand so that they can afford all their casts which include defensive abiltilies.
So as I said before, very well rolled shields will sell but it makes no sense to buy them currently.
Undergeared Tornado barbs and SC wizards are often seen with shields as they are safe pick and crit chance filler.
Well rolled shields can sell for more than 20 milion. (sold 200 str 150 vit 60 resists and 9.5% crit for 18 recently)
Well see, that's the thing that doesn't make any sense, 20 million for 1 item is far from being undergeared. If they can afford to pay 20 million then they could afford a much better offhand for the same cost. People that buy high-end shields either don't know any better or are doing it to fit their role-playing fantasies.
Also, at this point shields are terrible even for undergeared people of all specs. For any barb or monk, you can find weapons with main stat/vit/900 loh/socket and decent dps for under 1 mill that will give better survival and similar dps to a perfectly rolled shield. For CM wizards (they don't exclusively use SC) they need AP on crit from a source offhand so that they can afford all their casts which include defensive abiltilies.
So as I said before, very well rolled shields will sell but it makes no sense to buy them currently.
The assumption you're making it that everyone is playing a whirlwind barb or SC wizard or something similar to those cheese builds.
Off-hand weapons absolutely do not provide the same protection as a shield otherwise would for many specs. Hell the only reason off-hands work so well with those builds is they do absolutely asinine amounts of damage in the first place, amplifying the effects of LoH, crit, etc, such that you don't need much survivability.
Again though, if you aren't playing one of those builds, shields most definitely have a place in this game.
Shields with Main Stat/Vit (75+ is a decent start, 100+ is better), All Resist (60+), Crit (7.5% minimum, 9% is prefered), and ideally %Life will sell in the millions easily, and for good reason.
Personally I think all shields are completely worthless, people will still buy the very top end ones (your main stat/vit/resist are probably too low for shields) but it doesn't make any sense when a 900 loh + socket + stats weapon for the same cost is almost always better.
Shields value will go up after next patch in my opinion, since you can increase the challenge, and i have sold a few rare shields for 2-5mil the last 2 weeks, crit chance, magic find, high block + one or more of these (all res, str, vit) can net a nice sum.
Good job on the worksheet.
It's interesting that you list movement speed as "should have" for boots. No matter how good the affixes are on boots, I just trash them if no moveSpd. Am I missing something?
Good job on the worksheet.
It's interesting that you list movement speed as "should have" for boots. No matter how good the affixes are on boots, I just trash them if no moveSpd. Am I missing something?
My MF Ice climbers without movemen speed sold for 50 mil a few hours ago, so I would say movement speed isn't always necessary.
Good job on the worksheet.
It's interesting that you list movement speed as "should have" for boots. No matter how good the affixes are on boots, I just trash them if no moveSpd. Am I missing something?
My MF Ice climbers without movemen speed sold for 50 mil a few hours ago, so I would say movement speed isn't always necessary.
Iceclimber is a legendary, not a rare.
Any rare boots without movement speed will pretty much be a sitting duck on the AH, unless it's absolutely a perfect roll.
Good job on the worksheet.
It's interesting that you list movement speed as "should have" for boots. No matter how good the affixes are on boots, I just trash them if no moveSpd. Am I missing something?
My MF Ice climbers without movemen speed sold for 50 mil a few hours ago, so I would say movement speed isn't always necessary.
Iceclimber is a legendary, not a rare.
Any rare boots without movement speed will pretty much be a sitting duck on the AH, unless it's absolutely a perfect roll.
Completely false. Movement speed is another stat that's easily over-valued based on a few specific specs, ignoring the other mass of players who either do not use those specs, or are not wealthy enough to afford the 10mil value you've applied to a single affix they can easily do without.
Please stop making generalizations over a single stat, it's almost always incorrect.
Good job on the worksheet.
It's interesting that you list movement speed as "should have" for boots. No matter how good the affixes are on boots, I just trash them if no moveSpd. Am I missing something?
My MF Ice climbers without movemen speed sold for 50 mil a few hours ago, so I would say movement speed isn't always necessary.
Iceclimber is a legendary, not a rare.
True. The 'point I was making is that people still pay good money for well rolled items even if the item is missing a stat that might seem mandatory. Ice climbers sell for 10 times+ what fire walkers do because boots hold more value as defensive/main stat slot item. The boots I sold sold at a 30 mil premium because they had +armor and + fire res. So ya, a well rolled pair of rare boots is sellable even without MS.
While I will give the OP props for making an effort to teach him/herself some pricing ballparks, the spreadsheet should stay a personal tool. If it helps someone to understand certain breakpoints in value for affixes, then great. But for the community, it's teaching a fundamental lesson in a very destructive way.
Yes, people will learn a little bit about valuation. Current valuation. Filtered through one person's subjective filtering of the AH and one person's toons, skill builds and items they've researched. Others will NOT learn how to do it themselves as a repeatable skill. Basically, it gives them a single fish, but doesn't teach them how to fish for themselves.
By learning guidelines and theories and not specific minimums, people will be prepared to price items on their own, in perpetuity.
I do pricing videos on Youtube and it's all about teaching methodologies through many, many examples. It's not about a snapshot of an economy and deducing rules from an all-too-small sample size. When you understand the 'why' of something, you'll be better off.
As the game changes (patch changes, skill changes, content changes, itemization changes, proc introductions, pvp implementation, etc) there will be big swings in gear valuation. A spreadsheet won't help you at all in these situations. But if you understand the audience, the buyer, then you'll understand their needs as a gearset (not a single piece, but overall needs and how to strategically arrange them). Then you can identify areas to exploit and increase your profit.
Just because it's a game doesn't mean it doesn't take work.
I'm not the best or the richest, but I do have a top tier character (according to diabloprogress) and well over 2 billion in gear and gold and a steady cash-out through the RMAH with never a $ put in. And I average three hours a day. It's not because I was lucky with drops. It's from understanding economies. This isn't fun for everyone, nor should it be.
But if you love the game, any game with an economy/AH, then you owe it to yourself to learn more. You only have to learn it once. That knowledge will crossover to any other game economy. A spreadsheet will only teach you a sliver of information about one game. Completely insulated information.
Gameplay and net worth in-game are not mutually exclusive activities
(sorry for the long post, bored on my lunch break)
Completely false. Movement speed is another stat that's easily over-valued based on a few specific specs, ignoring the other mass of players who either do not use those specs, or are not wealthy enough to afford the 10mil value you've applied to a single affix they can easily do without.
Please stop making generalizations over a single stat, it's almost always incorrect.
Movement speed provides a direct benefit to the thing that matters the most: efficiency. It doesn't matter what spec you are, once you become geared enough, you want movement speed to farm faster.
There is a reason why movement speed is so valued on high-end items, it's because it's mandatory to reach top efficiency levels. There is no such thing as "over-priced" in an open market, it's based on demand and the truth of the matter is, movement speed is a desirable to a lot of people.
The reason why rares without movement speed is hard to sell is because it has to compete with set boots, all of which have movement speed.
Yup, movement speed is pretty valuable once you geared up (as he said ^).
Is it overpriced? Might be, but the truth is, if they weren't selling for those prices, chances are they would've dropped steadily over the past couple weeks (since 1.0.4 - which added auction cancels at anytime).
I don't think anyone's saying movement speed doesn't have value, it clearly does. But is it more valuable then AR? Clearly not and it's easy to see by the relative value of the 2 main legendary boots ice climbers and fire walkers. A perfectly rolled pair of rare boots with main stats, AR + MS are very valuable just like the legendary counterparts. Without MS they would still have value, clearly. MS is a secondary stat, required for "godly" boots but Isn't necessary for a pair to be good because as a stat MS holds less value then AR, and primaries and its more likely to be compromised in favor of these other stats. A simple search of the auction and this is easy to see.
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(take spaces out, I guess I can't post URL's yet) -> there you go. Signed: Zero(pS)
So I've got four 60's and I'm still terrible at judging the value of rares. Routinely I'll find something I think would go for over a million and ask on a forum and most people say it's vendor trash. Also, I'm finding that searching the AH for similar items isn't very reliable for pricing things. So I took the criticisms and feedback attempted to create a spreadsheet to help myself weed out all of the worthless items I had in my stash, and to help me judge drops in the future. So far I'm keeping it pretty generic, but I'd love to get feedback on the values I have in there. Thanks!
It looks pretty good for a rough outline.
Personally I think all shields are completely worthless, people will still buy the very top end ones (your main stat/vit/resist are probably too low for shields) but it doesn't make any sense when a 900 loh + socket + stats weapon for the same cost is almost always better.
For caster offhands it tops out at over 500 total +dmg now with ilvl 63 so you really need more like +350 dmg minimum unless it's one of the legendaries with special affixes for silly builds (fun to mess around with but not optimal) and crit is really mandatory.
How accurate do people really expect an open auction house to be? Down to the single digits? If we're talking about selling items for 6 digits and up, does it really matter if pricing is off by a few hundred thousand one way or the other? The higher you go, you have even more wiggle room. At the low end, does it really matter if an item doesn't sell for 500k, but you cut it down to 250k and it sells? Sure, you can say after 10 items you lost a potential 2.5mil, or you can realize that if you're selling enough crap, you would have never had the space to sell stuff long enough to get maximum potential anyway.
I'm all for a "guide" that helps people identify which stats are good, great, better, best, etc, to help spot the stuff that's worth selling. But at the end of the day, you're going to have to do your own pricing. The market moves too quickly to maintain a realistic "price" guide, and variants on affix combinations often require a little research and dabbling in the market to get a sale for where you want.
Selling stuff takes a little work, period.
I've been wondering about shields as well. They do seem generally pretty worthless. Not sure how to fix that. 150+ on stats? 200? Even higher crit chance (9 or 10%)?
Oh absolutely, I understand what you're going for - I think it's a great thing. Hopefully it'll help those who really don't know what stats or stat combinations are valuable, at least to the point of pulling in a few extra digits here and there.
I was primarily trying to address the issue that even with a guide for what stats are good relative to others, there's still some manual labor to be done to determine an accurate pricing (generally involving some manual AH searching).
Also, at this point shields are terrible even for undergeared people of all specs. For any barb or monk, you can find weapons with main stat/vit/900 loh/socket and decent dps for under 1 mill that will give better survival and similar dps to a perfectly rolled shield. For CM wizards (they don't exclusively use SC) they need AP on crit from a source offhand so that they can afford all their casts which include defensive abiltilies.
So as I said before, very well rolled shields will sell but it makes no sense to buy them currently.
The assumption you're making it that everyone is playing a whirlwind barb or SC wizard or something similar to those cheese builds.
Off-hand weapons absolutely do not provide the same protection as a shield otherwise would for many specs. Hell the only reason off-hands work so well with those builds is they do absolutely asinine amounts of damage in the first place, amplifying the effects of LoH, crit, etc, such that you don't need much survivability.
Again though, if you aren't playing one of those builds, shields most definitely have a place in this game.
Shields with Main Stat/Vit (75+ is a decent start, 100+ is better), All Resist (60+), Crit (7.5% minimum, 9% is prefered), and ideally %Life will sell in the millions easily, and for good reason.
It's interesting that you list movement speed as "should have" for boots. No matter how good the affixes are on boots, I just trash them if no moveSpd. Am I missing something?
My MF Ice climbers without movemen speed sold for 50 mil a few hours ago, so I would say movement speed isn't always necessary.
Iceclimber is a legendary, not a rare.
Any rare boots without movement speed will pretty much be a sitting duck on the AH, unless it's absolutely a perfect roll.
Completely false. Movement speed is another stat that's easily over-valued based on a few specific specs, ignoring the other mass of players who either do not use those specs, or are not wealthy enough to afford the 10mil value you've applied to a single affix they can easily do without.
Please stop making generalizations over a single stat, it's almost always incorrect.
True. The 'point I was making is that people still pay good money for well rolled items even if the item is missing a stat that might seem mandatory. Ice climbers sell for 10 times+ what fire walkers do because boots hold more value as defensive/main stat slot item. The boots I sold sold at a 30 mil premium because they had +armor and + fire res. So ya, a well rolled pair of rare boots is sellable even without MS.
Yes, people will learn a little bit about valuation. Current valuation. Filtered through one person's subjective filtering of the AH and one person's toons, skill builds and items they've researched. Others will NOT learn how to do it themselves as a repeatable skill. Basically, it gives them a single fish, but doesn't teach them how to fish for themselves.
By learning guidelines and theories and not specific minimums, people will be prepared to price items on their own, in perpetuity.
I do pricing videos on Youtube and it's all about teaching methodologies through many, many examples. It's not about a snapshot of an economy and deducing rules from an all-too-small sample size. When you understand the 'why' of something, you'll be better off.
As the game changes (patch changes, skill changes, content changes, itemization changes, proc introductions, pvp implementation, etc) there will be big swings in gear valuation. A spreadsheet won't help you at all in these situations. But if you understand the audience, the buyer, then you'll understand their needs as a gearset (not a single piece, but overall needs and how to strategically arrange them). Then you can identify areas to exploit and increase your profit.
Just because it's a game doesn't mean it doesn't take work.
I'm not the best or the richest, but I do have a top tier character (according to diabloprogress) and well over 2 billion in gear and gold and a steady cash-out through the RMAH with never a $ put in. And I average three hours a day. It's not because I was lucky with drops. It's from understanding economies. This isn't fun for everyone, nor should it be.
But if you love the game, any game with an economy/AH, then you owe it to yourself to learn more. You only have to learn it once. That knowledge will crossover to any other game economy. A spreadsheet will only teach you a sliver of information about one game. Completely insulated information.
Gameplay and net worth in-game are not mutually exclusive activities
(sorry for the long post, bored on my lunch break)
Movement speed provides a direct benefit to the thing that matters the most: efficiency. It doesn't matter what spec you are, once you become geared enough, you want movement speed to farm faster.
There is a reason why movement speed is so valued on high-end items, it's because it's mandatory to reach top efficiency levels. There is no such thing as "over-priced" in an open market, it's based on demand and the truth of the matter is, movement speed is a desirable to a lot of people.
The reason why rares without movement speed is hard to sell is because it has to compete with set boots, all of which have movement speed.
Is it overpriced? Might be, but the truth is, if they weren't selling for those prices, chances are they would've dropped steadily over the past couple weeks (since 1.0.4 - which added auction cancels at anytime).