So I was thinking long term for this game. What do these paragon levels actually mean for the future of Diablo. When the expansion pack hits and the level caps raises. What will happen to these Paragon levels?
In my opinion, these paragon level is a temporary solution to bring back players into the Diablo 3 world. This was one of those bandage solution to a wound that needed stitches. If we think long term the paragon will either get wiped and everyone will rage during the expansion pack transition. Or they will persist and loot tables for the expansion will be changed to accommodate the 300% magic find as base. I actually can not think of anything positive that will come from these paragon level in the future. This was an half assed idea that they took from kripparrian. It was a good short term idea, but horrible long term idea.
Given how many short-term problems paragon levels solve, I can categorically state that they're not stupid.
My current theory is that when they introduce an xpack, they'll raise the level cap and make paragon levels only work when you're at the level cap. I also expect them to simply not bother with putting MF on xpack items (in fact, I'm half expecting them to patch it out altogether at some point). Gear-based MF was an idea that just didn't pan out. What I'd like personally is a +difficulty/+MF slider, but that just wouldn't work with Blizzard's current 'one click' public game interface.
I'm not worried about what's going to happen in a year or so when a expansion drops, right now it makes things more fun, and that's all that really matters to me. They have a year or more to think about what to do after this and I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out.
Rumor is they won't raise the standard level cap, so there's your solution. They didn't do it in D2 (albeit they raised the reasonable level cap...). Majority of players quit sometime after normal so you don't really need to raise the level cap just to accomodate a new expansion. They will probably throw in some ilvl 64 items in Inferno and that will be it.
I'm not worried about what's going to happen in a year or so when a expansion drops, right now it makes things more fun, and that's all that really matters to me. They have a year or more to think about what to do after this and I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out.
+1
They probably don't even know what to do content wise for the expansion yet.
Lots of people asked for this, they gave it to them. That's Blizzard listening to a big fanbase request, you can't really blame them.
Hadn't played for awhile. Been on Mechwarrior Beta, which is a blast. Came back to D3 after the patch and had a great time! Almost got my WD up to level 1 Paragon, just a sliver away. Feels just like leveling again.
Also really cool to be able to use pets again with the WD. I missed that. Was having so much fun switching out my build and trying new things that I lost my NV Buff.
I like it, it gives some sense of progression even if I'm just grinding for gear. The MF/stat lvl bonuses takes pressure off my gear and makes it easier to try new builds. Actually hoping to get a new sun keeper with 45 MF to shift more MF to my follower!
Didn't take long for this kind of thread to pop up lol.
I wasn't totally keen on the Paragon level thing but reading and thinking about it it kind of grew on me.
I sure hope they don't do what they did in D2 with LoD when the expansion comes out. Creating a new Act in all three (four now) difficulties just meant a longer grind through to Hell on every new alt... yuck.
I think that you could have raised the question "how will paragon levels interact with a potential level cap raise in an expansion?" without so much emotive language. Almost felt like reading the official forums for a moment there.
Having said that, why assume that an expansion will include a level cap increase? It didn't in Diablo 2. Obviously that doesn't mean it won't here, but it's something to consider.
It's hardly a stupid idea, but it's long term success depends heavily on the way leveling will be adressed in the expansion. My personal opinion after the implementation of the paragon levels is that they will be going with both the higher level cap and new spells or runes for the existing classes.
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my guess, is that if an expantion pack hits we will get 2 new acts, the max level of 60 will stay intact. and we might get and additional 50 paragon levels.
new skills will be unlocked automatically and be put into proper places for leveling
instead of rasing the level cap from 60 to say 65 or 70 all current gear will stay intact and they only need to drop 1-2 new tiers say ilvl 64-65. the 2 new inferno acts will be the gear barrier.
or they could just increase max lvl to 70 give us new skills and make a new difficulty balanced for 70 players. the draw back of this is that its effectively a gear reset and thats NOT a good thing! especially with the RMAH in place
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So I was thinking long term for this game. What do these paragon levels actually mean for the future of Diablo. When the expansion pack hits and the level caps raises. What will happen to these Paragon levels?
It's a bit early to speculate on the expansion, no? I think Daemaro has the most likely solution, but there's plenty of time to come up with others. Take your pick.
If we think long term the paragon will either get wiped and everyone will rage during the expansion pack transition. Or they will persist and loot tables for the expansion will be changed to accommodate the 300% magic find as base.
I can't imagine why they would wipe something that time consuming, especially considering they did this to please the fanbase. Assuming they aren't out to get us and the levels somehow or other persist, it wouldn't be terrifyingly difficult for them to adjust drop rates as needed.
I actually can not think of anything positive that will come from these paragon level in the future.
Then I bemoan both your miserable pessimistic outlook on life and your lack of foresight (or hindsight if you consider this essentially re-dubs Diablo 2 and the long trek to 99 back into the game). Of course, nobody knows the future, so you may well be right. Then again, if we go far enough into the future there will be more major patches with which to address any upcoming problems. If we go further on down the line we will have expansion(s). So, assuming trouble does come of this: they have more than enough time to get in front of it and they are showing us now their willingness to do so.
This was an half assed idea that they took from kripparrian. It was a good short term idea, but horrible long term idea.
How dare they elaborate on good ideas from such a spurious source? Honestly the progenitor of the system means nothing to me. Name-dropping fails to impress me out in the real world, least of all here in the you-tube-streaming substrata of casual rpg gaming. I think we've been over why it was a good idea and why it doesn't really matter what the long-er term is at this point, but sufficed to say these sentences don't really accomplish much.
I think it was a much-needed shot of Diablo 2 in to the game. It opened up the entirety of the game to the vast majority of the player base who were struggling, allowed everyone a discernible path of improvement for quite a long time which did not detract from their item hunt, but in-fact made that hunt more efficient over time. In short: It made peace with quite a few issues that many loyal fans had all at once. Yes, it also brought about the ire of others and I can only imagine the reasons they (I would say "you," but I don't have to imagine your complaints since they are both plain to see and addressed above) came up with to dislike this addition to the game, but from what I can see on these boards and the official ones that group is a much smaller minority than the detractors pre-patch.
TL;DR: Blizzard did well. It's too soon to worry about the long-term.
Enough new non-Paragon levels to accommodate the new skills and runes.
New affixes for elites.
New affixes for items.
One more Act.
New Legendaries.
iLvl 64 and iLvl 65 items that only drop in Inferno Act IV and the new Act.
Paragon and Nephalem Valor completely unaltered.
Given all that, I agree with what's already been stated: once the expansion hits you'll have to reach a new base level to continue gaining Paragon levels.
I'm not worried about what's going to happen in a year or so when a expansion drops, right now it makes things more fun, and that's all that really matters to me. They have a year or more to think about what to do after this and I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out.
The voice of reason hits so many ears like nails on a chalk board. Keep speaking the truth and maybe you can drive the more unreasonable people away.
I personally really like the Paragon levels, but I'm overall more impressed with the entire patch. I actually got an upgrade last night for my main hand. Even though it's a spear, the 220+ str and vit, along with a socket completely blew away the mace I was using before that.
I actually can not think of anything positive
So what do you guys think?
I think that's your problem right there. Constant negativity will eat at you like a cancer.
I don't have time to rebuttal more posts, but what positive can you think of by this system? The only positive is a temporary fix to bring back players. There isn't much except negative in long term planning. This system potentially can hurt future expansion packs. A system like this punish new players or can potentially punish existing players' hard work when expansion pack hits. I will go into more details later.
I just want to note that we're having this discussion to put a light on a potential issue. I personally find the paragon level fine, except I just foresee terrible consequences of it down the road. We want to plan long term for diablo 3 and not short term. It might be fun now, but can cause dire consequences later when the real fix is decided.
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In my opinion, these paragon level is a temporary solution to bring back players into the Diablo 3 world. This was one of those bandage solution to a wound that needed stitches. If we think long term the paragon will either get wiped and everyone will rage during the expansion pack transition. Or they will persist and loot tables for the expansion will be changed to accommodate the 300% magic find as base. I actually can not think of anything positive that will come from these paragon level in the future. This was an half assed idea that they took from kripparrian. It was a good short term idea, but horrible long term idea.
So what do you guys think?
My current theory is that when they introduce an xpack, they'll raise the level cap and make paragon levels only work when you're at the level cap. I also expect them to simply not bother with putting MF on xpack items (in fact, I'm half expecting them to patch it out altogether at some point). Gear-based MF was an idea that just didn't pan out. What I'd like personally is a +difficulty/+MF slider, but that just wouldn't work with Blizzard's current 'one click' public game interface.
They probably don't even know what to do content wise for the expansion yet.
Lots of people asked for this, they gave it to them. That's Blizzard listening to a big fanbase request, you can't really blame them.
And most players will never reach 100, so it seems fitting.
Also really cool to be able to use pets again with the WD. I missed that. Was having so much fun switching out my build and trying new things that I lost my NV Buff.
I wasn't totally keen on the Paragon level thing but reading and thinking about it it kind of grew on me.
I sure hope they don't do what they did in D2 with LoD when the expansion comes out. Creating a new Act in all three (four now) difficulties just meant a longer grind through to Hell on every new alt... yuck.
I think that you could have raised the question "how will paragon levels interact with a potential level cap raise in an expansion?" without so much emotive language. Almost felt like reading the official forums for a moment there.
Having said that, why assume that an expansion will include a level cap increase? It didn't in Diablo 2. Obviously that doesn't mean it won't here, but it's something to consider.
new skills will be unlocked automatically and be put into proper places for leveling
instead of rasing the level cap from 60 to say 65 or 70 all current gear will stay intact and they only need to drop 1-2 new tiers say ilvl 64-65. the 2 new inferno acts will be the gear barrier.
or they could just increase max lvl to 70 give us new skills and make a new difficulty balanced for 70 players. the draw back of this is that its effectively a gear reset and thats NOT a good thing! especially with the RMAH in place
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It's a bit early to speculate on the expansion, no? I think Daemaro has the most likely solution, but there's plenty of time to come up with others. Take your pick.
I like more players to enjoy the game with. Do you think it was wrong of Blizzard to do something popular?
I've always found a trauma wrap better for wounds than free-bleeding to the hospital, especially when the treatment is uncertain.
I can't imagine why they would wipe something that time consuming, especially considering they did this to please the fanbase. Assuming they aren't out to get us and the levels somehow or other persist, it wouldn't be terrifyingly difficult for them to adjust drop rates as needed.
Then I bemoan both your miserable pessimistic outlook on life and your lack of foresight (or hindsight if you consider this essentially re-dubs Diablo 2 and the long trek to 99 back into the game). Of course, nobody knows the future, so you may well be right. Then again, if we go far enough into the future there will be more major patches with which to address any upcoming problems. If we go further on down the line we will have expansion(s). So, assuming trouble does come of this: they have more than enough time to get in front of it and they are showing us now their willingness to do so.
How dare they elaborate on good ideas from such a spurious source? Honestly the progenitor of the system means nothing to me. Name-dropping fails to impress me out in the real world, least of all here in the you-tube-streaming substrata of casual rpg gaming. I think we've been over why it was a good idea and why it doesn't really matter what the long-er term is at this point, but sufficed to say these sentences don't really accomplish much.
I think it was a much-needed shot of Diablo 2 in to the game. It opened up the entirety of the game to the vast majority of the player base who were struggling, allowed everyone a discernible path of improvement for quite a long time which did not detract from their item hunt, but in-fact made that hunt more efficient over time. In short: It made peace with quite a few issues that many loyal fans had all at once. Yes, it also brought about the ire of others and I can only imagine the reasons they (I would say "you," but I don't have to imagine your complaints since they are both plain to see and addressed above) came up with to dislike this addition to the game, but from what I can see on these boards and the official ones that group is a much smaller minority than the detractors pre-patch.
TL;DR: Blizzard did well. It's too soon to worry about the long-term.
The voice of reason hits so many ears like nails on a chalk board. Keep speaking the truth and maybe you can drive the more unreasonable people away.
Good post....
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I think that's your problem right there. Constant negativity will eat at you like a cancer.
I don't have time to rebuttal more posts, but what positive can you think of by this system? The only positive is a temporary fix to bring back players. There isn't much except negative in long term planning. This system potentially can hurt future expansion packs. A system like this punish new players or can potentially punish existing players' hard work when expansion pack hits. I will go into more details later.
I just want to note that we're having this discussion to put a light on a potential issue. I personally find the paragon level fine, except I just foresee terrible consequences of it down the road. We want to plan long term for diablo 3 and not short term. It might be fun now, but can cause dire consequences later when the real fix is decided.