So I've looked at all the known runes and I notice that for a lot of them, if not all of them, all the runes significantly change what the skill does. But what if you like the skill the way it is "normally" and just want to power that up? It doesn't appear that will be an option.
Perhaps every skill will have a rune that makes the skill solely better, it's kind of hard to tell at this point. I will use Hydra as an example, the basic one shoots fireballs and all the mods to it change the type except one that then shoots firewalls. Perhaps the firewalls are better in every way (other than appearance, but I'm talking about combat efficacy here) than the fireballs and therefore it's not a problem, but not all the skills have a "keep it the same just do more damage" option, so it seems that limits some of the skills by eliminating their basic ability the moment you find your first rune. It seems like kind of a waste.
Does anyone have hard data to show that each skill has something that absolutely makes it better, or is it just going to be that we have to look at each of the skill's runed abilities when picking what we want to use, because the basic skill won't give us any real indication as to how we'll use it?
Perhaps every skill will have a rune that makes the skill solely better, it's kind of hard to tell at this point. I will use Hydra as an example, the basic one shoots fireballs and all the mods to it change the type except one that then shoots firewalls. Perhaps the firewalls are better in every way (other than appearance, but I'm talking about combat efficacy here) than the fireballs and therefore it's not a problem, but not all the skills have a "keep it the same just do more damage" option, so it seems that limits some of the skills by eliminating their basic ability the moment you find your first rune. It seems like kind of a waste.
I don't have a quote and it's probably hard to tell what's going to actually happen before we know exactly how runes will work, but I remember reading that there will always be a rune that keeps the skill functionally the same while just increasing the damage/reducing the cost/reducing cooldown/etc. So for Hydra, I can think of lightning hydra, acid hydra, arcane hydra, firewall hydra, which leaves one more, which is probably regular hydra with some sort of bonus that doesn't change the skill.
Most of the time, Crimson runes just affect the core damage of a damaging ability, if not always. Even if it means it increases the damage by adding fire, they are the go-to-rune for increasing base effectiveness.
This is a real good question, I was also wondering this. Like the zombie wall skill, I think the zombie nova and zombie stage dive variations are neat, but I would want to be able to use the ordinary zombie wall beyond the point of finding my first rune.
It's 100% confirmed that there is at least one rune on every ability that doesn't change the base nature of the spell. Usually there are several. In fact, most skills only have 1 or 2 runes that totally change how the skill works (a la the toad spell, which has toad blizzard and giant toad, with all the others just being regular toad spell with different added effects).
It's 100% confirmed that there is at least one rune on every ability that doesn't change the base nature of the spell. Usually there are several. In fact, most skills only have 1 or 2 runes that totally change how the skill works (a la the toad spell, which has toad blizzard and giant toad, with all the others just being regular toad spell with different added effects).
Do you have a quote somewhere on that? Regardless that makes sense, I guess it's just hard to tell which ability that might be at this point. If crimson makes the rune do more damage, wouldn't that lend to crimson being the most popular or in demand rune? Has Blizzard said that each rune type will be equally common? It would almost make sense to have the more "normal" changes be the most common so finding a high level rune that makes the skill the most unique would be rarest of all, but that's probably difficult to balance and it will also depend on what they eventually do with the randomization, etc.
Do you have a quote somewhere on that? Regardless that makes sense, I guess it's just hard to tell which ability that might be at this point. If crimson makes the rune do more damage, wouldn't that lend to crimson being the most popular or in demand rune? Has Blizzard said that each rune type will be equally common? It would almost make sense to have the more "normal" changes be the most common so finding a high level rune that makes the skill the most unique would be rarest of all, but that's probably difficult to balance and it will also depend on what they eventually do with the randomization, etc.
I don't have a quote, but there was definitely a blue post (or maybe twitter response?) that said that each ability would have 1 rune that didn't alter the function, just either increased damage or made the spell cheaper/more spammable/etc.
regarding that rune being better than the others: it isn't necessarily so. If there is a rune for magic missile that increases damage by 50%*(rune lvl) vs the one that lets magic missile hit 1+(rune level) targets, one is not clearly superior than the other; they serve different purposes.
I would like to think by now that game developers understand how much players want damage, and thus will balance the other effects to be overwhelmingly tantalizing. More damage means you can move onto the next enemy faster. More damage means you expend fewer resources. More damage means you suffer less damage, as the enemy exists for a shorter time. Thus the benefits of choosing something that is not more damage needs to be really good. Completely changing the ability so it is not comparable is a nice example, as then you can possibly treat it like a utility with no regard for damage.
All I know is, I like how the ended up with the rune system. But as other have said, there will be at least one rune that is just a nice happy buff without changing the core.
I guess now it's a matter of waiting until release to start playing with all the possible combos of runes and seeing which work best for what builds. It's going to be interesting.
Every skill has at least one rune that doesn't change the core mechanic of the skill. Usually two. We definitely think the base skills are viable and will be used, but it's going to be a base skill with a cost reduction rune or basic damage increase rune.
It's possible to see from the Blizzcon 2010 gameplay footage (the one with a lot of Demon Hunter footage) that the Witch Doctor recovers mana from using "Sacrifice" on his Zombie Dogs.
I'm pretty sure that skill is runed with a Golden rune, which usually changes the skill to support better resource efficiency.
The point in not using runes at all? Making the game even more difficult? =] but seriously, who wouldn't wanna use those awesome pieces of equipment.
So really, when computing the possible (plausible) builds, you should only allow for 5 variations of each skill. Not 6. I wonder if the 73 billion or what ever it is, used 5 or 6 possibilities. Still a crazy huge number.
I must say, one of the moments I am looking forward to the most on that first night (there are soo many moments to look forward to!) is finding that first rune!
So really, when computing the possible (plausible) builds, you should only allow for 5 variations of each skill. Not 6. I wonder if the 73 billion or what ever it is, used 5 or 6 possibilities. Still a crazy huge number.
More damage vs resource support vs element change are all very different types of play-styles and thus qualify very much so as different builds =)
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Perhaps every skill will have a rune that makes the skill solely better, it's kind of hard to tell at this point. I will use Hydra as an example, the basic one shoots fireballs and all the mods to it change the type except one that then shoots firewalls. Perhaps the firewalls are better in every way (other than appearance, but I'm talking about combat efficacy here) than the fireballs and therefore it's not a problem, but not all the skills have a "keep it the same just do more damage" option, so it seems that limits some of the skills by eliminating their basic ability the moment you find your first rune. It seems like kind of a waste.
Does anyone have hard data to show that each skill has something that absolutely makes it better, or is it just going to be that we have to look at each of the skill's runed abilities when picking what we want to use, because the basic skill won't give us any real indication as to how we'll use it?
I'm very curious as to people's thoughts on this.
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell...
Do you have a quote somewhere on that? Regardless that makes sense, I guess it's just hard to tell which ability that might be at this point. If crimson makes the rune do more damage, wouldn't that lend to crimson being the most popular or in demand rune? Has Blizzard said that each rune type will be equally common? It would almost make sense to have the more "normal" changes be the most common so finding a high level rune that makes the skill the most unique would be rarest of all, but that's probably difficult to balance and it will also depend on what they eventually do with the randomization, etc.
I don't have a quote, but there was definitely a blue post (or maybe twitter response?) that said that each ability would have 1 rune that didn't alter the function, just either increased damage or made the spell cheaper/more spammable/etc.
regarding that rune being better than the others: it isn't necessarily so. If there is a rune for magic missile that increases damage by 50%*(rune lvl) vs the one that lets magic missile hit 1+(rune level) targets, one is not clearly superior than the other; they serve different purposes.
I guess now it's a matter of waiting until release to start playing with all the possible combos of runes and seeing which work best for what builds. It's going to be interesting.
Nice find! And if you want video proof, the crimson rune just adds damage to each of these attacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jewDFyHfvTE
I'm pretty sure that skill is runed with a Golden rune, which usually changes the skill to support better resource efficiency.
The point in not using runes at all? Making the game even more difficult? =] but seriously, who wouldn't wanna use those awesome pieces of equipment.
I must say, one of the moments I am looking forward to the most on that first night (there are soo many moments to look forward to!) is finding that first rune!
More damage vs resource support vs element change are all very different types of play-styles and thus qualify very much so as different builds =)