I just don't understand why they can't get a game out there that is almost right, from the start. They make you wait so long (Soon) because they want the game to be right and they spend the first year apologizing and fixing the game. Its sad
"Almost right" is such a vague moving target. Furthermore it's a matter of personal opinion. Lots of people, more than we know honestly, are perfectly happy with D3. I am one of them. Sure I see areas where it could be improved but I don't honestly care and at whatever point it's not fun anymore I will just stop playing.
I could be wrong but I don't think anyone on the development team including the devil himself, Jay Wilson, (sarcasm by the way) released Diablo III and thought it was a steaming pile of shit. They released a game that they honestly thought was "almost right".
The only way to "predict", for lack of a better word, a response from the playerbase would have been to make a clone of Diablo 2 but even then you are making assumptions about the players and we all know what happens when you make an assumption. Believe it or not they changed a lot during the Beta and a large percent of it was community/player driven feedback.
"Fun" is not an absolute though and to beat a dead horse game development is at the end of the day a business and the goal is to meet the needs of the largest subset of your consumers since that leads to revenue. Simply because Diablo 3 does not meet everyone's specific ideas on how the game should have been does not make it bad or a failure. The opposite also holds true.
Blizzard won't please everyone, they can't. The idea is to simply make most people happy. It sucks when you aren't one of those people but such is life.
My apologies to whoever I quoted. I saw it in a quote tree but didn't feel like going back and figuring out who said it.
I like your attitude and I agree that the game is in good repair as a core to be built upon, and likely was presented in such a state with future embellishment in mind.
However, my one serious "WTF" point of contention is itemization. I just can't wrap my head around it....I cannot extend a pass without protest of an initial launch of the LONG awaited Diablo sequel that has such woefully inadequate items/dynamic selection of items.
"Get an authenticator to protect your Legendary stuff"........yea, and I'm going to get a car alarm for my 1976 Ford Pinto......THE FUCK?
Aside from the woeful Legendaries/Sets (which has been addressed via a blue post just hours ago quoting a statement from Morhaim himself), there is a glaring issue with a lack of affixes for items and a lack of ancillary items such as charms, jewels and/or a wider selection of gems.
We are bound like a ball and chain to gear that must have All Resistances affix....gear that would otherwise be very valuable is seen as worthless without this affix. Ancillary items that have resistance affixes could alleviate the absolute need for gear pieces to have an inherent resistance affix.
It is the very fact that these things occurred in the first place that has me quite concerned....
If Mr Wilson had called me on a Friday night and said "Hey, we need you to give us an itemization template by Monday morning...get on it"....I would have done far better than what was introduced to us at launch. In three days, just me and 6 cans of Monster energy drink would've compiled a better selection than that. They had 10 years.....
I do LOVE the RMP affix. It is borderline genius and I simply do not understand how more core-fans aren't loving this affix. It does provide more room for a bad roll....BUT, as an old school D2 fan, it is the potential this RMP affix has to roll truly unique and very powerful items that I have a stout appreciation for.
What's so hard to understand that the company wants to make money and therefore has an incentive to create hard content that is full of gear checks? You can call it a conspiracy theory, but I call it a smart business plan.
There are many things in the game that promote the AH. Enrage timers, gear checks at each act, and low drop rates just to name a few. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that these things bring in more money to the RMAH. To think that the ONLY reason they have these things would make you a conspiracy theorist but to think that the RMAH had no factor in these decisions.... well I don't know what to say to you then.
To be concise with my words - I do not think the RMAH is a consipricy, I too think its a great business plan. Its just not the game that I thought I was going to get. I do think they intentionally designed a game's loot system to support the RMAH mechanic, hands down. Not to support the fun gameplay that people were expecting from this game. They are changing legendary items - why - because they suddenly felt like it, or is it because a vast majority of the community started putting two and two together? That's not tin-foil hat conspiracy theorizing - that's people discovering that the game there were expecting is not what Blizzard designed. As I was intitially saying, they wanted Inferno to be too many things. An end-game, a challenge mode for the most dedicated players, a gear-check which is a motivator for the RMAH, etc. People were not aware of how powerful that motivator was going to be and how the item system is very much in support of that.
What it does take is a really tight tinfoil hat to look past the fact that people were going to purchase items using real money anyway, regardless of the existence of a RMAH.
Seriously, I know you really, really, really, really want something to use as a focal point for your "I Hate Blizzard" rant, but this is so far from reality it actually hurts my brain to discuss it.
When you can show me numbers that prove the RMAH is A.) seeing a significant portion of trading activity over the GAH, and is B.) a cash-cow for Blizzard, I might give even an inkling of thought to the idea that they may be trying to provide incentive to use the RMAH more. I will never, however, concede that the game is designed, in any major way, around the RMAH; that idea is pure horse manure.
-edit- stupid auto-smiley conversion
Yes, people were going to use 3rd parties to get the gear they wanted. The RMAH is their answer for that, as they and so many others have said. I don't have imperical evidence to show you that the RMAH is a cash cow for Blizzard, but to clarify; I don't think it is either. But you my friend have to accept one simple thing; Blizzard is a corporation and it absolutely will not launch a system that costs them time, money and personnel, UNLESS they are getting compenstated for it. The RMAH isn't just out of the goodness of their hearts to protect us from being taken by 3rd parties. There's money in it for them. Admit that? Good - take one more step and now explain to me why the item system in this game was designed to be this bad, the Legendary items are being reworked from "as intended" and all of this happening because they are simply getting pressure from the public to do so.
In certain cases, patience,strategy and skill are thrown in the shit-can to make way for utterly frustrating and "unbeatable" affix/inherent bars. Though I feel these occurrences are the exception to the rule and Blizzard should be VERY careful in nerfing/balancing to accommodate issues people have in terms of difficulty. I don't want them making this game too "user friendly".
Totally agree. I want their to be challenges. But I refuse to accept the answer of "well there are some things in this game, you'll just have to avoid." Its poor design and I expect more from Blizzard. Stun-locked because the monster is designed that way is bad, but okay. A challenge. Stun-locking and then have another ability to do it again - because they designed a generic random system to add that second stun-lock ability to said creature, is unacceptable. Show some style and adjust it. Give it a higher chance to have an ability that it doesn't already have it its base of abilities.
I just don't understand why they can't get a game out there that is almost right, from the start. They make you wait so long (Soon) because they want the game to be right and they spend the first year apologizing and fixing the game. Its sad
"Almost right" is such a vague moving target. Furthermore it's a matter of personal opinion. Lots of people, more than we know honestly, are perfectly happy with D3. I am one of them. Sure I see areas where it could be improved but I don't honestly care and at whatever point it's not fun anymore I will just stop playing.
My apologies to whoever I quoted. I saw it in a quote tree but didn't feel like going back and figuring out who said it.
First off you quoted me and for not recoginizing me, you now owe me a new improved Legendary when they come out. I'll send you an invoice.
I love the Diablo series and I enjoy Blizzard's games - but for now, I'm done and will play SC2 or some other companies titles that I enjoy. And 6 months ago, I never thought in a million years that I would find myself saying that statement when talking about Diablo 3. I wanted this game so badly and now that its here and the shape that its in, I just can't forgive that.
You are right - "Almost There" is a vague moving target. But here is my evidence as to why we have a right to feel that it might not be so vague. Inferno was supposed to be so super hard, right? Remember the videos they teased us with, with Dev's saying "oh you're gonna die a lot!". Inferno was beaten in 72 hours. By, what many have called an exploit - but others say well done. The guy used the spells and abilities given at launch to do it. They didn't catch that? During their Alpha testing phase? No, obviously they didn't. They waited until their community did and then they fixed it. That in my book means the game was not "Almost There". Nether Tentacles for the DH. During the Alpha testing, someone didn't sit down and give themselves a nice set of godly gear (as crappy as the gear is) and start melting everything down to realize that it might be slightly OP? Of course they didn't - because if they did AND there were concerned about the game being "Almost There" before release, they would have changed it. Finally; Attack Speed. Alpha Testing - give yourself a set of godly gear - 3 or 4 attacks a second - deduce that its too much - change it BEFORE the game is release.
Guess what - if they did, the game would have been "Almost There."
Huh? Nothing you bolded was anything I said. Good lord, read what you're replying to before jumping to conclusions.
This is the dumbest argument ever and I'm out.
Zakaz made a great point and, as an impartial observer, I don't see that you successfully refuted his comments.
Well, he is correct in that my bolded point wasn't anything he said, but it was the original quote I was referencing (and he was defending) - as such, my point remains.
I just think you jumped on the guy a bit too much and thought I need to point out that his reasoning isn't that unreasonable. I didn't read his full post, so forgive me if he went full on crazy and I was defending him
All I was trying to get at was that it's not that crazy to think that the RMAH may have been a small factor in their design process. Personally, I think it's likely that the RMAH had at least a small part in a few of their design choices but I don't really care either way. It is what it is and I don't fault them for trying to make money.
I think it's a bit silly to say there's no way that the RMAH could have been a factor(no matter how small) in any of their decisions. It's a revenue source for them so of course they will encourage their customers to use it. Does that mean they'll design the entire game around the RMAH? Of course not, but I'm sure many decisions were made with the RMAH in mind.
Huh? Nothing you bolded was anything I said. Good lord, read what you're replying to before jumping to conclusions.
This is the dumbest argument ever and I'm out.
Zakaz made a great point and, as an impartial observer, I don't see that you successfully refuted his comments.
Well, he is correct in that my bolded point wasn't anything he said, but it was the original quote I was referencing (and he was defending) - as such, my point remains.
I just think you jumped on the guy a bit too much and thought I need to point out that his reasoning isn't that unreasonable. I didn't read his full post, so forgive me if he went full on crazy and I was defending him
All I was trying to get at was that it's not that crazy to think that the RMAH may have been a small factor in their design process. Personally, I think it's likely that the RMAH had at least a small part in a few of their design choices but I don't really care either way. It is what it is and I don't fault them for trying to make money.
I think it's a bit silly to say there's no way that the RMAH could have been a factor(no matter how small) in any of their decisions. It's a revenue source for them so of course they will encourage their customers to use it. Does that mean they'll design the entire game around the RMAH? Of course not, but I'm sure many decisions were made with the RMAH in mind.
The RMAH likely is part of their design philosophy, but only insomuch as the GAH is: the expectation that players will trade quality items they cannot use for ones they can use. While the old Diablo 2 system of item to item trades is effectively eliminated, the new process is actually much better in terms of actual value trades (you get "exact" market value for your item in a universal currency that can then be used to purchase anything you want). The only problem with this is that it greatly accelerates item acquisition, thus diminishing overall longevity (some like this, others don't - it really depends on how much of your life you wish to spend grinding for gear).
I really don't think the RMAH is some jackpot Blizzard is banking on for their bonuses at the end of the year. Is it profitable? Most likely, I don't deny that. But profitable and lucrative are different things here. For most intents and purposes, you make something profitable at a minimum for future expenditures (systems upgrades, employee raises, development, etc). While I'm not naive enough to think they're sitting at that minimum, I'm also hard-pressed to believe they're going out of their way to drive players to the RMAH with changes to loot or game mechanics in an effort to raise those profits. Not only is that incredibly difficult to do, it's also bordering on illegal (they have enough legal issues with the RMAH as it is).
The RMAH likely is part of their design philosophy, but only insomuch as the GAH is: the expectation that players will trade quality items they cannot use for ones they can use. While the old Diablo 2 system of item to item trades is effectively eliminated, the new process is actually much better in terms of actual value trades (you get "exact" market value for your item in a universal currency that can then be used to purchase anything you want). The only problem with this is that it greatly accelerates item acquisition, thus diminishing overall longevity (some like this, others don't - it really depends on how much of your life you wish to spend grinding for gear).
I really don't think the RMAH is some jackpot Blizzard is banking on for their bonuses at the end of the year. Is it profitable? Most likely, I don't deny that. But profitable and lucrative are different things here. For most intents and purposes, you make something profitable at a minimum for future expenditures (systems upgrades, employee raises, development, etc). While I'm not naive enough to think they're sitting at that minimum, I'm also hard-pressed to believe they're going out of their way to drive players to the RMAH with changes to loot or game mechanics in an effort to raise those profits. Not only is that incredibly difficult to do, it's also bordering on illegal (they have enough legal issues with the RMAH as it is).
The RMAH is a great way for Blizzard to secure funds to excuse prolonged expenditures toward this game for many years into the future. The players, even the ones whom don't use the RMAH, even the ones whom hate the RMAH, stand to benefit from Blizzards ability to put man hours into D3 without it becoming a burden to their profit margin.
This is of course assuming that D3 is a popular game 5-10 years from now, as many of us hope it will be.
As to legal issues concerning the RMAH; I trust that Blizzard has at their disposal a team of top-shelf lawyers whom combed through the legal ins-n-outs of the proposition well ahead of time to make sure that everything was square.
Is there any manipulation on Blizzards part to program the game in a manner intended to drive people to the RMAH?
This question is absurd. People are of free will....they can choose to participate, they can choose to decline participation. So, what if a player feels they cannot enjoy the game or otherwise succeed without using the RMAH? Will they be inclined to use the RMAH because Blizzard made the game too hard by design? Sure, I'm sure some/many will. But....this entity existed in Diablo 2 as well, only it wasn't the software company getting a cut. It was some spamming asshole named Mike or Zheng Min Quan that sit in their dark bedroom monitoring 20 computers that are running bots (two practices that hurt the player). People use their wallets in every game to buy themselves ahead.
Is there any manipulation on Blizzards part to program the game in a manner intended to drive people to the RMAH?
This question is absurd. People are of free will....they can choose to participate, they can choose to decline participation. So, what if a player feels they cannot enjoy the game or otherwise succeed without using the RMAH? Will they be inclined to use the RMAH because Blizzard made the game too hard by design? Sure, I'm sure some/many will. But....this entity existed in in Diablo 2 as well, only it wasn't the software company getting a cut. It was some spamming asshole named Mike or Zheng Min Quan that sits in their dark bedroom monitoring 20 computers that are running bots. People use their wallets in every game to buy themselves ahead.
While I will never purchase an item on the RMAH (or D2JSP or any of that garbage)... I agree wholeheartedly. I've said it before - you can check my post history - I feel that whether or not Blizzard is trying to "scam" us into using the RMAH that I am still vastly happier that Blizzard is getting the auction fees and not some 3rd party site. Why? Because money going to D2JSP doesn't inherently help me, but money going to Blizzard does, because I'm using Blizzard products. I would defend Steam much the same way, it has less to do with the gaming studio and more to do with the fact that said gaming studio can generate some revenue from a game that otherwise would generate no revenue which will, hopefully, allow it to continue into the future for a long, long, time.
EDIT
To be clear, RMAH conspiracy or not, if I have to choose between D2JSP getting a cut of the transactions or the game studio (like Blizzard or Valve) I'm going to choose the game studio simply because it will ensure that the servers stay on just a little longer and maybe I get another patch or two out of the game I'm playing.
I do LOVE the RMP affix. It is borderline genius and I simply do not understand how more core-fans aren't loving this affix. It does provide more room for a bad roll....BUT, as an old school D2 fan, it is the potential this RMP affix has to roll truly unique and very powerful items that I have a stout appreciation for.
feel bad for you guys I dont' even use mf gear and have made 80m in drops.
Well....congratulations. I've made maybe 40mm but didn't start using MF gear until recently.
I don't like the MF switch....it seems a hassle and being the 'ol school playa that I am, I think it to be a cheap trick.
I spent a nominal amount of gold on MF gear with AR and dex. At first I wanted to see if there was indeed a difference, so I got my MF up to 180% with 5NV. I noticed a drastic change in the number of rare drops. I was getting rares before my 5stack at a much higher rate, and 2-4 rares FAR more often than before.
I am currently working on getting my MF to the 250%-300% range. Big money drops are truly all about luck. MF helps you make your own luck.
The difference is the drop rate. The drop rate, is so miniscule in D3 than D2, that even at max MF, like me, although you will see better items, more often, then when I was farming with NV stack alone, still 80% of the loot you pick up, is worthless.
you know, one thing I have been really noticing:
Yes, 80+% of the loot is worthless. This is being VERY conservative, at that. Sellable/Usable items at atleast 2% of time or rarer, with 20-40% ofd them being nothing but for breaking into essences.
...SO WHY PICK UP THE OTHER ITEMS!
Biggest thing I don't get. D2, how many "godly rags of the whale" and shit did you actually take the time to click on, loot and identify, and subsequently vendor?!
Hint, stop looting iL60 and below items (except rings/amulets/follower focus). Stop taking the time to identify those. And Protip (mainly iL61 weapons and such), you can break those without identifying.
It'll cut atleast 1/3 the time off your clears, not only from saved identifying time, but less trips into town.
The RMAH is a great way for Blizzard to secure funds to excuse prolonged expenditures toward this game for many years into the future. The players, even the ones whom don't use the RMAH, even the ones whom hate the RMAH, stand to benefit from Blizzards ability to put man hours into D3 without it becoming a burden to their profit margin.
This is of course assuming that D3 is a popular game 5-10 years from now, as many of us hope it will be.
As to legal issues concerning the RMAH; I trust that Blizzard has at their disposal a team of top-shelf lawyers whom combed through the legal ins-n-outs of the proposition well ahead of time to make sure that everything was square.
Is there any manipulation on Blizzards part to program the game in a manner intended to drive people to the RMAH?
This question is absurd. People are of free will....they can choose to participate, they can choose to decline participation. So, what if a player feels they cannot enjoy the game or otherwise succeed without using the RMAH? Will they be inclined to use the RMAH because Blizzard made the game too hard by design? Sure, I'm sure some/many will. But....this entity existed in Diablo 2 as well, only it wasn't the software company getting a cut. It was some spamming asshole named Mike or Zheng Min Quan that sit in their dark bedroom monitoring 20 computers that are running bots (two practices that hurt the player). People use their wallets in every game to buy themselves ahead.
I didn't mean to imply they were currently facing legal issues, just that they've made note that the process in general is a very complex one, and makes it fairly clear that they don't just get to willy-nilly change things up to "scam" players. I've no doubt you understand that, but some of the other, uh, less sharp people don't seem to get it.
I can't +1 enough the point that Blizzard getting a cut instead of D2JSP or some other random self-serving site is nothing but win for players. Too easy to overlook that in a knee-jerk reaction.
The difference is the drop rate. The drop rate, is so miniscule in D3 than D2, that even at max MF, like me, although you will see better items, more often, then when I was farming with NV stack alone, still 80% of the loot you pick up, is worthless.
you know, one thing I have been really noticing:
Yes, 80+% of the loot is worthless. This is being VERY conservative, at that. Sellable/Usable items at atleast 2% of time or rarer, with 20-40% ofd them being nothing but for breaking into essences.
...SO WHY PICK UP THE OTHER ITEMS!
Biggest thing I don't get. D2, how many "godly rags of the whale" and shit did you actually take the time to click on, loot and identify, and subsequently vendor?!
Hint, stop looting iL60 and below items (except rings/amulets/follower focus). Stop taking the time to identify those. And Protip (mainly iL61 weapons and such), you can break those without identifying.
It'll cut atleast 1/3 the time off your clears, not only from saved identifying time, but less trips into town.
I actually do loot everything, but only because I enjoy blowing things up, examining crap, and the like. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but looting everything Ilvl61+ can actually be profitable (since essences are crazy expensive). In the end, though, leaving the rest on the ground is indeed the most efficient way to farm.
The other problem is this idea that somehow EVERYTHING in Diablo 2 was just awesome. I mean, if it dropped, you picked it up, right? Yeah, no. You never looted blue items unless it was a charm. You sold a vast majority of the crap you looted for repair and gambling gold (since it was good for nothing else), and most of the uniques found were extremely low in value because people wanted perfect or near perfect rolls.
Anyone complaining about the drop rates in this game compared to D2 has some seriously muddled memories of Diablo 2.
Anyone complaining about the drop rates in this game compared to D2 has some seriously muddled memories of Diablo 2.
Please take the time to read the complaints about loot. People are not complaining about the drop RATE - they are complaining about the quality of items as a whole. The gear property rolls are so terrible on most gear, that you wade through 80% of insulting crap that you just died four times to a ridiculous elite pack affix roll, to vendor it all.
D2 - remember how you never picked up blues? Why, because they were crap. When a shiny yellow dropped, you picked it up. Sometimes it was crap, sometimes not - significantly less margin of error on rares in D2 than D3. When you saw that unique gold item or the green set peice, you KNEW you were going to get something good. Even it was a low level set or unique - you could still trade it for better. You pick up Legendary brown or greet Set items now and you 80% of the time laugh at the shit-tastic roll and store it anyway, because you can't bring yourself to get rid of it.
The items themselves and their properties are what the problem is - not the drop rate.
Anyone complaining about the drop rates in this game compared to D2 has some seriously muddled memories of Diablo 2.
Please take the time to read the complaints about loot. People are not complaining about the drop RATE - they are complaining about the quality of items as a whole. The gear property rolls are so terrible on most gear, that you wade through 80% of insulting crap that you just died four times to a ridiculous elite pack affix roll, to vendor it all.
D2 - remember how you never picked up blues? Why, because they were crap. When a shiny yellow dropped, you picked it up. Sometimes it was crap, sometimes not - significantly less margin of error on rares in D2 than D3. When you saw that unique gold item or the green set peice, you KNEW you were going to get something good. Even it was a low level set or unique - you could still trade it for better. You pick up Legendary brown or greet Set items now and you 80% of the time laugh at the shit-tastic roll and store it anyway, because you can't bring yourself to get rid of it.
The items themselves and their properties are what the problem is - not the drop rate.
At this risk of coming across like a dick and also being a tad pedantic but if you are dying 4 times in a row to an elite pack and consider that farming, you are doing it wrong. That sounds like progression. Sure bad elite packs happen and you get a particularly bad combo of affixes or you get tired and lazy , whatever but again if you truly are "farming" then a few deaths should not even impact you, monetarily speaking.
Now before anyone calls me out, yes I know that nowhere in this post does it specify farming but come on isn't that what we are talking about here? I know for me that when I am doing progression on a new act I don't really care about drops. If I get an upgrade that's awesome but it's a bonus. I don't really start looking at risk vs reward until I am on a farming run. I don't consider anything other than a complete faceroll, farming. If you are struggling on your Act III "farm runs" then it's probably not a farm run. Just because you have cleared the content does not mean it's on farm status.
Also a lot of the low level D2 Unique/Set pieces were garbage too. I vendored tons of unuqiues and sets over the years because they simply were no good. Especially after LoD when it all came down to runes and well rolled (socketed) grey items.
edit: Yes I understand that in order to get to that "faceroll" status you need the gear. I also agree that the itemization needs some tweaking. Maybe I am just super lucky but I have yet to get to the point where I am mad when I un'ID some gear. It seems to me like people are putting unrealistic expectations on themselves about clearing content versus farming it.
Anyone complaining about the drop rates in this game compared to D2 has some seriously muddled memories of Diablo 2.
Please take the time to read the complaints about loot. People are not complaining about the drop RATE - they are complaining about the quality of items as a whole. The gear property rolls are so terrible on most gear, that you wade through 80% of insulting crap that you just died four times to a ridiculous elite pack affix roll, to vendor it all.
D2 - remember how you never picked up blues? Why, because they were crap. When a shiny yellow dropped, you picked it up. Sometimes it was crap, sometimes not - significantly less margin of error on rares in D2 than D3. When you saw that unique gold item or the green set peice, you KNEW you were going to get something good. Even it was a low level set or unique - you could still trade it for better. You pick up Legendary brown or greet Set items now and you 80% of the time laugh at the shit-tastic roll and store it anyway, because you can't bring yourself to get rid of it.
The items themselves and their properties are what the problem is - not the drop rate.
In a rush to finish the post up before my meeting started, I erroneously used the word "rate" instead of "quality." It was fairly obvious from my post that I was speaking directly to the quality of item drops (specifically where I mentioned ignoring blues in D2, which you picked up on), but for the sake of clarity, you are correct, drop rates aren't the biggest complaint.
With that said, you're still missing the point: the vast majority of the items that dropped in Diablo 2 were entirely useless, if not so low in value that you didn't even bother with them. This includes blues, yellows, and a huge selection of unique items (and please don't forget that shit like Sigons could drop even in Hell). Go ahead and boot up Diablo 2 and see what I mean. I'm seeing a serious case of confirmation bias here, and you're pretty obviously forgetting how abysmal chances of finding good items in Diablo 2 was.
Lastly, I find it funny you mention the "lower level" stuff that you could trade up for, but I see no mention of doing the same thing in Diablo 3. Why are you willing to trade some shit like a level 20 set item for a mid to low range rune than you are to trade some average item for 20-30k gold? Bit of a one-way street, don't you think?
And, I'll be honest, I think that's one of the things about D2 that people didn't realize they liked. They learned the items. They planned their character out meticulously. They had day-to-day goals almost. In D3, because of the total dominance of rares we do not have anything close to that. We are *always* hunting for totally random stuff. We have the goal of upgrading our gear, but it's a completely nebulous and ambiguous idea at this point in time.
This has ALWAYS been my #1 problem with Diablo 3. Ask yourself what you're hunting for? This mythical thing known as "an upgrade".
Also, the third, fourth, and 5th tier crap armor gauntlets all had use in end-game....NOW, anything below lvl 63 is crap and 85% of the lvl 63 items are crap too. The range of "useful" on items is so ridiculously compressed.
The big difference between Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 is the auction house. The auction house has drastically increased the availability of high quality gear to players of all stripes. Hence, items that would have been 'decent' in Diablo 2, simply due to impediments to trade, are more or less tossed now without a second thought. Trading used to take a ton of work, which made it uncommon; now it is quick and easy, and is extremely common.
Aside: what are these 'really cool affixes' from Diablo 2 that you miss so much, whose absence had left the items in this game boring? The affix list in D3 is very comparable to the D2 list. The main difference is in the uniques, as D2 had some very unique properties on some of its items - though, to be fair, the vast majority of their uber-uniques didn't do anything cool as much as they just had ridiculously high stats that obsolesced everything else in the game.
I am looking forward to more legitimately different uniques coming in the next patch, and I'm hopeful that they continue the D3 feel of uniques doing something unique, not strictly better than every other item. Other than that, what's missing? Jewels? Sure, there's some value there that would be a good addition for an expansion. Charms? Terrible design, poor tension. Runewords? Those were just uniques. Honestly, if they do a good job on the legendary pass (moving the damage mods on weapons up, putting a unique property on a bunch of items) I can't see much to complain about in the itemization here.
I like your attitude and I agree that the game is in good repair as a core to be built upon, and likely was presented in such a state with future embellishment in mind.
However, my one serious "WTF" point of contention is itemization. I just can't wrap my head around it....I cannot extend a pass without protest of an initial launch of the LONG awaited Diablo sequel that has such woefully inadequate items/dynamic selection of items.
"Get an authenticator to protect your Legendary stuff"........yea, and I'm going to get a car alarm for my 1976 Ford Pinto......THE FUCK?
Aside from the woeful Legendaries/Sets (which has been addressed via a blue post just hours ago quoting a statement from Morhaim himself), there is a glaring issue with a lack of affixes for items and a lack of ancillary items such as charms, jewels and/or a wider selection of gems.
We are bound like a ball and chain to gear that must have All Resistances affix....gear that would otherwise be very valuable is seen as worthless without this affix. Ancillary items that have resistance affixes could alleviate the absolute need for gear pieces to have an inherent resistance affix.
It is the very fact that these things occurred in the first place that has me quite concerned....
If Mr Wilson had called me on a Friday night and said "Hey, we need you to give us an itemization template by Monday morning...get on it"....I would have done far better than what was introduced to us at launch. In three days, just me and 6 cans of Monster energy drink would've compiled a better selection than that. They had 10 years.....
I do LOVE the RMP affix. It is borderline genius and I simply do not understand how more core-fans aren't loving this affix. It does provide more room for a bad roll....BUT, as an old school D2 fan, it is the potential this RMP affix has to roll truly unique and very powerful items that I have a stout appreciation for.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Mis-information is fun! Guess I won't bother reading the rest.
To be concise with my words - I do not think the RMAH is a consipricy, I too think its a great business plan. Its just not the game that I thought I was going to get. I do think they intentionally designed a game's loot system to support the RMAH mechanic, hands down. Not to support the fun gameplay that people were expecting from this game. They are changing legendary items - why - because they suddenly felt like it, or is it because a vast majority of the community started putting two and two together? That's not tin-foil hat conspiracy theorizing - that's people discovering that the game there were expecting is not what Blizzard designed. As I was intitially saying, they wanted Inferno to be too many things. An end-game, a challenge mode for the most dedicated players, a gear-check which is a motivator for the RMAH, etc. People were not aware of how powerful that motivator was going to be and how the item system is very much in support of that.
Yes, people were going to use 3rd parties to get the gear they wanted. The RMAH is their answer for that, as they and so many others have said. I don't have imperical evidence to show you that the RMAH is a cash cow for Blizzard, but to clarify; I don't think it is either. But you my friend have to accept one simple thing; Blizzard is a corporation and it absolutely will not launch a system that costs them time, money and personnel, UNLESS they are getting compenstated for it. The RMAH isn't just out of the goodness of their hearts to protect us from being taken by 3rd parties. There's money in it for them. Admit that? Good - take one more step and now explain to me why the item system in this game was designed to be this bad, the Legendary items are being reworked from "as intended" and all of this happening because they are simply getting pressure from the public to do so.
Totally agree. I want their to be challenges. But I refuse to accept the answer of "well there are some things in this game, you'll just have to avoid." Its poor design and I expect more from Blizzard. Stun-locked because the monster is designed that way is bad, but okay. A challenge. Stun-locking and then have another ability to do it again - because they designed a generic random system to add that second stun-lock ability to said creature, is unacceptable. Show some style and adjust it. Give it a higher chance to have an ability that it doesn't already have it its base of abilities.
First off you quoted me and for not recoginizing me, you now owe me a new improved Legendary when they come out. I'll send you an invoice.
I love the Diablo series and I enjoy Blizzard's games - but for now, I'm done and will play SC2 or some other companies titles that I enjoy. And 6 months ago, I never thought in a million years that I would find myself saying that statement when talking about Diablo 3. I wanted this game so badly and now that its here and the shape that its in, I just can't forgive that.
You are right - "Almost There" is a vague moving target. But here is my evidence as to why we have a right to feel that it might not be so vague. Inferno was supposed to be so super hard, right? Remember the videos they teased us with, with Dev's saying "oh you're gonna die a lot!". Inferno was beaten in 72 hours. By, what many have called an exploit - but others say well done. The guy used the spells and abilities given at launch to do it. They didn't catch that? During their Alpha testing phase? No, obviously they didn't. They waited until their community did and then they fixed it. That in my book means the game was not "Almost There". Nether Tentacles for the DH. During the Alpha testing, someone didn't sit down and give themselves a nice set of godly gear (as crappy as the gear is) and start melting everything down to realize that it might be slightly OP? Of course they didn't - because if they did AND there were concerned about the game being "Almost There" before release, they would have changed it. Finally; Attack Speed. Alpha Testing - give yourself a set of godly gear - 3 or 4 attacks a second - deduce that its too much - change it BEFORE the game is release.
Guess what - if they did, the game would have been "Almost There."
edit: apparently I can't type.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I just think you jumped on the guy a bit too much and thought I need to point out that his reasoning isn't that unreasonable. I didn't read his full post, so forgive me if he went full on crazy and I was defending him
All I was trying to get at was that it's not that crazy to think that the RMAH may have been a small factor in their design process. Personally, I think it's likely that the RMAH had at least a small part in a few of their design choices but I don't really care either way. It is what it is and I don't fault them for trying to make money.
I think it's a bit silly to say there's no way that the RMAH could have been a factor(no matter how small) in any of their decisions. It's a revenue source for them so of course they will encourage their customers to use it. Does that mean they'll design the entire game around the RMAH? Of course not, but I'm sure many decisions were made with the RMAH in mind.
The RMAH likely is part of their design philosophy, but only insomuch as the GAH is: the expectation that players will trade quality items they cannot use for ones they can use. While the old Diablo 2 system of item to item trades is effectively eliminated, the new process is actually much better in terms of actual value trades (you get "exact" market value for your item in a universal currency that can then be used to purchase anything you want). The only problem with this is that it greatly accelerates item acquisition, thus diminishing overall longevity (some like this, others don't - it really depends on how much of your life you wish to spend grinding for gear).
I really don't think the RMAH is some jackpot Blizzard is banking on for their bonuses at the end of the year. Is it profitable? Most likely, I don't deny that. But profitable and lucrative are different things here. For most intents and purposes, you make something profitable at a minimum for future expenditures (systems upgrades, employee raises, development, etc). While I'm not naive enough to think they're sitting at that minimum, I'm also hard-pressed to believe they're going out of their way to drive players to the RMAH with changes to loot or game mechanics in an effort to raise those profits. Not only is that incredibly difficult to do, it's also bordering on illegal (they have enough legal issues with the RMAH as it is).
The RMAH is a great way for Blizzard to secure funds to excuse prolonged expenditures toward this game for many years into the future. The players, even the ones whom don't use the RMAH, even the ones whom hate the RMAH, stand to benefit from Blizzards ability to put man hours into D3 without it becoming a burden to their profit margin.
This is of course assuming that D3 is a popular game 5-10 years from now, as many of us hope it will be.
As to legal issues concerning the RMAH; I trust that Blizzard has at their disposal a team of top-shelf lawyers whom combed through the legal ins-n-outs of the proposition well ahead of time to make sure that everything was square.
Is there any manipulation on Blizzards part to program the game in a manner intended to drive people to the RMAH?
This question is absurd. People are of free will....they can choose to participate, they can choose to decline participation. So, what if a player feels they cannot enjoy the game or otherwise succeed without using the RMAH? Will they be inclined to use the RMAH because Blizzard made the game too hard by design? Sure, I'm sure some/many will. But....this entity existed in Diablo 2 as well, only it wasn't the software company getting a cut. It was some spamming asshole named Mike or Zheng Min Quan that sit in their dark bedroom monitoring 20 computers that are running bots (two practices that hurt the player). People use their wallets in every game to buy themselves ahead.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
While I will never purchase an item on the RMAH (or D2JSP or any of that garbage)... I agree wholeheartedly. I've said it before - you can check my post history - I feel that whether or not Blizzard is trying to "scam" us into using the RMAH that I am still vastly happier that Blizzard is getting the auction fees and not some 3rd party site. Why? Because money going to D2JSP doesn't inherently help me, but money going to Blizzard does, because I'm using Blizzard products. I would defend Steam much the same way, it has less to do with the gaming studio and more to do with the fact that said gaming studio can generate some revenue from a game that otherwise would generate no revenue which will, hopefully, allow it to continue into the future for a long, long, time.
EDIT
To be clear, RMAH conspiracy or not, if I have to choose between D2JSP getting a cut of the transactions or the game studio (like Blizzard or Valve) I'm going to choose the game studio simply because it will ensure that the servers stay on just a little longer and maybe I get another patch or two out of the game I'm playing.
Sorry....*Random Magical Properties
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Well....congratulations. I've made maybe 40mm but didn't start using MF gear until recently.
I don't like the MF switch....it seems a hassle and being the 'ol school playa that I am, I think it to be a cheap trick.
I spent a nominal amount of gold on MF gear with AR and dex. At first I wanted to see if there was indeed a difference, so I got my MF up to 180% with 5NV. I noticed a drastic change in the number of rare drops. I was getting rares before my 5stack at a much higher rate, and 2-4 rares FAR more often than before.
I am currently working on getting my MF to the 250%-300% range. Big money drops are truly all about luck. MF helps you make your own luck.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
you know, one thing I have been really noticing:
Yes, 80+% of the loot is worthless. This is being VERY conservative, at that. Sellable/Usable items at atleast 2% of time or rarer, with 20-40% ofd them being nothing but for breaking into essences.
...SO WHY PICK UP THE OTHER ITEMS!
Biggest thing I don't get. D2, how many "godly rags of the whale" and shit did you actually take the time to click on, loot and identify, and subsequently vendor?!
Hint, stop looting iL60 and below items (except rings/amulets/follower focus). Stop taking the time to identify those. And Protip (mainly iL61 weapons and such), you can break those without identifying.
It'll cut atleast 1/3 the time off your clears, not only from saved identifying time, but less trips into town.
I didn't mean to imply they were currently facing legal issues, just that they've made note that the process in general is a very complex one, and makes it fairly clear that they don't just get to willy-nilly change things up to "scam" players. I've no doubt you understand that, but some of the other, uh, less sharp people don't seem to get it.
I can't +1 enough the point that Blizzard getting a cut instead of D2JSP or some other random self-serving site is nothing but win for players. Too easy to overlook that in a knee-jerk reaction.
I actually do loot everything, but only because I enjoy blowing things up, examining crap, and the like. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but looting everything Ilvl61+ can actually be profitable (since essences are crazy expensive). In the end, though, leaving the rest on the ground is indeed the most efficient way to farm.
The other problem is this idea that somehow EVERYTHING in Diablo 2 was just awesome. I mean, if it dropped, you picked it up, right? Yeah, no. You never looted blue items unless it was a charm. You sold a vast majority of the crap you looted for repair and gambling gold (since it was good for nothing else), and most of the uniques found were extremely low in value because people wanted perfect or near perfect rolls.
Anyone complaining about the drop rates in this game compared to D2 has some seriously muddled memories of Diablo 2.
Please take the time to read the complaints about loot. People are not complaining about the drop RATE - they are complaining about the quality of items as a whole. The gear property rolls are so terrible on most gear, that you wade through 80% of insulting crap that you just died four times to a ridiculous elite pack affix roll, to vendor it all.
D2 - remember how you never picked up blues? Why, because they were crap. When a shiny yellow dropped, you picked it up. Sometimes it was crap, sometimes not - significantly less margin of error on rares in D2 than D3. When you saw that unique gold item or the green set peice, you KNEW you were going to get something good. Even it was a low level set or unique - you could still trade it for better. You pick up Legendary brown or greet Set items now and you 80% of the time laugh at the shit-tastic roll and store it anyway, because you can't bring yourself to get rid of it.
The items themselves and their properties are what the problem is - not the drop rate.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
At this risk of coming across like a dick and also being a tad pedantic but if you are dying 4 times in a row to an elite pack and consider that farming, you are doing it wrong. That sounds like progression. Sure bad elite packs happen and you get a particularly bad combo of affixes or you get tired and lazy , whatever but again if you truly are "farming" then a few deaths should not even impact you, monetarily speaking.
Now before anyone calls me out, yes I know that nowhere in this post does it specify farming but come on isn't that what we are talking about here? I know for me that when I am doing progression on a new act I don't really care about drops. If I get an upgrade that's awesome but it's a bonus. I don't really start looking at risk vs reward until I am on a farming run. I don't consider anything other than a complete faceroll, farming. If you are struggling on your Act III "farm runs" then it's probably not a farm run. Just because you have cleared the content does not mean it's on farm status.
Also a lot of the low level D2 Unique/Set pieces were garbage too. I vendored tons of unuqiues and sets over the years because they simply were no good. Especially after LoD when it all came down to runes and well rolled (socketed) grey items.
edit: Yes I understand that in order to get to that "faceroll" status you need the gear. I also agree that the itemization needs some tweaking. Maybe I am just super lucky but I have yet to get to the point where I am mad when I un'ID some gear. It seems to me like people are putting unrealistic expectations on themselves about clearing content versus farming it.
In a rush to finish the post up before my meeting started, I erroneously used the word "rate" instead of "quality." It was fairly obvious from my post that I was speaking directly to the quality of item drops (specifically where I mentioned ignoring blues in D2, which you picked up on), but for the sake of clarity, you are correct, drop rates aren't the biggest complaint.
With that said, you're still missing the point: the vast majority of the items that dropped in Diablo 2 were entirely useless, if not so low in value that you didn't even bother with them. This includes blues, yellows, and a huge selection of unique items (and please don't forget that shit like Sigons could drop even in Hell). Go ahead and boot up Diablo 2 and see what I mean. I'm seeing a serious case of confirmation bias here, and you're pretty obviously forgetting how abysmal chances of finding good items in Diablo 2 was.
Lastly, I find it funny you mention the "lower level" stuff that you could trade up for, but I see no mention of doing the same thing in Diablo 3. Why are you willing to trade some shit like a level 20 set item for a mid to low range rune than you are to trade some average item for 20-30k gold? Bit of a one-way street, don't you think?
This has ALWAYS been my #1 problem with Diablo 3. Ask yourself what you're hunting for? This mythical thing known as "an upgrade".
Also, the third, fourth, and 5th tier crap armor gauntlets all had use in end-game....NOW, anything below lvl 63 is crap and 85% of the lvl 63 items are crap too. The range of "useful" on items is so ridiculously compressed.
It doesn't get much better.
I am looking forward to more legitimately different uniques coming in the next patch, and I'm hopeful that they continue the D3 feel of uniques doing something unique, not strictly better than every other item. Other than that, what's missing? Jewels? Sure, there's some value there that would be a good addition for an expansion. Charms? Terrible design, poor tension. Runewords? Those were just uniques. Honestly, if they do a good job on the legendary pass (moving the damage mods on weapons up, putting a unique property on a bunch of items) I can't see much to complain about in the itemization here.