The impossible is referring to farming Act 3 with as much mf as Act1. Even if you can roll through Act 3 with 200 mf, you can swap out some gear to achieve 250-300 mf to farm Act 1. Unless you're near the max mf attainable, there will be a difference between acts.
You're still attempting to compare acts as though MF is linear in how it affects quality of drops. It's not - it's been proven time and time again. 200 MF in Act 3 is massively more potent than 200 or even 300 in Act 1, and that's not even including NV (which on its own makes act 3 far more lucrative than Act 1, even with a significant MF gap for Act 1).
You're also missing the point on what Diablo is about - it's a gear grind. Why shouldn't you have to spend time in Act 1 with high MF to work your way up to Act 3 gear with some MF (and again, you don't need equal MF to tip drop rates in favor of Act 3, despite your incorrect math attempting to claim that's the case)?
Please get actual facts and numbers before making assumptions to plug into over-simplified equations which exaggerate a problem that isn't really a problem in the first place.
I have said that I know mf isn't linear, but it's to prove a point. The effect is to a lesser extent, but it is still there. It will always be there unless you use equal amounts of magic find in Act 1 and Act 3. And I can farm Act 3 with magic find right now. I can probably get to 200 mf after nv pretty easily and still have whimsyshire under farm. But I will always know that I could be farming Act 1 with a 300 mf suit and be getting more drops.
Let's say you kill 20 elites in a regular run. I'll buy you that in Act 1, you can do so with 200mf, while in Act 3, you'll have 0. Fine.
Now, the NV gives you 75% mf, which means 275%mf in act 1, and 75%mf in act 3. Even more important, you have a guaranteed yellow drop. So, if your 20 elites give you 80 items, 20 of them are guaranteed rares, and the other 60 can be yellow, blue, or white. Let's say with 0% mf, you get 1 in 20 items to be a rare, for the sake of simplicity. That's 3 items. With 75% mf from NV, in act 3 you will have 5 rares. With 275% mf in act 1, you'd have 11 rares. Now add the 20 guaranteed rares from NV stack, and you'll get 25 rare items in act 3, and 31 rare items in act 1. The quality of drops, however, is much better in act 3. Around 4-5% of those will be level 63, in act 1, and around 16% of those will be lvl 63 in act 3. Which means 1-2 level 63 drops in act 1, in his example, and 4-5 level 63 drops in act 3 in this example.
Of course this is an oversimplification, but it works to show you where is the flaw in your argument.
And you fail to account act difficulty. As packs in act1 drop in 10 secs but in act3 drop in 0.5-1 mins. So you can kill more packs faster. If you can get 4 times the elites per hour you kill on act3 while on act1 it is worth it. If not keep farming act3.
And you fail to account that the whole reason MF is lower is because the player is using better gear to compensate... which in turn often means more DPS.
Let's say you kill 20 elites in a regular run. I'll buy you that in Act 1, you can do so with 200mf, while in Act 3, you'll have 0. Fine.
Now, the NV gives you 75% mf, which means 275%mf in act 1, and 75%mf in act 3. Even more important, you have a guaranteed yellow drop. So, if your 20 elites give you 80 items, 20 of them are guaranteed rares, and the other 60 can be yellow, blue, or white. Let's say with 0% mf, you get 1 in 20 items to be a rare, for the sake of simplicity. That's 3 items. With 75% mf from NV, in act 3 you will have 5 rares. With 275% mf in act 1, you'd have 11 rares. Now add the 20 guaranteed rares from NV stack, and you'll get 25 rare items in act 3, and 31 rare items in act 1. The quality of drops, however, is much better in act 3. Around 4-5% of those will be level 63, in act 1, and around 16% of those will be lvl 63 in act 3. Which means 1-2 level 63 drops in act 1, in his example, and 4-5 level 63 drops in act 3 in this example.
Of course this is an oversimplification, but it works to show you where is the flaw in your argument.
You forgot to calculate in the hp ratios between Act 1 and Act 3. Without factoring in time traveled/monster types/mini-bosses, you should be killing 3-4x the amount of elites in Act 1.
1) My original point was that the drop rates between Act 1 and Act 3 are equal with the same amounts of magic find. But this is only possible with gear-swapping in the game(good or bad).
2) Yes Act 1 is easy, maybe too easy. Making it harder would certainly alleviate the issue of unequal drop rates with different amounts of magic find. But that would severely harm the amount of people who complete Inferno. More people would just up and quit if they couldn't break through the Act 1 wall.
3/4) I don't know what that has to do with what I said in the first post.
I run acts 1,2,3 with the same 290 mf without swapping and shit and i can assure you that it is possible. Also the drop rates might be equal but the ilvl is not.
yes, but your gear is way, way overkill for Act 1. You could likely drop a load of dps/hp/whatever for another 50-70 magic find. Though you are nearing the point where the differences between the acts is diminished.
You forgot to calculate in the hp ratios between Act 1 and Act 3. Without factoring in time traveled/monster types/mini-bosses, you should be killing 3-4x the amount of elites in Act 1.
You can't just NOT factor in things. Jesus... christ. Seriously. Travel time is non-trivial, especially in Act 1, where 75% of your farming time IS travel time.
How can you possibly make that statement and expect to be taken seriously?
How would you like me to factor that in? And by the way, I travel faster in Act 1 since I can switch in vault:tumble. And monster types favors Act 1 by a huge margin. You got enemy damage which favors Act 1. It's probably in the favor of Act 3 that I'm not including that stuff.
If you're going to account for the travel time in Act 1, then you must also factor in the monster types. Act 3 has Soul Rippers/Lashers, Winged Moloks, Spearmen, perma-fast Demonic Tremors, Phasebeasts, etc...What's the most annoying monster in Act 1? Enraged Phantoms maybe just because they have a weird pathing AI. Even though I'm overgeared for Act 3 right now, I'm terrified of demonic tremor elites because for some reason, they can move faster than my DH. Even if you run across some absurd affix combination in Act 1, you're probably not going to be fazed because the difficulty is so much lower.
That being said, even when gear-swapping is nerfed, I'll still probably continue to farm Whimsyshire despite what I think about drop rates. I can't bring myself to go back to Act 1 farming ever again.
They said several times already how they intend of having magic find amount the same by buffing it in some areas while making it unneeded or not good to swap gear, most likely valor stacks, therefore this thread has no meaning
/thread
I personally think Blizzard is stupid for even looking at MF gear swapping as a "problem that needs to be fixed". If stupid people want to waste bag space in MF gear and swap it, fine, that is their choice. I will continue to farm in my MF gear and upgrade it for further acts as I have done since I started playing the game. Right now I am in 300 MF farming act 3 without swapping anything. Its not hard to do.
Farming Act3 with 300 MF only means two things: (1) You are bullshitting us all or (2) You have simply overgeared the content by spending millions and millions of gold to get a gear that allows you to do so. Average Joe, his brother and large portion of the player base dont have such funds or gear.
Not even a DH, as the best character for farming, can conceivably get 300 gear and still be able to effectively farm Act3.
Only good characters should be farming the latest content of the game. A good MF set isnt even THAT expensive. I probably spent only 10mil on mine (without weapon), and im running 292% MF (templar, no buffs) with 120k dps (with SS). Can farm A3 just fine with that.
You should clear the game with normal gear, then you can focus on getting MF gear with dps stats that allow you to farm the content and get absolutely amazing gear, instead of spending 1 million at a random point in the game, and being a sick MF machine by pressing 1 button just before the elitepack dies.
That's nice that you get to spend that much on an extra set of gear, however some like me are extremely unlikely in drops, and barely make a 2 mil a day without farming half the day.
Only good characters should be farming the latest content of the game. A good MF set isnt even THAT expensive. I probably spent only 10mil on mine (without weapon), and im running 292% MF (templar, no buffs) with 120k dps (with SS). Can farm A3 just fine with that.
You should clear the game with normal gear, then you can focus on getting MF gear with dps stats that allow you to farm the content and get absolutely amazing gear, instead of spending 1 million at a random point in the game, and being a sick MF machine by pressing 1 button just before the elitepack dies.
This guy gets it.
The problem is people are so impatient and just see ACT 1 ACT 1 ACT 1 I AM FARMIN and mostly forget the big picture - there is a progression of gear and even if Act 1 is better than Act 3 with the absolute best gear available (which would certainly be hotfixed), what about Act 2 or Act 4 or Whimsyshire?
If this is a serious topic, instead of going into it with a conclusion and then tailoring the math (conveniently leaving out factors for "simplification," etc.) to fit that conclusion, why not do an exhaustive study on farming & MF throughout all four acts? Maybe with sufficient data we can see where the equations give us important data, etc. Maybe then we'd understand WHY certain things aren't worth farming, we'd understand how all the coefficients come together, etc.
Thusfar all we get is "I left this, this, and this out for simplification and that means Act 1 > Act 3 if they nerf gearswaps." Which, while perhaps hinting at a problem, really isn't thorough enough to demand something be done.
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You're still attempting to compare acts as though MF is linear in how it affects quality of drops. It's not - it's been proven time and time again. 200 MF in Act 3 is massively more potent than 200 or even 300 in Act 1, and that's not even including NV (which on its own makes act 3 far more lucrative than Act 1, even with a significant MF gap for Act 1).
You're also missing the point on what Diablo is about - it's a gear grind. Why shouldn't you have to spend time in Act 1 with high MF to work your way up to Act 3 gear with some MF (and again, you don't need equal MF to tip drop rates in favor of Act 3, despite your incorrect math attempting to claim that's the case)?
Please get actual facts and numbers before making assumptions to plug into over-simplified equations which exaggerate a problem that isn't really a problem in the first place.
You are wrong. Enough said. You're using arbitrary numbers in the face of actual math that has already disproved this.
Game over.
And you fail to account that the whole reason MF is lower is because the player is using better gear to compensate... which in turn often means more DPS.
yes, but your gear is way, way overkill for Act 1. You could likely drop a load of dps/hp/whatever for another 50-70 magic find. Though you are nearing the point where the differences between the acts is diminished.
You can't just NOT factor in things. Jesus... christ. Seriously. Travel time is non-trivial, especially in Act 1, where 75% of your farming time IS travel time.
How can you possibly make that statement and expect to be taken seriously?
Please, stop feeding the troll.
That being said, even when gear-swapping is nerfed, I'll still probably continue to farm Whimsyshire despite what I think about drop rates. I can't bring myself to go back to Act 1 farming ever again.
MF indirectly makes you get better items overall because it's turning those ilvl 63 whites into ilvl 63 rares...
/thread
That's nice that you get to spend that much on an extra set of gear, however some like me are extremely unlikely in drops, and barely make a 2 mil a day without farming half the day.
This guy gets it.
The problem is people are so impatient and just see ACT 1 ACT 1 ACT 1 I AM FARMIN and mostly forget the big picture - there is a progression of gear and even if Act 1 is better than Act 3 with the absolute best gear available (which would certainly be hotfixed), what about Act 2 or Act 4 or Whimsyshire?
If this is a serious topic, instead of going into it with a conclusion and then tailoring the math (conveniently leaving out factors for "simplification," etc.) to fit that conclusion, why not do an exhaustive study on farming & MF throughout all four acts? Maybe with sufficient data we can see where the equations give us important data, etc. Maybe then we'd understand WHY certain things aren't worth farming, we'd understand how all the coefficients come together, etc.
Thusfar all we get is "I left this, this, and this out for simplification and that means Act 1 > Act 3 if they nerf gearswaps." Which, while perhaps hinting at a problem, really isn't thorough enough to demand something be done.