Operating a lottery or sweepstakes without a license is illegal.
Qualifying better chances with any form of payment makes it gambling.
Not really.
Existing premium members didn't pay to be entered into the draw, they paid for access to the premium section of the site. The same goes for you. If you're buying a premium membership just so you have a chance to be in the beta, that's cool, but you're not just getting entered into a draw, you're being given a 3 month premium service to their site. Whether or not you'd actually use it, doesn't matter. They're selling you a premium membership, but they're holding a draw for premium members to get a beta key. If the Beta drawing was the only thing being offered for 10 bucks, you'd have a point.
Shady/cheap for publicly advertising the premium membership draw, rather than keeping the announcement within a members only area? Sure. But definitely not illegal. They're covered.
Using that logic, one could argue that Blizzard is doing the exact same thing by only allowing people with active Blizzard accounts (ie: paid money) to be entered into the opt in. It's essentially the very same thing. You buy a subscription/account, you're entered to win. Same logic, difference source. While I understand that Blizzard is the source of the keys, the principle of what constitutes "gambling/lottery/sweepstakes licenses" is the same, and Blizzard would need to adhere to the law.
Operating a lottery or sweepstakes without a license is illegal.
Qualifying better chances with any form of payment makes it gambling.
Not really.
Existing premium members didn't pay to be entered into the draw, they paid for access to the premium section of the site. The same goes for you. If you're buying a premium membership just so you have a chance to be in the beta, that's cool, but you're not just getting entered into a draw, you're being given a 3 month premium service to their site. Whether or not you'd actually use it, doesn't matter. They're selling you a premium membership, but they're holding a draw for premium members to get a beta key. If the Beta drawing was the only thing being offered for 10 bucks, you'd have a point.
Shady/cheap for advertising the premium membership in order to generate subscriptions, rather than keeping the announcement within a members only area? Sure. But definitely not illegal. They're covered.
A someone who actually worked in the gaming industry in the US, I can assure you that you're completely wrong.
A better example would be when mcdonalds has the monopoly game, you can get entries for free by mail if you ask, but purchasing more things increases your odds. They have to register with the gaming commission on their state and operate with a sweepstakes license. This keeps them from scamming people by making them report any and all winners to the commission so there's a record of someone actually winning the prize instead of them just making up a sweepstakes and collecting money and never paying out to anyone.
Any purchase that can increase your chances falls under a lottery or sweepstakes depending on the jurisdiction.
Operating a lottery or sweepstakes without a license is illegal.
Qualifying better chances with any form of payment makes it gambling.
Not really.
Existing premium members didn't pay to be entered into the draw, they paid for access to the premium section of the site. The same goes for you. If you're buying a premium membership just so you have a chance to be in the beta, that's cool, but you're not just getting entered into a draw, you're being given a 3 month premium service to their site. Whether or not you'd actually use it, doesn't matter. They're selling you a premium membership, but they're holding a draw for premium members to get a beta key. If the Beta drawing was the only thing being offered for 10 bucks, you'd have a point.
Shady/cheap for advertising the premium membership in order to generate subscriptions, rather than keeping the announcement within a members only area? Sure. But definitely not illegal. They're covered.
A someone who actually worked in the gaming industry in the US, I can assure you that you're completely wrong.
A better example would be when mcdonalds has the monopoly game, you can get entries for free by mail if you ask, but purchasing more things increases your odds. They have to register with the gaming commission on their state and operate with a sweepstakes license. This keeps them from scamming people by making them report any and all winners to the commission so there's a record of someone actually winning the prize instead of them just making up a sweepstakes and collecting money and never paying out to anyone.
Any purchase that can increase your chances falls under a lottery or sweepstakes depending on the jurisdiction.
You make a comment on "depending on jurisdiction" and link a Texas site. Are you certain the same law applies to California? Also, possibly a more important question... are you sure that it applies to something like a beta key, that has no actual monetary value?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's quite the same thing as the McDonalds example because there's real money at stake, not a worthless beta key (by worthless I mean, has no real world value)
Operating a lottery or sweepstakes without a license is illegal.
Qualifying better chances with any form of payment makes it gambling.
Not really.
Existing premium members didn't pay to be entered into the draw, they paid for access to the premium section of the site. The same goes for you. If you're buying a premium membership just so you have a chance to be in the beta, that's cool, but you're not just getting entered into a draw, you're being given a 3 month premium service to their site. Whether or not you'd actually use it, doesn't matter. They're selling you a premium membership, but they're holding a draw for premium members to get a beta key. If the Beta drawing was the only thing being offered for 10 bucks, you'd have a point.
Shady/cheap for advertising the premium membership in order to generate subscriptions, rather than keeping the announcement within a members only area? Sure. But definitely not illegal. They're covered.
A someone who actually worked in the gaming industry in the US, I can assure you that you're completely wrong.
A better example would be when mcdonalds has the monopoly game, you can get entries for free by mail if you ask, but purchasing more things increases your odds. They have to register with the gaming commission on their state and operate with a sweepstakes license. This keeps them from scamming people by making them report any and all winners to the commission so there's a record of someone actually winning the prize instead of them just making up a sweepstakes and collecting money and never paying out to anyone.
Any purchase that can increase your chances falls under a lottery or sweepstakes depending on the jurisdiction.
You make a comment on "depending on jurisdiction" and link a Texas site. Are you certain the same law applies to California? Also, possibly a more important question... are you sure that it applies to something like a beta key, that has no actual monetary value?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's quite the same thing as the McDonalds example because there's real money at stake, not a worthless beta key (by worthless I mean, has no real world value)
If you pay to increase your odds of winning, no matter what the circumstances, it's gambling. This is clearly defined in the US. The only question is whether it's a sweepstakes or lottery, this appears to be a lottery with the "pay to get better odds" qualifier. Paying money for non-cash prizes is taken very seriously.
I linked to Texas because that's where they list their place of operation.
Operating a lottery or sweepstakes without a license is illegal.
Qualifying better chances with any form of payment makes it gambling.
Not really.
Existing premium members didn't pay to be entered into the draw, they paid for access to the premium section of the site. The same goes for you. If you're buying a premium membership just so you have a chance to be in the beta, that's cool, but you're not just getting entered into a draw, you're being given a 3 month premium service to their site. Whether or not you'd actually use it, doesn't matter. They're selling you a premium membership, but they're holding a draw for premium members to get a beta key. If the Beta drawing was the only thing being offered for 10 bucks, you'd have a point.
Shady/cheap for advertising the premium membership in order to generate subscriptions, rather than keeping the announcement within a members only area? Sure. But definitely not illegal. They're covered.
A someone who actually worked in the gaming industry in the US, I can assure you that you're completely wrong.
A better example would be when mcdonalds has the monopoly game, you can get entries for free by mail if you ask, but purchasing more things increases your odds. They have to register with the gaming commission on their state and operate with a sweepstakes license. This keeps them from scamming people by making them report any and all winners to the commission so there's a record of someone actually winning the prize instead of them just making up a sweepstakes and collecting money and never paying out to anyone.
Any purchase that can increase your chances falls under a lottery or sweepstakes depending on the jurisdiction.
You make a comment on "depending on jurisdiction" and link a Texas site. Are you certain the same law applies to California? Also, possibly a more important question... are you sure that it applies to something like a beta key, that has no actual monetary value?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's quite the same thing as the McDonalds example because there's real money at stake, not a worthless beta key (by worthless I mean, has no real world value)
If you pay to increase your odds of winning, no matter what the circumstances, it's gambling. This is clearly defined in the US. The only question is whether it's a sweepstakes or lottery, both require a license most places.
I linked to Texas because that's where they list their place of operation.
Okay, but you still aren't answering my questions.
Why doesn't it apply to Blizzard then? You have no chance if you don't pay money. That to me, sounds much the same as buying a lottery ticket. You don't buy one, you have no chances to win. So does the law not apply to them? If Blizzard has a license to distribute "winnings" to subscribers, what's to say TTH also doesn't have one?
Does it apply to something that doesn't need to be reported to this "commission"? From skimming over what you linked me, it appears to only matter if it has monetary value and needs to be officially tracked, and really makes no mention of something that doesn't, like a virtual access to a service (beta)
The internet is a grey area for a lot of things (copyright infringment being the most prominent, but I digress). I just don't really see how it's any different for Blizzard to be able to enforce a "buy our stuff, be entered to win" than TTH doing the same thing for their premium members. Again, you make a valid and great point, but it seems to be inconsistent since the source of the keys, is proving the exact same reward for buying their service.
Blizzard wouldn't sue them. They would enforce a cease and desist, if anything. Suing people is convenient, until you see the costs associated with actually doing it. Not to mention, if TTH finds a loophole and Blizzard ends up being wrong about it, it's a potential PR disaster.
Operating a lottery or sweepstakes without a license is illegal.
Qualifying better chances with any form of payment makes it gambling.
Not really.
Existing premium members didn't pay to be entered into the draw, they paid for access to the premium section of the site. The same goes for you. If you're buying a premium membership just so you have a chance to be in the beta, that's cool, but you're not just getting entered into a draw, you're being given a 3 month premium service to their site. Whether or not you'd actually use it, doesn't matter. They're selling you a premium membership, but they're holding a draw for premium members to get a beta key. If the Beta drawing was the only thing being offered for 10 bucks, you'd have a point.
Shady/cheap for advertising the premium membership in order to generate subscriptions, rather than keeping the announcement within a members only area? Sure. But definitely not illegal. They're covered.
A someone who actually worked in the gaming industry in the US, I can assure you that you're completely wrong.
A better example would be when mcdonalds has the monopoly game, you can get entries for free by mail if you ask, but purchasing more things increases your odds. They have to register with the gaming commission on their state and operate with a sweepstakes license. This keeps them from scamming people by making them report any and all winners to the commission so there's a record of someone actually winning the prize instead of them just making up a sweepstakes and collecting money and never paying out to anyone.
Any purchase that can increase your chances falls under a lottery or sweepstakes depending on the jurisdiction.
You make a comment on "depending on jurisdiction" and link a Texas site. Are you certain the same law applies to California? Also, possibly a more important question... are you sure that it applies to something like a beta key, that has no actual monetary value?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's quite the same thing as the McDonalds example because there's real money at stake, not a worthless beta key (by worthless I mean, has no real world value)
If you pay to increase your odds of winning, no matter what the circumstances, it's gambling. This is clearly defined in the US. The only question is whether it's a sweepstakes or lottery, both require a license most places.
I linked to Texas because that's where they list their place of operation.
Okay, but you still aren't answering my questions.
Why doesn't it apply to Blizzard then? You have no chance if you don't pay money. That to me, sounds much the same as buying a lottery ticket. You don't buy one, you have no chances to win. So does the law not apply to them? If Blizzard has a license to distribute "winnings" to subscribers, what's to say TTH also doesn't have one?
Does it apply to something that doesn't need to be reported to this "commission"? From skimming over what you linked me, it appears to only matter if it has monetary value and needs to be officially tracked, and really makes no mention of something that doesn't, like a virtual access to a service (beta)
The internet is a grey area for a lot of things (copyright infringment being the most prominent, but I digress). I just don't really see how it's any different for Blizzard to be able to enforce a "buy our stuff, be entered to win" than TTH doing the same thing for their premium members.
Listen, this is the real world. What you're asking me to do is give you a legal answer on a legally grey area thing. Some countries will likely deem the auction house to be gambling, as has already happened (for the most part) in South Korea (where I currently live).
You're also deflecting, even if what Blizzard did was illegal, it wouldn't affect what ten ton is doing whatsoever.
Besides, Blizzard is giving away the "prize" in multiple waves to vast numbers of people. Existing customers to not have to purchase anything. There's no clear beginning or end date or number of "prizes" listed, so it's infinitely more complicated to answer that.
You may be on to something, honestly, but unless someone complains, it doesn't really matter. Plus, Blizzard could always make the beta open at anytime and this would become a moot point.
You realize that there are 2 Beta key giveaways, one is for PREMIUM MEMBERS ONLY, the other is on facebook and anyone can enter. You're not paying for better odds, you would be buying a subscription to their website, they happen to be hosting the contest for premiums only.
Blizz gave them the keys to give out however they please.
2 options, Like their facebook page for a chance against everyone, Lame: pay money for a better chance.
Good luck fellow DiabloFans.
http://forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php?t=58648
Hence the Lame: header.
$10.00 for what exactly? Other than a small chance at a beta key?
I find it hard to trust someone like this....
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Qualifying better chances with any form of payment makes it gambling.
Not really.
Existing premium members didn't pay to be entered into the draw, they paid for access to the premium section of the site. The same goes for you. If you're buying a premium membership just so you have a chance to be in the beta, that's cool, but you're not just getting entered into a draw, you're being given a 3 month premium service to their site. Whether or not you'd actually use it, doesn't matter. They're selling you a premium membership, but they're holding a draw for premium members to get a beta key. If the Beta drawing was the only thing being offered for 10 bucks, you'd have a point.
Shady/cheap for publicly advertising the premium membership draw, rather than keeping the announcement within a members only area? Sure. But definitely not illegal. They're covered.
Using that logic, one could argue that Blizzard is doing the exact same thing by only allowing people with active Blizzard accounts (ie: paid money) to be entered into the opt in. It's essentially the very same thing. You buy a subscription/account, you're entered to win. Same logic, difference source. While I understand that Blizzard is the source of the keys, the principle of what constitutes "gambling/lottery/sweepstakes licenses" is the same, and Blizzard would need to adhere to the law.
A someone who actually worked in the gaming industry in the US, I can assure you that you're completely wrong.
A better example would be when mcdonalds has the monopoly game, you can get entries for free by mail if you ask, but purchasing more things increases your odds. They have to register with the gaming commission on their state and operate with a sweepstakes license. This keeps them from scamming people by making them report any and all winners to the commission so there's a record of someone actually winning the prize instead of them just making up a sweepstakes and collecting money and never paying out to anyone.
Any purchase that can increase your chances falls under a lottery or sweepstakes depending on the jurisdiction.
The particular statutes in violation can be found here:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/GV/htm/GV.466.htm
You make a comment on "depending on jurisdiction" and link a Texas site. Are you certain the same law applies to California? Also, possibly a more important question... are you sure that it applies to something like a beta key, that has no actual monetary value?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's quite the same thing as the McDonalds example because there's real money at stake, not a worthless beta key (by worthless I mean, has no real world value)
If you pay to increase your odds of winning, no matter what the circumstances, it's gambling. This is clearly defined in the US. The only question is whether it's a sweepstakes or lottery, this appears to be a lottery with the "pay to get better odds" qualifier. Paying money for non-cash prizes is taken very seriously.
I linked to Texas because that's where they list their place of operation.
Okay, but you still aren't answering my questions.
Why doesn't it apply to Blizzard then? You have no chance if you don't pay money. That to me, sounds much the same as buying a lottery ticket. You don't buy one, you have no chances to win. So does the law not apply to them? If Blizzard has a license to distribute "winnings" to subscribers, what's to say TTH also doesn't have one?
Does it apply to something that doesn't need to be reported to this "commission"? From skimming over what you linked me, it appears to only matter if it has monetary value and needs to be officially tracked, and really makes no mention of something that doesn't, like a virtual access to a service (beta)
The internet is a grey area for a lot of things (copyright infringment being the most prominent, but I digress). I just don't really see how it's any different for Blizzard to be able to enforce a "buy our stuff, be entered to win" than TTH doing the same thing for their premium members. Again, you make a valid and great point, but it seems to be inconsistent since the source of the keys, is proving the exact same reward for buying their service.
very lame i hope blizzard sues them.
Blizzard wouldn't sue them. They would enforce a cease and desist, if anything. Suing people is convenient, until you see the costs associated with actually doing it. Not to mention, if TTH finds a loophole and Blizzard ends up being wrong about it, it's a potential PR disaster.
Oh neat, I'm a zealot now.
Listen, this is the real world. What you're asking me to do is give you a legal answer on a legally grey area thing. Some countries will likely deem the auction house to be gambling, as has already happened (for the most part) in South Korea (where I currently live).
You're also deflecting, even if what Blizzard did was illegal, it wouldn't affect what ten ton is doing whatsoever.
Besides, Blizzard is giving away the "prize" in multiple waves to vast numbers of people. Existing customers to not have to purchase anything. There's no clear beginning or end date or number of "prizes" listed, so it's infinitely more complicated to answer that.
You may be on to something, honestly, but unless someone complains, it doesn't really matter. Plus, Blizzard could always make the beta open at anytime and this would become a moot point.
Blizz gave them the keys to give out however they please.
It'd be funny if no one got it in the first minute.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Official Blizzard Quote:
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.