I don't know who you're talking about because I can't view vids here at work but I assume it's Athene or Kripp or whatever their names are. They apparently play games purely for the launch hype and finishing them as quickly as possible, so it is 100% predictable that they would quit shortly after release. They got what they wanted right? I assume. Seems like a crap way to play games to me.
*EDIT*
Oh the guy's name was actually Force. Never heard of him. Where do you people even read about this stuff?
force was one of the original people doing video content for D3 before it was even in beta. (He was one of the biggest D3 youtubers) He actually did a show here on Diablofans (and is where he started out with his d3 "podcast"). He is also the only youtuber directly in the "official fansite program" for diablo 3
I assume you have actual datum that would show that a higher percentage of people are using the RMAH than were using D2JSP...
Otherwise, why would you present that as fact?
EDIT
If you can actually prove that a higher percentage of people are using the RMAH than D2JSP (et. al.) then I'll gladly say you're right. But simply assuming that because it's "sanctioned" that more people are automatically doing it doesn't really make that fact.
Nor does it change the fact that anyone who buys the best items off the RMAH is purposefully destroying their gaming experience.
It doesn't really work that way...
Yes, it's a choice to use the RMAH. But people are naturally drawn to the most efficient method of acquiring gear. The developers of D3 have created a game that encourages you to find the most efficient method of getting the gear you want. It's not a conspiracy, the game is obviously built this way.
You die to an elite pack 10 times, get frustrated. You could either use the RMAH and spend some money that would get you the gear you want instantly, or spend 10 hours farming that gear. Not to say that farming can't be fun, but if buying that gear off the RMAH is more personally rational for you, then it's a better decision. The point is that having that option be a legitimate path to the best gear will ruin it for a lot of people, even if they aren't using the RMAH. Because it doesn't make sense to spend countless hours farming gear that you could buy instantly for (relatively) way less work (assuming you have an OK job).
It's not really about how many people actually use third part sites vs the RMAH, it's the fact that it's incorporated into the game. Some people will dislike the game because of the RMAH without even using it. They'll quit before buying the gear in the first place.
Because it's a sanctioned part of the game, the potential for people to use it is much higher than D2 third party sites. I don't think you need evidence for that.
Why would someone use D2 third party sites but not the RMAH? It doesn't make sense. All the people who were willing to pay for gear in D2 will be willing to pay for gear in D3 plus more who were turned off by the illegitimacy of D2 third party sites.
Honestly though, we're not yet to the point where the RMAH is a real problem... I'm more forecasting what'll happen down the line. Though some people have experienced it already. If the price for items get really low, as in a lot lower than comparative minimum wage... (meaning that an item that would take you 8 hours to get costs only like $15) there will be no point in playing SC if you're not PvPing or gearing up to sell items on the RMAH as a form of income.
The RMAH hasn't really ruined the game yet because the items are mostly too expensive. But once the items start to get a lot cheaper, people are really going to question why they should spend hours farming gear they can spend small amounts of money for.
Before the game came out, I was worried that the RMAH will tempt me into buying gear (because spending a few dollars to acquire a piece of gear is much easier for me than farming it for hours) and that would've ruined my gaming experience.
But thankfully, the RMAH has had no influence on me. Too bad Force didn't realize the RMAH will ruin the experience for him though.
Because it's a sanctioned part of the game, the potential for people to use it is much higher than D2 third party sites. I don't think you need evidence for that.
Of course you do. Factual statements need to be backed up with actual proof, especially when the degree matters. In a black-and-white world you could very well be 100% correct. However, examining this in a black-and-white world takes a lot of the details and context out of the discussion.
Consider two hypotheticals, if you will, where we examine the average number of real money transactions per character:
Scenario 1
Diablo 2: 10
Diablo 3: 10.1
Scenario 2
Diablo 2: 10
Diablo 3: 15
In both scenarios your statement is, technically correct. However, in Scenario 1 we've seen a mere 1% increase in transactions per character, whereas in Scenario 2 we've seen a whopping 50% increase in transactions per character. The *degree* matters, so simply going on common sense and saying "more people are probably using it" may seem correct, and it is at a certain level. But the real data we need is "how much more?" because there's obviously a chasm between a 1% increase in real money purchases and a 50% increase. Yes/no questions only get us so much information on which to base decisions.
I don't think Force did that good of a job explaining why he quit. He himself said that it just sort of felt like it wasn't fun - this is not the first, nor last time this will happen with a game.
The RMAH had the same effect on him as it has millions of others - it sucks ass and cheapens the gear-grind experience. It's a necessary evil due to the obsessive nature of the game and the gear's compulsive effect on players, but that doesn't make it any less slimy. And obviously you don't have to use it. I don't and neither do many others, I'm sure. But even Force couldn't come up with a single reason why he quit, it's just...not fun. The game isn't D2, and since people are realizing they're not going to get that 2-3 year initial experience again, they're bailing.
i don't mean this in a negative way, but a lot of the complaints sound like people wanting their virginity back. no game for the rest of your life will ever satisfy you the way games did before. no matter how good the game is you're going to get bored quicker. you're going to burn out if you play them as much as you played years ago. when you hit your 30s and 40s it's going to get worse.
you're never going to get another d2 in the same way suzy won't be seeing her hymen return. it's gone. start playing d3 15-20 hours a week at most. maybe even less than that. let blizzard get some patches rolled out. pace yourself. don't spend thousands of hours on it like Force did.
Been playin for weeks and I see no reason why I won't play for years. Then again.....I'm not a no-life "pro" that spent every waking hour playing, buying and selling on 5 hours sleep a night (or day).
I come home from work, fire up a couple of smooth bowls and I have a god damn blast running inferno and hustling the GAH.
/end statement
Precisely the approach I have and probably why I still like the game and can't quite grasp the endemic problems a lot of the more enveloped players have run into. I'm closing in on a second lvl 60 character with my barb and having a great time doing it. When I invariably hit a gear blockade with him, i'll probably level another alt. If i'm going to be farming act1-2 inferno for a while, i'd like to have options when it comes to who I make runs with. That makes it a lot more interesting than living and dying on the balance of one class *cough* WD...
I've made $375 off Diablo 3 so far. Does that mean the game is fun? No, but it does mean I've made some cash from a video game!
In all seriousness, here are my sincere thoughts about the RMAH and it's implications on the game (taken directly from Penny Arcade):
So, as those who have mostly left the bulding already, Diablo 3’s Real Money Auction House is double mysterious and we don’t know what it’s for. Well, okay: we know know. The “moneys.” What I’m saying is that getting new shit actually is the game. For us, anyway. Getting and, crucially, equipping new loot. The whole AH thing short-circuits the entire idea: the game is, functionally speaking, a pinata. Right? Obviously, you could just go buy candy at the store. It’s not about having candy. It’s about getting candy.
Source (I still can't post urls...): penny-arcade.com/2012/06/27
This is the crux of the issue as I understand it and frankly I don't think it's anyone's fault but the people who bought in to their gear. As I said before, there was no question that Diablo 3 was going to be a strait forward dungeon crawler. They said there would be no pvp at launch. They said there would be no ladder at launch. Essentially, there was no good reason to use the RMAH except to ruin the game experience for one's self and in a hurry.
Apparently some people missed the memos or simply got egotistically excited by gearing up so much faster than anyone else. In either case, throwing lumps at Blizzard for trying to generate some money does no good. I look at the current AH situation as Darwinian in nature. Those true to the ARPG genre made sparing use of it or avoided it, and they're still by-in-large enjoying the game or hung up on issues that will be patched in the coming months. Those who ignored the spirit of the game made liberal use of it and essentially made the game revolve around instant acquisition. They burned out just as quickly as they acquired all their shiny stuff and due to the position they put themselves in, nothing can make them happy.
Consider for a moment exactly what blizzard could do about this problem in a rational manner:
1. Remove the RMAH - Not going to happen.
2. Set up more arbitrary restrictions on AH usage. - Will further anger those who use it a lot.
3. Amp up the difficulty of inferno so high that using the RMAH becomes integral to playing in that difficulty at all. - Not entirely impossible given how difficult inferno was slated to be and is to some extent in the later acts, but blizzard realizes that going this completely alienates the bulk of the population who would rather not use the RMAH or game the gold AH endlessly for ideal gear.
Any way you slice it, there are no winners. Blizzard can either disown the average player in favor of this spendy RMAH crowd who desperately need to be challenged even after they spend hundreds of dollars to ~win~ automatically; or they can continue to try and balance the game for everyone else leaving the junkies to make rage posts and video monologues about why they aren't returning to a game they paid to win without actually playing.
plenty of gamers pay for things in a variety of games and have for a very long time. some people are okay with it. some people aren't.
if buying things ruins a game for you then don't do it. if you already did then get rid of the items you bought. either resell them or give them to a friend and start fresh.
Oh, and the drops are NOT affected by the AH. This is just BS that has been spread around, only backed up by anecdotal evidence. This is OT, so I won't bother going on about it. But unless you can come up with hard evidence, then please stop gabbing on about that.
There was a quote by Bashiok that was later deleted by Blizzard. That quote said that drop rates are not affected by what's currently for sale on the AH, but they are affected by the mere existence of the AH (ie, drop rates were nerfed because the AH exists). A couple of weeks after the quote was deleted, Jay Wilson came out and said that the drop rates were calculated as if the player did not use the AH at all; I honestly find this hard to believe.
Yes, and was further explained in the AMAA. What they said in the AMAA was that they did NOT balance the drops towards the AH. They couldn't, they didn't have enough people in the internal testing to properly test the AH. They geared the game for gathering drops on your own, and, by and large, succeeded up until Inferno. Inferno balance is a WHOLE nother issue that I won't touch on, because Blizzard themselves admitted they didn't balance it before release.
What Bash's statement meant (or what he should have meant if he got confused) was that they CONSIDERED it as a means of getting gear, along with picking it up off monsters and trading. I'm not 100% sure what that meant, but they (forget if it was Jay or Wyatt) do state that the drops were balanced for solo progression.
Anyway, slice it however you want, but I feel no pity to those who complain about the game being "ruined" by the RMAH. When I saw it, I knew using it would lessen the game for me. Because, for me, it's as much about the journey for the gear as the gear itself (that's also why I didn't do the gobo or chest runs). However, there was clearly a demand for it, so I don't see anything wrong with including it (as the game isn't being made as a serious competitive game - selling upgrades for units in SC2 would just be wrong). As it turned out, you ruined the game for yourself. Would you complain if a game was too easy because you used cheats?
I paced myself, and still am. It took me around 90hr to get my wiz to 60. I did some grinding runs for a day or two, found it to be stupidly boring. I am now gaming the GAH, and having lots of fun, the joy of the sound of selling something! I still have 4 other characters to level.
I enjoy it like like a perfectly grilled medium-rare steak. I notice the grill marks and the browning, slicing off a piece to see the warm pink middle. I appreciate the intense flavors along with the juicy textures, the perfect seasoning. Then, I do it again. I'll spoon up some mash or vege in between (BF3).
I don't pick it up with my hands and eat it caveman style.
Now, if anyone else needs a stupid analogy, I'm pretty sure I can muster up another one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The Unchosen" Pain of Admirance Sigil (For those without -Feat of Strength-):
I paced myself, and still am. It took me around 90hr to get my wiz to 60. I did some grinding runs for a day or two, found it to be stupidly boring. I am now gaming the GAH, and having lots of fun, the joy of the sound of selling something! I still have 4 other characters to level.
I enjoy it like like a perfectly grilled medium-rare steak. I notice the grill marks and the browning, slicing off a piece to see the warm pink middle. I appreciate the intense flavors along with the juicy textures. Then, I do it again. I'll spoon up some mash or vege in between (BF3).
I don't pick it up with my hands and eat it caveman style.
Now, if anyone else needs a stupid analogy, I'm pretty sure I can muster up another one.
Well past few days i've yet to do a single farm run in D3, somehow every time i load game i'm getting a feeling there's not much to do. It may've to do with being bored of runing same build for extended amount of time, whille i'm lacking gold to effectivly switch build to something else. Also i'm not sure that changing build would cure the situation so spending cash on RMAH doesn't look like a good investment.
Tbh i reinstalled HoN and it was a breath of fresh air compared to grinding down elites in D3. Also most of my friends quited D3 so nothing really holds me back now. Atm D3 is just as good as most of single player titles for PS3, exept D3 provides you 1/4 content and offers you a choice to play through it 4 times. Was looking forward to D3 out of nostalgy for D2 times, but nowdays it just doesn't strike my fancy. Wish they had PvP ready by reliase, not comming up in the "distant future".
force was one of the original people doing video content for D3 before it was even in beta. (He was one of the biggest D3 youtubers) He actually did a show here on Diablofans (and is where he started out with his d3 "podcast"). He is also the only youtuber directly in the "official fansite program" for diablo 3
It doesn't really work that way...
Yes, it's a choice to use the RMAH. But people are naturally drawn to the most efficient method of acquiring gear. The developers of D3 have created a game that encourages you to find the most efficient method of getting the gear you want. It's not a conspiracy, the game is obviously built this way.
You die to an elite pack 10 times, get frustrated. You could either use the RMAH and spend some money that would get you the gear you want instantly, or spend 10 hours farming that gear. Not to say that farming can't be fun, but if buying that gear off the RMAH is more personally rational for you, then it's a better decision. The point is that having that option be a legitimate path to the best gear will ruin it for a lot of people, even if they aren't using the RMAH. Because it doesn't make sense to spend countless hours farming gear that you could buy instantly for (relatively) way less work (assuming you have an OK job).
It's not really about how many people actually use third part sites vs the RMAH, it's the fact that it's incorporated into the game. Some people will dislike the game because of the RMAH without even using it. They'll quit before buying the gear in the first place.
Because it's a sanctioned part of the game, the potential for people to use it is much higher than D2 third party sites. I don't think you need evidence for that.
Why would someone use D2 third party sites but not the RMAH? It doesn't make sense. All the people who were willing to pay for gear in D2 will be willing to pay for gear in D3 plus more who were turned off by the illegitimacy of D2 third party sites.
Honestly though, we're not yet to the point where the RMAH is a real problem... I'm more forecasting what'll happen down the line. Though some people have experienced it already. If the price for items get really low, as in a lot lower than comparative minimum wage... (meaning that an item that would take you 8 hours to get costs only like $15) there will be no point in playing SC if you're not PvPing or gearing up to sell items on the RMAH as a form of income.
The RMAH hasn't really ruined the game yet because the items are mostly too expensive. But once the items start to get a lot cheaper, people are really going to question why they should spend hours farming gear they can spend small amounts of money for.
But thankfully, the RMAH has had no influence on me. Too bad Force didn't realize the RMAH will ruin the experience for him though.
Of course you do. Factual statements need to be backed up with actual proof, especially when the degree matters. In a black-and-white world you could very well be 100% correct. However, examining this in a black-and-white world takes a lot of the details and context out of the discussion.
Consider two hypotheticals, if you will, where we examine the average number of real money transactions per character:
Scenario 1
Diablo 2: 10
Diablo 3: 10.1
Scenario 2
Diablo 2: 10
Diablo 3: 15
In both scenarios your statement is, technically correct. However, in Scenario 1 we've seen a mere 1% increase in transactions per character, whereas in Scenario 2 we've seen a whopping 50% increase in transactions per character. The *degree* matters, so simply going on common sense and saying "more people are probably using it" may seem correct, and it is at a certain level. But the real data we need is "how much more?" because there's obviously a chasm between a 1% increase in real money purchases and a 50% increase. Yes/no questions only get us so much information on which to base decisions.
Does that make sense?
The RMAH had the same effect on him as it has millions of others - it sucks ass and cheapens the gear-grind experience. It's a necessary evil due to the obsessive nature of the game and the gear's compulsive effect on players, but that doesn't make it any less slimy. And obviously you don't have to use it. I don't and neither do many others, I'm sure. But even Force couldn't come up with a single reason why he quit, it's just...not fun. The game isn't D2, and since people are realizing they're not going to get that 2-3 year initial experience again, they're bailing.
you're never going to get another d2 in the same way suzy won't be seeing her hymen return. it's gone. start playing d3 15-20 hours a week at most. maybe even less than that. let blizzard get some patches rolled out. pace yourself. don't spend thousands of hours on it like Force did.
Precisely the approach I have and probably why I still like the game and can't quite grasp the endemic problems a lot of the more enveloped players have run into. I'm closing in on a second lvl 60 character with my barb and having a great time doing it. When I invariably hit a gear blockade with him, i'll probably level another alt. If i'm going to be farming act1-2 inferno for a while, i'd like to have options when it comes to who I make runs with. That makes it a lot more interesting than living and dying on the balance of one class *cough* WD...
This is the crux of the issue as I understand it and frankly I don't think it's anyone's fault but the people who bought in to their gear. As I said before, there was no question that Diablo 3 was going to be a strait forward dungeon crawler. They said there would be no pvp at launch. They said there would be no ladder at launch. Essentially, there was no good reason to use the RMAH except to ruin the game experience for one's self and in a hurry.
Apparently some people missed the memos or simply got egotistically excited by gearing up so much faster than anyone else. In either case, throwing lumps at Blizzard for trying to generate some money does no good. I look at the current AH situation as Darwinian in nature. Those true to the ARPG genre made sparing use of it or avoided it, and they're still by-in-large enjoying the game or hung up on issues that will be patched in the coming months. Those who ignored the spirit of the game made liberal use of it and essentially made the game revolve around instant acquisition. They burned out just as quickly as they acquired all their shiny stuff and due to the position they put themselves in, nothing can make them happy.
Consider for a moment exactly what blizzard could do about this problem in a rational manner:
1. Remove the RMAH - Not going to happen.
2. Set up more arbitrary restrictions on AH usage. - Will further anger those who use it a lot.
3. Amp up the difficulty of inferno so high that using the RMAH becomes integral to playing in that difficulty at all. - Not entirely impossible given how difficult inferno was slated to be and is to some extent in the later acts, but blizzard realizes that going this completely alienates the bulk of the population who would rather not use the RMAH or game the gold AH endlessly for ideal gear.
Any way you slice it, there are no winners. Blizzard can either disown the average player in favor of this spendy RMAH crowd who desperately need to be challenged even after they spend hundreds of dollars to ~win~ automatically; or they can continue to try and balance the game for everyone else leaving the junkies to make rage posts and video monologues about why they aren't returning to a game they paid to win without actually playing.
I started out loving the idea of the RMAH, but as it turns out, I want nothing to do with a game where you can pay-to-win.
Oh well, at least I gave it a chance.
Hopefully Blizzard takes notes and doesn't include a RMAH in Titan.
Pay-to-win only applies to competitive games where you can pay for a competitive advantage. Which is irrelevant at least until PVP is implemented.
What D3 has right now is pay-to-ruin-the-fun-of-the-game. Which if you do... that's your fault, isn't it? Nobody is forcing you to use the AHs.
if buying things ruins a game for you then don't do it. if you already did then get rid of the items you bought. either resell them or give them to a friend and start fresh.
Yes, and was further explained in the AMAA. What they said in the AMAA was that they did NOT balance the drops towards the AH. They couldn't, they didn't have enough people in the internal testing to properly test the AH. They geared the game for gathering drops on your own, and, by and large, succeeded up until Inferno. Inferno balance is a WHOLE nother issue that I won't touch on, because Blizzard themselves admitted they didn't balance it before release.
What Bash's statement meant (or what he should have meant if he got confused) was that they CONSIDERED it as a means of getting gear, along with picking it up off monsters and trading. I'm not 100% sure what that meant, but they (forget if it was Jay or Wyatt) do state that the drops were balanced for solo progression.
Anyway, slice it however you want, but I feel no pity to those who complain about the game being "ruined" by the RMAH. When I saw it, I knew using it would lessen the game for me. Because, for me, it's as much about the journey for the gear as the gear itself (that's also why I didn't do the gobo or chest runs). However, there was clearly a demand for it, so I don't see anything wrong with including it (as the game isn't being made as a serious competitive game - selling upgrades for units in SC2 would just be wrong). As it turned out, you ruined the game for yourself. Would you complain if a game was too easy because you used cheats?
Its fun for me when some coll items drop for my character (i got 2 this week :D)
I enjoy it like like a perfectly grilled medium-rare steak. I notice the grill marks and the browning, slicing off a piece to see the warm pink middle. I appreciate the intense flavors along with the juicy textures, the perfect seasoning. Then, I do it again. I'll spoon up some mash or vege in between (BF3).
I don't pick it up with my hands and eat it caveman style.
Now, if anyone else needs a stupid analogy, I'm pretty sure I can muster up another one.
http://i.imgur.com/O7Oeo.png
I received TWO beta keys. Eat it and like it.
For the love of god, more analogies!
Don't need you to tell me either lol. If people don't wanna play that's fine. Why care?
I did enjoy his D3 videos.
Tbh i reinstalled HoN and it was a breath of fresh air compared to grinding down elites in D3. Also most of my friends quited D3 so nothing really holds me back now. Atm D3 is just as good as most of single player titles for PS3, exept D3 provides you 1/4 content and offers you a choice to play through it 4 times. Was looking forward to D3 out of nostalgy for D2 times, but nowdays it just doesn't strike my fancy. Wish they had PvP ready by reliase, not comming up in the "distant future".