After Jay went through the trouble saying they would never balance pvm around pvp, it was my impression that they'd make the pvm play through kick ass, even better than that of wow, which did both pve and pvp well, with a thriving end game that keeps players paying years after their characters reach the initial max level, max gear, and max skill cap.
I'm glad that inferno exists (instead of farming specific bosses in hell), but only very, very slightly. I'll be forced to play through the same content over and over without a purpose/reason. What's the point of having the best gear in a PvM game if I can already beat all the content....
it was exactly the same in d2, so for people who didn't like pvp in d2 because it was retarded why did they all keep playing? because the game was so much fun to play through and get gear, that doing it tons of times is still fun. and with the amazing graphics improvement and inferno, artisans, and WAYYYYY more viable builds, d3 will have a lot more replayability then d2 for the PVE people, which is exactly what blizzard wanted, so they've achieved EXACTLY what they set out to do, and anyone who knows the true spirit of diablo and played it for its intended purpose is completely happy and more then content with all the changes / added stuff in d3.
They kept playing because they had a farmville type genre preference and no better games were on the market/they didn't want to change. I'll agree that diablo 2 was a great game in its day and age but it's something I have only been able to bring myself to play to experience people's modded versions of the game (MXL mainly) and even those got boring after a few weeks after I finished clearing the ubers, because as amazing as my gear and charms became there was no way to "use" them other than by killing crap I had already been able to clear multiple times because the pvp/community was unranked, small and thus insignificant.
They kept playing because they had a farmville type genre preference and no better games were on the market/they didn't want to change. I'll agree that diablo 2 was a great game in its day and age but it's something I have only been able to bring myself to play to experience people's modded versions of the game (MXL mainly) and even those got boring after a few weeks after I finished clearing the ubers, because as amazing as my gear and charms became there was no way to "use" them other than by killing crap I had already been able to clear multiple times because the pvp/community was unranked, small and thus insignificant.
well if thats how you feel then diablo isn't for you my friend. diablo is what diablo is. and always will be. "shut up pvp guy" from jay wilson may be a bit harsh. but he's just trying to stay true to the original idea of the game. therefor not warping it and turning it into an MMO like WoW. i for one will greatly enjoy d3 and can't wait, and many other people will also.
Sigh throughout all these post and thoughts on end game I've heard tons of opinions but what can I say that is all we got to work with. I think my biggest concern with what Sixen mentioned was something along the lines of "Why even have Inferno, we could just have you get through Nightmare and then be 60 by Hell." Not word for word mind you but still it should get the spirit of the message.
To this point I think it is more about keep the tradition of the modes intact. Diablo is a 3 tiered difficulty thingy, and in reality using Sixen's argument, why not just have you reach 60 by the end of Normal and then go into Nightmare? Well the answer would be scaling. The difficulty in the mobs scales in a way Blizzard is going to hoping we will become aware of. "Holy crap that imp just beat the crap out of me, and he shot laser out of his eyes!" That sort of thing. Mobs get stronger, different more hostile AI tactics, and a larger spell pool.
Now lets talk about the aspects of end-game. See everyone has their idea of end-game and there are multiple ways of doing it: gear-grinds, tactical boss encounters (raid bosses,) gear check fights (usually trash,) rep grinds, crafting, re-rolling new toons, and other such things. All of this encompasses end-game as it stands. Now I know technically Gear-grinding functions into all the other big ones but after you know a boss it is more gear grind then boss related.
Now like others have mentioned Inferno is "just another difficulty" which more or less relates to how people look at heroics in good 'ole WoW. That is my interpretation so please don't blast me if I'm incorrect. You all are talking about what it will be like once we out-gear it, somehow as if it will be fast and easy. To this I think... you've probably not played Diablo games before, Nightmare took time for me to adjust, and Hell hit me in the fast and made me call it Daddy. Inferno is different, it doesn't scale, the curve is purely based on gear, just like Raid encounters, high end anyhow.
It will get easier, and better but gear also only plays a factor into it. You will learn how to adjust to different mobs attack patterns, learn what sort of things to look out for from mobs and their random skill sets. Gear will just help facilitate mistakes, that is sort of what it is there for. The point I'm trying to bring up, it won't be easy, you will just get better like you did in WoW raids during end-game.
Oh and if you say you beat raiding content post-nerf then... please shut it. You've never done end-game content.
Now how to we check if something has end-game content, or at least the hardcore variety. Simple the two big bad boys of end-game, gear check fights (aka simple fights that DPS, HPS, and Tank gear checks within the fight,) and Tactical fights (think Yogg-Saron.) You can't have end-game without them, because they have encounters which test your characters gear out, and if you pass then the next fight will test your character's abilities to cope with the boss encounter (being thrown into a Old God's mind is quite taxing.) If Inferno doesn't provide these challenges then it won't be much fun, but I think it will.
Oh and before I finish realize we've never seen anything like this in the Diablo series, you could always get stronger by virtue of leveling. I see a lot of people again talking about it like it has this progression path which will make it a cake walk to level. Now maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've expecting Normal will be a cake walk, Nightmare will take some effort, Hell will require a lot of skill, and Inferno will just hurt. Difference being that throughout the game to Inferno the developers are expecting you to get stronger, at Inferno, they know what they expect you to be capable of to get through it. It will be full tilt, do you remember what Hell was like in D2 when you first got there with the nice gear from Nightmare? The full tilt undead just taking punishment and... freaking lightning! Think that none stop because you're not going to get stronger then these monsters like you did in D2.
I will enjoy it too, for a few months. You may very well be right about that, though I don't see how emphasizing more on pvp would make diablo like an MMO. I guess in the end that's still my complaint. No matter how many times they try and force me to play through 4 different difficulties of the same content (and inferno over and over) ultimately I will just grind out and find a better time sink with better psychology.
Sigh throughout all these post and thoughts on end game I've heard tons of opinions but what can I say that is all we got to work with. I think my biggest concern with what Sixen mentioned was something along the lines of "Why even have Inferno, we could just have you get through Nightmare and then be 60 by Hell." Not word for word mind you but still it should get the spirit of the message.
To this point I think it is more about keep the tradition of the modes intact. Diablo is a 3 tiered difficulty thingy, and in reality using Sixen's argument, why not just have you reach 60 by the end of Normal and then go into Nightmare? Well the answer would be scaling. The difficulty in the mobs scales in a way Blizzard is going to hoping we will become aware of. "Holy crap that imp just beat the crap out of me, and he shot laser out of his eyes!" That sort of thing. Mobs get stronger, different more hostile AI tactics, and a larger spell pool.
Now lets talk about the aspects of end-game. See everyone has their idea of end-game and there are multiple ways of doing it: gear-grinds, tactical boss encounters (raid bosses,) gear check fights (usually trash,) rep grinds, crafting, re-rolling new toons, and other such things. All of this encompasses end-game as it stands. Now I know technically Gear-grinding functions into all the other big ones but after you know a boss it is more gear grind then boss related.
Now like others have mentioned Inferno is "just another difficulty" which more or less relates to how people look at heroics in good 'ole WoW. That is my interpretation so please don't blast me if I'm incorrect. You all are talking about what it will be like once we out-gear it, somehow as if it will be fast and easy. To this I think... you've probably not played Diablo games before, Nightmare took time for me to adjust, and Hell hit me in the fast and made me call it Daddy. Inferno is different, it doesn't scale, the curve is purely based on gear, just like Raid encounters, high end anyhow.
It will get easier, and better but gear also only plays a factor into it. You will learn how to adjust to different mobs attack patterns, learn what sort of things to look out for from mobs and their random skill sets. Gear will just help facilitate mistakes, that is sort of what it is there for. The point I'm trying to bring up, it won't be easy, you will just get better like you did in WoW raids during end-game.
Oh and if you say you beat raiding content post-nerf then... please shut it. You've never done end-game content.
Now how to we check if something has end-game content, or at least the hardcore variety. Simple the two big bad boys of end-game, gear check fights (aka simple fights that DPS, HPS, and Tank gear checks within the fight,) and Tactical fights (think Yogg-Saron.) You can't have end-game without them, because they have encounters which test your characters gear out, and if you pass then the next fight will test your character's abilities to cope with the boss encounter (being thrown into a Old God's mind is quite taxing.) If Inferno doesn't provide these challenges then it won't be much fun, but I think it will.
Oh and before I finish realize we've never seen anything like this in the Diablo series, you could always get stronger by virtue of leveling. I see a lot of people again talking about it like it has this progression path which will make it a cake walk to level. Now maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've expecting Normal will be a cake walk, Nightmare will take some effort, Hell will require a lot of skill, and Inferno will just hurt. Difference being that throughout the game to Inferno the developers are expecting you to get stronger, at Inferno, they know what they expect you to be capable of to get through it. It will be full tilt, do you remember what Hell was like in D2 when you first got there with the nice gear from Nightmare? The full tilt undead just taking punishment and... freaking lightning! Think that none stop because you're not going to get stronger then these monsters like you did in D2.
i just had to acknowledge this epic post and the work you put into it. good view, great points. i feel the same. thanks for sharing ars
While I respect people and their opinions I'd just like to point out that saying "did you really play diablo 2, what you're saying makes me wonder" (basically) is not a good basis for an argument. At least 90% of us here have played diablo at some point or another, why else would we be here in a d3 forum posting our sentiments concerning a game without a release date, even for beta.
While I respect people and their opinions I'd just like to point out that saying "did you really play diablo 2, what you're saying makes me wonder" (basically) is not a good basis for an argument. At least 90% of us here have played diablo at some point or another, why else would we be here in a d3 forum posting our sentiments concerning a game without a release date, even for beta.
While I respect people and their opinions I'd just like to point out that saying "did you really play diablo 2, what you're saying makes me wonder" (basically) is not a good basis for an argument. At least 90% of us here have played diablo at some point or another, why else would we be here in a d3 forum posting our sentiments concerning a game without a release date, even for beta.
Hi, don't know if you were talking about something I said, which went more along the lines of, "Did you really play Nightmare or Hell? See you make it sound like the leveling was dirt easy, and I just don't get that logic." My problem is that people seem to relate Nightmare and Hell as something akin to going from Northern Stranglethorn, to Southern Stranglethorn. That there is my problem, and yes I referenced WoW and you nor anyone else really has but it is the jist of everyone's argument. They are looking at this as just straight up progression, mobs get harder but just because of the level difference.
In Diablo2, and I'm hoping this hold true to D3, mobs don't just get harder, other values change (like freaking physically immune on my BARB stupid f#*%$*#g game!) Now we know in D3 combat strategies change for mobs, they may do more to call out friends or retreat till they can find support, just to give some ideas on the possibilities. I think it was mentioned that skill trees may increase for them as well.
Anyhow just felt I might have been one that was targeted and wanted to straighten that whole misunderstanding out. People I'm sure have played the game, but I must suck since it wasn't such a cake walk to 85 for me.
Well most recently... the person you quoted saying you agreed with on all points.
the man posted like 10 paragraphs i didn't read every word, lol. but i agreed with him, a lot of people who played diablo on here try and argue about things wrong with it and it seems like they have no idea what diablo is about. sad but true.
Well, comparing north and south STV would probably be more similar to the beginning and later part of an act than two different game mode difficulties. That said I'm not really sure where anyone was going with those points. The leveling aspect of wow that should be compared to diablo is that every so many levels you experience a new region with new quests. I understand diablo's history in that you play through multiple difficulties of the same content, but I have to take off my hat to wow in this instance because I honestly think it had a better model than diablo in terms of leveling for these reasons. Ultimately you could even enhance/switch up/ or level up entirely by just casually pvping or queing up instances in wow in between or as a replacement for quests, another stronger platform for leveling.
What I was actually talking about (although I don't think you were the only one who suggested this) was
Now like others have mentioned Inferno is "just another difficulty" which more or less relates to how people look at heroics in good 'ole WoW. That is my interpretation so please don't blast me if I'm incorrect. You all are talking about what it will be like once we out-gear it, somehow as if it will be fast and easy. To this I think... you've probably not played Diablo games before, Nightmare took time for me to adjust, and Hell hit me in the fast and made me call it Daddy. Inferno is different, it doesn't scale, the curve is purely based on gear, just like Raid encounters, high end anyhow.
On which I disagree with. Diablo 2 in general was a cake walk for me. Even in medianXL where the monsters were more aggressive and there were many dangerous bosses and things that could literally one shot you the gameplay eventually got bland once you figured out the mechanisms and gimmicks, which didn't take long at all. The game is being designed to be "beaten", and that includes inferno,which can be beaten solo.
In a way I feel like I can relate to the experience of "more aggressive mobs, with more bosses with stronger/newer powers" because of my experience in MXL. In the end it may be more difficult for everyone, but the games are designed to be beaten these days so the vast majority of players will breeze through so long as they have the time of day to play. I think that was also their intention, that you log on spend time and make progress regardless of skill level, they wanted the game to be beaten by the top and bottom of the player skill spectrum.
Well most recently... the person you quoted saying you agreed with on all points.
the man posted like 10 paragraphs i didn't read every word, lol. but i agreed with him, a lot of people who played diablo on here try and argue about things wrong with it and it seems like they have no idea what diablo is about. sad but true.
Not to beat on the drum which is all about saying he agreed with me, but he summed it up perfectly. I didn't see Diablo 2 as a cake walk, easy, or just simply going from level to level. Each difficulty provided new challenges beyond just the leveling to get stronger.
My issue is with when you said something along the lines of, "Inferno being a slight buff in difficulty." Ok when they say it is going to be a challenge, the whole thing, then I"m thinking, maybe it won't be a slight bump. Could be just me though.
Well most recently... the person you quoted saying you agreed with on all points.
the man posted like 10 paragraphs i didn't read every word, lol. but i agreed with him, a lot of people who played diablo on here try and argue about things wrong with it and it seems like they have no idea what diablo is about. sad but true.
Well you quoted him and said the post was "epic" and agreed with him basically concerning everything he said, so I just assumed you took the time to actually read everything he said before saying that... and then quoted me asking who so I handed you an example from your own previous post/(quote).
Putting that aside, each of our impressions concerning what we think "diablo is all about" or how people "should play the game" are specific to us individually. You may have thought it was about one thing, and I might have thought it was about another. Neither one is more correct because in the end we both found something about the game we liked and both points are true.
While I respect people and their opinions I'd just like to point out that saying "did you really play diablo 2, what you're saying makes me wonder" (basically) is not a good basis for an argument. At least 90% of us here have played diablo at some point or another, why else would we be here in a d3 forum posting our sentiments concerning a game without a release date, even for beta.
While some may think that at least 90% of the people posting here on the d3 forums played Diablo 2 at some point or another, yeah they did play at one point or another but their ideas & suggestions don't mean a thing 'coz 89% of them never made it through Hell, so they don't know what Diablo end game is all about. All you can hear from these guys are suggestions of end game content similar to WoW.
You guys are in the wrong website... this is Diablo, not your WoW. Play through Hell in Diablo II first before you freakin' give suggestions about end-game content for Diablo.
Well most recently... the person you quoted saying you agreed with on all points.
the man posted like 10 paragraphs i didn't read every word, lol. but i agreed with him, a lot of people who played diablo on here try and argue about things wrong with it and it seems like they have no idea what diablo is about. sad but true.
Not to beat on the drum which is all about saying he agreed with me, but he summed it up perfectly. I didn't see Diablo 2 as a cake walk, easy, or just simply going from level to level. Each difficulty provided new challenges beyond just the leveling to get stronger.
My issue is with when you said something along the lines of, "Inferno being a slight buff in difficulty." Ok when they say it is going to be a challenge, the whole thing, then I"m thinking, maybe it won't be a slight bump. Could be just me though.
Honestly I don't expect to be challenged by anything in the game other than a few major bosses abilities I wasn't ready for and lack of resistances. I have this opinion and expectation >because< I played diablo and diablo mods, and because I'm a logical minded person/player. All it takes, to beat a game designed for casuals, easily, is to have experience with previous titles in that genre and a logical mind. I seriously doubt that short of lack of resistance (maybe armor/hp) the game itself won't(edit*) be a cakewalk for the upper tiers of players, but that wasn't even my >main< point.
The point I was mostly trying to get across is you can't really just take items from the third difficulty, throw them in a newly made fourth difficulty, and call it "end game", because if they hadn't made the fourth difficulty the third difficulty would have been "end game". I mean seriously, we're going to be playing the same sht over and over, how is the same content, but harder(gear requirementlololol) = End Game.....?
Well then Kodachii, I guess we are just on different playing fields then. See for me Nightmare took some adjusting and Hell was well... just hell. If the game was a cake walk for you I don't think there is very much you can get even out of this game, beyond the story and completing it factor. The series hasn't been very challenging to you.
Now as for WoW having varied leveling paths, sure it does, questing being its strongest part. I think bringing PvP out as an option sort of goes in line with repetitive game play, again just my thoughts on the matter. Dungeons, is just running instances over and over and over again. All I'm getting at here is that there is a ton of repetition in all these avenues.
Now I'm going to tip my hat here to you, I do love mixing it all up... minus the PvP. I use to love PvP but that was a different life, I was young and into experimenting, I... I just want to leave that past behind me. Mixing it up was fun but since Diablo is just a big instance I think it may be hard to do. Also after you beat the story arc once it is going to be repetition till the patch at least.
I guess what I'm reading Inferno to be is this high skilled end game which has very little room for error, we will all get better at it but that will be because we got better, not so much because it was easy or "meant to be beaten."
Oh and on that note, you do realize games that weren't "meant to be beaten," were games from the arcade era when killing players meant more money. There hasn't been a game out there that I've yet to beat on PC or console because developers don't try and leave you with a nearly impossibly small margin for success.
Just feel that you may not have noticed that most games should have some chance at victory. Even Diablo 1 & 2 had that.
While I respect people and their opinions I'd just like to point out that saying "did you really play diablo 2, what you're saying makes me wonder" (basically) is not a good basis for an argument. At least 90% of us here have played diablo at some point or another, why else would we be here in a d3 forum posting our sentiments concerning a game without a release date, even for beta.
While some may think that at least 90% of the people posting here on the d3 forums played Diablo 2 at some point or another, yeah they did play at one point or another but their ideas & suggestions don't mean a thing 'coz 89% of them never made it through Hell, so they don't know what Diablo end game is all about. All you can hear from these guys are suggestions of end game content similar to WoW.
You guys are in the wrong website... this is Diablo, not your WoW. Play through Hell in Diablo II first before you freakin' give suggestions about end-game content for Diablo.
.
1)We found out his post was mainly a response to what I was saying. He wasn't (really) targeting the whole posting base.
2)I don't understand this idea that 89% of posters here haven't played through hell diablo 2 mumbo jumbo, because even if that were true I played diablo 2 for the better part of 2 years straight. I found it quite interesting forming a clan called "Ghost" and sniping the griefers in softcore LOD useast like -Nub, Ez, and Pk who ran around in groups using hacked items and maphacks and autoaim to give themselves advantages in pvp, alongside just gang banging people. Ultimately I made friends who were also competitive and would team up to pvp down said groups of players. I was involved with d2jsp facilitated tournaments once upon a time years back so to me, who never so much as met these 89% of the 90% of the players you're talking about whom you claim exist, I'm completely unaware of what you're trying to say here.
3)As much as you want to say "you wow players don't belong here", too bad man, FFS. I'm not just a wow player, though I have scarcely played wow over the past several years I have played more rpg, fps, and rts than a person with a life probably should. So don't try and say that, just because I've enjoyed more than diablo in my gaming past, that I'm not a diablo player because I bring up valid comparisons between diablo 2 and another blizzard RPG title.
Well most recently... the person you quoted saying you agreed with on all points.
the man posted like 10 paragraphs i didn't read every word, lol. but i agreed with him, a lot of people who played diablo on here try and argue about things wrong with it and it seems like they have no idea what diablo is about. sad but true.
Not to beat on the drum which is all about saying he agreed with me, but he summed it up perfectly. I didn't see Diablo 2 as a cake walk, easy, or just simply going from level to level. Each difficulty provided new challenges beyond just the leveling to get stronger.
My issue is with when you said something along the lines of, "Inferno being a slight buff in difficulty." Ok when they say it is going to be a challenge, the whole thing, then I"m thinking, maybe it won't be a slight bump. Could be just me though.
Honestly I don't expect to be challenged by anything in the game other than a few major bosses abilities I wasn't ready for and lack of resistances. I have this opinion and expectation >because< I played diablo and diablo mods, and because I'm a logical minded person/player. All it takes, to beat a game designed for casuals, easily, is to have experience with previous titles in that genre and a logical mind. I seriously doubt that short of lack of resistance (maybe armor/hp) the game itself will be a cakewalk for the upper tiers of players, but that wasn't even my >main< point.
The point I was mostly trying to get across is you can't really just take items from the third difficulty, throw them in a newly made fourth difficulty, and call it "end game", because if they hadn't made the fourth difficulty the third difficulty would have been "end game". I mean seriously, we're going to be playing the same sht over and over, how is the same content, but harder(gear requirementlololol) = End Game.....?
Well ok, if they never made Inferno then we got to do Diablo runs, and maybe the Unicorn ranch. Yeah for end game! Now we have 4 acts of stuff to get loot from. It is a start, it isn't new story lines or anything but its better than running Baal till you get grey hair, note need to dye my hair again. Plus Hell gear does drop, this is true but Inferno has its own tier of gear that can drop and is the best.
Really for the average player, the first play through will likely be enough. Now for me, I'm gearing my toons out. 5 at least will be made to look pretty and all awesome in good gear. Plus stuff will be patched in that will likely require you've grinded some god gear by the time it comes out.
Well then Kodachii, I guess we are just on different playing fields then. See for me Nightmare took some adjusting and Hell was well... just hell. If the game was a cake walk for you I don't think there is very much you can get even out of this game, beyond the story and completing it factor. The series hasn't been very challenging to you.
Now as for WoW having varied leveling paths, sure it does, questing being its strongest part. I think bringing PvP out as an option sort of goes in line with repetitive game play, again just my thoughts on the matter. Dungeons, is just running instances over and over and over again. All I'm getting at here is that there is a ton of repetition in all these avenues.
Now I'm going to tip my hat here to you, I do love mixing it all up... minus the PvP. I use to love PvP but that was a different life, I was young and into experimenting, I... I just want to leave that past behind me. Mixing it up was fun but since Diablo is just a big instance I think it may be hard to do. Also after you beat the story arc once it is going to be repetition till the patch at least.
I guess what I'm reading Inferno to be is this high skilled end game which has very little room for error, we will all get better at it but that will be because we got better, not so much because it was easy or "meant to be beaten."
Oh and on that note, you do realize games that weren't "meant to be beaten," were games from the arcade era when killing players meant more money. There hasn't been a game out there that I've yet to beat on PC or console because developers don't try and leave you with a nearly impossibly small margin for success.
Just feel that you may not have noticed that most games should have some chance at victory. Even Diablo 1 & 2 had that.
I can't say anything bad about this post, but let me please return to my original point.
While I can't speak for him, players like sixen who are at the top end of the experience/skill spectrum, inferno is just a gear check repeat of the same content that would have otherwise just been in hell mode. If he's anything like me, the introduction of inferno is better than the system that was in place, but it's hardly an improvement at all, much less if Jay's going to try and call it "end game" and create another excuse to keep amazing things from being put into an already great game we are passionate about.
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it was exactly the same in d2, so for people who didn't like pvp in d2 because it was retarded why did they all keep playing? because the game was so much fun to play through and get gear, that doing it tons of times is still fun. and with the amazing graphics improvement and inferno, artisans, and WAYYYYY more viable builds, d3 will have a lot more replayability then d2 for the PVE people, which is exactly what blizzard wanted, so they've achieved EXACTLY what they set out to do, and anyone who knows the true spirit of diablo and played it for its intended purpose is completely happy and more then content with all the changes / added stuff in d3.
well if thats how you feel then diablo isn't for you my friend. diablo is what diablo is. and always will be. "shut up pvp guy" from jay wilson may be a bit harsh. but he's just trying to stay true to the original idea of the game. therefor not warping it and turning it into an MMO like WoW. i for one will greatly enjoy d3 and can't wait, and many other people will also.
To this point I think it is more about keep the tradition of the modes intact. Diablo is a 3 tiered difficulty thingy, and in reality using Sixen's argument, why not just have you reach 60 by the end of Normal and then go into Nightmare? Well the answer would be scaling. The difficulty in the mobs scales in a way Blizzard is going to hoping we will become aware of. "Holy crap that imp just beat the crap out of me, and he shot laser out of his eyes!" That sort of thing. Mobs get stronger, different more hostile AI tactics, and a larger spell pool.
Now lets talk about the aspects of end-game. See everyone has their idea of end-game and there are multiple ways of doing it: gear-grinds, tactical boss encounters (raid bosses,) gear check fights (usually trash,) rep grinds, crafting, re-rolling new toons, and other such things. All of this encompasses end-game as it stands. Now I know technically Gear-grinding functions into all the other big ones but after you know a boss it is more gear grind then boss related.
Now like others have mentioned Inferno is "just another difficulty" which more or less relates to how people look at heroics in good 'ole WoW. That is my interpretation so please don't blast me if I'm incorrect. You all are talking about what it will be like once we out-gear it, somehow as if it will be fast and easy. To this I think... you've probably not played Diablo games before, Nightmare took time for me to adjust, and Hell hit me in the fast and made me call it Daddy. Inferno is different, it doesn't scale, the curve is purely based on gear, just like Raid encounters, high end anyhow.
It will get easier, and better but gear also only plays a factor into it. You will learn how to adjust to different mobs attack patterns, learn what sort of things to look out for from mobs and their random skill sets. Gear will just help facilitate mistakes, that is sort of what it is there for. The point I'm trying to bring up, it won't be easy, you will just get better like you did in WoW raids during end-game.
Oh and if you say you beat raiding content post-nerf then... please shut it. You've never done end-game content.
Now how to we check if something has end-game content, or at least the hardcore variety. Simple the two big bad boys of end-game, gear check fights (aka simple fights that DPS, HPS, and Tank gear checks within the fight,) and Tactical fights (think Yogg-Saron.) You can't have end-game without them, because they have encounters which test your characters gear out, and if you pass then the next fight will test your character's abilities to cope with the boss encounter (being thrown into a Old God's mind is quite taxing.) If Inferno doesn't provide these challenges then it won't be much fun, but I think it will.
Oh and before I finish realize we've never seen anything like this in the Diablo series, you could always get stronger by virtue of leveling. I see a lot of people again talking about it like it has this progression path which will make it a cake walk to level. Now maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've expecting Normal will be a cake walk, Nightmare will take some effort, Hell will require a lot of skill, and Inferno will just hurt. Difference being that throughout the game to Inferno the developers are expecting you to get stronger, at Inferno, they know what they expect you to be capable of to get through it. It will be full tilt, do you remember what Hell was like in D2 when you first got there with the nice gear from Nightmare? The full tilt undead just taking punishment and... freaking lightning! Think that none stop because you're not going to get stronger then these monsters like you did in D2.
i just had to acknowledge this epic post and the work you put into it. good view, great points. i feel the same. thanks for sharing ars
who said that? lol
Hi, don't know if you were talking about something I said, which went more along the lines of, "Did you really play Nightmare or Hell? See you make it sound like the leveling was dirt easy, and I just don't get that logic." My problem is that people seem to relate Nightmare and Hell as something akin to going from Northern Stranglethorn, to Southern Stranglethorn. That there is my problem, and yes I referenced WoW and you nor anyone else really has but it is the jist of everyone's argument. They are looking at this as just straight up progression, mobs get harder but just because of the level difference.
In Diablo2, and I'm hoping this hold true to D3, mobs don't just get harder, other values change (like freaking physically immune on my BARB stupid f#*%$*#g game!) Now we know in D3 combat strategies change for mobs, they may do more to call out friends or retreat till they can find support, just to give some ideas on the possibilities. I think it was mentioned that skill trees may increase for them as well.
Anyhow just felt I might have been one that was targeted and wanted to straighten that whole misunderstanding out. People I'm sure have played the game, but I must suck since it wasn't such a cake walk to 85 for me.
the man posted like 10 paragraphs i didn't read every word, lol. but i agreed with him, a lot of people who played diablo on here try and argue about things wrong with it and it seems like they have no idea what diablo is about. sad but true.
What I was actually talking about (although I don't think you were the only one who suggested this) was
On which I disagree with. Diablo 2 in general was a cake walk for me. Even in medianXL where the monsters were more aggressive and there were many dangerous bosses and things that could literally one shot you the gameplay eventually got bland once you figured out the mechanisms and gimmicks, which didn't take long at all. The game is being designed to be "beaten", and that includes inferno,which can be beaten solo.
In a way I feel like I can relate to the experience of "more aggressive mobs, with more bosses with stronger/newer powers" because of my experience in MXL. In the end it may be more difficult for everyone, but the games are designed to be beaten these days so the vast majority of players will breeze through so long as they have the time of day to play. I think that was also their intention, that you log on spend time and make progress regardless of skill level, they wanted the game to be beaten by the top and bottom of the player skill spectrum.
Not to beat on the drum which is all about saying he agreed with me, but he summed it up perfectly. I didn't see Diablo 2 as a cake walk, easy, or just simply going from level to level. Each difficulty provided new challenges beyond just the leveling to get stronger.
My issue is with when you said something along the lines of, "Inferno being a slight buff in difficulty." Ok when they say it is going to be a challenge, the whole thing, then I"m thinking, maybe it won't be a slight bump. Could be just me though.
Well you quoted him and said the post was "epic" and agreed with him basically concerning everything he said, so I just assumed you took the time to actually read everything he said before saying that... and then quoted me asking who so I handed you an example from your own previous post/(quote).
Putting that aside, each of our impressions concerning what we think "diablo is all about" or how people "should play the game" are specific to us individually. You may have thought it was about one thing, and I might have thought it was about another. Neither one is more correct because in the end we both found something about the game we liked and both points are true.
You guys are in the wrong website... this is Diablo, not your WoW. Play through Hell in Diablo II first before you freakin' give suggestions about end-game content for Diablo.
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My PvP build would be different from these 13.
Check out the leaked Demon Hunter skill list here from Blizzard China: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tiny.cc/10p16
Diablo III is $50; MSI GT683DXR-423US Gaming Laptop is $1,599; Playing Diablo III w/ my wife & 2 brothers is PRICELESS
Honestly I don't expect to be challenged by anything in the game other than a few major bosses abilities I wasn't ready for and lack of resistances. I have this opinion and expectation >because< I played diablo and diablo mods, and because I'm a logical minded person/player. All it takes, to beat a game designed for casuals, easily, is to have experience with previous titles in that genre and a logical mind. I seriously doubt that short of lack of resistance (maybe armor/hp) the game itself won't(edit*) be a cakewalk for the upper tiers of players, but that wasn't even my >main< point.
The point I was mostly trying to get across is you can't really just take items from the third difficulty, throw them in a newly made fourth difficulty, and call it "end game", because if they hadn't made the fourth difficulty the third difficulty would have been "end game". I mean seriously, we're going to be playing the same sht over and over, how is the same content, but harder(gear requirementlololol) = End Game.....?
Now as for WoW having varied leveling paths, sure it does, questing being its strongest part. I think bringing PvP out as an option sort of goes in line with repetitive game play, again just my thoughts on the matter. Dungeons, is just running instances over and over and over again. All I'm getting at here is that there is a ton of repetition in all these avenues.
Now I'm going to tip my hat here to you, I do love mixing it all up... minus the PvP. I use to love PvP but that was a different life, I was young and into experimenting, I... I just want to leave that past behind me. Mixing it up was fun but since Diablo is just a big instance I think it may be hard to do. Also after you beat the story arc once it is going to be repetition till the patch at least.
I guess what I'm reading Inferno to be is this high skilled end game which has very little room for error, we will all get better at it but that will be because we got better, not so much because it was easy or "meant to be beaten."
Oh and on that note, you do realize games that weren't "meant to be beaten," were games from the arcade era when killing players meant more money. There hasn't been a game out there that I've yet to beat on PC or console because developers don't try and leave you with a nearly impossibly small margin for success.
Just feel that you may not have noticed that most games should have some chance at victory. Even Diablo 1 & 2 had that.
1)We found out his post was mainly a response to what I was saying. He wasn't (really) targeting the whole posting base.
2)I don't understand this idea that 89% of posters here haven't played through hell diablo 2 mumbo jumbo, because even if that were true I played diablo 2 for the better part of 2 years straight. I found it quite interesting forming a clan called "Ghost" and sniping the griefers in softcore LOD useast like -Nub, Ez, and Pk who ran around in groups using hacked items and maphacks and autoaim to give themselves advantages in pvp, alongside just gang banging people. Ultimately I made friends who were also competitive and would team up to pvp down said groups of players. I was involved with d2jsp facilitated tournaments once upon a time years back so to me, who never so much as met these 89% of the 90% of the players you're talking about whom you claim exist, I'm completely unaware of what you're trying to say here.
3)As much as you want to say "you wow players don't belong here", too bad man, FFS. I'm not just a wow player, though I have scarcely played wow over the past several years I have played more rpg, fps, and rts than a person with a life probably should. So don't try and say that, just because I've enjoyed more than diablo in my gaming past, that I'm not a diablo player because I bring up valid comparisons between diablo 2 and another blizzard RPG title.
Well ok, if they never made Inferno then we got to do Diablo runs, and maybe the Unicorn ranch. Yeah for end game! Now we have 4 acts of stuff to get loot from. It is a start, it isn't new story lines or anything but its better than running Baal till you get grey hair, note need to dye my hair again. Plus Hell gear does drop, this is true but Inferno has its own tier of gear that can drop and is the best.
Really for the average player, the first play through will likely be enough. Now for me, I'm gearing my toons out. 5 at least will be made to look pretty and all awesome in good gear. Plus stuff will be patched in that will likely require you've grinded some god gear by the time it comes out.
I can't say anything bad about this post, but let me please return to my original point.
While I can't speak for him, players like sixen who are at the top end of the experience/skill spectrum, inferno is just a gear check repeat of the same content that would have otherwise just been in hell mode. If he's anything like me, the introduction of inferno is better than the system that was in place, but it's hardly an improvement at all, much less if Jay's going to try and call it "end game" and create another excuse to keep amazing things from being put into an already great game we are passionate about.