Well as we all know Inferno difficulty is upon us.
This makes me wonder...
How will the hell difficulty of D3 compare to the Hell difficulty of D2?
Personally I believe that D3Hell<D2Hell (D2 Hell is harder)
These are my four reasons (some of these are more or less valid than others)
1. I have the impression that reaching level 60 in D3 will be easier than reaching level 99 in D2. (I think we can all agree on that right.
Therefore leveling your character will be easier, and this will make getting to the end of Hell easier.
2. Blizzard had claimed that they would not have monsters in D3 with complete immunities to a spell type or physical damage. (only resistances)
3. I may not have played D3 Hell yet, but I remember getting to Hell with my Barbarian a couple days ago and seeing him go from being awesome (in nightmare) to barely able to kill a Zombie. (in Hell)
4. If Hell difficulty in D3 is higher than in D2, then how hard will inferno be? @.@
(essentially this would cut out many people who want to try to complete the game in at least the first 3 difficulties)
Discuss
P.S: I think inferno mode will give me nightmares.
You wont be getting stuck in d3 because you can change your abilities and strategy for boss fights. They may be more challenging strategically because you have to use more than just portals and potions to kill, and traps and running past enemies is more difficult.
d3 hell: tries your talent and insight
d2 hell: tries your patience and luck. (luck more so than in d3 anyway)
However I'm wondering how will they pull the difficulty ramp from nightmare to hell..
I just hope I'll be like:
- normal piece of cake
- nightmare uu a little harder
- hell wow they're tearing me apart, better make a couple of runs on nm.
- inferno WTF is this shit? co-op only....
more like:
-norm: click. win
-nightmare: run around, click, mash your face on keyboard. win
-hell: bleed at your computer for sympathy. time passes. win
-inferno: Time passes. Time passes. Time passes... THIS MUST BE ENDGAME! Time passes. die, PVP!
However I'm wondering how will they pull the difficulty ramp from nightmare to hell..
I just hope I'll be like:
- normal piece of cake
- nightmare uu a little harder
- hell wow they're tearing me apart, better make a couple of runs on nm.
- inferno WTF is this shit? co-op only....
LOL - made me think....
- normal .............(ring, ring) "Hey ma, nah I´m not busy, what´s up?"
- nightmare .............(ring, ring) Hey ma, one sec.................................................... quick, what´s up?"
- hell .............(ring, ring) Hey ma, ............... shit, I´ll call you back!!!!
- inferno .............ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring......
Interesting opinions about the difficulty throughout the game.
Here are my what I hope for in terms of difficulty, (not necessarily what I expect)
Normal - This has a little challenge, but can still be fairly easy. (the easy part will probably be the first 2 or 3 acts, I am hoping that at last act 4 ramps up it just a little. Personally I would hate to beat normal and be like, wow that took absolutely no strategy at all.)
Nightmare- A significant step up, and hopefully a good challenge.
Hell - Not the Diablo 2 Hell where you get 3 shotted by the first zombie you see, but a step down from that. Still quite challenging.
Inferno - A challenge for the real men. Things probably won't insta kill you,(no potions in D3), but they will make you pay for you mistakes very quickly. That being said I hope it is ridiculously hard. I also hope that they never nerf it, if they deem the difficulty appropriate.
I agree with you EscapistFred on the immunity thing, it is somewhat ridiculous that a whole talent tree (EX: sorceress talent tree) is rendered useless against a certain monster.
I am glad you pointed out that the difficulty of D3 is more of a "skill" unlike the D2 difficulty which is more about getting the right gear.
I completely forgot to take into account the amount of skills we can use easily this time. It should be quite interesting!
Personally I believe that D3Hell<D2Hell (D2 Hell is harder)
Uh... Average capped diablo 2 player (level 85) fighting monsters around the same level in hell? Let's not forget that most people were geared out in Pvp/Endgame equivilent gear (duping, baal runs, bots, etc) so the actual "content" perspective of Diablo 2 was a joke. Jay wislon also said in the interview at Gamescom that Inferno was designed to eliviate the lack there of content that existed in Diablo 2. You can't even compare the two similarities because well Diablo 3 isn't out yet and inferno isn't accessible.
1. I have the impression that reaching level 60 in D3 will be easier than reaching level 99 in D2. (I think we can all agree on that right.
Reaching 99 in Diablo 2 wasn't even viable unless you did CONSTANT BAAL/CHAOS runs all the time or farmed super unique "mini bosses" pitt runs, etc anything with high (level 87+) I believe it was? Atleast in Diablo 3 we are being almost "forced" to playthrough the entire content in order to progress, so it wont be repetitive and unnecessary grinding.
So we all know the D3 devs think D2 is too easy. The devs look at level 99 D2 characters rolling level 85 monsters and break out in hives. That's how much they hate it. Will D3 hell be as difficult as D2 hell? Maybe. I'd go as far as to say probably. But Inferno? Inferno's gonna be empty diet coke bottle throwing, "oh man I ruined my space bar" rage, "holy crap did I just break my hand on my desk?" hard.
So, I really like the flat difficulty idea, because that will allow me to focus on exploring the world and benefiting from Diablo's randomization. Grinding the same areas sends me into one of those hellish, metaphysical, Cartesian "what does it all mean" phases, wherein my hollow and thoughtless actions become indistinguishable from random quantum fluctuations.
Another thing about really hard, really flat difficulty gameplay: I'm gonna be scared to walk around every single corner. THAT, friends, is Diablo 1 in a nutshell. "I don't know what's behind that door, but I know it's gonna kick my ass in the face."
I'll never, EVER forget finding the Butcher for the first time. After he 2-shot me I had to get up and walk around to get my heart rate back into a normal human operating range. That's what I want from inferno.
But let's get serious for a minute guys. Inferno is end game.. Right? That means end game is gear grinding. Fun gear grinding? Yeah, probably. Much more challenging and zone-unrestricted gear grinding? Yeh. But it's grinding folks, make no mistake. Look, I'm a grown-ass man, and I expect a bit more than kill/loot/repeat.
That's why the most exciting part of this announcement is Blizzard saying that Inferno is not the only end-game mechanic for D3.. If you want a quote, I can find it, but THAT got me jacked up.. They have more ideas they're working on outside of Inferno for end game!
I want EVENTS. I want fresh stuff to do. And it looks like I'm gonna get it. Blizzard and I are having a good week. No fights, brings me flowers, takes me out to nice dinners..
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
I'm pretty confident I remember seeing a blue post that stated that reaching level 60 in this game should feel like getting to about level 80-85 in D2. So yes, naturally, it is easier to get to level 60 than to level 99.
But don't forget that now that we don't have to worry about attack rating, the devs can scale up the defense to compensate, and now that there are no immunities, the devs can scale up resistance. I can see D3 being easier, but there are also several reasons why I think it could be harder, so I don't know that I could really predict one or the other.
However, I would imagine that they'll deliberately make you feel useless in Hell as often as possible.
I think, and hope, the difference is that D3 is challenging in hell and inferno difficulties, without the impossible factor. Some enemies in D2 were impossible to kill for certain classes in D2. I think by removing the magic immunities this will be solved completely. I have no problem with monsters being 95% resistant to damage, but immunities weren't fun, they were just frustrating. Make enemies dangerous, and very hard to kill, the harder the better. Its when you get to impossible ones that I always got frustrated. Frustration and challenge are different animals, even if they are similar.
But let's get serious for a minute guys. Inferno is end game.. Right? That means end game is gear grinding. Fun gear grinding? Yeah, probably. Much more challenging and zone-unrestricted gear grinding? Yeh. But it's grinding folks, make no mistake. Look, I'm a grown-ass man, and I expect a bit more than kill/loot/repeat.
That's why the most exciting part of this announcement is Blizzard saying that Inferno is not the only end-game mechanic for D3.. If you want a quote, I can find it, but THAT got me jacked up.. They have more ideas they're working on outside of Inferno for end game!
I want EVENTS. I want fresh stuff to do. And it looks like I'm gonna get it. Blizzard and I are having a good week. No fights, brings me flowers, takes me out to nice dinners..
I remember reading/hearing something to that effect as well, though i think they said that it may not make additional end game material at release. Since from release day for a few months at least hopefully we'll all be completing the game, trying different classes, gearing up and not getting bored with just "grinding". Hopefully a content patch or two will drop within the first 3-6 months of release with some cool events.
I could also be remembering completely wrong so who knows...
Personally I don't think it will be easy to reach level 60 like you might think. Remember, each level in D3 will give you a more noticeable change in power as compared to D2 where you would have to level a few times in order to feel a significant difference. When they lowered the level cap, they also increased the time spent to level up at lower levels. Like they said, you will be about level 20 or so at the end of normal on D3, while I was at least level 20 by the end of act 2 on D2.
1- yes, 60 will be more attainable than 99. very few people actually got to 99. most stopped caring about xp at around 85, which d3 devs have said that getting to 60 (d3) should be comparable to 85 (d2).
2- I think immunities will be possible, but not standard. As in, lets say in nm/hell/inferno that Fallen are fire resistant. If a champion pack, or unique monster or whatever the equivalent is spawns with "Fire Enchanted" that could bump its resistance over 100%. But all fallen won't be fire immune by default. I think this will allow for more challenge in the gameplay rather than "oh, this area of the game, time to run through until i can damage things again."
3- I think this will happen on all difficulty increases.
4- I think Hell will be about equal, with Inferno being unprecedented. Maybe its like an entire game of Ubers or the dungeons you need to run to get the parts. (I guess that makes it precedented, shut up smartass).
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Not everyone, or maybe even most think inferno would be anything but a huge challenge but for those who think it'll be too easy I offer these bit of opinion:
Yeah I could see how people would think D2 hell is harder then D3 Inferno. What with max monsters in D2 hell being 85 to our Clvl99 and Inferno being 61+ to our Clvl60
Hmmm.
Why make a 4th difficulty if it's not even as hard as the games previous third? Ughhh.... this type of speculation makes me nerd rage from the lack of inferring power that can be displayed. Like.. really? Even on the basic level of math the thought that D2 hell would be harder then D3 inferno doesn't make sense. And lets not think of lvl 99 being anything but on par with D3 lvl 60. Level numbers are fairly arbitrary as the designer could span the xp between 1000lvls or 43 if they chose to. my two cents.
Why make a 4th difficulty if it's not even as hard as the games previous third? Ughhh.... this type of speculation makes me nerd rage from the lack of inferring power that can be displayed. Like.. really? Even on the basic level of math the thought that D2 hell would be harder then D3 inferno doesn't make sense. And lets not think of lvl 99 being anything but on par with D3 lvl 60. Level numbers are fairly arbitrary as the designer could span the xp between 1000lvls or 43 if they chose to. my two cents.
It's not entirely improbable, Diablo is a casual game, and Blizzard has said many, many times that you can play alone through all the content, you can solo the game if you want to, which means inferno won't be this impossible feat that a many are thinking.
I do believe inferno will be harder than D2 hell, but it will not be that harder.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
It's not entirely improbable, Diablo is a casual game, and Blizzard has said many, many times that you can play alone through all the content, you can solo the game if you want to, which means inferno won't be this impossible feat that a many are thinking.
I do believe inferno will be harder than D2 hell, but it will not be that harder.
Well Jay stated during one of recent Aug1st interviews that the game upholds, as he says in the interview, the game being "easy to learn and impossible to master". I've mostly heard their mantra being easy to learn and difficult to master. But semantics aside it would seem that while yes the normal mode will be easy as pie there is no reason to assume that they would add another 4th difficulty level for pure kicks. Why add it if it's only a marginal upgrade to hell? Thats dev time wasted and they have made it clear many times that time/money is certainly a major factor in what they focus on to develop for release.
It could be but given the factors that are going into it from a numbers standpoint, dev time and design philosphy I can't see that happening. Time will tell as always with this game
This makes me wonder...
How will the hell difficulty of D3 compare to the Hell difficulty of D2?
Personally I believe that D3Hell<D2Hell (D2 Hell is harder)
These are my four reasons (some of these are more or less valid than others)
1. I have the impression that reaching level 60 in D3 will be easier than reaching level 99 in D2. (I think we can all agree on that right.
Therefore leveling your character will be easier, and this will make getting to the end of Hell easier.
2. Blizzard had claimed that they would not have monsters in D3 with complete immunities to a spell type or physical damage. (only resistances)
3. I may not have played D3 Hell yet, but I remember getting to Hell with my Barbarian a couple days ago and seeing him go from being awesome (in nightmare) to barely able to kill a Zombie. (in Hell)
4. If Hell difficulty in D3 is higher than in D2, then how hard will inferno be? @.@
(essentially this would cut out many people who want to try to complete the game in at least the first 3 difficulties)
Discuss
P.S: I think inferno mode will give me nightmares.
-ZTZaorish
D2 was easy to learn, and sorta easy to master.
I think Inferno will be crazy hard. Until you start getting Inferno gear, of course ;D
d3 hell: tries your talent and insight
d2 hell: tries your patience and luck. (luck more so than in d3 anyway)
more like:
-norm: click. win
-nightmare: run around, click, mash your face on keyboard. win
-hell: bleed at your computer for sympathy. time passes. win
-inferno: Time passes. Time passes. Time passes... THIS MUST BE ENDGAME! Time passes. die, PVP!
LOL - made me think....
- normal .............(ring, ring) "Hey ma, nah I´m not busy, what´s up?"
- nightmare .............(ring, ring) Hey ma, one sec.................................................... quick, what´s up?"
- hell .............(ring, ring) Hey ma, ............... shit, I´ll call you back!!!!
- inferno .............ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring.....ring, ring......
Interesting opinions about the difficulty throughout the game.
Here are my what I hope for in terms of difficulty, (not necessarily what I expect)
Normal - This has a little challenge, but can still be fairly easy. (the easy part will probably be the first 2 or 3 acts, I am hoping that at last act 4 ramps up it just a little. Personally I would hate to beat normal and be like, wow that took absolutely no strategy at all.)
Nightmare- A significant step up, and hopefully a good challenge.
Hell - Not the Diablo 2 Hell where you get 3 shotted by the first zombie you see, but a step down from that. Still quite challenging.
Inferno - A challenge for the real men. Things probably won't insta kill you,(no potions in D3), but they will make you pay for you mistakes very quickly. That being said I hope it is ridiculously hard. I also hope that they never nerf it, if they deem the difficulty appropriate.
I agree with you EscapistFred on the immunity thing, it is somewhat ridiculous that a whole talent tree (EX: sorceress talent tree) is rendered useless against a certain monster.
I am glad you pointed out that the difficulty of D3 is more of a "skill" unlike the D2 difficulty which is more about getting the right gear.
I completely forgot to take into account the amount of skills we can use easily this time. It should be quite interesting!
- ZTZaorish
Uh... Average capped diablo 2 player (level 85) fighting monsters around the same level in hell? Let's not forget that most people were geared out in Pvp/Endgame equivilent gear (duping, baal runs, bots, etc) so the actual "content" perspective of Diablo 2 was a joke. Jay wislon also said in the interview at Gamescom that Inferno was designed to eliviate the lack there of content that existed in Diablo 2. You can't even compare the two similarities because well Diablo 3 isn't out yet and inferno isn't accessible.
Reaching 99 in Diablo 2 wasn't even viable unless you did CONSTANT BAAL/CHAOS runs all the time or farmed super unique "mini bosses" pitt runs, etc anything with high (level 87+) I believe it was? Atleast in Diablo 3 we are being almost "forced" to playthrough the entire content in order to progress, so it wont be repetitive and unnecessary grinding.
So, I really like the flat difficulty idea, because that will allow me to focus on exploring the world and benefiting from Diablo's randomization. Grinding the same areas sends me into one of those hellish, metaphysical, Cartesian "what does it all mean" phases, wherein my hollow and thoughtless actions become indistinguishable from random quantum fluctuations.
Another thing about really hard, really flat difficulty gameplay: I'm gonna be scared to walk around every single corner. THAT, friends, is Diablo 1 in a nutshell. "I don't know what's behind that door, but I know it's gonna kick my ass in the face."
I'll never, EVER forget finding the Butcher for the first time. After he 2-shot me I had to get up and walk around to get my heart rate back into a normal human operating range. That's what I want from inferno.
But let's get serious for a minute guys. Inferno is end game.. Right? That means end game is gear grinding. Fun gear grinding? Yeah, probably. Much more challenging and zone-unrestricted gear grinding? Yeh. But it's grinding folks, make no mistake. Look, I'm a grown-ass man, and I expect a bit more than kill/loot/repeat.
That's why the most exciting part of this announcement is Blizzard saying that Inferno is not the only end-game mechanic for D3.. If you want a quote, I can find it, but THAT got me jacked up.. They have more ideas they're working on outside of Inferno for end game!
I want EVENTS. I want fresh stuff to do. And it looks like I'm gonna get it. Blizzard and I are having a good week. No fights, brings me flowers, takes me out to nice dinners..
-Thomas Jefferson
But don't forget that now that we don't have to worry about attack rating, the devs can scale up the defense to compensate, and now that there are no immunities, the devs can scale up resistance. I can see D3 being easier, but there are also several reasons why I think it could be harder, so I don't know that I could really predict one or the other.
However, I would imagine that they'll deliberately make you feel useless in Hell as often as possible.
I could also be remembering completely wrong so who knows...
2- I think immunities will be possible, but not standard. As in, lets say in nm/hell/inferno that Fallen are fire resistant. If a champion pack, or unique monster or whatever the equivalent is spawns with "Fire Enchanted" that could bump its resistance over 100%. But all fallen won't be fire immune by default. I think this will allow for more challenge in the gameplay rather than "oh, this area of the game, time to run through until i can damage things again."
3- I think this will happen on all difficulty increases.
4- I think Hell will be about equal, with Inferno being unprecedented. Maybe its like an entire game of Ubers or the dungeons you need to run to get the parts. (I guess that makes it precedented, shut up smartass).
D3 inferno will be harder(2-3 times harder) than D2 hell.
Yeah I could see how people would think D2 hell is harder then D3 Inferno. What with max monsters in D2 hell being 85 to our Clvl99 and Inferno being 61+ to our Clvl60
Hmmm.
Why make a 4th difficulty if it's not even as hard as the games previous third? Ughhh.... this type of speculation makes me nerd rage from the lack of inferring power that can be displayed. Like.. really? Even on the basic level of math the thought that D2 hell would be harder then D3 inferno doesn't make sense. And lets not think of lvl 99 being anything but on par with D3 lvl 60. Level numbers are fairly arbitrary as the designer could span the xp between 1000lvls or 43 if they chose to. my two cents.
It's not entirely improbable, Diablo is a casual game, and Blizzard has said many, many times that you can play alone through all the content, you can solo the game if you want to, which means inferno won't be this impossible feat that a many are thinking.
I do believe inferno will be harder than D2 hell, but it will not be that harder.
It could be but given the factors that are going into it from a numbers standpoint, dev time and design philosphy I can't see that happening. Time will tell as always with this game