I think the main issue is its boring compared to farming. It’s not hard but tedious, lots of searching
I'm 100% sure that there lots of people who think otherwise.
Nothing in this (pretty mediocre) game gives you such a strong "thrill of a hunt" than competing with several other players when the bidding timer on an item shows "< 1 min". And nothing gives so much disappointment as seeing the "not available" dialog when trying to buyout some terribly underpriced item, which could easily give you X millions of pure profit.
I'm 100% sure that there lots of people who think otherwise.
Nothing in this (pretty mediocre) game gives you such a strong "thrill of a hunt" than competing with several other players when the bidding timer on an item shows "< 1 min". And nothing gives so much disappointment as seeing the "not available" dialog when trying to buyout some terribly underpriced item, which could easily give you X millions of pure profit.
It depends on personal preferences though.
Exactly, but I believe the population of AH thrill seekers is considerably low compared to hack n slash seekers. The item hunt isn't the greatest in this game but even monotonous monster killing beats scanning the AH for hours, my preference of course.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
So there is a very big reason to change the game in favor of monster killers.
You forget that even the in-game economy is a self-regulating system. For example, if too many people realize that trading is fast and easy money, at some point the competition in AH will grow to a point where farming monsters will become more profitable. If people don't trade, it's their decision. There's no reason to punish AH-players for what other people don't do.
My biggest problem with doing so in the GAH would be surrounding the fact that it's difficult to actually research the value of your item. It's absolutely not anything close to an exact science. The listing fee works in WoW because it's brutally simple to see your competition. This is not the case in D3, and it's almost certainly the driving motivator behind there being no listing fee.
This is another reason they need to update the auction house. If an item can drop with 6 affixes which could actually include 8 or 9 total stats, then why the hell is there only the ability to search for 3? I should be able to get as granular as I want to on my search even if it was a separate "advanced search" option. There are plenty of times that I want to search for something that has str, vit, physical resist, all resist, and maybe one more stat like magic find or a socket. Instead I have to pick 3 stats and do a search and if that search has 12 pages maybe I try a different search until I get something reasonable like 2 pages where I can then try to figure out how much I could possibly get from selling my item.
I think if the AH was updated to be usable by human beings that don't have one hour to waste on each search they do it might make selling things at an appropriate price easier. I have 2 full tabs of crap I'd like to sell, but I hate the hassle of trying to figure out how much it's worth.
So there is a very big reason to change the game in favor of monster killers.
You forget that even the in-game economy is a self-regulating system. For example, if too many people realize that trading is fast and easy money, at some point the competition in AH will grow to a point where farming monsters will become more profitable. If people don't trade, it's their decision. There's no reason to punish AH-players for what other people don't do.
May work in theory but won't work in practice. I bet, that I will always be able to make more money from the ah than via farming 10 times as long. Which makes my estimated remaining Diablo III time rather short.
So there is a very big reason to change the game in favor of monster killers.
You forget that even the in-game economy is a self-regulating system. For example, if too many people realize that trading is fast and easy money, at some point the competition in AH will grow to a point where farming monsters will become more profitable. If people don't trade, it's their decision. There's no reason to punish AH-players for what other people don't do.
This makes two assumptions that I disagree with.
1) Who says the monster killers will stay? Eventually, the game may be a majority of AH players who dabble in the actual game world.
That would have the same end state but I think would be a much smaller player base and would lose a large percentage of the previously devoted followers of the Diablo title.
2) For people who enjoy the AH, it's about scale and relative wealth. I think the suggestions in my OP would push the market to having the OP items very expensive and the "playable" items would severely drop in value. That low-mid market crashing would not automatically mean the AH players would lose relative wealth. They would merely lose the strangle hold over people who don't want to play "their" game. I see it as stopping the punishment to those who derive no feeling of reward from the AH not not really affecting the AH players. They might not have the same number in the bank account but they would likely still have the same relative worth.
Should we limit how good people who play good can be?
No.
If you are going to change my words, don't use the quotes please.
You feel that was the effect of what I said, then either you didn't attempt to see my point of view at all or I expressed myself poorly. Since you are the only one who took my comments that way, I have to assume you are willfully distorting my words.
In so few words, you have expressed so many assumptions and opinions, it's hard for me to respond to it all.
You assume that the AH has to be an integral part of clearing the game.
You assume that playing the AH better means you are a better player.
You assume that everyone feels the "gamer high" from AH activities.
You imply that in your opinion it should be this way.
Those are just the tip of the implications I see in your comment. Care to actually contribute to the ideas rather than me have to draw out implications of what you mean?
Does that include not caring about people who get rich by breaking laws, or better still, by bribing (or 'lobbying', as is P.C. to say now) the people who make the laws, so that what they're doing isn't outside the law anymore?
Or were you two just talking about D3, and not in general?
Yea....I should've clarified my last comment. It was written poorly. I meant that as applying to D3 AND ; I should've added this, "I don't care what other people do to get filthy rich..............so long as they do so within the rules and in a manner that doesn't hurt me as a player".
Obviously, as we saw in D2, there are many things people can do to get filthy rich that hurts all the players. Duping, botting, scamming etc....
I will admit a bias up front against the implementation of the AHs. However, I would like to avoid that as much as possible. Given the topic, it's somewhat unavoidable but please stay as close to the topic as you can.
1) Should the game attempt to reduce the effectiveness of just trying to get ahead/profit/whatever when you do not enter the game world to kill mobs?
2) If a system can be devised to do that without hurting legitimate farmers, what would it look like and would you support it?
So a rough idea would be something like:
a) Reduce the auction limit to something like 5.
Increase the limit by a designated rate for x number of elite kills
c) Make a purchased item not re-postable for a time limit to prevent quick flipping. This could also have a reset value or timer reduction based on elite kills
Example:
For every 10 or 20 or whatever maths out to be fair elite pack kills, you gain one more auction slot in the AH. This "stack" has to be refreshed weekly or maybe even better, in a rolling cycle with elite kills from 7 days ago dropping off stacks.
A purchsed item must be held for 7 days before it can be reposted. I'm not sure that I like the idea of allowing anyone even temporary quick flips so I personally don't like using the "stacks" that give you more auction slots to reduce that but ideas/modifications like that are fair discussion.
Just shut up and play the damn game. I mean that's obviously what you did in d2, because exploiting peoples impatience and lack of knowledge was the very reason anyone could play that game for nearly 3 years straight(prior to 1.10).The stuff you enjoy? Was beyond boring after doing it for a couple months, the only long term fun d2 had was the economic aspect of it.
Then came the ladders 3 years later mind you.. ppl did the same thing, got good enough gear to farm and then quit shortly after. Then it was once again a game of economics. Crafting and trading.
Just because you don't want to partake in it doesn't mean it needs to be changed. You don't have to do it. Trust me people have shown you can clear inferno on less than 100k gold. Anyone can acquire that by the time they are level 60. It doesn't take much gear to clear this game.
There is absolutely no point in playing the game long term if you don't like the economic aspect of it. This may change when their "end game" comes to pass but I doubt it.
oh and the auction house did not change the game from d2. It's no different than the countless forums and auctions places like jsp, and diimarketplace or even trade chat.
The only difference? Now you don't have to spend 10 hours spamming trade. It's just like the forums without the scamming and a bigger audience.
No. Your obvious and admitted bias aside, the idea is just silly. YOU want a limit because YOU don't want to partake in using the AH's at all. Well guess what, I don't want to partake in Ladder or PvP so I think they should limit how much YOU can partake in them once they are released based purely on the fact I won't partake in them. Sound fair?
There's nothing difficult in trading. I think the main reason why so many players still prefer farming mobs instead of farming AH is because they believe that playing AH is hard, so they don't even try. Also, some people have the "I don't want to play an economy sim in D3" mentality.
There's nothing difficult in buying stocks and bonds either. The difficult part is picking the right ones and making money in the long run. Like any market, this one is volatile. Someone casually investing in items for markup will need to put in some significant time and effort into keeping up with their data, any patch news, popular guides/videos, etc. I won't say that it would add up to more than a serious farmer's schedule in a week, but "easy," isn't a word I would use.
Anyway, this also means there's no real reason to penalize AH-players, because literally everyone can do what we do.
Indeed, I said as much earlier. There's no way to functionally penalize any one particular user type on the AH without doing so to everyone. Even if someone could identify a reason to (and I don't think there is one, at present) it's a fruitless endeavor.
No. Your obvious and admitted bias aside, the idea is just silly. YOU want a limit because YOU don't want to partake in using the AH's at all. Well guess what, I don't want to partake in Ladder or PvP so I think they should limit how much YOU can partake in them once they are released based purely on the fact I won't partake in them. Sound fair?
The thing is, Playing the AH and inflating prices and simply USING the AH for trading - are 2 very, very, very different things. The first one - harms everyone. It causes prices to inflate to insane levels, creates a small "elite" of people who just go to farm the AH and not play the game at all.
Just USING the AH, can be illustrated in perhaps Hardcore - because no-one has MILLIONS of gold in Hardcore and to inflate stuff there would require so much effort that it's simply not worth it.
I don't see it like that, not even close to that.
All someone "playing the AH" is actually doing is removing the small selection of underpriced items from circulation (for the record you can still beat them to the punch and buy them yourself, everything involves a little luck with the AH) and lists them a bit below market value.
I don't think they're actually changing the market value of any items or making items more expensive. They're just lowering the odds of you finding something for really cheap. That's a far different outcome than inflating prices to "insane levels."
There are far too many sellers for people who are simply playing the AH to have any direct say on the price of items.
I stopped reading your reply right there. You are obviously not intelligent enough to realize I was making a valid point that the AH is just as much a part of the game as Ladder and PvP will be. Maybe you should calm down on your personal attacks and try reading something and actually comprehending what is being said instead of flying off the handle.
@Shaggy - The big players, the big flippers - Flip items that are good enough to be sold for high prices, and take them from low prices. Now. If you take very many people who do this (A LOT of people do this) - The number of items that are actually good for low prices, decreases - creating a little sector of over-priced good items in the top. This is what i mean by bringing it to insane prices, it's not a flip if you don't make a matter of money on it. And it only serves to bring the top tier items to insane prices - Given that NO PLAYER, WHO FARMED GOLD HIM SELF IN GAME - can earn the amounts to buy the top stuff on AH. NONE.
See the happening there? Situation A creates B and B happened - It is FACT. Unless you somehow would like to believe that people farmed up 200 million gold for top tier items in the game somehow.. By not flipping. Pro tip - You don't.
If they're overpriced then they shouldn't sell though, at least not in gobs and gobs, which would mean the prices have to normalize around what the item is actually worth to the community.
So, long-term, all you're doing is taking underpriced items and selling them at market value. I just fail to see how that's going to destroy the economy any more than ... say ... allowing a Wiz/DH who broke into Act 3 with broken skills to keep the gear they got, which was worth insane sums of money at that point in time.
If Blizzard allowed one group of players to create a MASSIVE rift in wealth in the game, why would they not allow another group to do the same?
I don't know. I guess I just get a bit uneasy at the idea that we have to come down on the "AH barons" when we didn't have to come down on anyone else who somehow attained gear in other "exploitative" ways.
No. Your obvious and admitted bias aside, the idea is just silly. YOU want a limit because YOU don't want to partake in using the AH's at all. Well guess what, I don't want to partake in Ladder or PvP so I think they should limit how much YOU can partake in them once they are released based purely on the fact I won't partake in them. Sound fair?
The thing is, Playing the AH and inflating prices and simply USING the AH for trading - are 2 very, very, very different things. The first one - harms everyone. It causes prices to inflate to insane levels, creates a small "elite" of people who just go to farm the AH and not play the game at all.
Just USING the AH, can be illustrated in perhaps Hardcore - because no-one has MILLIONS of gold in Hardcore and to inflate stuff there would require so much effort that it's simply not worth it.
I don't see it like that, not even close to that.
All someone "playing the AH" is actually doing is removing the small selection of underpriced items from circulation (for the record you can still beat them to the punch and buy them yourself, everything involves a little luck with the AH) and lists them a bit below market value.
I don't think they're actually changing the market value of any items or making items more expensive. They're just lowering the odds of you finding something for really cheap. That's a far different outcome than inflating prices to "insane levels."
There are far too many sellers for people who are simply playing the AH to have any direct say on the price of items.
I feel you are looking at this too narrowly. While I do feel it's true they distort the market by removing most "deals" from the average player, that is not the most important affect.
2) If a system can be devised to do that without hurting legitimate farmers, what would it look like and would you support it?
with 120h i have 200+ mil ..
This is the problem. There is a small percentage that focus on this aspect so heavily, their bankroll creates stratas of wealth in the game. If that wealth and access to everything it provides did not affect the experience for everyone else so much, I wouldn't have even considered this thread. The player in this quote isn't even in the "power" levels of wealth. Imagine what that does to my playing experience when I have looted less than 7 million gold, because I've worked more for progression than gold, and earned less than 500k in the AH, because it doesn't feel rewarding to me (and terrible loot-luck; highest selling drop was 100k and it was the best item I've seen in-game). I'm starting Act 2 on a wizard and half way through Act 2 on my barb. I have 7k elite kills. I'm no uber farmer, but I don't have the gear for it, so it's slow going.
Just shut up and play the damn game. I mean that's obviously what you did in d2, because exploiting peoples impatience and lack of knowledge was the very reason anyone could play that game for nearly 3 years straight(prior to 1.10).The stuff you enjoy? Was beyond boring after doing it for a couple months, the only long term fun d2 had was the economic aspect of it.
You can have your opinions and I'm legitimately interested in them (as opposed to your opening comments there that do nothing for this thread). However, to imply that the reasons YOU play are the only reasons anyone else plays is being unreasonable.
Then came the ladders 3 years later mind you.. ppl did the same thing, got good enough gear to farm and then quit shortly after. Then it was once again a game of economics. Crafting and trading.
In D2, I only played solo/lan, so you have made a lot of assumptions about my point of view that are patently wrong.
Just because you don't want to partake in it doesn't mean it needs to be changed. You don't have to do it. Trust me people have shown you can clear inferno on less than 100k gold. Anyone can acquire that by the time they are level 60. It doesn't take much gear to clear this game.
The base drop rates in D2 didn't take into account trading like jsp etc, so it could exist without affecting me. Now, that's not the same. It does affect me whether I ever open the AH interface or not. I also doubt the < 100k gold part. I've seen guides for < 1 million. Those guides never show these people actually clearing the game. If anything they show them kill Inferno Diablo which is not the same considering the possiblity of parking most elites or assisted rushing to that point. Inferno Diablo is not as hard as "clearing" the game. Also, the existance of these guides always inflates the market for the type of items highlighted in the guides. I saw the Kripp budget barb guide and watched the inflation of prices on chromatic armor immediately after. Very dismissive view there that isn't well supported.
There is absolutely no point in playing the game long term if you don't like the economic aspect of it. This may change when their "end game" comes to pass but I doubt it.
oh and the auction house did not change the game from d2. It's no different than the countless forums and auctions places like jsp, and diimarketplace or even trade chat.
The only difference? Now you don't have to spend 10 hours spamming trade. It's just like the forums without the scamming and a bigger audience.
Again, you can try to dictate "why" someone should be playing the game or "how" they should be playing the game, but as Blizz is learning, you won't have a happy player-base doing that. There are always rules in games that will influence those factors. When those rules are too narrow or strict, you end up with the forum explosions D3 is seeing.
I'm not saying anything from this thread will be the fix for anything. I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right. Your comments have done nothing to contradict anything though because they are not supported at all. You basically said "Shut up, I like it and if you don't then leave." Not very constructive.
You can have your opinions and I'm legitimately interested in them (as opposed to your opening comments there that do nothing for this thread). However, to imply that the reasons YOU play are the only reasons anyone else plays is being unreasonable.
It's not why I only played it's the only logical reason anybody could play the game for hours a day for 3 years straight. I would bet anything you did not do that. Nor did anybody else. It really is the only reason somebody could play the game that much for that long.
In D2, I only played solo/lan, so you have made a lot of assumptions about my point of view that are patently wrong.
I am telling you how the game was in the big picture, you know those that played online, not how you played it. People were encouraged to trade in d2 too. The only legitimate argument you could have is that uniques were always useful for their level and beyond. They held you over until you got that godly rare. The funny part is most people didn't even know that rares were much better than the uniques but that is only because uniques were very usable and most people didn't care that much about min/maxing.
This same thing will happen in D3 come 1.04 with the buff to legendaries.
The base drop rates in D2 didn't take into account trading like jsp etc, so it could exist without affecting me. Now, that's not the same. It does affect me whether I ever open the AH interface or not. I also doubt the < 100k gold part. I've seen guides for < 1 million. Those guides never show these people actually clearing the game. If anything they show them kill Inferno Diablo which is not the same considering the possiblity of parking most elites or assisted rushing to that point. Inferno Diablo is not as hard as "clearing" the game. Also, the existance of these guides always inflates the market for the type of items highlighted in the guides. I saw the Kripp budget barb guide and watched the inflation of prices on chromatic armor immediately after. Very dismissive view there that isn't well supported.
There was a guide posted on this site not too long ago for under 500k that full cleared the game, with videos.I think it was a DH Monk would be even cheaper imo) I assume that person wasn't the best player in the world and there is somebody out there that could do it for less if they were determined. 100k seems reasonable based on the quality of stuff I'm seeing for 10k. I can assure you with 100k you'd have better gear than I did when I first cleared the game pre-nerf.
Again, you can try to dictate "why" someone should be playing the game or "how" they should be playing the game, but as Blizz is learning, you won't have a happy player-base doing that. There are always rules in games that will influence those factors. When those rules are too narrow or strict, you end up with the forum explosions D3 is seeing.
I am only stating it from an extreme PoV that only involves the game as a whole. Not your individual experience. There is not a single person that would disagree and could say with a straight face that they plan on farming for 6-8 hours a day for years to come without playing the AH.
You can see the majority of people only cared about getting 'good nuff' gear or clearing content. As the game has a much small player base compared to launch. Though it's very much lively, despite what others would have you believe.
I'm not saying anything from this thread will be the fix for anything. I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right. Your comments have done nothing to contradict anything though because they are not supported at all. You basically said "Shut up, I like it and if you don't then leave." Not very constructive.
The main reason for inflation has next to nothing to do with people playing the market. The market is much to big to control. It has to do with botters injecting billions of gold into the economy daily which devalues gold. This is then compounded by the fact that peoples gear gets better and it becomes harder to make a buck on the items you do find. Because their standards go up. /thread
In D2, I only played solo/lan, so you have made a lot of assumptions about my point of view that are patently wrong.
Look, I really hate to say it, but if you played D2 without B.net then you have NO point of comparison to make with D3.
I don't know how to tell you that the offline experience was not the same as the online experience in D2 and you're making a comparison from a position that's horribly ignorant of how D2 played on B.net. You bought D3 knowing full well there was no offline mode so it should be common sense that the game was much more analagous to the online version of D2 and not the offline version.
Using the "single player D2" argument is absolutely fruitless because you're comparing two beasts which appear to be the same on the outside but which were inherently different. They simply were different experiences and it's OK that you prefered the D2 single player approach, but let's not act for a single second that anyone actually believed they were getting anything other than the D2 Battle.net experience in D3. If you did then it's YOUR expectations that were off, not what the game delivered.
I would play this game for 3-4 hours a day for years IF the reward structures supported self-found. By that I mean an inferno viable piece every 8-12 hours. Not god-mode gear. Just a legitimately wearable piece in Inferno. This doesn't actually happen for a percentage of the player-base that I believe is too large. I know that I am not alone in this view. This worked just fine in D2. I didn't ever get close to BiS in D2 and didn't really care. I was able to clear the game by learning the few strategies you needed and restarting a few acts (but this was the exception). It still wasn't long before I had 'cleared" the content. At that point, I chose where I felt like farming. I didn't run endless Pindle/Ball/Meph. I preferred to mix it up a lot more than that. I was ok with sacrificing efficiency. I enjoyed slaughtering mobs and gradually getting faster/stronger at doing it. I never had an enigma and didn't care.
D3, I can adjust to a slower progress. I can adjust to more restarts. I would be thrilled to upgrade 13 slots x 12 hours an upgrade to get through an Act at a time to clear. Then, yes, I would settle in to farm, farm, farm, for myself to maybe get some godly gear.
So much for your "only logical reason anybody could play the game".
Stop thinking you represent everyone.
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Nothing in this (pretty mediocre) game gives you such a strong "thrill of a hunt" than competing with several other players when the bidding timer on an item shows "< 1 min". And nothing gives so much disappointment as seeing the "not available" dialog when trying to buyout some terribly underpriced item, which could easily give you X millions of pure profit.
It depends on personal preferences though.
Exactly, but I believe the population of AH thrill seekers is considerably low compared to hack n slash seekers. The item hunt isn't the greatest in this game but even monotonous monster killing beats scanning the AH for hours, my preference of course.
Absolutely? Sure.
Relatively? No way, though this will change over time as the other players are leaving
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
This is another reason they need to update the auction house. If an item can drop with 6 affixes which could actually include 8 or 9 total stats, then why the hell is there only the ability to search for 3? I should be able to get as granular as I want to on my search even if it was a separate "advanced search" option. There are plenty of times that I want to search for something that has str, vit, physical resist, all resist, and maybe one more stat like magic find or a socket. Instead I have to pick 3 stats and do a search and if that search has 12 pages maybe I try a different search until I get something reasonable like 2 pages where I can then try to figure out how much I could possibly get from selling my item.
I think if the AH was updated to be usable by human beings that don't have one hour to waste on each search they do it might make selling things at an appropriate price easier. I have 2 full tabs of crap I'd like to sell, but I hate the hassle of trying to figure out how much it's worth.
May work in theory but won't work in practice. I bet, that I will always be able to make more money from the ah than via farming 10 times as long. Which makes my estimated remaining Diablo III time rather short.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
This makes two assumptions that I disagree with.
1) Who says the monster killers will stay? Eventually, the game may be a majority of AH players who dabble in the actual game world.
That would have the same end state but I think would be a much smaller player base and would lose a large percentage of the previously devoted followers of the Diablo title.
2) For people who enjoy the AH, it's about scale and relative wealth. I think the suggestions in my OP would push the market to having the OP items very expensive and the "playable" items would severely drop in value. That low-mid market crashing would not automatically mean the AH players would lose relative wealth. They would merely lose the strangle hold over people who don't want to play "their" game. I see it as stopping the punishment to those who derive no feeling of reward from the AH not not really affecting the AH players. They might not have the same number in the bank account but they would likely still have the same relative worth.
If you are going to change my words, don't use the quotes please.
You feel that was the effect of what I said, then either you didn't attempt to see my point of view at all or I expressed myself poorly. Since you are the only one who took my comments that way, I have to assume you are willfully distorting my words.
In so few words, you have expressed so many assumptions and opinions, it's hard for me to respond to it all.
You assume that the AH has to be an integral part of clearing the game.
You assume that playing the AH better means you are a better player.
You assume that everyone feels the "gamer high" from AH activities.
You imply that in your opinion it should be this way.
Those are just the tip of the implications I see in your comment. Care to actually contribute to the ideas rather than me have to draw out implications of what you mean?
Yea....I should've clarified my last comment. It was written poorly. I meant that as applying to D3 AND ; I should've added this, "I don't care what other people do to get filthy rich..............so long as they do so within the rules and in a manner that doesn't hurt me as a player".
Obviously, as we saw in D2, there are many things people can do to get filthy rich that hurts all the players. Duping, botting, scamming etc....
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Just shut up and play the damn game. I mean that's obviously what you did in d2, because exploiting peoples impatience and lack of knowledge was the very reason anyone could play that game for nearly 3 years straight(prior to 1.10).The stuff you enjoy? Was beyond boring after doing it for a couple months, the only long term fun d2 had was the economic aspect of it.
Then came the ladders 3 years later mind you.. ppl did the same thing, got good enough gear to farm and then quit shortly after. Then it was once again a game of economics. Crafting and trading.
Just because you don't want to partake in it doesn't mean it needs to be changed. You don't have to do it. Trust me people have shown you can clear inferno on less than 100k gold. Anyone can acquire that by the time they are level 60. It doesn't take much gear to clear this game.
There is absolutely no point in playing the game long term if you don't like the economic aspect of it. This may change when their "end game" comes to pass but I doubt it.
oh and the auction house did not change the game from d2. It's no different than the countless forums and auctions places like jsp, and diimarketplace or even trade chat.
The only difference? Now you don't have to spend 10 hours spamming trade. It's just like the forums without the scamming and a bigger audience.
No. Your obvious and admitted bias aside, the idea is just silly. YOU want a limit because YOU don't want to partake in using the AH's at all. Well guess what, I don't want to partake in Ladder or PvP so I think they should limit how much YOU can partake in them once they are released based purely on the fact I won't partake in them. Sound fair?
I never claimed to be very successful at it myself, so that assumption is not implied.
There's nothing difficult in buying stocks and bonds either. The difficult part is picking the right ones and making money in the long run. Like any market, this one is volatile. Someone casually investing in items for markup will need to put in some significant time and effort into keeping up with their data, any patch news, popular guides/videos, etc. I won't say that it would add up to more than a serious farmer's schedule in a week, but "easy," isn't a word I would use.
Indeed, I said as much earlier. There's no way to functionally penalize any one particular user type on the AH without doing so to everyone. Even if someone could identify a reason to (and I don't think there is one, at present) it's a fruitless endeavor.
I don't see it like that, not even close to that.
All someone "playing the AH" is actually doing is removing the small selection of underpriced items from circulation (for the record you can still beat them to the punch and buy them yourself, everything involves a little luck with the AH) and lists them a bit below market value.
I don't think they're actually changing the market value of any items or making items more expensive. They're just lowering the odds of you finding something for really cheap. That's a far different outcome than inflating prices to "insane levels."
There are far too many sellers for people who are simply playing the AH to have any direct say on the price of items.
I stopped reading your reply right there. You are obviously not intelligent enough to realize I was making a valid point that the AH is just as much a part of the game as Ladder and PvP will be. Maybe you should calm down on your personal attacks and try reading something and actually comprehending what is being said instead of flying off the handle.
If they're overpriced then they shouldn't sell though, at least not in gobs and gobs, which would mean the prices have to normalize around what the item is actually worth to the community.
So, long-term, all you're doing is taking underpriced items and selling them at market value. I just fail to see how that's going to destroy the economy any more than ... say ... allowing a Wiz/DH who broke into Act 3 with broken skills to keep the gear they got, which was worth insane sums of money at that point in time.
If Blizzard allowed one group of players to create a MASSIVE rift in wealth in the game, why would they not allow another group to do the same?
I don't know. I guess I just get a bit uneasy at the idea that we have to come down on the "AH barons" when we didn't have to come down on anyone else who somehow attained gear in other "exploitative" ways.
I feel you are looking at this too narrowly. While I do feel it's true they distort the market by removing most "deals" from the average player, that is not the most important affect.
This is the problem. There is a small percentage that focus on this aspect so heavily, their bankroll creates stratas of wealth in the game. If that wealth and access to everything it provides did not affect the experience for everyone else so much, I wouldn't have even considered this thread. The player in this quote isn't even in the "power" levels of wealth. Imagine what that does to my playing experience when I have looted less than 7 million gold, because I've worked more for progression than gold, and earned less than 500k in the AH, because it doesn't feel rewarding to me (and terrible loot-luck; highest selling drop was 100k and it was the best item I've seen in-game). I'm starting Act 2 on a wizard and half way through Act 2 on my barb. I have 7k elite kills. I'm no uber farmer, but I don't have the gear for it, so it's slow going.
You can have your opinions and I'm legitimately interested in them (as opposed to your opening comments there that do nothing for this thread). However, to imply that the reasons YOU play are the only reasons anyone else plays is being unreasonable.
In D2, I only played solo/lan, so you have made a lot of assumptions about my point of view that are patently wrong.
The base drop rates in D2 didn't take into account trading like jsp etc, so it could exist without affecting me. Now, that's not the same. It does affect me whether I ever open the AH interface or not. I also doubt the < 100k gold part. I've seen guides for < 1 million. Those guides never show these people actually clearing the game. If anything they show them kill Inferno Diablo which is not the same considering the possiblity of parking most elites or assisted rushing to that point. Inferno Diablo is not as hard as "clearing" the game. Also, the existance of these guides always inflates the market for the type of items highlighted in the guides. I saw the Kripp budget barb guide and watched the inflation of prices on chromatic armor immediately after. Very dismissive view there that isn't well supported.
Again, you can try to dictate "why" someone should be playing the game or "how" they should be playing the game, but as Blizz is learning, you won't have a happy player-base doing that. There are always rules in games that will influence those factors. When those rules are too narrow or strict, you end up with the forum explosions D3 is seeing.
I'm not saying anything from this thread will be the fix for anything. I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right. Your comments have done nothing to contradict anything though because they are not supported at all. You basically said "Shut up, I like it and if you don't then leave." Not very constructive.
It's not why I only played it's the only logical reason anybody could play the game for hours a day for 3 years straight. I would bet anything you did not do that. Nor did anybody else. It really is the only reason somebody could play the game that much for that long.
I am telling you how the game was in the big picture, you know those that played online, not how you played it. People were encouraged to trade in d2 too. The only legitimate argument you could have is that uniques were always useful for their level and beyond. They held you over until you got that godly rare. The funny part is most people didn't even know that rares were much better than the uniques but that is only because uniques were very usable and most people didn't care that much about min/maxing.
This same thing will happen in D3 come 1.04 with the buff to legendaries.
There was a guide posted on this site not too long ago for under 500k that full cleared the game, with videos.I think it was a DH Monk would be even cheaper imo) I assume that person wasn't the best player in the world and there is somebody out there that could do it for less if they were determined. 100k seems reasonable based on the quality of stuff I'm seeing for 10k. I can assure you with 100k you'd have better gear than I did when I first cleared the game pre-nerf.
I am only stating it from an extreme PoV that only involves the game as a whole. Not your individual experience. There is not a single person that would disagree and could say with a straight face that they plan on farming for 6-8 hours a day for years to come without playing the AH.
You can see the majority of people only cared about getting 'good nuff' gear or clearing content. As the game has a much small player base compared to launch. Though it's very much lively, despite what others would have you believe.
The main reason for inflation has next to nothing to do with people playing the market. The market is much to big to control. It has to do with botters injecting billions of gold into the economy daily which devalues gold. This is then compounded by the fact that peoples gear gets better and it becomes harder to make a buck on the items you do find. Because their standards go up. /thread
Look, I really hate to say it, but if you played D2 without B.net then you have NO point of comparison to make with D3.
I don't know how to tell you that the offline experience was not the same as the online experience in D2 and you're making a comparison from a position that's horribly ignorant of how D2 played on B.net. You bought D3 knowing full well there was no offline mode so it should be common sense that the game was much more analagous to the online version of D2 and not the offline version.
Using the "single player D2" argument is absolutely fruitless because you're comparing two beasts which appear to be the same on the outside but which were inherently different. They simply were different experiences and it's OK that you prefered the D2 single player approach, but let's not act for a single second that anyone actually believed they were getting anything other than the D2 Battle.net experience in D3. If you did then it's YOUR expectations that were off, not what the game delivered.
D3, I can adjust to a slower progress. I can adjust to more restarts. I would be thrilled to upgrade 13 slots x 12 hours an upgrade to get through an Act at a time to clear. Then, yes, I would settle in to farm, farm, farm, for myself to maybe get some godly gear.
So much for your "only logical reason anybody could play the game".
Stop thinking you represent everyone.