I think their system is perfect. If bosses drop better loot than normal mobs, and rares spawn randomly and drop better loot than bosses, you may as well pick an area a ways before a boss and search for rares all the way up to the boss, then kill the boss since it's a guaranteed chance at better drops (just not quite as good as the rares you were looking for on the way).
What I like about this idea is that you can go play around in an area that you like specifically, or through any area that you are really in the mood for at that given time. Then there will be a chance to encounter uniques and champions.
What I don't get it, people are complaining as if they removed boss runs. You can still do it, just because the drops aren't epic anymore doesn't mean you can't still enjoy it. So what if that added incentive isn't there anymore. Just go kill them again, especially if you go back with better loot, an experience a boss battle you used to struggle with with better gear and runes. That would still be fun. Plus they may still drop a good item for you to use, just because they don't drop the best doesn't mean they will only drop crap. They will still drop better than normal mob loot, way better, actually.
Maybe after the first expansion they will add special extra hard dungeons to Inferno, or difficult random encounters. Could be fun.
I'm not sure that it will necessarily be a "one or the other" circumstance. For example...
Champions may have 1.3% chance to drop Messerschmidt's Hammer
Bosses may have 1.5% chance to drop Messerschmidt's Hammer
Which would you do?
Well, I'd play through the entire zone PLUS the boss... because that .2% isn't important enough for me to only do boss runs. At the same time, it doesn't make much sense to skip that boss and only do "champion runs."
I think that they are promoting the story and plot, by showing players that we can play through the game on the hardest mode with friends and still enjoy ourselves by finding loot as we go instead of going into immediate "boss kill mode zomg"
Krag... as it is right now, bosses don't drop any better loot than your regular every day mob except the first time. Which means boss runs are useless. In fact, they're wasteful in the current model meaning NOBODY will want to do them.
It's a good thing. Repeatedly running bosses is predictable and boring; being able to efficiently farm everywhere will keep the game fresh.
It runs counter to RPG conventions, but makes Diablo 3 a better game.
-Kardax
This exactly.
I mean hell, who ran only ran bosses after the aLVL changes? It was all about Pit, Tunnels, Maus, Trav, and CS, only stopping at bosses that were in the area or if you're bored. Andy and Meph were sometimes worth it, but the only boss that really made sense was Diablo, sense he was RIGHT there Champions we're always something you were looking for, and I'm glad they're solidifying this principal.
Also, don't forget we don't have Enigma any more. Boss (only) runs really won't be possible any more.
I'm going based off of everything we've seen. Nowhere have they said that bosses drop good loot. In fact, they've explicitly said they're trying to discourage boss runs, which makes it quite likely that some system similar to what we have now(where bosses don't drop good items, but the quest for killing them rewards something cool) will hit live. Which is really sad, since it COMPLETELY removes the OPTION of boss runs for those people out there who enjoy them. I'd like to have it be worthwhile to kill the boss after you clear the area - but with the information we have now it seems like it won't be worth it. It sounds like the best thing to do will be to clear up to the room RIGHT before the boss, quit, create a new game, and redo - since the bosses will likely be difficult, take a while, and not drop good loot.
FYI the information we have now:
1) RAres/champs drop best loot.
2) They're trying to discourage boss runs.
3) Beta shows bosses have very low drop rate except on first kill.
That's all we know, and that REALLY strongly points to bosses being a complete waste of time after the first kill. Tell me how else to interpret what we know?
While I think it's a good game mechanic, and a good solution to repetitive boss runs, I feel the tracking and slaying of these regular looking rare creatures is much less fun than the slaying huge epic bosses.
The one thing I would like to see changed, would be instead of inserting standard rare creatures around inferno, replace those rare creature with large, epic, unique-to-Inferno creatures that are much more fun to slay. Because frankly, I don't care if their stats are the same as the smaller creatures, I'd rather fight a huge monster than a tiny fallen even if they have the exact same stats.
They keep pushing the concept of "feeling powerful and awesome", and to be honest I wouldn't feel either tracking and slaying regular looking monsters for endless hours. Now replace those regular modeled monsters with new, huge creatures, and I'm golden.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
I think they're on to a great idea - I fired up D2 a couple weeks ago and I'm already sick of teleporting in to Meph (damn Stygian Dolls *!^#$(* ) and such. Its so MUCH more enjoyable to clear areas but its also nice to get rewarded for doing so - D2 doesnt do that well - D3 hopefully will.
It probably has the side benefit of making bot runs a bit less easily acomplished - not that I'm not sure people will find a way.
I hope this method works as well as they say it does. If they can make it where items drop, as based on something involving danger, time involved and attention you have to pay, within 10% or so of each other, that's fine by me. If they make any place hugely better or worse, that's a problem, but if it's close, I'll go where it's the most fun, which is what their goal is anyways right?
I have yet to see anything suggesting like you claim that it won't be worth killing a boss. We have not seen Inferno (or anything even resembling challenging content). We have no idea how hard champions will be to kill compared to bosses. We have no idea how much difference there is in drop chances. All we know is that Blizzard do not want Inferno play to end up being just running straight to a boss over and over and over. That is what we know for a fact.
So Inferno will end up being just running the highest level dungeon and quitting the game as soon as you reach the end boss room. How is that any better ?
Actually thats how beta works right now. People do leoric's dungeon over and over but as soon as they reach the last level (royal cripts) they leave the game. Thats a lot worst then what we had in D2. also they suppose to add A LOT of focus to boss fights. Now, whats the point of epic scrpted fights if you they are counterproductive ?
Someone can say: wow but in Inferno all dungeon will have the same level! So theres no "highest level dungeon". Then theres no "highest level" bosses either. Instead of running the same boss over and over you can run like 10~12 bosses (and their dungeon) wich is a good number.
10~12 bosses and their dungeons > the entire game without any boss.
But i'm pretty cool because i'm 100% sure they will change that sooner or later.
I have yet to see anything suggesting like you claim that it won't be worth killing a boss. We have not seen Inferno (or anything even resembling challenging content). We have no idea how hard champions will be to kill compared to bosses. We have no idea how much difference there is in drop chances. All we know is that Blizzard do not want Inferno play to end up being just running straight to a boss over and over and over. That is what we know for a fact.
So Inferno will end up being just running the highest level dungeon and quitting the game as soon as you reach the end boss room. How is that any better ?
Actually thats how beta works right now. People do leoric's dungeon over and over but as soon as they reach the last level (royal cripts) they leave the game. Thats a lot worst then what we had in D2. also they suppose to add A LOT of focus to boss fights. Now, whats the point of epic scrpted fights if you they are counterproductive ?
Someone can say: wow but in Inferno all dungeon will have the same level! So theres no "highest level dungeon". Then theres no "highest level" bosses either. Instead of running the same boss over and over you can run like 10~12 bosses (and their dungeon) wich is a good number.
10~12 bosses and their dungeons > the entire game without any boss.
But i'm pretty cool because i'm 100% sure they will change that sooner or later.
I think you're kinda missing the big picture.
Bosses will still have a higher chance to drop good loot than any normal monster. But champions are going to have that higher chance in addition to bosses. (perhaps slightly higher, see my first post at the top of this page)
This promotes playing the entire act and exploring regions; playing out the act in its entirety and thus experiencing all of the content/plot again WHILE you find good items. Since bosses still have a higher chance to drop items, you would not just "quit the game once we reach the end boss room."
Also I think that we all need to take any beta/Leoric drop data with a grain of salt. I see people screaming "ARGH HE DOESN'T DROP ANYTHING AFTER FIRST KILL BOSSES ARE SO WORTHLESS." Don't forget that this is beta which is tuned for... beta. Not to mention that it's normal, up to level 13, with limited MF gear available. Sure, it could be indicative of the final product, but at this point it could go either way. Any drop percentages are pure speculation.
I voted that it is a good idea. However, I see no reason why bosses can't have the same drop chance (not higher mind you) as rares/champions. Would seem silly to make their drop chance LOWER considering the time investment needed to kill them, let alone reach them, when compared to rares/champions.
I have yet to see anything suggesting like you claim that it won't be worth killing a boss. We have not seen Inferno (or anything even resembling challenging content). We have no idea how hard champions will be to kill compared to bosses. We have no idea how much difference there is in drop chances. All we know is that Blizzard do not want Inferno play to end up being just running straight to a boss over and over and over. That is what we know for a fact.
So Inferno will end up being just running the highest level dungeon and quitting the game as soon as you reach the end boss room. How is that any better ?
Actually thats how beta works right now. People do leoric's dungeon over and over but as soon as they reach the last level (royal cripts) they leave the game. Thats a lot worst then what we had in D2. also they suppose to add A LOT of focus to boss fights. Now, whats the point of epic scrpted fights if you they are counterproductive ?
Someone can say: wow but in Inferno all dungeon will have the same level! So theres no "highest level dungeon". Then theres no "highest level" bosses either. Instead of running the same boss over and over you can run like 10~12 bosses (and their dungeon) wich is a good number.
10~12 bosses and their dungeons > the entire game without any boss.
But i'm pretty cool because i'm 100% sure they will change that sooner or later.
I think you're kinda missing the big picture.
Bosses will still have a higher chance to drop good loot than any normal monster. But champions are going to have that higher chance in addition to bosses. (perhaps slightly higher, see my first post at the top of this page)
This promotes playing the entire act and exploring regions; playing out the act in its entirety and thus experiencing all of the content/plot again WHILE you find good items. Since bosses still have a higher chance to drop items, you would not just "quit the game once we reach the end boss room."
Thats really not true.
Rare monster having the best drop is no incentive to play the whole act. People will just farm the places were the appear more oftenly. If no such place exist, people will just farm the easiest place and restart the game as asoon as this place is completly runned.
And with this change, people will surely ignore the bosses. They are (should be) much, much harder then a champion. I"m pretty sure people will not farm someone hard that gives small rewards.
Look at D2 Baal. Noone kills him except for loot. While the interest is just leveling, people only kill the hand of destruction, leaving the game before the boss is dead.
I voted that it is a good idea. However, I see no reason why bosses can't have the same drop chance (not higher mind you) as rares/champions. Would seem silly to make their drop chance LOWER considering the time investment needed to kill them, let alone reach them, when compared to rares/champions.
I think the drops should be a little higher, since they are significantly harder to kill, harder to reach and cooler to fight against. Not higher enough so people skip the content of the game and rush the boss. But surely not something that makes killing then counterproductive.
Thats really not true.
Rare monster having the best drop is no incentive to play the whole act. People will just farm the places were the appear more oftenly. If no such place exist, people will just farm the easiest place and restart the game as asoon as this place is completly runned.
This is true and hopefully Bliz has done something on their end to combat this. For example, Act 4 champions have a slightly higher drop chance, but are x amount harder, while Act 1 champions have a slightly lower drop chance, but are x amount easier. Or perhaps Act 4 champions will have higher loot tables than those of Act 1. All things that I'm sure they have taken into consideration over the 10 years in the making
And with this change, people will surely ignore the bosses. They are (should be) much, much harder then a champion. I"m pretty sure people will not farm someone hard that gives small rewards.
Look at D2 Baal. Noone kills him except for loot. While the interest is just leveling, people only kill the hand of destruction, leaving the game before the boss is dead.
This thread is about loot in inferno mode, not about leveling; but I see the connection you're trying to make. If a boss has a comparable, or even slightly lower drop chance than said champions, a person would still clear the boss. Yes it will be harder, but there is still the reward, and if you are geared for the encounter, it's one more chance at getting phat loots. They haven't said that boss runs will be worthless, just that they won't be the MAIN focus. It changes the focus from "omg have to teleport to boss to kill it in order to get loot" to "just cleared the entire path to the boss and found some awesome gear! Now it's time to see what the boss drops!"
I voted that it is a good idea. However, I see no reason why bosses can't have the same drop chance (not higher mind you) as rares/champions. Would seem silly to make their drop chance LOWER considering the time investment needed to kill them, let alone reach them, when compared to rares/champions.
I think the drops should be a little higher, since they are significantly harder to kill, harder to reach and cooler to fight against. Not higher enough so people skip the content of the game and rush the boss. But surely not something that makes killing then counterproductive.
They didn't say how much lower bosses will be. They said they want to get away from strictly boss runs, not that bosses wouldn't drop loot at all. Like I mentioned in an earlier post. This value could be tenths of a percentage lower for all we know.
Thats really not true.
Rare monster having the best drop is no incentive to play the whole act. People will just farm the places were the appear more oftenly. If no such place exist, people will just farm the easiest place and restart the game as asoon as this place is completly runned.
And with this change, people will surely ignore the bosses. They are (should be) much, much harder then a champion. I"m pretty sure people will not farm someone hard that gives small rewards.
Look at D2 Baal. Noone kills him except for loot. While the interest is just leveling, people only kill the hand of destruction, leaving the game before the boss is dead.
But you do not have to play that way. In D2 there was only one way to play, that was it.
With the new system, you could try to find areas that easier or that you think spawn rares/uniques more often, or you can run full acts, or just run the last part of an act, etc...There are lots of options via this change, and even if some are slightly more rewarding that others, it wont be by some huge margin like in D2.
This also has a dramatic impact on the new players to the diablo franchise. A new player to D2 did not have a clue what to do, or where to go to farm loot. No one gave him/her the memo about MF'ing bosses being the the only method to get good loot. Many, myself included, had to learn this the hard way. In D3, the new players can essentially farm anywhere they like, and its not insanely detrimental to their gaming experience.
Personally, I think doing the last part of the act and killing the boss would be the best choice for getting gear. The fact that his drop chances are slightly lower means nothing when you consider you already know his location.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
If a boss is even EQUAL to a champion in terms of loot drops, it will be a waste of time to kill a boss. Bosses will take DRAMATICALLY longer than champions and rares and with much greater risk. So unless bosses receive a higher droprate, it WILL be both inefficient and wasteful to kill bosses. It's just a mathematical fact. If it takes longer, with more risk and only awards the same chance... then it's better to just skip them.
They need to make them proportional if they want them to be worth it.
If you REALLY think that champions are going to be as hard as bosses, I think you're living in a dream world. Imagine you wade through the legions of hell approaching Diablo(or whoever the end boss ends up being), you're fighting champions and rares who give you a challenge but ultimately fall to you. Then you get to Diablo.... and he's literally no harder or longer or more scripted of a fight than a lowly champion pack. How disappointed would you be?
No what I'm saying is that if you combine the droprates of the regular monsters and the champions you'll kill in the time it takes to kill a boss it will give you a noticeably better chance at loot. IF the boss has an equal or lower droprate to a mere champion. Also giving a boss an equal droprate is REALLY anti-climactic. The bosses are SUPPOSED to be epic. Now obviously I'm all for them encouraging gameplay elsewhere, but to make bosses feel unrewarding is a bad idea. And no I'm not saying bosses WILL feel unrewarding in the final game, but the current communique we have indicates that they'll be no more impressive than a champion. Which is a really sad state of affairs in my eyes. They should at the very least be proportionally better based off of the increased challenge and time expected in killing them.
Champions are, I can absolutely promise you, going to be VERY frequent in inferno. Why? Because Blizzard has said that they've toned everything down for the segment of the game we have in the beta, including the difficulty and frequency of harder monsters, because it is intended as a tutorial. Even in the beta we see champions and rares constantly. If you clear the beta in an hour, you'll probably run accross 15-20 sets of champions. That puts us at one every 3-4 minutes, and that's in the toned down portion of the game. Who knows how frequent they'll be in inferno, but I can guarantee you they won't be LESS common.
Good conversation! I wanted to pipe in with a few thoughts
So I’ve seen a few people claim how they want Bosses to be viable drop sources (given either even or slightly better drop chances, but not worse). I *was* of the same mindset as I thought bosses should be viable to farm if people want, but they should be comparable sources to Rares/Champions, NOT superior (otherwise we’d only get boss runs). However Blizzard recently explained why they want to deter people from farming bosses and their explanation makes a lot of sense that I was convinced. So one thing you have to understand is that Rare spawns are Random. They have random properties and random abilities so if you plan on farming them you have to have a character flexible enough to deal with all types of random champions. Bosses are not random, bosses are very static and very specific. It would be a lot easier to make a character tailor suited to take down a specific boss repeatedly. You wouldn’t have to have a flexible character and because of this it would be *better* to just farm bosses as the kill consistency would be higher. This is the primary reason Blizzard is trying to deter boss runs as part of the loot grinding game. Knowing this I agree with giving bosses a smaller chance than Champions. This means if you really want to farm bosses for loot you can, but because it can be done a lot easier than random champions, you get less for it.
Just imagine if the best loot came from bosses like the ancients or the council (Act 3). Doing hell ancients repeatedly would be torture (And a sure fire way to get a lot of HC characters killed). I’m hoping Rare Champs come in groups in Inferno
If D2 loot finding worked like D3 where would be some ideal places to MF? I’m looking at the forgotten Tower with the Countess at the end to boot! That place is CHALK full of rare champs!
And lastly according to the Beta yes, first Boss kills provide increased drop chances (Currently the only real way to get rare items consistently is killing the Leoric on a new character). I personally like this as it is a small reward for questing through the game the first time and you can’t really farm items this way. The except is if it’s easy enough to power level and if drop rates are THAT much higher D3 runs the risk of turning D2 Forge runs into D3 Inferno boss runs (power leveling a level 60 just for the first kill loot in inferno). I seriously doubt the drop rates and time to power level would make that viable, but you never know.
Phenominon I'm not saying the MOST efficient way should be rushing to the boss. But a boss should provide an proportional droprate contingent upon it's kill time. So if boss a takes an average of 45 seconds to kill while an average champion takes 25 then the boss should have a nearly double chance to drop since it takes nearly twice as long to kill him. If boss b however takes an average of 4 minutes to kill, then his droprate should be nearly 8 times that of the champion - again, just to make it worth the time to kill him.
It just feels like the current model is going to make the boss highly anticlimactic. A sort of either nuisance, or something you just forget about and take a waypoint to a new area when you near a boss. And I really hope that isn't the case. I would love to see a situation where boss runs(meaning a game where a person starts at the start of a subzone that contains a boss and clears every floor between the waypoint and the boss) should be roughly equivalent to random-quest hunting which should be roughly equivalent to farming champions. And the current system really feels like it's going to have options b and c be viable, but not option a.
Makes perfect sense to me.
What I don't get it, people are complaining as if they removed boss runs. You can still do it, just because the drops aren't epic anymore doesn't mean you can't still enjoy it. So what if that added incentive isn't there anymore. Just go kill them again, especially if you go back with better loot, an experience a boss battle you used to struggle with with better gear and runes. That would still be fun. Plus they may still drop a good item for you to use, just because they don't drop the best doesn't mean they will only drop crap. They will still drop better than normal mob loot, way better, actually.
Maybe after the first expansion they will add special extra hard dungeons to Inferno, or difficult random encounters. Could be fun.
Champions may have 1.3% chance to drop Messerschmidt's Hammer
Bosses may have 1.5% chance to drop Messerschmidt's Hammer
Which would you do?
Well, I'd play through the entire zone PLUS the boss... because that .2% isn't important enough for me to only do boss runs. At the same time, it doesn't make much sense to skip that boss and only do "champion runs."
I think that they are promoting the story and plot, by showing players that we can play through the game on the hardest mode with friends and still enjoy ourselves by finding loot as we go instead of going into immediate "boss kill mode zomg"
Thoughts?
This exactly.
I mean hell, who ran only ran bosses after the aLVL changes? It was all about Pit, Tunnels, Maus, Trav, and CS, only stopping at bosses that were in the area or if you're bored. Andy and Meph were sometimes worth it, but the only boss that really made sense was Diablo, sense he was RIGHT there Champions we're always something you were looking for, and I'm glad they're solidifying this principal.
Also, don't forget we don't have Enigma any more. Boss (only) runs really won't be possible any more.
FYI the information we have now:
1) RAres/champs drop best loot.
2) They're trying to discourage boss runs.
3) Beta shows bosses have very low drop rate except on first kill.
That's all we know, and that REALLY strongly points to bosses being a complete waste of time after the first kill. Tell me how else to interpret what we know?
The one thing I would like to see changed, would be instead of inserting standard rare creatures around inferno, replace those rare creature with large, epic, unique-to-Inferno creatures that are much more fun to slay. Because frankly, I don't care if their stats are the same as the smaller creatures, I'd rather fight a huge monster than a tiny fallen even if they have the exact same stats.
They keep pushing the concept of "feeling powerful and awesome", and to be honest I wouldn't feel either tracking and slaying regular looking monsters for endless hours. Now replace those regular modeled monsters with new, huge creatures, and I'm golden.
It probably has the side benefit of making bot runs a bit less easily acomplished - not that I'm not sure people will find a way.
So Inferno will end up being just running the highest level dungeon and quitting the game as soon as you reach the end boss room. How is that any better ?
Actually thats how beta works right now. People do leoric's dungeon over and over but as soon as they reach the last level (royal cripts) they leave the game. Thats a lot worst then what we had in D2. also they suppose to add A LOT of focus to boss fights. Now, whats the point of epic scrpted fights if you they are counterproductive ?
Someone can say: wow but in Inferno all dungeon will have the same level! So theres no "highest level dungeon". Then theres no "highest level" bosses either. Instead of running the same boss over and over you can run like 10~12 bosses (and their dungeon) wich is a good number.
10~12 bosses and their dungeons > the entire game without any boss.
But i'm pretty cool because i'm 100% sure they will change that sooner or later.
I think you're kinda missing the big picture.
Bosses will still have a higher chance to drop good loot than any normal monster. But champions are going to have that higher chance in addition to bosses. (perhaps slightly higher, see my first post at the top of this page)
This promotes playing the entire act and exploring regions; playing out the act in its entirety and thus experiencing all of the content/plot again WHILE you find good items. Since bosses still have a higher chance to drop items, you would not just "quit the game once we reach the end boss room."
Also I think that we all need to take any beta/Leoric drop data with a grain of salt. I see people screaming "ARGH HE DOESN'T DROP ANYTHING AFTER FIRST KILL BOSSES ARE SO WORTHLESS." Don't forget that this is beta which is tuned for... beta. Not to mention that it's normal, up to level 13, with limited MF gear available. Sure, it could be indicative of the final product, but at this point it could go either way. Any drop percentages are pure speculation.
Thats really not true.
Rare monster having the best drop is no incentive to play the whole act. People will just farm the places were the appear more oftenly. If no such place exist, people will just farm the easiest place and restart the game as asoon as this place is completly runned.
And with this change, people will surely ignore the bosses. They are (should be) much, much harder then a champion. I"m pretty sure people will not farm someone hard that gives small rewards.
Look at D2 Baal. Noone kills him except for loot. While the interest is just leveling, people only kill the hand of destruction, leaving the game before the boss is dead.
I think the drops should be a little higher, since they are significantly harder to kill, harder to reach and cooler to fight against. Not higher enough so people skip the content of the game and rush the boss. But surely not something that makes killing then counterproductive.
This thread is about loot in inferno mode, not about leveling; but I see the connection you're trying to make. If a boss has a comparable, or even slightly lower drop chance than said champions, a person would still clear the boss. Yes it will be harder, but there is still the reward, and if you are geared for the encounter, it's one more chance at getting phat loots. They haven't said that boss runs will be worthless, just that they won't be the MAIN focus. It changes the focus from "omg have to teleport to boss to kill it in order to get loot" to "just cleared the entire path to the boss and found some awesome gear! Now it's time to see what the boss drops!"
They didn't say how much lower bosses will be. They said they want to get away from strictly boss runs, not that bosses wouldn't drop loot at all. Like I mentioned in an earlier post. This value could be tenths of a percentage lower for all we know.
But you do not have to play that way. In D2 there was only one way to play, that was it.
With the new system, you could try to find areas that easier or that you think spawn rares/uniques more often, or you can run full acts, or just run the last part of an act, etc...There are lots of options via this change, and even if some are slightly more rewarding that others, it wont be by some huge margin like in D2.
This also has a dramatic impact on the new players to the diablo franchise. A new player to D2 did not have a clue what to do, or where to go to farm loot. No one gave him/her the memo about MF'ing bosses being the the only method to get good loot. Many, myself included, had to learn this the hard way. In D3, the new players can essentially farm anywhere they like, and its not insanely detrimental to their gaming experience.
Personally, I think doing the last part of the act and killing the boss would be the best choice for getting gear. The fact that his drop chances are slightly lower means nothing when you consider you already know his location.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
They need to make them proportional if they want them to be worth it.
Champions are, I can absolutely promise you, going to be VERY frequent in inferno. Why? Because Blizzard has said that they've toned everything down for the segment of the game we have in the beta, including the difficulty and frequency of harder monsters, because it is intended as a tutorial. Even in the beta we see champions and rares constantly. If you clear the beta in an hour, you'll probably run accross 15-20 sets of champions. That puts us at one every 3-4 minutes, and that's in the toned down portion of the game. Who knows how frequent they'll be in inferno, but I can guarantee you they won't be LESS common.
So I’ve seen a few people claim how they want Bosses to be viable drop sources (given either even or slightly better drop chances, but not worse). I *was* of the same mindset as I thought bosses should be viable to farm if people want, but they should be comparable sources to Rares/Champions, NOT superior (otherwise we’d only get boss runs). However Blizzard recently explained why they want to deter people from farming bosses and their explanation makes a lot of sense that I was convinced. So one thing you have to understand is that Rare spawns are Random. They have random properties and random abilities so if you plan on farming them you have to have a character flexible enough to deal with all types of random champions. Bosses are not random, bosses are very static and very specific. It would be a lot easier to make a character tailor suited to take down a specific boss repeatedly. You wouldn’t have to have a flexible character and because of this it would be *better* to just farm bosses as the kill consistency would be higher. This is the primary reason Blizzard is trying to deter boss runs as part of the loot grinding game. Knowing this I agree with giving bosses a smaller chance than Champions. This means if you really want to farm bosses for loot you can, but because it can be done a lot easier than random champions, you get less for it.
Just imagine if the best loot came from bosses like the ancients or the council (Act 3). Doing hell ancients repeatedly would be torture (And a sure fire way to get a lot of HC characters killed). I’m hoping Rare Champs come in groups in Inferno
If D2 loot finding worked like D3 where would be some ideal places to MF? I’m looking at the forgotten Tower with the Countess at the end to boot! That place is CHALK full of rare champs!
And lastly according to the Beta yes, first Boss kills provide increased drop chances (Currently the only real way to get rare items consistently is killing the Leoric on a new character). I personally like this as it is a small reward for questing through the game the first time and you can’t really farm items this way. The except is if it’s easy enough to power level and if drop rates are THAT much higher D3 runs the risk of turning D2 Forge runs into D3 Inferno boss runs (power leveling a level 60 just for the first kill loot in inferno). I seriously doubt the drop rates and time to power level would make that viable, but you never know.
It just feels like the current model is going to make the boss highly anticlimactic. A sort of either nuisance, or something you just forget about and take a waypoint to a new area when you near a boss. And I really hope that isn't the case. I would love to see a situation where boss runs(meaning a game where a person starts at the start of a subzone that contains a boss and clears every floor between the waypoint and the boss) should be roughly equivalent to random-quest hunting which should be roughly equivalent to farming champions. And the current system really feels like it's going to have options b and c be viable, but not option a.