I think along the same lines you do. I have never found a set item, ever. I have yet to see a legendary since the new patch. My monk runs with 200%mf unbuffed. The legendary, set, legendary plans, gem plans drop rates are simply horrible. However my opinion. I had a friend come back recently, no paragon lvls no mf, killed one elite pack and got a 1200dps 599 int legendary.. Luck I understand, but I have almost 4000 more elite pack kills then him and nothing to show for it.
Well, yeah, that is the main issue. Luck is not fair at all. xD
But let's say the system stays the same. We still have these drop rates and everything. With one small exception: Blizzard introduces a bind on account type of items for rares and to a smaller extent maybe even the legendaries. The chances to get one would still be as low as finding a usable rare or legendary item now (maybe a bit higher from the bosses, with the nephalem valor buff), but once they drop, the stats and affixes these items roll are not nearly as random, and are mostly very useful to a class. You cannot sell or trade them to other players, you can only move them between your own characters or salvage/vendor them.
You now have an extra incentive to farm and actually feel like you might from time to time find an upgrade or two for yourself, and not for someone else.
I understand that bound items are not in the spirit of Diablo, but they could very much improve the fun of the grind if done properly, and to me they represent a good idea to balance out the usage of the AH by the players.
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
So you're telling me that this loot system was not made to make the AH more viable and popular? That they did not lower the drop chances of set items and legendaries to nearly zero, made affixes almost completely random, made bosses mean nothing, with no regards to the AH? Really?
<snip>
I never said Blizzard was trying to hurt the game on purpose or whatever, but it is painfully obvious they had AH in mind, and very much so, when they were working on the loot and the drop rates. And that the time you have to spend playing in order to get a good drop for your character is just too high for an ARPG game, because of the ultra randomness of everything.
No, I don't think that is anywhere close to the realm of accuracy - at all.
You can't have a game where all items are tradeable and be so ignorant and out-of-touch with reality to think "hey, let's just make everything drop all the time, these people are too stupid to actually trade items!"
You seem to want a nonexistant economy where all items are BoP (or at least BoA) so that the drop rates can be jacked through the roof to satisfy your personal need to see a "good item" every X hours - whatever that arbitrary value may be. You literally want to take a game which may not be perfect, but is far from broken, unplayable, or otherwise ruined by the AH, and blow it up into something that suits your personal desires.
While feedback is always appreciated, you have to see what you are doing. You're not giving feedback. You are pissing and moaning about a conspiracy theory about how the game was designed to force you to use the AH. Nothing you're saying is productive, nothing you are saying has any ability to be discussed because the only thing you're willing to accept as a solution is buffed droprates.
A Diablo game where everything is BoP so that they can jack the droprates up so that a few people who are apeshit about not being able to find everything for themselves is not going to work because that's entirely disengenuous to the franchise.
I've found that karma is a bitch. It's no wonder that someone with such a negative attitude about the game doesn't get loot. If you'd just chill out, play the game, enjoy it for what it is (instead of lamenting why it's not 100% what pleases you), you might actually find that the game isn't as bad as you think it is.
As a parting philosophical thought... The glass is both half empty and half full at the same time. It is not the fault of the glass if you choose to only see one or the other, that is the fault of the onlooker for refusing to acknowledge anything that doesn't adhere to their own predetermined opinions.
No, I don't think that is anywhere close to the realm of accuracy - at all.
You can't have a game where all items are tradeable and be so ignorant and out-of-touch with reality to think "hey, let's just make everything drop all the time, these people are too stupid to actually trade items!"
You seem to want a nonexistant economy where all items are BoP (or at least BoA) so that the drop rates can be jacked through the roof to satisfy your personal need to see a "good item" every X hours - whatever that arbitrary value may be. You literally want to take a game which may not be perfect, but is far from broken, unplayable, or otherwise ruined by the AH, and blow it up into something that suits your personal desires.
While feedback is always appreciated, you have to see what you are doing. You're not giving feedback. You are pissing and moaning about a conspiracy theory about how the game was designed to force you to use the AH. Nothing you're saying is productive, nothing you are saying has any ability to be discussed because the only thing you're willing to accept as a solution is buffed droprates.
A Diablo game where everything is BoP so that they can jack the droprates up so that a few people who are apeshit about not being able to find everything for themselves is not going to work because that's entirely disengenuous to the franchise.
I've found that karma is a bitch. It's no wonder that someone with such a negative attitude about the game doesn't get loot. If you'd just chill out, play the game, enjoy it for what it is (instead of lamenting why it's not 100% what pleases you), you might actually find that the game isn't as bad as you think it is.
As a parting philosophical thought... The glass is both half empty and half full at the same time. It is not the fault of the glass if you choose to only see one or the other, that is the fault of the onlooker for refusing to acknowledge anything that doesn't adhere to their own predetermined opinions.
Woah, I don't like to say something like this to anyone posting around here, but what a load of nicely wrapped crap. And you're saying that I have a negative attitude... Where exactly have I talked about these conspiracies, hating the game, or wanting all of the items in game to be BOA? Why are you making up such stuff?
I've only spoken a few facts and gave sincere opinions, while presenting an idea of BOA items with lower drop rate then regular rares, but having the lowest range on which the affixes can roll be higher then on regular rare items. Nothing more. Never said it was the perfect or the only possible solution. The items would never be purely for your class, and they could still not be much of use to you, but the chance of them being right for you would be slightly higher. The economy would always stay strong, and farming would be more fun for everyone. That is nowhere near 'pissing and moaning', it is closer to feedback than anything you contributed here.
Also, I've quite enjoyed Diablo 3, and have defended it since release, both on these and official Blizzard's forums. I've expressed my love towards the effort Blizzard is putting into the patches that came and are coming soon. I find the gameplay to be amazing, but the game itself to be very linear and having a flawed loot distribution. And I'll stand by those statements any day. If you try to farm all of the pieces of any of the sets in game by yourself, let me know how that went.
Because the auction house DOES in fact affect the drop rates, and I'll let Bashiok himself end this debate.
"The auction house obviously provides an incredible service to allow for very easy trades between characters, and essentially blows out the wide range of items you could have available to you at any one time. So, in fact, the AH has to be a factor in how we drop items. On one hand you have a huge benefit because you can buy and sell items very easily, as opposed to having to post up WTS threads in the old USEast trading forums, but on the other end it does impact the item pool economy with the inherent ease at which you can trade items. If the AH existed but wasn't a factor at all into how items dropped/rolled, the economy would be completely tanked within a matter of weeks."
You're the one not wanting to acknowledge the truth, not me.
Karma doesn't exist (obvious to anyone who cares to think twice about the idea, while looking at their or other people's lives), especially in a programmed game, only RNG does. My attitude towards Diablo 3 has no effect on what kind of loot I get, it's all in the math that went into creating the system.
And a 'few people' is actually http://www.mmo-champ...e-auction-house quite the majority of players, even if the sample here is a small one. No one I personally know who plays the game has farmed their gear. Maybe a piece or two here and there, but the AH is always the primary source of gear, because great upgrades can be attained extremely cheaply, instantly, while farming takes an extreme amount of time for a game of this genre.
Now do some philosophical thinking about who the onlooker here is.
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
I ignored you so that I can attempt to craft a rational response without getting suckered into more shit-slinging. This will be my last post in response to you.
For every negative you can drum up I can drum up a positive. I have a group of friends and not all of them are as progressed/geared as I am. I enjoy being able to link them items and sometimes I've even found things that are upgrades for them and it makes us both very happy - they're insanely grateful that I'd consider giving them an item instead of trying to monetize it, and I actually feel like I've done something decent for someone else. They get a kick out of linking me gear and asking if any of my alts want it.
There are reasons, reasons beyond "the AH is good," for items to remain tradeable. Being able to pass items between characters (be it on the AH, or through the trade window, or simply by dropping it on the ground amongst a trusted group of people for a friend to pick up) is inherent to the game. It's one of the things that people have grown to identify the Diablo series with. Admittedly the AH removes some of the "social" aspects of trade games, but making every item BoP so that we can justify guaranteeing that items are good... sorry, this isn't Skyrim. It's a game that lots of people enjoy playing in a social manner.
Hell, this website even has a weekly item giveaway which this whole BoP "movement" would destroy. It would kill so many of those little things that we never notice, but when taken away we think "man, I miss posting and hoping that I'd win those unidentified rares from DiabloFans." It's a classic case of the grass being greener on the other side.
Perhaps it's because I know several people who don't actually "play" WoW, but who get a great deal of pleasure from playing the AH mini-game that I find it silly for someone to insinuate that their pleasure supercedes that of others, or that it's impossible to enjoy D3 so long as the AH is a part of it. If you can't enjoy D3 what is the purpose in suggesting solutions that would, without a doubt, ruin much of the game for other people? Do you have no solution to your ennui that doesn't involve such a severe modification to something that has basically been the bedrock foundation of the franchise?
While I will apologize for being unnecessarily harsh with you, I will not be repentant for maintaining the opinion that you are very much convinced that the grass in the other yard is eleven shades more green than the grass in your own yard and that just a few months after switching yards you'll realize that the color of the grass isn't all that different. It's just about perception. And I won't be sorry for telling you that we didn't find all our own items in D2 either.
I traded for almost all of my Necro's gear in D2 - big whoop, I still enjoyed the fuck out of the game. I've bought all of my WDs gear on the GAH - big whoop, I still enjoy the fuck out of the game. Why? Becuase I don't let it get to me. Would I be happier if I found all my own gear? Possibly. But I'm sure that would also ensure that I wouldn't get that rush when I found out that I just sold an item for 7, 8, 9, even 10 figures on the AH. So for all the bad that the AH is, according to you, I still manage to see the positive. Selling an item for 50 million gold still gives me a rush, it feels good, it feels rewarding. It's acknowledgement that I found something that has value, even if I wasn't able to use it. That is empowering and rewarding in its own right.
Like I said before - if you're convinced that the glass is half empty and there is no way that it could possibly be half full then you'll never understand how it's both at the same time. You are clearly of the mind that a half-empty glass cannot possibly, ever, under any circumstances, also be half-full. If you were, you'd know just how inflammatory your idea of BoP items are to some of us because you're stomping all over things that some of us happen to find very enjoyable just because you hate the AH.
For the record, to keep some perspective on myself...
All my WDs gear has come from the GAH - I consider him my "main."
The vast majority of the gear my alts are wearing has come from farming on other toons or as gifts from friends. Very little of the gear they are wearing has come from the GAH.
TL;DR
I support your right to identify things you don't like and to attempt to propose solutions. My main issue with your "solution," which I probably didn't articulate one bit in previous posts, is that it very much infringes upon facets of the game that I (and others) find enjoyable. Surely you can solve your problem without making the game less enjoyable for others.
Shaggy, I think you might be misunderstanding part of what has been suggested.
I don't think some people are arguing that a majority of the drop game becomes BoP or BoE. I think they're just advocating the possibility of integrating this system into the current drop system, with a very low drop rate, but with a higher chance of it being a gear useable for your character and with a higher chance of it containing desireable stats, or even just a higher chance of seeing a legendary/set.
Even it it was something like 2-4% of our drops during a 1 hour session, I think this idea has a considerable potential to making the game more enjoyable (from a looting perspective) without ruining the current AH economy (which it would if it wasn't BoP).
As I said in my previous post though, this is a very complex system that would require a ton of coding, testing and balancing. I really like the idea if well implemented (as I definitely want to be able to see some Legendaries and Sets drop) but I personally believe it just won't happen (maybe in an expansion).
I have to completely and vehemently disagree with BoP items.
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing something like the old torch system in D2 where if you spent enough time farming certain bosses you'd pick up keys to unlock "hardmode" bosses which would eventually lead to uber diablo that had a guaranteed chance to drop a legendary. Obviously charms were a terrible idea and I don't want them back... but at least you could conceivably progress towards something every gameplay session.
The real problem that I have with loot because they've gone and made primary stats SOOOO important, (so much more than d2) we're required to focus on having them on every piece (plus all resist on almost every piece... something we didn't have to worry about as much in d2 with capped resists.)
Without looking up the modifiers, I think most mods have between 5 and 10 levels on them. If there was a cut off for the modifier based upon ilvl of the item, say a ilvl 63 yellow can only roll str 5-10 (lets say 100-300) we could greatly increase the odds of finding your own upgrades. They could even weight the high end of the rolls against being selected in this case (lets say 40% of the time 5 gets selected, 25% 6, 15% 7, etc.)
As it sits now running with just over 200 mf a standard act 3 run will net a haul of about 2 full packs 61+ rares. Of that, I _might_ average finding a single item that is worth even trying to sell. This isn't compelling gameplay to me. I frequently ID rares and say to myself "man if it had one more modifier..." or "wow that would be pretty good if the rolls were slightly better" and then proceed to salvage my entire haul.
Ah, finally one post from you that I've actually felt was not completely written in some sort of blind rage towards me. I can even understand some of your points now, and acknowledge them. Thanks for that.
You still seem to think that I'm a pessimist though, but I think that If I were, I would not be suggesting ways to improve the overall good experience of Diablo 3, I would be whining about how much the game sucks or something in those lines. The glass is very much half-full on this side of the fence, my friend. I just want it to get filled sooner than later.
Also, it seems you still haven't understood that in my idea only a very small portion of found items would be BOP, and that it would probably not interfere much with people who love to play the auction house, and who feel satisfied by amassing a huge amount of gold by smart ways of buying/selling items.
If your main is geared fully with the GAH, and you found that satisfying, and your alts are geared with farmed items, and you found that enjoyable too, I just can't see how a BOP item or two from time to time would make your experience any less fun, especially when a large group of players feels the farming is not nearly rewarding enough in it's current state.
Right now the gold you can make on the AH is the only thing that feels at least somewhat satisfying, but improving the loot so it can also feel more natural, is in my opinion a very reasonable concern at this point. Diablo is, after all, all about loot grind, not gold grind.
I believe that at some point in the future Blizzard will address this issue, in a way that may be completely different than this idea. By some of their latest comments, it seems that they realized how the AH overshadows the farming too much. That's when the idea of BOP came into play, because it's a clever solution that would not break the economy, like a simple drop rate increase of all items would. It would be difficult to pull off, yes, but doable. If they can come up with something better and less interfering with the other aspects of the game, I'm all for that.
Zero pretty much summed up my thoughts, and made them more understandable. Thanks, man. No need for me to go on any further in explaining them now I guess. English is not my main language, so I apologize if some of the sentences I've written have confused you.
Peace.
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
Diablo is, after all, all about loot grind, not gold grind.
This is where I fundamentally disagree.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with monetizing items that you cannot use and then using those monies to upgrade your gear as you see fit. You, at the heart of it, are still just farming for good items.
I get just as excited from finding a great item, whether or not I can use it. My hunt is not limited just to items I can equip and that's where I diverge. There are a lot of people who seem to only define the item hunt as finding items they, personally, can use. I am hunting for great items, no stipulations. I'm not going to narrow the scope of the "item hunt" down to something that purposefully makes me miserable.
I bought my MH weapon for 100k. At the time it should have been at least 1 million gold, and more probably in the 1.5-2 million range. I am still proud of that. I think that was as much of a triumph as finding something leet myself. It all boils down to "right place, right time" so why not enjoy it instead of trying to figure out the fine distinctions and restricting your happiness to only a small subset of what equates to nothing more than "luck."
It just comes back to what I view as nothing other than unnecessary pessimism.
If you want to "fix" loot there are still ways to do it without adding BoP items to the game. I can think of at least four different ways off-hand, two of which Dasidarius already mentioned. Ways that don't have such an effect on anything other than the quality of loot. We don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater and, I feel, that's exactly what moving away from all items being tradeable does.
If I find a really great Barbarian item I want to be able to give it to my Barbarian friend if it's an upgrade for him. I don't want to be cockblocked because it was one of those 2-4% of items that were BoP. That's atrociously not fun especially when there are other solutions to the perceived problem.
I bought my main weapon for 25k just the other day, laughed so hard when I stumbled upon it, almost couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing. That item was worth a couple of million gold at least and getting it for an amount of gold equivalent to what I would farm from one serious pack of mobs is kind of underwhelming, when I think about it. Because I would most probably have to farm dozens of hours to see something similar drop for myself. That tends to lead to thoughts of grinding being too much of a waste of time. And that kind of thing doesn't leave your mind easily.
Yes, it was the "right place at the right time" moment, and for that moment I was thrilled, but it also made me feel kind of bad after some time, when I looked at how much I've been trying to find something like that before I stumbled upon it at the AH and got it for a measly amount of gold. I guess it will never be as exciting for me as identifying a great item by myself. But that is just a personal preference of mine, I guess.
Hope you get my point.
And hey, I'm all open for ideas. Never said mine was perfect or definite. If you present a better solution, I'd be extremely excited to read it through and think about the way it would work best in-game. But you must admit that it's so much harder to farm your gear than buy it for gold. Almost ridiculously harder. Things need to balance out. Nothing wrong with monetizing your items, but it should not be the main driving force behind Diablo. Or we will have to agree to disagree on this one. xD
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
If I took the time to farm a full set that would let me farm gear in Act 3 by myself, how many hours would that take? In that many hours, how much gold would I make? With that much gold, would I be able to upgrade most of my gear by a significant margin in the AH?
The first answer is TOO long. The second answer is quite a bit if I AH everything that sells for 50k or more. The third answer is a big fat probably.
Therefore, even if you are farming your gear, you are grinding gold more effectively. The amount of gold passively farmed while looking for gear is capable of upgrading all your gear before you find ONE upgrade. That makes the whole thing have the wrong feel. I constantly feel like I'm an unpaid gold farmer instead of a gamer.
A valued currency and medium of exchange that is NOT a SOJ is an admitted relief. In my opinion, the function of that should be to supplement a problematic slot or two where maybe you found two legs and three gloves but never found a chest. Alternatively, if you are a fresh 60 with funds, go nuts and buy a full kit if you don't like Act 1 or Act 2. It shouldn't feel like that is the default choice, however, and you shouldn't feel that you cannot be reward unless you visit the AH. I think many of us (outside of the blatant whiners who make their appearances at times) are ok with going slower. We enjoy killing mobs and feeling like we earned our gear vs skipping to the end. That still has to feel rewarding, however.
400+ hours and I have no toon above level 45 who is wearing something that dropped for me. I have never paid more than 500k (a weapon) and other than the one item, I have never paid more than 100k. My gear is not good. It's marginal at best and I haven't found upgrades. There is something wrong with a loot system when I don't have any excitement about ID'ing anything. When I have never ID'd something and thought "cool", much less "wow!" in 400+ hours.
Very nicely put, mate. I don't feel like I could add anything to that post. But I would very much like to read through some of your more creative thoughts on this subject.
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
my thoughts: 90% of ideads from the forum are better than what is in game now, but blizzards do not give a fuck about uhappy minority, that acts like this game is a mmo
Really? I have the exact opposite impression - 90% of ideas proposed on the forums to "fix" D3 are far worse than the current game. This one for example.
If I took the time to farm a full set that would let me farm gear in Act 3 by myself, how many hours would that take? In that many hours, how much gold would I make? With that much gold, would I be able to upgrade most of my gear by a significant margin in the AH?
The first answer is TOO long. The second answer is quite a bit if I AH everything that sells for 50k or more. The third answer is a big fat probably.
I don't understand what you're saying. To me it sounds like you're saying that gold drops comprise too much of a players wealth and that allows them to circumvent the droprate on items. Based on my, personal, experience, I'd have to very strongly disagree.
I have almost 500 hours played and five toons at 60.
I am just inching up on 23 million gold looted.
My total earnings, factoring in RMAH sales at the current $$$ to gold rate, is just under 400 million gold.
I still have several millions worth of gold in items sitting in my bank to sell.
The majority of my wealth (over 90%) has come from selling items to other players and not from picking it up off the ground - and that's skewed because I've never had a MF set, which would clearly throw an even higher percentage of my wealth to the "items found" category. And that's not factoring in that all my AH sales take a 15% hit, so I'm only truly earning 85% on them, which would push it closer to 95% of my wealth from found items versus 5% from dropped gold.
So, if I'm finding items that have value to other people, but not to me, I simply do not understand how that is somehow circumventing the drop rates. It's patently clear that my wealth is coming from drops and not from gold piles. So how exactly am I gearing up faster than intended? This is no different than real life. If you find an old Cy Young rookie card in your attic and sell it at auction for a tidy sum and use that money to buy a sports car that you, otherwise, wouldn't have been able to afford - what would your reaction be if some guy out in the parking lot told you that you didn't put in enough hours at the factory to afford that car? You'd think he was a raging, presumptuous, douchebag.
Obviously what I'm saying does not apply to bots since they're kinda ... well ... cheating to obtain their wealth. But for the average person who is able to sell items on the AH (I have a pair of legs up that I didn't think I'd even get 50k for, but which are now over 1.5 million bid) how is anyone going to coyly insinuate that using their riches to purchase things from others is somehow gamebreaking?
I've found 1 set item, countless legendaries (many of which are post-1.0.4), JC and BS patterns, and some really awesome rares and oddly enough all but one of those legendaries has come from a white mob. To make me think that you've gone 400 hours without finding one item that got you excited makes me wonder what the hell you're actually doing, or more likely that you've set your expectations far too high. I get excited every single time I see orange/green text. I get excited any time I see a yellow 63, or a yellow amulet/ring. Like I have said a hundred times - if you're only going to see things in a negative light then you're never, ever, going to understand the positive in a situation.
For all the time I've invested in this game I still have a LONG way to go before I can plow through Act 3, or before I'm wearing anything close to top-end gear. I have many, many, many, many hours ahead of me. It will easily be close to 1000 hours before I'm maxed pLvls and have a gearset that I'm truly content with. Isn't that sufficient time investment?
400+ hours and I have no toon above level 45 who is wearing something that dropped for me. I have never paid more than 500k (a weapon) and other than the one item, I have never paid more than 100k. My gear is not good. It's marginal at best and I haven't found upgrades. There is something wrong with a loot system when I don't have any excitement about ID'ing anything. When I have never ID'd something and thought "cool", much less "wow!" in 400+ hours.
First let me say I understand your points and that what you say has truth to it. Now, that out of the way I find it so very very very hard to believe you have 400+ hours in this game and you have no 45+ heroes with a single self-found-wearable piece among them. I have maybe half your time invested and I would estimate 70% of my gear is self found. I have 3 60's and will have my 4th in the next week or so with a stash full of gear waiting for him. Again all self found.
Now, please don't misunderstand, I am not saying you are lying, you really have nothing to gain by doing so, and obviously I can't prove or disprove your claims. I feel though, in my heart of hearts, that your experience is not the norm and I don't know what but it seems like you are doing something wrong.
I have said it before and while some people vehemently disagree with it, it's our own personal expectations that tend to ruin experiences. If I were a betting man, which I'm not really, I would be willing to bet that you have identified countless good to great items. All you are focusing on is the top 1% (warning anecdotal statistic) and when you don't see that you come to the conclusion that something must be wrong. If that is not the case, then so be it.
Case in point I was running with a buddy of mine last night and a 2 hand axe dropped. It had 292ish strength, 190ish vitality, 1000ish Life on hit, something else that I don't remember and a socket. DPS was modest at mid 800's. His main is a barb and my soon to be 60 is a barb that is using a 2-hand spec. I figured he would keep the weapon since it was solid and was a clear upgrade but he gave it to me because he is only looking for that top 1% of gear. The point to this story is that he is so focused on such a small percent of gear that he completely overlooked a really good item. TLDR; tunnel vision is dangerous mistress.
Anyway this is getting long now but I just felt compelled to comment. Hopefully you will find that first piece of usable gear soon!
I think the point in all these kind of threads are:
- Ppl who like the "AH game", are in favor of the current system, a personal opinion, young ones (<20 years old)
- Ppl who like the "drop game" are in need of a change of the current system, a personal opinion, more old ones (25>) and ex-diablo players.
Im in the second group, I only find this game fun when I id something and I say: "nice!!". But, I understand that there are some ppl who like to play the "AH game", its jut not for me.
If I took the time to farm a full set that would let me farm gear in Act 3 by myself, how many hours would that take? In that many hours, how much gold would I make? With that much gold, would I be able to upgrade most of my gear by a significant margin in the AH?
The first answer is TOO long. The second answer is quite a bit if I AH everything that sells for 50k or more. The third answer is a big fat probably.
Therefore, even if you are farming your gear, you are grinding gold more effectively. The amount of gold passively farmed while looking for gear is capable of upgrading all your gear before you find ONE upgrade. That makes the whole thing have the wrong feel. I constantly feel like I'm an unpaid gold farmer instead of a gamer.
Also, this applies today, but you really weren't going to just farm gold to get gear for Act 1 Inferno back in the first, say 2-3 weeks of the game. The items that are selling for 20-50k now were selling for 500k then. I almost die of laughter when I think of some of the items I bought and what they cost me then versus now. But, really, this has more to do with the ever-increasing supply of items and less to do with the ever-increasing supply of gold.
As your gold goes through inflation so do prices. What once cost $2.00 now costs $2.25, but you got a raise at work so it's practically a wash. So, in reality, if the AH were being dominated by gold inflation you would see prices steadily rising. But, generally, you see prices steadily decreasing. Why? Because the AH is dominated by supply and not by inflation. The uber-rare items are still insanely expensive because they are uber-rare. The not-so-rare stuff has a very strong supply and just can't keep its value.
So, while it's great to argue that you can now get into Act 1 Inferno with gold you've picked up while leveling and try to portray that as a failure in the drop rate, it's not. At this point, due to how long I've been farming Inferno on my WD, all four of my other 60s have gear sufficient to clear Act 2 Inferno just on hand-me-down kind of stuff. That should tell you something about the availibility of items. The "good enough to clear" gear is ridiculously inexpensive because it's common as all hell. The "good enough to really efficiently farm" gear is still quite expensive and the "ultimate gear" is out of almost everyone's price range except the very rich.
That sounds pretty much like what we would have expected with this many people playing for 3 1/2 months now and very little in terms of items being removed from the economy, though... right?
In just a very small fansite thread, even mentioning the possibility of having BoP/BoE in D3 is already seen as a bad (and WoW-ish) thing. So yeah, I don't think most of the playerbase would like this
What exactly is wrong with Diablos' loot system? I don't see it.
My ONLY problem with D3's loot system is the fact that I keep getting tons of iLVL<56 drops in Inferno. IMO Blizz should remove the possibility for anything less than iLVL 56 or so to drop, even if that change is only made in A3 & A4. I mean if I am farming A3 & A4 why on earth would I be remotely happy with getting an iLVL 51 drop... That's the only thing that drives me absolutely crazy. As for drop rates themselves and the RNG, I am fine with how it works.
That sounds pretty much like what we would have expected with this many people playing for 3 1/2 months now and very little in terms of items being removed from the economy, though... right?
Not if there was no AH.
Because D2-style trading is such a hassle, it's only really worth doing when dealing with rare and super-rare stuff, leaving the players to find their own mid-level gear, which is much more satisfying than buying it.
So your complaint is "I don't want to be forced to use the AH." And your solution is "force anyone who uses the AH to play my way."
I think the point in all these kind of threads are:
- Ppl who like the "AH game", are in favor of the current system, a personal opinion, young ones (<20 years old)
- Ppl who like the "drop game" are in need of a change of the current system, a personal opinion, more old ones (25>) and ex-diablo players.
Arrant nonsense. I'm waaaaay older than 25, played Diablo 2 for years, and am in the first category.
Why don't you just simplify your statement and say "if you agree with me you're smart, if you disagree you're stupid and naive"? That's basically your assertion, isn't it?
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Well, yeah, that is the main issue. Luck is not fair at all. xD
But let's say the system stays the same. We still have these drop rates and everything. With one small exception: Blizzard introduces a bind on account type of items for rares and to a smaller extent maybe even the legendaries. The chances to get one would still be as low as finding a usable rare or legendary item now (maybe a bit higher from the bosses, with the nephalem valor buff), but once they drop, the stats and affixes these items roll are not nearly as random, and are mostly very useful to a class. You cannot sell or trade them to other players, you can only move them between your own characters or salvage/vendor them.
You now have an extra incentive to farm and actually feel like you might from time to time find an upgrade or two for yourself, and not for someone else.
I understand that bound items are not in the spirit of Diablo, but they could very much improve the fun of the grind if done properly, and to me they represent a good idea to balance out the usage of the AH by the players.
No, I don't think that is anywhere close to the realm of accuracy - at all.
You can't have a game where all items are tradeable and be so ignorant and out-of-touch with reality to think "hey, let's just make everything drop all the time, these people are too stupid to actually trade items!"
You seem to want a nonexistant economy where all items are BoP (or at least BoA) so that the drop rates can be jacked through the roof to satisfy your personal need to see a "good item" every X hours - whatever that arbitrary value may be. You literally want to take a game which may not be perfect, but is far from broken, unplayable, or otherwise ruined by the AH, and blow it up into something that suits your personal desires.
While feedback is always appreciated, you have to see what you are doing. You're not giving feedback. You are pissing and moaning about a conspiracy theory about how the game was designed to force you to use the AH. Nothing you're saying is productive, nothing you are saying has any ability to be discussed because the only thing you're willing to accept as a solution is buffed droprates.
A Diablo game where everything is BoP so that they can jack the droprates up so that a few people who are apeshit about not being able to find everything for themselves is not going to work because that's entirely disengenuous to the franchise.
I've found that karma is a bitch. It's no wonder that someone with such a negative attitude about the game doesn't get loot. If you'd just chill out, play the game, enjoy it for what it is (instead of lamenting why it's not 100% what pleases you), you might actually find that the game isn't as bad as you think it is.
As a parting philosophical thought... The glass is both half empty and half full at the same time. It is not the fault of the glass if you choose to only see one or the other, that is the fault of the onlooker for refusing to acknowledge anything that doesn't adhere to their own predetermined opinions.
Woah, I don't like to say something like this to anyone posting around here, but what a load of nicely wrapped crap. And you're saying that I have a negative attitude... Where exactly have I talked about these conspiracies, hating the game, or wanting all of the items in game to be BOA? Why are you making up such stuff?
I've only spoken a few facts and gave sincere opinions, while presenting an idea of BOA items with lower drop rate then regular rares, but having the lowest range on which the affixes can roll be higher then on regular rare items. Nothing more. Never said it was the perfect or the only possible solution. The items would never be purely for your class, and they could still not be much of use to you, but the chance of them being right for you would be slightly higher. The economy would always stay strong, and farming would be more fun for everyone. That is nowhere near 'pissing and moaning', it is closer to feedback than anything you contributed here.
Also, I've quite enjoyed Diablo 3, and have defended it since release, both on these and official Blizzard's forums. I've expressed my love towards the effort Blizzard is putting into the patches that came and are coming soon. I find the gameplay to be amazing, but the game itself to be very linear and having a flawed loot distribution. And I'll stand by those statements any day. If you try to farm all of the pieces of any of the sets in game by yourself, let me know how that went.
Because the auction house DOES in fact affect the drop rates, and I'll let Bashiok himself end this debate.
"The auction house obviously provides an incredible service to allow for very easy trades between characters, and essentially blows out the wide range of items you could have available to you at any one time. So, in fact, the AH has to be a factor in how we drop items. On one hand you have a huge benefit because you can buy and sell items very easily, as opposed to having to post up WTS threads in the old USEast trading forums, but on the other end it does impact the item pool economy with the inherent ease at which you can trade items. If the AH existed but wasn't a factor at all into how items dropped/rolled, the economy would be completely tanked within a matter of weeks."
You're the one not wanting to acknowledge the truth, not me.
Karma doesn't exist (obvious to anyone who cares to think twice about the idea, while looking at their or other people's lives), especially in a programmed game, only RNG does. My attitude towards Diablo 3 has no effect on what kind of loot I get, it's all in the math that went into creating the system.
And a 'few people' is actually http://www.mmo-champ...e-auction-house quite the majority of players, even if the sample here is a small one. No one I personally know who plays the game has farmed their gear. Maybe a piece or two here and there, but the AH is always the primary source of gear, because great upgrades can be attained extremely cheaply, instantly, while farming takes an extreme amount of time for a game of this genre.
Now do some philosophical thinking about who the onlooker here is.
For every negative you can drum up I can drum up a positive. I have a group of friends and not all of them are as progressed/geared as I am. I enjoy being able to link them items and sometimes I've even found things that are upgrades for them and it makes us both very happy - they're insanely grateful that I'd consider giving them an item instead of trying to monetize it, and I actually feel like I've done something decent for someone else. They get a kick out of linking me gear and asking if any of my alts want it.
There are reasons, reasons beyond "the AH is good," for items to remain tradeable. Being able to pass items between characters (be it on the AH, or through the trade window, or simply by dropping it on the ground amongst a trusted group of people for a friend to pick up) is inherent to the game. It's one of the things that people have grown to identify the Diablo series with. Admittedly the AH removes some of the "social" aspects of trade games, but making every item BoP so that we can justify guaranteeing that items are good... sorry, this isn't Skyrim. It's a game that lots of people enjoy playing in a social manner.
Hell, this website even has a weekly item giveaway which this whole BoP "movement" would destroy. It would kill so many of those little things that we never notice, but when taken away we think "man, I miss posting and hoping that I'd win those unidentified rares from DiabloFans." It's a classic case of the grass being greener on the other side.
Perhaps it's because I know several people who don't actually "play" WoW, but who get a great deal of pleasure from playing the AH mini-game that I find it silly for someone to insinuate that their pleasure supercedes that of others, or that it's impossible to enjoy D3 so long as the AH is a part of it. If you can't enjoy D3 what is the purpose in suggesting solutions that would, without a doubt, ruin much of the game for other people? Do you have no solution to your ennui that doesn't involve such a severe modification to something that has basically been the bedrock foundation of the franchise?
While I will apologize for being unnecessarily harsh with you, I will not be repentant for maintaining the opinion that you are very much convinced that the grass in the other yard is eleven shades more green than the grass in your own yard and that just a few months after switching yards you'll realize that the color of the grass isn't all that different. It's just about perception. And I won't be sorry for telling you that we didn't find all our own items in D2 either.
I traded for almost all of my Necro's gear in D2 - big whoop, I still enjoyed the fuck out of the game. I've bought all of my WDs gear on the GAH - big whoop, I still enjoy the fuck out of the game. Why? Becuase I don't let it get to me. Would I be happier if I found all my own gear? Possibly. But I'm sure that would also ensure that I wouldn't get that rush when I found out that I just sold an item for 7, 8, 9, even 10 figures on the AH. So for all the bad that the AH is, according to you, I still manage to see the positive. Selling an item for 50 million gold still gives me a rush, it feels good, it feels rewarding. It's acknowledgement that I found something that has value, even if I wasn't able to use it. That is empowering and rewarding in its own right.
Like I said before - if you're convinced that the glass is half empty and there is no way that it could possibly be half full then you'll never understand how it's both at the same time. You are clearly of the mind that a half-empty glass cannot possibly, ever, under any circumstances, also be half-full. If you were, you'd know just how inflammatory your idea of BoP items are to some of us because you're stomping all over things that some of us happen to find very enjoyable just because you hate the AH.
For the record, to keep some perspective on myself...
All my WDs gear has come from the GAH - I consider him my "main."
The vast majority of the gear my alts are wearing has come from farming on other toons or as gifts from friends. Very little of the gear they are wearing has come from the GAH.
TL;DR
I support your right to identify things you don't like and to attempt to propose solutions. My main issue with your "solution," which I probably didn't articulate one bit in previous posts, is that it very much infringes upon facets of the game that I (and others) find enjoyable. Surely you can solve your problem without making the game less enjoyable for others.
I don't think some people are arguing that a majority of the drop game becomes BoP or BoE. I think they're just advocating the possibility of integrating this system into the current drop system, with a very low drop rate, but with a higher chance of it being a gear useable for your character and with a higher chance of it containing desireable stats, or even just a higher chance of seeing a legendary/set.
Even it it was something like 2-4% of our drops during a 1 hour session, I think this idea has a considerable potential to making the game more enjoyable (from a looting perspective) without ruining the current AH economy (which it would if it wasn't BoP).
As I said in my previous post though, this is a very complex system that would require a ton of coding, testing and balancing. I really like the idea if well implemented (as I definitely want to be able to see some Legendaries and Sets drop) but I personally believe it just won't happen (maybe in an expansion).
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing something like the old torch system in D2 where if you spent enough time farming certain bosses you'd pick up keys to unlock "hardmode" bosses which would eventually lead to uber diablo that had a guaranteed chance to drop a legendary. Obviously charms were a terrible idea and I don't want them back... but at least you could conceivably progress towards something every gameplay session.
The real problem that I have with loot because they've gone and made primary stats SOOOO important, (so much more than d2) we're required to focus on having them on every piece (plus all resist on almost every piece... something we didn't have to worry about as much in d2 with capped resists.)
Without looking up the modifiers, I think most mods have between 5 and 10 levels on them. If there was a cut off for the modifier based upon ilvl of the item, say a ilvl 63 yellow can only roll str 5-10 (lets say 100-300) we could greatly increase the odds of finding your own upgrades. They could even weight the high end of the rolls against being selected in this case (lets say 40% of the time 5 gets selected, 25% 6, 15% 7, etc.)
As it sits now running with just over 200 mf a standard act 3 run will net a haul of about 2 full packs 61+ rares. Of that, I _might_ average finding a single item that is worth even trying to sell. This isn't compelling gameplay to me. I frequently ID rares and say to myself "man if it had one more modifier..." or "wow that would be pretty good if the rolls were slightly better" and then proceed to salvage my entire haul.
Ah, finally one post from you that I've actually felt was not completely written in some sort of blind rage towards me. I can even understand some of your points now, and acknowledge them. Thanks for that.
You still seem to think that I'm a pessimist though, but I think that If I were, I would not be suggesting ways to improve the overall good experience of Diablo 3, I would be whining about how much the game sucks or something in those lines. The glass is very much half-full on this side of the fence, my friend. I just want it to get filled sooner than later.
Also, it seems you still haven't understood that in my idea only a very small portion of found items would be BOP, and that it would probably not interfere much with people who love to play the auction house, and who feel satisfied by amassing a huge amount of gold by smart ways of buying/selling items.
If your main is geared fully with the GAH, and you found that satisfying, and your alts are geared with farmed items, and you found that enjoyable too, I just can't see how a BOP item or two from time to time would make your experience any less fun, especially when a large group of players feels the farming is not nearly rewarding enough in it's current state.
Right now the gold you can make on the AH is the only thing that feels at least somewhat satisfying, but improving the loot so it can also feel more natural, is in my opinion a very reasonable concern at this point. Diablo is, after all, all about loot grind, not gold grind.
I believe that at some point in the future Blizzard will address this issue, in a way that may be completely different than this idea. By some of their latest comments, it seems that they realized how the AH overshadows the farming too much. That's when the idea of BOP came into play, because it's a clever solution that would not break the economy, like a simple drop rate increase of all items would. It would be difficult to pull off, yes, but doable. If they can come up with something better and less interfering with the other aspects of the game, I'm all for that.
Zero pretty much summed up my thoughts, and made them more understandable. Thanks, man. No need for me to go on any further in explaining them now I guess. English is not my main language, so I apologize if some of the sentences I've written have confused you.
Peace.
This is where I fundamentally disagree.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with monetizing items that you cannot use and then using those monies to upgrade your gear as you see fit. You, at the heart of it, are still just farming for good items.
I get just as excited from finding a great item, whether or not I can use it. My hunt is not limited just to items I can equip and that's where I diverge. There are a lot of people who seem to only define the item hunt as finding items they, personally, can use. I am hunting for great items, no stipulations. I'm not going to narrow the scope of the "item hunt" down to something that purposefully makes me miserable.
I bought my MH weapon for 100k. At the time it should have been at least 1 million gold, and more probably in the 1.5-2 million range. I am still proud of that. I think that was as much of a triumph as finding something leet myself. It all boils down to "right place, right time" so why not enjoy it instead of trying to figure out the fine distinctions and restricting your happiness to only a small subset of what equates to nothing more than "luck."
It just comes back to what I view as nothing other than unnecessary pessimism.
If you want to "fix" loot there are still ways to do it without adding BoP items to the game. I can think of at least four different ways off-hand, two of which Dasidarius already mentioned. Ways that don't have such an effect on anything other than the quality of loot. We don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater and, I feel, that's exactly what moving away from all items being tradeable does.
If I find a really great Barbarian item I want to be able to give it to my Barbarian friend if it's an upgrade for him. I don't want to be cockblocked because it was one of those 2-4% of items that were BoP. That's atrociously not fun especially when there are other solutions to the perceived problem.
Yes, it was the "right place at the right time" moment, and for that moment I was thrilled, but it also made me feel kind of bad after some time, when I looked at how much I've been trying to find something like that before I stumbled upon it at the AH and got it for a measly amount of gold. I guess it will never be as exciting for me as identifying a great item by myself. But that is just a personal preference of mine, I guess.
Hope you get my point.
And hey, I'm all open for ideas. Never said mine was perfect or definite. If you present a better solution, I'd be extremely excited to read it through and think about the way it would work best in-game. But you must admit that it's so much harder to farm your gear than buy it for gold. Almost ridiculously harder. Things need to balance out. Nothing wrong with monetizing your items, but it should not be the main driving force behind Diablo. Or we will have to agree to disagree on this one. xD
I look at it this way:
If I took the time to farm a full set that would let me farm gear in Act 3 by myself, how many hours would that take? In that many hours, how much gold would I make? With that much gold, would I be able to upgrade most of my gear by a significant margin in the AH?
The first answer is TOO long. The second answer is quite a bit if I AH everything that sells for 50k or more. The third answer is a big fat probably.
Therefore, even if you are farming your gear, you are grinding gold more effectively. The amount of gold passively farmed while looking for gear is capable of upgrading all your gear before you find ONE upgrade. That makes the whole thing have the wrong feel. I constantly feel like I'm an unpaid gold farmer instead of a gamer.
A valued currency and medium of exchange that is NOT a SOJ is an admitted relief. In my opinion, the function of that should be to supplement a problematic slot or two where maybe you found two legs and three gloves but never found a chest. Alternatively, if you are a fresh 60 with funds, go nuts and buy a full kit if you don't like Act 1 or Act 2. It shouldn't feel like that is the default choice, however, and you shouldn't feel that you cannot be reward unless you visit the AH. I think many of us (outside of the blatant whiners who make their appearances at times) are ok with going slower. We enjoy killing mobs and feeling like we earned our gear vs skipping to the end. That still has to feel rewarding, however.
400+ hours and I have no toon above level 45 who is wearing something that dropped for me. I have never paid more than 500k (a weapon) and other than the one item, I have never paid more than 100k. My gear is not good. It's marginal at best and I haven't found upgrades. There is something wrong with a loot system when I don't have any excitement about ID'ing anything. When I have never ID'd something and thought "cool", much less "wow!" in 400+ hours.
Very nicely put, mate. I don't feel like I could add anything to that post. But I would very much like to read through some of your more creative thoughts on this subject.
Really? I have the exact opposite impression - 90% of ideas proposed on the forums to "fix" D3 are far worse than the current game. This one for example.
I don't understand what you're saying. To me it sounds like you're saying that gold drops comprise too much of a players wealth and that allows them to circumvent the droprate on items. Based on my, personal, experience, I'd have to very strongly disagree.
I have almost 500 hours played and five toons at 60.
I am just inching up on 23 million gold looted.
My total earnings, factoring in RMAH sales at the current $$$ to gold rate, is just under 400 million gold.
I still have several millions worth of gold in items sitting in my bank to sell.
The majority of my wealth (over 90%) has come from selling items to other players and not from picking it up off the ground - and that's skewed because I've never had a MF set, which would clearly throw an even higher percentage of my wealth to the "items found" category. And that's not factoring in that all my AH sales take a 15% hit, so I'm only truly earning 85% on them, which would push it closer to 95% of my wealth from found items versus 5% from dropped gold.
So, if I'm finding items that have value to other people, but not to me, I simply do not understand how that is somehow circumventing the drop rates. It's patently clear that my wealth is coming from drops and not from gold piles. So how exactly am I gearing up faster than intended? This is no different than real life. If you find an old Cy Young rookie card in your attic and sell it at auction for a tidy sum and use that money to buy a sports car that you, otherwise, wouldn't have been able to afford - what would your reaction be if some guy out in the parking lot told you that you didn't put in enough hours at the factory to afford that car? You'd think he was a raging, presumptuous, douchebag.
Obviously what I'm saying does not apply to bots since they're kinda ... well ... cheating to obtain their wealth. But for the average person who is able to sell items on the AH (I have a pair of legs up that I didn't think I'd even get 50k for, but which are now over 1.5 million bid) how is anyone going to coyly insinuate that using their riches to purchase things from others is somehow gamebreaking?
I've found 1 set item, countless legendaries (many of which are post-1.0.4), JC and BS patterns, and some really awesome rares and oddly enough all but one of those legendaries has come from a white mob. To make me think that you've gone 400 hours without finding one item that got you excited makes me wonder what the hell you're actually doing, or more likely that you've set your expectations far too high. I get excited every single time I see orange/green text. I get excited any time I see a yellow 63, or a yellow amulet/ring. Like I have said a hundred times - if you're only going to see things in a negative light then you're never, ever, going to understand the positive in a situation.
For all the time I've invested in this game I still have a LONG way to go before I can plow through Act 3, or before I'm wearing anything close to top-end gear. I have many, many, many, many hours ahead of me. It will easily be close to 1000 hours before I'm maxed pLvls and have a gearset that I'm truly content with. Isn't that sufficient time investment?
First let me say I understand your points and that what you say has truth to it. Now, that out of the way I find it so very very very hard to believe you have 400+ hours in this game and you have no 45+ heroes with a single self-found-wearable piece among them. I have maybe half your time invested and I would estimate 70% of my gear is self found. I have 3 60's and will have my 4th in the next week or so with a stash full of gear waiting for him. Again all self found.
Now, please don't misunderstand, I am not saying you are lying, you really have nothing to gain by doing so, and obviously I can't prove or disprove your claims. I feel though, in my heart of hearts, that your experience is not the norm and I don't know what but it seems like you are doing something wrong.
I have said it before and while some people vehemently disagree with it, it's our own personal expectations that tend to ruin experiences. If I were a betting man, which I'm not really, I would be willing to bet that you have identified countless good to great items. All you are focusing on is the top 1% (warning anecdotal statistic) and when you don't see that you come to the conclusion that something must be wrong. If that is not the case, then so be it.
Case in point I was running with a buddy of mine last night and a 2 hand axe dropped. It had 292ish strength, 190ish vitality, 1000ish Life on hit, something else that I don't remember and a socket. DPS was modest at mid 800's. His main is a barb and my soon to be 60 is a barb that is using a 2-hand spec. I figured he would keep the weapon since it was solid and was a clear upgrade but he gave it to me because he is only looking for that top 1% of gear. The point to this story is that he is so focused on such a small percent of gear that he completely overlooked a really good item. TLDR; tunnel vision is dangerous mistress.
Anyway this is getting long now but I just felt compelled to comment. Hopefully you will find that first piece of usable gear soon!
- Ppl who like the "AH game", are in favor of the current system, a personal opinion, young ones (<20 years old)
- Ppl who like the "drop game" are in need of a change of the current system, a personal opinion, more old ones (25>) and ex-diablo players.
Im in the second group, I only find this game fun when I id something and I say: "nice!!". But, I understand that there are some ppl who like to play the "AH game", its jut not for me.
Also, this applies today, but you really weren't going to just farm gold to get gear for Act 1 Inferno back in the first, say 2-3 weeks of the game. The items that are selling for 20-50k now were selling for 500k then. I almost die of laughter when I think of some of the items I bought and what they cost me then versus now. But, really, this has more to do with the ever-increasing supply of items and less to do with the ever-increasing supply of gold.
As your gold goes through inflation so do prices. What once cost $2.00 now costs $2.25, but you got a raise at work so it's practically a wash. So, in reality, if the AH were being dominated by gold inflation you would see prices steadily rising. But, generally, you see prices steadily decreasing. Why? Because the AH is dominated by supply and not by inflation. The uber-rare items are still insanely expensive because they are uber-rare. The not-so-rare stuff has a very strong supply and just can't keep its value.
So, while it's great to argue that you can now get into Act 1 Inferno with gold you've picked up while leveling and try to portray that as a failure in the drop rate, it's not. At this point, due to how long I've been farming Inferno on my WD, all four of my other 60s have gear sufficient to clear Act 2 Inferno just on hand-me-down kind of stuff. That should tell you something about the availibility of items. The "good enough to clear" gear is ridiculously inexpensive because it's common as all hell. The "good enough to really efficiently farm" gear is still quite expensive and the "ultimate gear" is out of almost everyone's price range except the very rich.
That sounds pretty much like what we would have expected with this many people playing for 3 1/2 months now and very little in terms of items being removed from the economy, though... right?
My ONLY problem with D3's loot system is the fact that I keep getting tons of iLVL<56 drops in Inferno. IMO Blizz should remove the possibility for anything less than iLVL 56 or so to drop, even if that change is only made in A3 & A4. I mean if I am farming A3 & A4 why on earth would I be remotely happy with getting an iLVL 51 drop... That's the only thing that drives me absolutely crazy. As for drop rates themselves and the RNG, I am fine with how it works.
So your complaint is "I don't want to be forced to use the AH." And your solution is "force anyone who uses the AH to play my way."
Not a bit of hypocrisy there at all.
Arrant nonsense. I'm waaaaay older than 25, played Diablo 2 for years, and am in the first category.
Why don't you just simplify your statement and say "if you agree with me you're smart, if you disagree you're stupid and naive"? That's basically your assertion, isn't it?